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Can someone explain how Fascism is...

OldSalty

Just salty.
Minuteman
Nov 1, 2019
1,798
2,792
...a "far right" ideology? And explain in "simplish" terms to the ignorant (me). Or point to some good reading?

Granted this is from wiki:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

I am no expert on this topic by any means. But what strikes me as interesting is the use of the word "ultranationalism" and "forceable supression".

Seems to me that either left OR right at far ends of the spectrum could be considered fascist. The ultranationalism part is also interesting...
 
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76602124_2847369775281199_2265224421163663360_o.jpg
 
...another point.

How are ultranationalists really any different than ultraglobalists?

Its "religious" alignment to an ideology to the point you exert said ideology on the population by force.

Any means necessary...right?

The end justifies the means?

Leftist mottos with obvious fascist undertones (going literally by definition).
 
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Jingoism is really worse than ultranationalism imo. I'm staunchly chauvinist because I believe the foundation of the real world is that of struggle and conquest. The danger is in thinking that your country can do no wrong, or that it's above criticism from both within and outside. I love America, but at the end of the day I'd fuck over the entire rest of the world just to put a dollar in a single American's pocket if that's what it came down to. "Fuck you" and "us first" are the only two foreign phrases I know. I don't think such is necessary at the moment, but I have benefitted from USA's socio-economic conquests the globe over and can't outright denounce it.

For me, it goes family, state, country. In that order, and I make it a point to be ESPECIALLY critical of my own family's, state's, and country's actions. On the other side of the coin, the world is a fucked up place and I'd prefer it be us who's doing the fucking. To suspend all criticism is jingoism, and it's the addictive component within tyranny and corruption in today's societies.
 
I prefer a definition over someone's "opinion" on how it's done.

1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
 
...a "far right" ideology? And explain in "simplish" terms to the ignorant (me). Or point to some good reading?

Granted this is from wiki:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

I am no expert on this topic by any means. But what strikes me as interesting is the use of the word "ultranationalism" and "forceable supression".

Seems to me that either left OR right at far ends of the spectrum could be considered fascist. The ultranationalism part is also interesting...

Your number one problem here is relying on Wikipedia as a source for definitions. Wikipedia is now completely unreliable for anything where there is a vested political or financial interest in the topic your researching. You might as well just ask Fredo from CNN or that whoring Democrat that runs Snopes.

In terms of reading "The Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek would be a good start. PS he debunks the idea rather than confirms the notion that Fascism is "Far Right". But in my own opinion I don't think terms of Right and Left are very good for describing modern political ideologies and their differences.
 
"Fascist states take over schools and other parts of civil society in order to promote nationalism and propaganda. ... The first fascist government was run by Benito Mussolini in Italy from 1922 until 1943. The governments of Engelbert Dollfuss in Austria and Adolf Hitler in Germany are also iconic examples of fascism. "

Read about Mussolini. I think when people call someone a "Fascist" this is the standard. I'm sure currently there are lots of folks who can convolute it but basically this is the definition.

VooDoo
 
Facism is not "far right" at all. It is just another form or flavor of socialism, just with a nationalist component as opposed to communism which is internationalist socialism.

When people think of facism, the prime example that comes to mind is Nazism. The word Nazi is derived from the acronym for Nationalist Socialist. I believe the formal party name was Nationalist Socialist Workers Party.

They are all just different shades of red.
 
I prefer a definition over someone's "opinion" on how it's done.

1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

This definition isnt that much different than I posted above. Nation and often race above the individual.

But lets expand...

The left views race as a collective and certainly above the individual.

Substitute "nation" with "global _____ (fill in the blank)".

Social and economic regimentation, also squarely within the far left.

Forceable supression, check.
 
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Your number one problem here is relying on Wikipedia as a source for definitions. Wikipedia is now completely unreliable for anything where there is a vested political or financial interest in the topic your researching. You might as well just ask Fredo from CNN or that whoring Democrat that runs Snopes.

