Can it really be me?

[EddieP]

I've got a brand new howa 1500, I'm struggling to get it shooting well, it seems to be double grouping. These are handloads, bullets and cases weighed due to group wierdness.

It's sporter weight in 270, HS precision stock, torqued to 65 inch/lbs.

This is my last group of 6 rounds, bench, bipod, rear bag. 125gn VLR4 lead free. 7 power scope, which does cover thebred dot, so I'd not expect tiny groups, each of those 3 is about 1 inch, but it's about 4 inches as a 6 round group. It's random distribution, not a warming isssue.

With my heavy barrelled 308 I can routinely shoot comfortably under 0.75 moa.

I've bought some sako factory to try and will also try another scope next time.

But the question is, could the 2 groups that far apart be my shooting, I'd think no, but I'm now clutching at straws.

 

[Enjoystoshoot]

I want to follow along with this for info. Need all the help I can ever get. Really hope someone with alot of experience can answer your question.

 

[Emerson0311]

I had a Howa 300PRC that never shot consistently until I had an IBI barrel installed. The factory barrel was super skinny though.

 

[Taylorbok]

I'm assuming you've gone over the rifle and checked every fastener.
Have you set parallax?
Could be a faulty scope also.

 

[EddieP]

I'm assuming you've gone over the rifle and checked every fastener.
Have you set parallax?
Could be a faulty scope also.

Parallax fixed at 100, which is the range I'm at.
Bases / rings tightened. Bases blue locktited.

 

[Ronws]

@EddieP

What are the other similarities / differences between this rifle and your heavy barrel .308?

I am firmly in the camp that it is 99.9 percent of time the shooter. And yet it sounds like you have consistent load. But, for me, that begs the next question. What load and bullet grain weight on the other .308.

For me, the order of error from most likely to least likely is shooter, ammo, and rifle.

That being said, if you are already shooting the other rifle well, then is there a problem of concentricity from action to barrel?

 

[Taylorbok]

Actions screws? Barrels tight?
If everything is good try swapping it for a known good scope.
Also maybe try some factory ammo.
Do you have a buddy you could let shoot it?

 

[EddieP]

Actions screws? Barrels tight?
If everything is good try swapping it for a known good scope.
Also maybe try some factory ammo.

As my original post, action screws a 65. And I've got some factory ammo and another scope

 

[Taylorbok]

As my original post, action screws a 65. And I've got some factory ammo and another scope

Ya but you double checked the screws to make sure?
Change one thing at a time so you know where the problem lies

 

[hlee]

Maybe the gun just doesn’t like this bullet/powder combination. While you could say that’s two 1 moa groups, I’d just call it one 4 moa group and move on. And, shoot some of that factory ammo through it. Sometimes handloads are different but not necessarily better than factory.

 

[EddieP]

All checked

 

[Taylorbok]

All checked

I'd shoot a few rounds of factory ammo and see what happens, after that change the scope.
If nothing rectifies it you'll have to swallow your pride and ask a friend to shoot it.

 

[stanley_white]

Try factory ammo.

-Stan

 

[diverdon]

Is the barrel floating?

 

[EddieP]

Is the barrel floating?

Yes

 

[EddieP]

I'd shoot a few rounds of factory ammo and see what happens, after that change the scope.
If nothing rectifies it you'll have to swallow your pride and ask a friend to shoot it.

This is why I put it in this section.
Can suboptimal technique cause a movement of 2.5 inches at 100y?

 

[hlee]

This is why I put it in this section.
Can suboptimal technique cause a movement of 2.5 inches at 100y?

Do you have evidence that this is a 1 moa load in this gun?

 

[EddieP]

Do you have evidence that this is a 1 moa load in this gun?

No, but other loads have exibited similar and this load has these 2 groups.

I'll try factory, new scope etc.

I put the question in the marksmanship section to see if these groups could be due to me.

I don't want to keep throwing ammo and time at it pointlessly, but will do so if needed

 

[hlee]

No, but other loads have exibited similar and this load has these 2 groups.

I'll try factory, new scope etc.

I put the question in the marksmanship section to see if these groups could be due to me.

I don't want to keep throwing ammo and time at it pointlessly, but will do so if needed

Well, it could be you. A sporter weight 270 win is more difficult to shoot well than a heavy 308win or 6.5CM.

It could also be a 4 moa gun…

Unfortunately there’s no FGMM equivalent for the 270win.

 

[EddieP]

Well, it could be you. A sporter weight 270 win is more difficult to shoot well than a heavy 308win or 6.5CM.

