Can a .223 do that?

[Pester]

Folks,
I was at a range moving a steel target at 200yrds and a couple of leo's, getting ready to qual on rifle, were practicing. One guy kept insisting his rounds were on target with his issued mini 14 and, as proof, he was pointing to a hole clean through the 1/2 inch steel. Based on the dust I am not sure he was hitting the target.

Regardless, a standard .223 at 200 yds isnt going to punch clean through a 1/2 inch plate is it? Cant say I have ever tried but it doesn't seem possible.

I know....this is not a marksmanship question. Just did not know where to post.

 

[Steel head]

I know they'll do it at 100 with mild steel.

 

[david8989]

We would have to know the hardness of the plate and the type of .223 ammo. If he was shooting M855 steel core through mild plate then yes it would be feasable. If shooting hollow point or standard FMJ ammo against 1/2" AR500 then no he wouldn't be going through it

 

[Pester]

Given that this is more of a volunteer, low budget range I am pretty confident that its mild steel. I did not look at the ammo they were shooting but it looked like a couple of boxes of Federal Eagle 55grn fmj.

Never having tried it I guess I was thinking that 223 would struggle to get through it. Interesting to know that it gets through 1/2 at 100yrds.

If 223 can get through it then I guess a 6.5 cm with 140 would also. Does a 168 fgmm 308 get through it?

actually, I have some 1/2 cut outs sitting around in the garage. Maybe I will throw some 223, 556, 308 and 6.5cm at it this weekend and see.

Thanks gents

 

[bkw1911]

Ive noticed 223 does a lot more damage than people think to steel. its the only thing that puts dents in my ar500. We tested a 1/2" ar500 plate at 100yds with a 223, 6.5 creed, 308, 7stw, and 300wm and the 223 with just 55gr fmj left a decent dent in it while even the 7stw with a 168gr doing 3200ish hardly left a mark other than smeared copper jacket. And on un hardedned steel 223 can rip through it, ive seen that plenty of times. My local range had some cheap steal for a long time and they were all swiss cheese from a variety of calibers. The more unbelieveable thing about this story is that he claims he hit anything with a mini 14 at 200yds

 

[proneshooter]

Unless this target is the size of an 8x4 sheet of plywood, no Mini 14 is going to hit it at 200 yds

 

[Javelin]

Velocity shreds steel.

 

[Pester]

Based on the dust being kicked up I think he was missing it altogether. I did ask why the mini was standard issue and both of the guys said they thought the state procurement had a lot to do with it. Someone not wanting to spend money to arm leos, someone being lazy, someone getting a kickback, etc. They both said they would prefer something off the ar platform

BKW, thanks for the info. I will save my steel for another need. Good to know the differences.

 

[woojos]

A lot of departments go with the mini 14 over ARs due to people's perception of the AR as an 'assault' weapon over the more traditional look of the mini 14.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Unless it was a big plate or mini with fairy dust sprinkled on it, I doubt he was hitting very often or at all... From a former owner of two mini's, I didnt learn my lesson with the first one

 

[Pester]

Didnt think about that earlier but living in CA I can see how that is the case.

A lot of departments go with the mini 14 over ARs due to people's perception of the AR as an 'assault' weapon over the more traditional look of the mini 14.

 

[Pester]

Unless it was a big plate or mini with fairy dust sprinkled on it, I doubt he was hitting very often or at all... From a former owner of two mini's, I didnt learn my lesson with the first one

Thats some funny stuff right there brother..... Thanks for starting my weekend off with a chuckle.

 

[spot69221]

High velocity 55's can smooth through a mild steel. 150yds most of the time and 200yds still possible. Mini 14's...what everybody else said.

 

[*Nine]

You used the term "rounds" which leads me to assume you saw the guy shoot multiple rounds at this steel. If there was only a single hole that he pointed to as proof that he was hitting the plate then I think the obvious answer, regardless of 223's ability to penetrate mild steel, was that he was missing the plate entirely. The only other possibility is that he was stacking round after round into the same hole... at 200 yards... with a Mini14.