In terms of reading "The Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek would be a good start. PS he debunks the idea rather than confirms the notion that Fascism is "Far Right". But in my own opinion I don't think terms of Right and Left are very good for describing modern political ideologies and their differences.


Thank you and I agree on the left and right comment.

It is my opinion that...

Both far right and far left (using those terms for simplicity) would converge on fascist tendencies. Perhaps the criteria would differ but...I am not sure its really all that different...

1. Both would want complete control of societal conformity and complete economic regulation/control.

2. Both would also converge on and likely support dictatorial control. This as a way to forceably suppress / oppose those who are deemed as non conforming or a less ideal member of their perfect society. Basically, a means to inact what both feel are their idealistic society and those worthy of participation.
 
Means of control and abuse of the population are the same whether fascist or communist.

The difference is the "Nationalist" component and private ownership of capital and production are allowed but only at the party in powers approval in a fascist state

Two sides of the same coin with what each would have you believe are huge differences but truth be told both are tyrannies.
 
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Different society's have a different definitions of what conservative views are. In Europe the economy and government was traditionally run as a type of command economy following the directives of the nobility. In that context fascism was seen as a return to traditional conservative European norms. At the time a conservative in Europe was likely a monarchist.
 
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So where does “Constitutionalist” fall within that spectrum of made up political ideologies?

We have one, and it’s provided a fairly stable framework for our government and country all this time.
 
So where does “Constitutionalist” fall within that spectrum of made up political ideologies?

We have one, and it’s provided a fairly stable framework for our government and country all this time.

We run on the principle of law and unlike other govts our framework is there to limit govt power rather than to enhance it.

Look up Obama lamenting the fact the Constitution restrained his power rather than giving him free hand.

The Founding Fathers were giants, don't let anyone say otherwise.
 
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In its simplest terms, fascism is corporate control of government. Or favoritism is given to corporations in return for money. It's more than that though, it's corporations working with government to control the financial institutions. It's far more socialist or communist than any other form of government as it's a partnership between business and government. China has evolved from full on communism to fascism. Fascism allows for private business' to operate like capitalists but in turn the business' "sponsor" the government.

"The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43); the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach."

Nationalism as described in fascism is much different than nationalism in regards to the USA. Mussolini believed Italians were superior, Hitler believed in his perfect race, the Japanese, at the time, believed they were superior. The US is much different in that there is no common race, unless you consider "white" to be a race. In this discussion "white" is NOT a race. Italian, Japanese, German/Bavarian would be considered "race", not just a generic geographical location/country. And because the term "right winged" appears in the definition, modern Leftists confuse it with modern day "Right Wing" conservatism as defined in modern America.
 
Thank you and I agree on the left and right comment.

It is my opinion that...

Both far right and far left (using those terms for simplicity) would converge on fascist tendencies. Perhaps the criteria would differ but...I am not sure its really all that different...

1. Both would want complete control of societal conformity and complete economic regulation/control.

2. Both would also converge on and likely support dictatorial control. This as a way to forceably suppress / oppose those who are deemed as non conforming or a less ideal member of their perfect society. Basically, a means to inact what both feel are their idealistic society and those worthy of participation.

I know you're using the terms for simplicity, but without a very clear universally shared objective definition on what is "right" and what is "left" saying the "far right" and the "far left" converge on fascism is a statement without any real substance. We live in an age where relying on labels to convey our values/ideology or that of others is a sure recipe to be misunderstood or misrepresented. This is largely IMO (and Hayek's if I recall correctly) the result of the handiwork of socialist totalitarians constantly redefining themselves, co-opting labels, and basically abusing language like no other. For an example in our current media and cultural environment someone like journalist Glenn Greenwald would be labeled far left, and radio host Alex Jones would be labeled far right. In contrast lets say Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush would be labeled moderate left and right. But which pair is ideologically closer to fascism? The answer should be obviously the later to anyone familiar with those personalities and fascism.

