Can anyone ever touch your gun?

C

Coloradocop

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 17, 2010
164
1
45
Front Range of Colorado
#1
Do you ever allow anyone else to handle your guns? If so, does this apply to any of your guns, or only specific guns? Will you ever allow anyone other than yourself to shoot one (or all) of your guns? How about the circumstances under which someone is allowed to handle your guns?

This is a philosophical question, and one that I was hoping all of you could weigh in on to help settle a debate we're having among a couple of us in my agency.


Here's the back story:

One of my friends is a former military sniper and a 25+ year LEO (he's a good bit older than I am, and served his military time in the early 80's). Anyway, we were talking guns the other day, after I brought in my new AI to show him, and the subject turned to gun philosophy. His philosophy is that, as a warrior, no one should ever get to handle your guns except you (and your spotter if you're working as a sniper team). He was saying how he wouldn't have let anyone finger-fondle the new Accuracy International if he was in my shoes, and felt that this philosophy was the prevailing opinion among military (and police) snipers.

On the other hand, for my part of it, I'm usually willing to let other people handle (or even shoot) most of my guns. In the past I've had the opportunity to shoot some pretty interesting guns owned by others who were kind enough to let me fire a few shots, and I usually try to pay it forward with that courtesy myself. But, to a certain extent I can see what he's saying when it comes to duty weapons. For me, it's something like this:

1) If you're cool with me you can handle my guns in my presence, but you better not be messing with my sights or optics (unless appropriate under the circumstances).
2) You'll probably be welcome to shoot my guns at the range, but only under my supervision.
3) You won't be allowed to take my guns out without me, though I've occasionally loaned a gun to a buddy while out hunting, etc.
4) I'm more relaxed with my gun "toys" than I am with the guns upon which my life depends.


So, where do you guys stand on this issue?
 
#3
Coloradocop said:
His philosophy is that, as a warrior, no one should ever get to handle your guns except you (and your spotter if you're working as a sniper team).
Click to expand...

I'm not a warrior, so I can't evaluate the value of that particular philosophy.

As a civilian, hobbyist, and advocate of the shooting sports, anyone with a basic understanding of firearms safety is welcome to handle and fire my guns. I'd prefer that no one finger-fucks the optics adjustments and what-not, but if I have a clue about my rifle, then I'd better be able to figure out if that has occurred before I fire my next shot.
 
#4
IF i feel comfortable with your safety habits i will lend almost anything that i shoot on a regular basis. on the other hand i do not like to shoot other peoples firearms. sorta strange? too each his own.
 
#5
I will lend my guns, my Harley, my boats, cars/trucks, anything I own to any of my friends that I trust to replace or repair anything they mess up. My friends are more important to me than any material items. I have TONS of ammo and they are also welcome to any of it, they can pay for it or they can have it. A true FREIND won't take advantage of you and it goes without saying that if they mess something up, it gets replaced or returned in BETTER shape than they got it.
That said, if I were a police or military sniper, I would NOT allow anyone to touch that 1 particular weapon.
 
#6
I agree with you 100%. I would not walk up and down the firing line looking for people but if someone expressed interest and seemed legit, I would and have be happy to let them try it. Makes for a nice day at the range. Now, if it was a firearm I used for work and someone's life depended on it (your friend as an example) I might not feel the same way.
 
#7
I'm not all that stiff necked over whether someone else touches my firearm but they best not do so without my permission.

For the person I KNOW has the proper knowledge and respect for not just firearms but other peoples property as well, I might let them touch/handle/fire one of my firearms but only in my presence and with my ammo.

As a general rule I shoot with people that prefer to shoot with their own weapons and only look at others.
 
#8
Not being either a warrior or an LEO, I do allow handling and even shooting of my fire-arms with my prior consent, in my presence, under my supervision. There are a few people whom I would allow to borrow certain fire-arms under certain conditions.
I am quite certain that I would NEVER allow ANYONE to handle ANY of my Service Weapons if I were either a warrior or LEO.
 
#9
Warrior LOL wtf did he do than with his issued rifle adopt it and brought it home to sleep with?

Its a fucking piece of metal a tool with many like it and while a particular one might be yours getting personal with piece of metal/plastics/wood is silly. But hey you wanna start some warrior cult be my guest i think everyone is free to worship whatever they choose...