 

[Bender]

I have a .25 MOA mini-14 at 200 yds........said no one ever.

 

[damoncali]

I'm more inlined to believe a .223 punching through 1/2" of steel than a mini 14 hitting anything at 200 yards.

Seriously, though, I've seen soft point .223 go through 3/8" steel at 50 yards, so it doesn't seem crazy that FMJ would do it at 200. It would have to be soft steel, though.

 

[bkw1911]

I call for a thread title change vote. "Can a mini 14 hit a piece of steel at 200yds?" Cast your votes

 

[shovelstrokeed]

How to make a Mini-14 or an AK group at 200 yards?














Load a magazine, assume port arms position.






Run forward 175 yards, drop to the prone and commence firing.

 

[SABuzzard]

Speed kills steel. I've seen 22-250 rounds punch through 3/8" AR500 at 100 yards. These same plates had taken thousands of rounds from "more powerful" calibers with hardly a scratch.

 

[tnichols]

I call for a thread title change vote. "Can a mini 14 hit a piece of steel at 200yds?" Cast your votes

Not with any degree of certainty.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

As has been said, the velocity of a 55gr 223 round really tears up the steel, especially if it is steel core. It very well likely was him missing though if the group was rather tight coming out of a mini-14

 

[graewolf]

OK so the consensus on mini 14s is clear. Had the same typical experience years ago and sold mine. What makes them so inherently inaccurate? Is it just the barrel? the action? combination of both? Can a good barrel on it shoot well? It's a cool little rifle but after 20+ years (since I owned mine and found that out) it hasn't gotten any better?

Sorry, a little of topic.....

 

[Petrichor Actual]

I almost bought one a year ago for my dad. He wanted a semi 223 so we could share ammo, but like many older guys I know he wasn't a fan of AR15's. The mini 14 seemed like an obvious choice. I'm glad I did my research before buying. You won't find a kind word about its accuracy potential. I wish it wasn't so. I like their classic look and ergos.

 

[b yond]

Didn't they make some changes to the mini 14 a few years ago to improve accuracy?

I've been told several times on other forums that xxx gun can't possibly pull off xxx shot. So far I don't think any of those statements have been completely accurate.

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[Kinsman]

I've owned two Mini-14's, and either one would hold 1/2 MOA .....If I did my part.
I guess I was having a bad day when I shot them.

I shot less that 20 rounds from the pair, and sold them.

 

[Bender]

I've owned two Mini-14's, and either one would hold 1/2 MOA .....If I did my part.
I guess I was having a bad day when I shot them.

I shot less that 20 rounds from the pair, and sold them.

It's only ankle deep if you are in head first.

 

[Pinecone]

What makes them so inherently inaccurate? Is it just the barrel? the action? combination of both? Can a good barrel on it shoot well? It's a cool little rifle but after 20+ years (since I owned mine and found that out) it hasn't gotten any better?

Barrel mainly. The thin barrel has a lot of whip.

There are a couple of add on systems that claim to enhance accuracy.

The Original Barrel Strut for Mini-14s

Sturm Ruger Company® Certified Mini Harmonic Barrel Stabilizer Integrated Adjustable Gas Block

Here you can geta guarnteeed sub-1MOA Mini 14 - Ruger Mini 14 30 Rifles Barrel Conversions New Rifle Packages Accuracy Systems

Latest factory Mini 14s have a heavier barrel.

At an unspecified time in 2007 to 2008, Ruger added a heavier tapered barrel to the Mini series. The heavier barrel had an overall larger diameter with the barrel visibly becoming thicker in the final inches as the barrel approaches the gas block from the muzzle. These changes combined with tighter tolerances result in greater potential accuracy.[4] The new mini-14 rifles are arguably capable of shooting under 2 MOA (Minute of angle) accuracy. The "target model" Mini-14 supposedly can shoot under 1 MOA.