More often than not I would say terms like far right and left, alt right and left are less about identifying ideological extremes than they are about the political establishment demonizing those outside of the establishment who are or may challenge their political power. It's not that I haven't used those terms myself... again for simplicity and brevity, and often at the cost of substance. But in the context of the sort of the more in depth question (and discussion) you've started here I think they're best avoided or at least defined.

I know you started out by asking for a simply answer and ended up with annoying people like me giving long rather complex half answers. However, I really don't think there is a simple answer to the question as you stated it in the original post. Worse this is just the surface of a very deep rabbit hole you've stuck your head in.
 
Left and right being on the opposing ends of the political spectrum is a false paradigm deliberately set out as disinformation by collectivists of all types.

A more accurate spectrum would have tyranny of any type at one end and total liberty in the form of complete anarchy at the other end. Anyone who thinks people would be free of depradations against themselves and their property under anarchy are fools for the strong who are unrestrained by morals will always prey upon the weak.

Under such WROL conditions, I wouldn't be afraid for myself but I would be very concerned about my parents in their eighties.

When our Republic was established, the framers deliberately tried to craft a government that was only powerful enough to do what only governments can do. That would decidedly be out toward the liberty end of that spectrum.

People who enter into public service but who instead consider themselves our masters have been trying to subvert and undermine that foundation ever since.
 
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It so saddens me to see we have learned so little about the history and basics of Fascism, Socialism, Communism, Nazism, Nationalism, Left, Right, Conservationism, Liberalism, and such.

Millions dead and many innocents literally murdered i the early days before WWII and we learned absolutely nothing about what is good and proper, decent and monstrous. It seems it has been rewritten and now Fascists are Socialists/Communists and Anti Fascists are actually Nazis. This despite the fact that the Fascists murdered Socialists and Communists in droves before, during, and after the war.

But I suppose with the new definitions us old guys will just have to suck it and get with the times.

I guess history has already been rewritten and truth is lost. Oh well...we'll get it straight this next time I have no doubt.

VooDoo
 
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My understanding of what fascism truly means came by watching a documentary in which former German nazi Youth and soldiers explained what motivated them. They said that it felt very idealistic, because they were putting the good of the state before their own, individual interests.

People like to argue about what fascist means, but it will always mean to me the view opposite to the view that the only legitimate purpose of government is to maximize the individual personal freedoms of its citizens.
 
Left and right being on the opposing ends of the political spectrum is a false paradigm deliberately set out as disinformation by collectivists of all types.

I tend to agree...however...

There are differences inherent to the policies which do differentiate left and right.

Now...I would agree with you as far as how one should go about enforcing ( or lack thereof ), said policy. This is where I do see the spectrum you mention and I agree with coming into play.

For example.

Far left complete open borders, disbanding ICE ect. (Globalists?)

Far right, closed guarded border with strict illegal immigration enforecement. (Nationalistic?)

So to say there is no left and right IMO over simplifies some of the inherent policy and ideological differences between the two.

Now in simple forms when it comes to actions and enforcement, both sides of this are equally vulnerable to violence IMO. And, in their very simplist terms I see almost no differences between globalism and nationalism. Where we are only adjusting span of control.

In the end anyone can picture their version of an idealistic society which would have an infinite variety. What is the same for every iteration is the only way to achieve is with brute force. This was the main point in my OP.
 
And socialists/communists have murdered millions throughout history as well. Something that is also forgotten and not taught in todays educational systems.
Not my point - Fascists and Nazis are not the new Socialists and Communists is my point. The Nazis (Fascists and Nationalists) murdered shit loads of Socialists and Communists and they didn't do that because they were of the same Political Ideology.

Of course they are all guilty of murdering millions. Fascists, Communists, Nationalists, andr Socialists do not murder their own...they murder the other guy. Hitler and his Nazis didn't murder Socialists because they were the same ideologically. Stalin didn't murder millions of Communists because they were of the same ideology.