Some people like to go to extremes and while it's beneficial to really know your tools worshiping them is pathetic at best as the magic is in act not in objects. This is very apparent if you check out the amount of gizmos and entire industry which developed around a simple act called shooting at something. Most of it because subjects performing an act are lacking in personal dedication, training and effort and compensate with either better equipment or accessories that aid in the act. Not to mention the amount of safe queens out there serving no other purpose but collecting dust.
 
#10
Real warriors know that the true weapon is between their ears, not what they're holding in their hands. Sorry, I don't buy what he's selling, and yeah, I served.
 
#11
drafter said:
I will lend my guns, my Harley, my boats, cars/trucks, anything I own to any of my friends that I trust to replace or repair anything they mess up. My friends are more important to me than any material items. I have TONS of ammo and they are also welcome to any of it, they can pay for it or they can have it. A true FREIND won't take advantage of you and it goes without saying that if they mess something up, it gets replaced or returned in BETTER shape than they got it.
That said, if I were a police or military sniper, I would NOT allow anyone to touch that 1 particular weapon.
Click to expand...

This is about how I feel about it, however, I have a couple guns my dad gave me that do not get loaned out. Too much sentimental value to see them damaged.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2
 
#12
I don't have a problem letting someone who seems responsible shoot my guns, it helps people figure out what they want and gets some people into the sport. I let a friend borrow my 1100 special field 20 gauge for about 5 years so his boys could deer hunt with it. My brother in law won't let anyone shoot his guns, he said some stuff you just don't share and he made the comment about how I might as well sleep with his wife.
 
#13
I may hand my rifle to you but don't ever touch it without my permission. I've always thought it a mortal sin to touch somebody else's rifle or pistol without their permission. First of all, the owner is responsible for whatever happens involving that piece of metal. Second, if they drop it or damage it in some other way, I'm going to be the one paying the repair bill. However, having said that, I have, in the past, allowed other folks to shoot my rifles.

Some folks on here treat their pets like they're family members. I don't. Now one of my rifles - well, that's a different story.
 
#14
In eastern philosophy your friend is perfectly right , your items carry and are loaded with your energy and this is the reason your weapons become extension of the warrior , no one but weapon owner must handle the weapon otherwise the weapon will have ..mix energy, also exist a ritual used to "load" the item/weapon with your energy and to purify the weapon from previous energies loaded from people who touched the weapon before.
You guys here are ..western culture and I don't expect to fully understand or agree with what I wrote above ....
I personally let anyone interested to handle and shoot my weapons, all except one specific rifle I use for hunting.

Sent from my GT-i9100 using Tapatalk
 
#15
I REGULARLY take people to the range that have never used a firearm before, I teach them the safe handling and proper use of firearms. I have two roommates, one has guns, the other (my girlfriend) loves to shoot with us. We go to the range all the time. I believe that people are disgustingly undereducated when it comes to firearms, that is, they let the media (mainly movies) teach them what they know about firearms. I try and do everything in my power to educate the public that firearms aren't going to kill people just because they are owned.

That being said, every single person who has used my firearms respects them. Why? Because I teach them that. They have all handled all of my firearms under my supervision, but will not just come into my house and handle them. Thats the beauty. To me - firing the guns can be a very social thing, but my friends won't just come over to "play" with them. If they want to do dry runs, I'll put them through but never will they just start playing with them when I'm not around.

The thing is - guns are tough. They are meant to be shot. I'm not spending 500 on a shotgun to have it "guard" my suits in my closet. I bought the gun to have fun at then range and hunt with. Furthermore, I maintain my guns, and the people who shoot them with me also maintain them.

So yes, I let other people touch and use my guns but its with my consent. If somebody just came over and started manhandling them, as with anything else, I'll get upset. But there is now way that someone is going to break one of my guns by cycling through the action - if it did, then you have to think how dangerous that'd be on the range.
 
#17
I have buddy's I shoot with that I would give the combo to my safe and give them full access to every gun in there. I think I have shot all of theirs as well.

Also have the buddy's I wouldn't invite to the range tho
 
#19
Only person i would lend my guns to are my father and my brother. both of whom i have shot plenty with and know they would take care of my guns.