 

[atomic41]

Just recently I tried shooting at 1/2" mild steel at 100yds with .223. It went through like butter. I wasn't expecting that.

 

[damoncali]

I suspect it's more complicated than just the barrel, and probably has to do with the way it's attached to the front gas block part (whatever it's called), and therefore the stock. It seems like the vibrations are just about perfectly wrong. That would make sense given the monsterous barrel weight added to the new "target" model, which I would imagine is a way to undo that unfortunate circumstance... I've always wondered what one would do if you chopped the barrel right after the gas port.

 

[Pinecone]

I suspect it's more complicated than just the barrel, and probably has to do with the way it's attached to the front gas block part (whatever it's called), and therefore the stock. It seems like the vibrations are just about perfectly wrong. That would make sense given the monsterous barrel weight added to the new "target" model, which I would imagine is a way to undo that unfortunate circumstance... I've always wondered what one would do if you chopped the barrel right after the gas port.

I see what you are saying, but that one link shows they seem to get good results with just a heavier barrel. And even if you just make the part under the handguard heavier, it seems to help.

 

[40xs]

If he was shooting at 200yds. he was probably missing the target. I owned a mini 14 for about 2 months,,,got rid of it. most of my handguns would outshoot that gun at 100yds. sad, sad, sad. If it was law enforcement it had to be low budget. No way an accurate shot could be taken with that gun unless they have made stark improvements in the last few years.

 

[bkw1911]

Just as an update at a precision match Saturday we were shooting a swinger @ 200yds that was 3/4" thick and it was assumed rated for a rifle (it wasn't, I think someone grabbed it from the 3gun stuff for a shotgun or pistol). It made it to me the 23rd shooter and I had perfect hits on it at the right timing and I was thinking it was strange that it took 8 hits with my 6.5 creed to flip it (I've got a closeup vid of rds 4-7 passing through and barely moving the steel). We were all still oblivious to the holes since it had been swinging. Then my buddy with a 19" 6.5x47 shooting 123s at less than 2800fps fires 3rds and the steel doesn't move and all we see is a massive golfball size hole through the center. So, non ar500 steel can definitely have holes punched through it even by slow rounds at 200yds. Surprisingly I think everyone that day for some reason was shooting a 6.5 or 308. Had there been any 6mms shooting at 3100fps+ we'd of noticed holes a lot sooner.

 

[loic]

Once, a while back, I was playing with my 22-250 and some 3/8 thick mild steel. The 22-250 is a bit faster than the 223 (I chrono some winchester super x around 3800 fps...) I jad different type/brand of ammo, all 55 gr bullets, hollow point, soft point, vmax. All of them went right thru the plate at a little less than 100 yards. I also had my 30-30 and my .35 rem and both made a large dent to the plate. I need to find the pic of the plate. It was fun to try and see.

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[banditbump]

Could be wrong but I believe the u.s. military moved to the 22 caliber bullets in the 50s because the 220 swift could out pent rate steel compared to the 338 and 30-06.......that's when they created the 223 and 2222 mag to compete for the contract.

 

[loic]

I found the pic, again thats mild steel, 3/8 thick , the "craters" were fone with my 30-30 and my .35 remington.

this is the back of the plate

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[delv7915]

All I can say is Wow! How did we start there and end here.... O thats right.

 

[pineoak]

agree that speed kills steel, green tip 5.56 will zip right through mild steel


I recall a time my friend brought his mini-14 to a carbine class... it didn't make it to lunch before it stopped working and he had to borrow my backup AR15

 

[z7.jled]

I know a mosin nagant will punch through 1 1/2" mild steel at 100 yds. . . Golf ball sized hole. I also know that it will not go all the way through 2" thick mild steel at 100 yds but it will return your bullet and some of the steel free of charge. Things you do in high school. . .

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