They murdered the opposition for power, money, and control.

VooDoo
 
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Not my point - Fascists and Nazis are not the new Socialists and Communists is my point. The Nazis (Fascists and Nationalists) murdered shit loads of Socialists and Communists and they didn't do that because they were of the same Political Ideology.

Of course they are all guilty of murdering millions. Fascists, Communists, Nationalists, andr Socialists do not murder their own...they murder the other guy. Hitler and his Nazis didn't murder Socialists because they were the same ideologically. Stalin didn't murder millions of Communists because they were of the same ideology.

They murdered the opposition for power, money, and control.

VooDoo

Good points...money, power and control. The ever-present underlying drivers...

And I only added my comment as a side-point to your comment.

Was not intended to offer a counter-argument or paraphrase your intended meaning.
 
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A conflation of the downfalls of fascist/socialist/communist ideologies and outcomes.
These confusing ideals/statements are to redirect attention towards a new societial wrong instead of
the realization that antifa is the brown shirts of the socialist democrats and their goals.
Oldest tactic of their team.

R
 
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What you have to understand is that within political theory you will almost never have an absolute "this is it" definition about a style of government. Varying scholars have their own definitions (not literally every one, but maybe half a dozen scholars on this particular subject that others base continuing theory on). Here are some well regarded sources Ive used in the past:
Griffin, Roger, The Nature of Fascism
Paxton, Robert, The Anatomy of Fascism
De Grand, Alexander Italian Fascism: Its Origins and Development
De Grand, Alexander. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany: The ‘Fascist Style of Rule’.
Levy, Carl. “Fascism, National Socialism and Conservatives: Comparativist Issues” in Contemporary European History, Vol. 8, No. 1"
Mosse, George. “Introduction: The Genesis of Fascism” in Journal of Contemporary History, Vol. 1, No. 1"

Levy and Mosse's articles in particular are good resources for a base understanding.
If looking for a good primer on authoritarianism in general, a book called Dictators and Dictatorships: Understanding Authoritarian Regimes and their Leaders is one that I like to recommend. It's a 300 levelish textbook so should be pretty easy to understand.
 
The whole issue becomes easier if you expand the one-dimensional Left vs. Right spectrum to a 2 dimensional space.

On the x-axis you have Left vs. Right and on the y-axis it's Authoritarian vs. Libertarian (i.e. the power of the collective vs. the power of the individual).

Anything that leans towards authoritarian is bad. I do not care whether it is the SJWs or the neo-nazis. Neither has a place in this country according to the Constitution.

When the Woke Left harps about the alt-right, I reply with: "It guess it takes one (authoritarian) to know one"

Credits: I heard about the 2-dim model in one of Bret Weinstein's lectures.
 
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The whole issue becomes easier if you expand the one-dimensional Left vs. Right spectrum to a 2 dimensional space.

On the x-axis you have Left vs. Right and on the y-axis it's Authoritarian vs. Libertarian (i.e. the power of the collective vs. the power of the individual).

Anything that leans towards authoritarian is bad. I do not care whether it is the SJWs or the neo-nazis. Neither has a place in this country according to the Constitution.

When the Woke Left harps about the alt-right, I reply with: "It guess it takes one (authoritarian) to know one"

Credits: I heard about the 2-dim model in one of Bret Weinstein's lectures.

Agree, excellent.

This makes sense.
 
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...a "far right" ideology? And explain in "simplish" terms to the ignorant (me). Or point to some good reading?

Granted this is from wiki:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

I am no expert on this topic by any means. But what strikes me as interesting is the use of the word "ultranationalism" and "forceable supression".

Seems to me that either left OR right at far ends of the spectrum could be considered fascist. The ultranationalism part is also interesting...

both are socialist. "fascism" is militantly ultranationalist, which makes them bad guys because they want to use their neighbors as resource farms - and because people do not want to be treated like milk cows, forceable suppression comes into play.