I will let other people shoot my guns if i know them. Sorry but joe strange who walks up, you arent shooting my gun. That doesnt apply if i have been talking to the person. Ive traded shots with a few people after talking to them about our respective firearms.

I will let joe strange inspect the gun and look through the optic, handle the gun under my supervision. Heck i dont mind that at all. Its a good way to see if you like an optic or stock or whatever.


What annoys me (and its probably just me) is often ill be talking with my dad waiting for the line ot go cold and some older itme (usually) just walks up and sticks his face right next to my gun and starts inspecting it. Usually ill say can i help you, they say no and just walk away. Rude to me to do that to someone. Im right there, ask me to see my gun up close
 
#20
To each their own I guess. I knows guys like that though. That being said in the four tours I did in Iraq I would have everyone in my scout platoons shoot through our various SWS’s just in case the original guy got wounded or killed and they had to use them.
I kind of chuckle at this warrior philosophy. In my experience since I have retired from the Army (2010) and work as a sniper/sdm/reconnaissance trainer all the ODA's, Marine SS platoon, Army sniper section, and EOD has let foreign nationals, other service members and myself run through their precision platforms. One night shoot i had a friend who was a 13F accompany me just to see what i do and they handed him a M2010 and five boxes of ammo and told him to give it a try. earlier in the day he and several others cut their teeth on long range shooting with a MK13 mod5, they never batted an eye at letting people get behind them and shoot.

As for personal stuff, if i fought with you, whats mine is yours as long as you repair what you break. i can shoot to 300yds in my back yard so when family or friends come over i let them shoot whatever they want in the safe as long as i have ammo for it. For people on the range, i usually let them pull the trigger if they ask. as others have said that's how you build on the sport but it also changes the stigma towards gun types.
 
#21
TRAC said:
In eastern philosophy your friend is perfectly right , your items carry and are loaded with your energy and this is the reason your weapons become extension of the warrior , no one but weapon owner must handle the weapon otherwise the weapon will have ..mix energy, also exist a ritual used to "load" the item/weapon with your energy and to purify the weapon from previous energies loaded from people who touched the weapon before.
You guys here are ..western culture and I don't expect to fully understand or agree with what I wrote above ....
I personally let anyone interested to handle and shoot my weapons, all except one specific rifle I use for hunting.

Sent from my GT-i9100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Ahhh, your point about eastern philosophy is VERY relevant to our debate, I believe. My friend doesn't do a lot of serious shooting these days, but is very involved in martial arts, and the art of Japanese sword making. I believe that interest/lifestyle may be a major influence on his philosophy on this subject. In fact, his way of explaining the philosophy he holds sounds pretty similar to what you said.

Also, from my personal perspective, I'd agree with some other posts I read here as well: I'm not against letting people handle my guns, but I'd be pissed if someone did so without my consent (save for a couple of people who are really close friends/family, etc). I also believe that shooting sports risk extinction (or politically-mandated extinction) if we don't work hard to ensure that new people are becoming involved in these activities. That's one of my primary motivations for getting people behind my rifles!
 
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#22
Coloradocop said:
Ahhh, your point about eastern philosophy is VERY relevant to our debate, I believe. My friend doesn't do a lot of serious shooting these days, but is very involved in martial arts, and the art of Japanese sword making. I believe that interest/lifestyle may be a major influence on his philosophy on this subject. In fact, his way of explaining the philosophy he holds sounds pretty similar to what you said.

Also, from my personal perspective, I'd agree with some other posts I read here as well: I'm not against letting people handle my guns, but I'd be pissed if someone did so without my consent (save for a couple of people who are really close friends/family, etc). I also believe that shooting sports risk extinction (or politically-mandated extinction) if we don't work hard to ensure that new people are becoming involved in these activities. That's one of my primary motivations for getting people behind my rifles!
Click to expand...

What I see less and less of is an idea of stewardship. More and more, people look at weapons as separate and distinct from the owner and divorce themselves for responsibility for any misuse by unauthorized others. I feel that once it's yours, it's yours, which means to me that it stays locked up if it isn't out for use or maintenance. I read so many threads in which people complain about the cost of a gun safe and equate it to the cost of a middling factory-produced 1911, as if they're entitled to that 1911 without a blissful thought about safeguarding it while their back is turned. They aren't flat screen TVs from Best Buy to be replaced when the payout from the homeowner's policy arrives.
 