It could also be a 4 moa gun…

Unfortunately there’s no FGMM equivalent for the 270win.

Thanks.

The FGMM comment is also an issue, it frustrates things not having a known universal round available.

If it's a 4moa gun, it's going back! I just need to prove it.

 

[Taylorbok]

This is why I put it in this section.
Can suboptimal technique cause a movement of 2.5 inches at 100y?

Yes it's definitely possible.

 

[EddieP]

Yes it's definitely possible.

In addition to my existing plans, I'm meeting up with a friend with a known good shooting rifle / ammo combo in 270, sporter weight. I'll shoot it to see if it is indeed me.
It'll either prove where the fault lies, or be highly embarrassing.

 

[EddieP]

@EddieP

What are the other similarities / differences between this rifle and your heavy barrel .308?

I am firmly in the camp that it is 99.9 percent of time the shooter. And yet it sounds like you have consistent load. But, for me, that begs the next question. What load and bullet grain weight on the other .308.

For me, the order of error from most likely to least likely is shooter, ammo, and rifle.

That being said, if you are already shooting the other rifle well, then is there a problem of concentricity from action to barrel?

My other one is a 20 inch heavy bartlein barrelled r700 in hs precision stock. 155 scenars pushed hard. Works well out to 900y, obviously higher power scope (viper 6.5-20).

 

[Ronws]

My other one is a 20 inch heavy bartlein barrelled r700 in hs precision stock. 155 scenars pushed hard. Works well out to 900y, obviously higher power scope (viper 6.5-20).

That answers a lot for me. Thin sporter barrels can be funky. Like a Tikka Superlite. You are lucky to get a third hit within 1 MOA because the gun is so light and the barrel flexes.

 

[eastexsteve]

I've got a brand new howa 1500, ..

Maybe I'm thinking too simple on this, but this statement jumped out at me. How many rounds through the gun so far? Have you cleaned it good? Have you tried other ammo? Is everything still tight on it? I've seen "new guns" do some really stupid stuff until the above issues are addressed. Then, they just miraculously start shooting like Captain Kirk's phaser rifle.

 

[eastexsteve]

If it's a 4moa gun, it's going back! I just need to prove it.

With modern manufacturing, I would guess 99% of off-the-rack bolt guns are 1 MOA with the right ammo. Plus, all rifles that I know of are test-fired at the factory. I kinda doubt you found a 4 MOA gun.

 

[DM1975]

I would try a different powder/bullet combination. One of my rifles I can get decent groups with 147 ELDm and H4350 but with 143 ELDx and H4350 the groups open up to twice the size. Also if I load for the maximum safe load on the 147’s my groups open up wide on one rifle but not so much on my other rifle. Granted 4 moa is pretty huge.

 

[308pirate]

Can suboptimal technique cause a movement of 2.5 inches at 100y?

Absolutely

 

[EddieP]

Thanks guys. I'll do some more testing including testing of myself.

 

[JerkyFreak]

Remove the bipod and shoot off a bag.

 

[DocRDS]

Easy check: Get a buddy to shoot it.

Technique is unlikely but more unlikely than a mechanical issue.

Neither is impossible.

Also check scope tightness, That stuff comes loose so easy. I assumed i couldn't shoot my Magnum. Tough to be accurate with the scope loose and I use fix-it sticks so I know I got it right. Temperature, Firings, time makes things come loose.

 

[supercorndogs]

In general when I have seen a rifle double grouping like that it has been a bedding problem. I woukd suspect bedding the action might fix that. Coukd be barrel heat moving it too.

 

[EddieP]

In general when I have seen a rifle double grouping like that it has been a bedding problem. I woukd suspect bedding the action might fix that. Coukd be barrel heat moving it too.

Definitely not heat, it wasn't 3 and 3, but randomly between the 2.

 

[EddieP]

Easy check: Get a buddy to shoot it.

Technique is unlikely but more unlikely than a mechanical issue.

Neither is impossible.

Also check scope tightness, That stuff comes loose so easy. I assumed i couldn't shoot my Magnum. Tough to be accurate with the scope loose and I use fix-it sticks so I know I got it right. Temperature, Firings, time makes things come loose.

I'm doing just that on thursday, he's bringing a known good shooting 270 for me to shoot and he's gonna shoot mine.

 

[supercorndogs]

Definitely not heat, it wasn't 3 and 3, but randomly between the 2.

I would bet on action bedding then. I have had a couple rifles like that. One stacked it's groups randomly between 3 diffrent spots imagine three decent groups at the points of a 2 moa triangle.