Progressivism, bolshevism, globalism.....and the other assorted guys who think that once the entire world is under their rule, they themselves will become the messianic rulers of mankind..... are diabolically committed to uniting the entire world under one socialist government. And since many people believe in natural rights like life liberty and happiness and do not want to be treated like mindless animals in a stable, forceable suppression comes into play in order to beat the the unruly slaves into 'right think'.

both use the same methods, both share the same disregard for human rights and self determination. both are socialist. the only real differences are that one focuses on "other nations" as the object of their aggression, while the other cares about "class" meaning there can only be the elite, and the slaves. Any middle class or non-affiliated people with wealth or power are the enemy of the state. And of course, fascists are content to make their one nation a nightmare-state and terror for their neighbors, while the globalists will not be happy until the entire world is a single nightmare state, with no escape possible.

Since idiot progressives can only see the world in shades of socialism, they automatically say that anyone who is not an international socialist is a "fascist". They can not see America as a nation of enlightened classical liberalism where we mind our own business and allow people to make their own decisions, and earn the rewards of our own hard work. Nope, to them if it aint international socialism, it's gotta be fascism. Derp.
 
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both are socialist. "fascism" is militantly ultranationalist, which makes them bad guys because they want to use their neighbors as resource farms - and because people do not want to be treated like milk cows, forceable suppression comes into play.

Progressivism, bolshevism, globalism.....and the other assorted guys who think that once the entire world is under their rule, they themselves will become the messianic rulers of mankind..... are diabolically committed to uniting the entire world under one socialist government. And since many people believe in natural rights like life liberty and happiness and do not want to be treated like mindless animals in a stable, forceable suppression comes into play in order to beat the the unruly slaves into 'right think'.

both use the same methods, both share the same disregard for human rights and self determination. both are socialist. the only real differences are that one focuses on "other nations" as the object of their aggression, while the other cares about "class" meaning there can only be the elite, and the slaves. Any middle class or non-affiliated people with wealth or power are the enemy of the state.

Since idiot progressives can only see the world in shades of socialism, they automatically say that anyone who is not an international socialist is a "fascist". They can not see America as a nation of enlightened classical liberalism where we mind our own business and allow people to make their own decisions, and earn the rewards of our own hard work. Nope, to them if it aint international socialism, it's gotta be fascism. Derp.
That is factually and historically incorrect, while at the same time a gross oversimplification.
 
Left and right being on the opposing ends of the political spectrum is a false paradigm deliberately set out as disinformation by collectivists of all types.

A more accurate spectrum would have tyranny of any type at one end and total liberty in the form of complete anarchy at the other end. Anyone who thinks people would be free of depradations against themselves and their property under anarchy are fools for the strong who are unrestrained by morals will always prey upon the weak.

Under such WROL conditions, I wouldn't be afraid for myself but I would be very concerned about my parents in their eighties.

When our Republic was established, the framers deliberately tried to craft a government that was only powerful enough to do what only governments can do. That would decidedly be out toward the liberty end of that spectrum.

People who enter into public service but who instead consider themselves our masters have been trying to subvert and undermine that foundation ever since.

"that to secure these Rights (life, liberty, and property) Governments are instituted among men".

Thats the whole point. Anything beyond that is usurpation
 
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Antifa is anti fascist by somebody's definition. My definition is that is exactly what they are. And they align with who? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably not a chicken.

the red in the nazi flag was meant to symbolize the struggle of the workers, which had long been a main point in the social philosophy of Germany, concurrent with Marx (remember, the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker's Party).

The red in the bolshevik flag was meant to symbolize the struggle of the workers (proletariat)

so......yeah, lots of basic foundational philosophy shared there. Goebbels himself was sympathetic to Bolshevism before latching onto the nazi power ladder.

take away a few trite catchphrases, and both groups sound, act, and murder rivals exactly like each other, for the same socialist "good of the whole" reasons.
 