#23
I'm guessing the philosophy is that you don't want others messing with your BZO or your zero or risking some other kind of damage? Makes sense if you're on the range trying to qual or deployed and need to rely on it to save your life...just on the range here in the US...nahhhh. Life's too short to get hung up on material things. If they are respectful and careful and show some interest...I say let em explore and/or shoot it.
 
#24
I pretty much agree with you Coloradocop. However, I would probably be protective of my personal defense weapons. I know I get nervous if someone fiddles with a gun I'm going to use for a match.

Regarding reloaded ammunition - I won't allow my reloaded ammo to be fired in anyone elses gun, and I won't fire any other reloaded ammo in mine.
 
#25
To the OP... ask your friend this... "You're fine with allowing friends into your house which is every man's castle but you won't let them hold a tool?"
 
#26
I don't have a problem if I'm asked first.

As to the warrior culture, I never had a problem with it then. Probably less so than as a civilian because A. when downrange you're with your brothers that you trust with you life already. B. If you're in garrison you turn your weapon into the armor who does god-knows-what to it. C. "My" M-16A1/2 was never really "mine."
 
#27
I have different tools for different jobs.

If it's a work firearm, I have no problem with someone shooting it in my presence. That way I can supervise how it's handled and verify that the zero is correct before putting it up. I don't loan those out, because I need them for work.

If it's a play gun, then I am less concerned. My stuff it generally pretty durable. Re-zeroing is fast so that isn't a concern. I only loan guns to VERY close friends that I feel respect me and my gear. If they break it, I am sure they will make it right. If it takes a little while to fix it, then it's no big deal because I have others.

I routinely offer to supply a rifle for a new shooter who wants to come shoot our local matches. I feel it's my responsibility to help grow our sport.

Coloradocop said:
He was saying how he wouldn't have let anyone finger-fondle the new Accuracy International if he was in my shoes, and felt that this philosophy was the prevailing opinion among military (and police) snipers.
Click to expand...

In my experience this is bullshit. In the field or on the job, you don't let people touch your stuff because you need it to work 100%. However I can't tell you how often someone else has been on my rifle in demos or training. I have yet to have a bad experience. Sometimes you have to set limits when there are kids around (like don't pick it up). But overall I have seen that people are incredibly respectful when you let them look at your rifle.

If you want to help our sport, then your goal should be to let as many people as practical experience it. That doesn't mean always sacrificing your practice time and ammo. However, if you can let someone get on the gun and fire a couple shots you may plant the seeds that will grow into a life-long love.
 
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#28
LoneWolfUSMC said:
I have different tools for different jobs.

If it's a work firearm, I have no problem with someone shooting it in my presence. That way I can supervise how it's handled and verify that the zero is correct before putting it up. I don't loan those out, because I need them for work.

If it's a play gun, then I am less concerned. My stuff it generally pretty durable. Re-zeroing is fast so that isn't a concern. I only loan guns to VERY close friends that I feel respect me and my gear. If they break it, I am sure they will make it right. If it takes a little while to fix it, then it's no big deal because I have others.

I routinely offer to supply a rifle for a new shooter who wants to come shoot our local matches. I feel it's my responsibility to help grow our sport.
Click to expand...

But John... Aren't you a warrior? Lol...
 
#29
Im not a warrior or Leo either but I've grown up with a great amount of respect for others and their belongings in general. Don't touch my firearms without my permission. In the same right don't touch my car or tv remote without my permission either. Its just a respect issue to me.
 
#30
Holy shit people... read the OP. He wasn't inferring "Without permission" or even "lending out". He meant letting anyone touch them period.
 
#31
The op asked where we stand on the issue. He did not ask a yes or no question. I believe my answer still stands as an accurate representation of where I stand on the issue.
 
#33
That sounds kind of silly and superstitious to me. As long as I'm confident that someone can safely handle the firearm in the given instance whether that be outside of a range environment after I've verified that the firearm is clear and there is no ammunition nearby or at the range after I've explained what you need to do to be safe I'd let, and usually encourage others to touch, handle and shoot my guns.

Sounds like someone never learned to share.
 