Conservatives are really middle of the road in the political spectrum. as you move left on the spectrum your get extreme left, then socialists, then communists. As you move right your get extreme right, and then moving to the extreme extreme right would be the Anarchists.

The farther left you move the more they want the govt to control everything. As you move right they want less govt. Go all the way right to the anarchists and they want zero govt.

So us moderate conservatives are really the ones well balanced and that is why the Right is Right.
 
Conservatives are really middle of the road in the political spectrum. as you move left on the spectrum your get extreme left, then socialists, then communists. As you move right your get extreme right, and then moving to the extreme extreme right would be the Anarchists.

The farther left you move the more they want the govt to control everything. As you move right they want less govt. Go all the way right to the anarchists and they want zero govt.

So us moderate conservatives are really the ones well balanced and that is why the Right is Right.
So this thinking, while understandable, is based on the Traditional Left-Right Spectrum that emerged around the French Revolution. The Monarchists and Aristocrats sat on the Right side of the Assembly while the Revolutionists and Commoners sat on the Left side. The Fascism of Germany, Spain, and Italy generally align on the Right side because they all supported Monarchism/Imperialism to some extent. American political parties don't really fit into this context because neither the Left nor the Right associate with Monarchism or Revolution. Democrats are essentially Social Liberals/Egalitarian Liberals, while Republicans are Classical Liberals.

A modern, single plane, left to right US political chart is essentially useless when discussing things like this. Even your definition of Anarchy is only in the American, anarcho-capitalist sense (that emerged as an offshoot of American libertarianism), since anarchism has traditionally been a "left" wing anti-capitalist state, the most famous being the Spanish ararchist settlements that were killed by Franco's forces in the 30's. Although Anarchy does have many schools of thought.

The Fascists themselves rejected the labels of Left and Right, and instead called themselves the Third Position, or Third Way, that was outside of the Left-Right Spectrum. It was both anti-Communist and anti-Capitalist. It rejected the Materialist worldview of the Marxists and also the Liberal worldview of the Capitalists. They instead embraced Corporatism and an Actualist worldview. This was basically a system where massive labor unions and massive organizations of capitalists managed the economy, but not labor unions in the small American sense, a labor union in Italy would have been called something like the transportation union(apologies that I cannot remember the exact term off the top of my head) with all jobs related to transportation under that umbrella, bus and train drivers, dockworkers, road construction workers, etc. Capitalist groups in reference to Italy would in modern terms be something similar to the entire combined tech or oil industries we have. Like if Google, Apple, Amazon, Cisco, Level3, Facebook, Microsoft, all united under one umbrella.

To elaborate a bit, Corporatism is not Socialism, but it comes close to the positions many European Social Democrats had taken during and after WWI. From this perspective, Fascism was also close to the moderate Left in Europe but deeply opposed to the extreme Left and Bolshevism/Marxism.

With both of these points in mind: Yes, there were Left-wing Fascists within the Fascist movements but the overall Fascist movements were not strictly left-wing. So no, there were no left-Fascist governments.

The biggest point to make is that Fascism is not strictly Right or strictly Left. There were such things as Homosexual Nazis, Socialist Fascists, anarcho-Corporatists, Actualist-Communists, and so on, that existed within Fascist governments or within Fascist movements. Each one of these groups exerted some degree of influence. But many of these groups were often also purged after the party had solidified itself into power.

We tend to want to group things into categories we understand, but when you are looking at historical things like the rise of fascism, you have to try to understand that those arose from sometimes hundreds of years of unique political and societal changes that we have no innate historical knowledge of growing up. Like as an example, could someone just say the entire rise of the Soviet Union was because "Lenin hated people with money"? You could if you want. But there is literally hundreds of years of history, politics, and social shifts spanning an insane amount of readings that led to the October Revolution. Entire volumes of books have been written about it. Same with Italy and Nazi Germany.