#34
I don't mind people touching my rifles as long as I am right there with them and they ask first. I will generally let people shoot them at the range as many of the people that inquire about a specific rifle may have a limited opportunity to ever have the chance of shooting one; however, I do get pissed if I am down range setting a target and I look back on the line and see people touching anything I have in the rack. I guess that is why I now leave everything cased that is not being used at a specific time. While I do let people shoot a round or two, some people want to sit there behind the larger calibers an "overstay their welcome" so to speak and burn through 40 or 50 dollars of ammo. I don't mind a shot or two but lets not get crazy....JMHO
 
#35
Op's 1-3 sounds good to me, I have no #4 guns.

Don't want to hijack, but think this is hypo is on topic:

At the range, guns are in a rack, another guy (I don't know him) puts his gun next to mine, which gets tangled in my sling. I can't get my gun out without touching his. Other guy is nowhere in sight. I am packing up to leave.

Some have mentioned its is an no-go to touch someone elses gun without permission. Would the above hypo change this?

Do you wait till he gets back? Or do you untangle the two guns and go on your way? Ask the rangemaster for assistance? What do you guys think is reasonable?
 
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#36
I agree with 1,2,3,4 I have no problem introducing people to the sport. but my guns never leave my sight.

Coloradocop said:
Do you ever allow anyone else to handle your guns? If so, does this apply to any of your guns, or only specific guns? Will you ever allow anyone other than yourself to shoot one (or all) of your guns? How about the circumstances under which someone is allowed to handle your guns?

This is a philosophical question, and one that I was hoping all of you could weigh in on to help settle a debate we're having among a couple of us in my agency.


Here's the back story:

One of my friends is a former military sniper and a 25+ year LEO (he's a good bit older than I am, and served his military time in the early 80's). Anyway, we were talking guns the other day, after I brought in my new AI to show him, and the subject turned to gun philosophy. His philosophy is that, as a warrior, no one should ever get to handle your guns except you (and your spotter if you're working as a sniper team). He was saying how he wouldn't have let anyone finger-fondle the new Accuracy International if he was in my shoes, and felt that this philosophy was the prevailing opinion among military (and police) snipers.

On the other hand, for my part of it, I'm usually willing to let other people handle (or even shoot) most of my guns. In the past I've had the opportunity to shoot some pretty interesting guns owned by others who were kind enough to let me fire a few shots, and I usually try to pay it forward with that courtesy myself. But, to a certain extent I can see what he's saying when it comes to duty weapons. For me, it's something like this:

1) If you're cool with me you can handle my guns in my presence, but you better not be messing with my sights or optics (unless appropriate under the circumstances).
2) You'll probably be welcome to shoot my guns at the range, but only under my supervision.
3) You won't be allowed to take my guns out without me, though I've occasionally loaned a gun to a buddy while out hunting, etc.
4) I'm more relaxed with my gun "toys" than I am with the guns upon which my life depends.


So, where do you guys stand on this issue?
Click to expand...
 
#40
There is a group of us from work that go shooting often. When I am present and the individual isn't a dumb fuck safety-wise, they are free to shoot my weapons provided that they use only brass cased, non corrosive ammo. I usually let them shoot the ammo I brought. They may also shoot my precision rifles provided that they use only match grade ammo and they don't fuck with my scope. As far as people borrowing my guns, I can count on one hand how many people I would let do that. People generally don't respect your property and I have either not gotten back borrowed out items or gotten back damaged items that people never replaced or paid to fix. I damn sure ain't going to take that risk with my high dollar firearms.
 
#41
This is my rifle,
This is my gun,
One is for fighting,
One is for fun.


No one touches my gun. :)

I don't have tons of money so my range firearms are my personal defense firearms. In my presence, people can handle and shoot them. I am not so firm as the OP's friend but I am still strict. In the military, they handed out a number of our weapons to another unit to o zero and qualify our weapons without letting us know. It screwed up a number of us when we went to qualify. I remembered that lesson.
 
#43
Just something to keep in mind, fellas, make absolutely certain that your friend is more concerned about safety than you are. A buddy of mine wanted to handle a shotgun that I keep loaded for home invasions. I was broken into and robbed thrice in 2013 so several of my firearms stay loaded. I warned him that it's loaded before he touched it, and he's always been very safe and keeps loaded firearms in his own home, but this time he just wasn't concentrating and I'm still picking birdshot outta my walls.

Lesson learned the hard way but he was someone I trusted that has plenty of experience. I no longer shoot with that individual and don't allow handling of my firearms in my home. You wanna feel em up like a French hooker on nickel night? Come to the range where you can't pepper my drywall.

Point is, no matter how experienced your friend is, how long you've known em or how much you trust em, please be careful because we are still human the best humans still make mistakes.
 
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#44
This needs to be turned in to a poll and then have people answer as they go along.

My stance is the same as the OPs. Ill have been lent a rifle to shoot a match with and i would only lend my rifle to a select couple of friends under extreme conditions.
 
#45
Sounds like your friend is taking his sword building philosophy and using it for firearms. That is a HUGE thing with traditional Samurai. You build your own katana, and that is your life. it is a huge disgrace for anyone else to handle it.

But, we're not in 7th century Iga Japan either so I have no problem with people using my firearms as long as I have a comfortable enough feel around them then I'm all for it. That's how people learn, and I've had the privilege to fire some pretty nice weapons that didn't belong to me that I might not have had if the owner didn't allow me to.
 
#46
Swift said:
Just something to keep in mind, fellas, make absolutely certain that your friend is more concerned about safety than you are. A buddy of mine wanted to handle a shotgun that I keep loaded for home invasions. I was broken into and robbed thrice in 2013 so several of my firearms stay loaded. I warned him that it's loaded before he touched it, and he's always been very safe and keeps loaded firearms in his own home, but this time he just wasn't concentrating and I'm still picking birdshot outta my walls.

Lesson learned the hard way but he was someone I trusted that has plenty of experience. I no longer shoot with that individual and don't allow handling of my firearms in my home. You wanna feel em up like a French hooker on nickel night? Come to the range where you can't pepper my drywall.

Point is, no matter how experienced your friend is, how long you've known em or how much you trust em, please be careful because we are still human the best humans still make mistakes.
Click to expand...

So you essentially allowed him to hand himself a loaded firearm and it's all his fault? Just saying...
 
#47
_Broke_ said:
So you essentially allowed him to hand himself a loaded firearm and it's all his fault? Just saying...
Click to expand...

No, I'm taking responsibility for being negligent. It was a lesson learned for me and an experience I wanted to keep anyone else from having. This is an appropriate time to remind people that you cannot let your guard down and ignore safety just because you're not on the firing line. It's just a friendly reminder and safety can never be emphasized enough. Not telling anyone what to do here were all adults but it bears mention is all.

As far as not shooting with that individual or allowing my firearms to be handled in my home...Well the best way to avoid repeating a mistake is to remove the components from the equation that got you there in the first place.
 
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#48
I have no problem showing others my firearms...after *I* confirm they are unloaded by dropping mags and checking chambers. I'm also a huge stickler for muzzle discipline.

I have no problem letting others shoot my firearms...provided I am the one giving them instruction, or I've seen them shoot enough that I'm confident about a lack of stupidity. Along those lines, I want to publicly thank the folks that go to the Rockcastle shoots that have let me finger bang their rifles, and even send a few rounds downrange.

I have no problem loaning others my firearms...if they are immediate family or close friends that I implicitly trust and know they accept responsibility for it as if it was their own.



I wish I had pictures from a pig roast my parents had on their farm a few months back; I let a half-dozen kids ages 7-16 shoot my Glock with 22LR conversion and suppressor, and an AR with CMMG conversion bolt. They each got a lesson on firearms safety before shooting, and the grin on their faces when they hit the steel plate at 15 yards the first time they ever fired a gun was PRICELESS.
 
#49
There was fellow that frequented the same range as me. He has passed on, so I am not rampling his grave, just illustrating the topic of the thread.

He was an odd duck. Drove a big sedan and the trunk had SEVERAL 5 gal buckets of range brass. He picked up everything that that had a primer hole. He was eccentric by middle Tennessee standards and said he had been a camera man for one of the big three studios. I liked talking to him, but could see where he would wear on the average country boy's nerves. Long story short, he would grope your guns while you were downrange. I did not really care for this. One day, he was Mongo'ing another gent's rifle and dropped it from the bench to the gravel. It did not go over well.

I saw just a few months ago that he had died. His obit said he had received several Emmys for his camera work, including "All In the Family".
 
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