Sorry about the wall of text, but political theory and historical contexts are kind of my thing, and I feel that we should have an appreciation of exactly how not-simple any of these massive political movements were.

I can't believe I forgot this, but in addition to the references in my above post, This essay by Umberto Eco is usually a top resource when it comes to Fascism, with his 14 characteristics of Fascism widely regarded as its best descriptors.
 
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Facism is not "far right" at all. It is just another form or flavor of socialism, just with a nationalist component as opposed to communism which is internationalist socialism.

When people think of facism, the prime example that comes to mind is Nazism. The word Nazi is derived from the acronym for Nationalist Socialist. I believe the formal party name was Nationalist Socialist Workers Party.

They are all just different shades of red.
fascism always comes from the left.
 
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It so saddens me to see we have learned so little about the history and basics of Fascism, Socialism, Communism, Nazism, Nationalism, Left, Right, Conservationism, Liberalism, and such.

Millions dead and many innocents literally murdered i the early days before WWII and we learned absolutely nothing about what is good and proper, decent and monstrous. It seems it has been rewritten and now Fascists are Socialists/Communists and Anti Fascists are actually Nazis. This despite the fact that the Fascists murdered Socialists and Communists in droves before, during, and after the war.

But I suppose with the new definitions us old guys will just have to suck it and get with the times.

I guess history has already been rewritten and truth is lost. Oh well...we'll get it straight this next time I have no doubt.

VooDoo

Newspeak is pretty difficult to get the hang of. but the minister of propaganda will definitely help you out with it. anyway they can.


Not my point - Fascists and Nazis are not the new Socialists and Communists is my point. The Nazis (Fascists and Nationalists) murdered shit loads of Socialists and Communists and they didn't do that because they were of the same Political Ideology.

Of course they are all guilty of murdering millions. Fascists, Communists, Nationalists, andr Socialists do not murder their own...they murder the other guy. Hitler and his Nazis didn't murder Socialists because they were the same ideologically. Stalin didn't murder millions of Communists because they were of the same ideology.

They murdered the opposition for power, money, and control.

VooDoo

I think you are forgetting the ethnic cleansing reason behind the nazis murdering Communists. Hitler rose to power by using a scapegoat. and then had to follow through on his scapegoating with extermination. and fear and oppression are always a key component to gaining and holding power, along with disarmament.


Facsism, nazism, socialism, and communism are not the same ideology exactly. But their ideals are all based on the same principles, and they are intertwined where when its all boiled down, its the same core tenants:


Reject all religion, for the state/government is who you worship. all things "good" flow from the state.

all citizens are the same and are no more or less important than others. unless they are the party leaders, and then they receive a God-like following/worshiping.

etc and so forth.




i believe the slaughter of these groups, by their sister ideologies, was more a coincidence of regional location than anything else. Had any of the groups the nazis conquered nearby been anything else than socialism/communism, they would have died just the same or been oppressed the same. Hitler would have spared no one, and had he been successful in defeating the Allies, would have immediately turned his attention to destroying and conquering Mussolini and Italy, the same way he turned on Stalin.
 
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Newspeak is pretty difficult to get the hang of. but the minister of propaganda will definitely help you out with it. anyway they can.




I think you are forgetting the ethnic cleansing reason behind the nazis murdering Communists. Hitler rose to power by using a scapegoat. and then had to follow through on his scapegoating with extermination. and fear and oppression are always a key component to gaining and holding power, along with disarmament.


Facsism, nazism, socialism, and communism are not the same ideology exactly. But their ideals are all based on the same principles, and they are intertwined where when its all boiled down, its the same core tenants:


Reject all religion, for the state/government is who you worship. all things "good" flow from the state.

all citizens are the same and are no more or less important than others. unless they are the party leaders, and then they receive a God-like following/worshiping.

etc and so forth.




i believe the slaughter of these groups, by their sister ideologies, was more a coincidence of regional location than anything else. Had any of the groups the nazis conquered nearby been anything else than socialism/communism, they would have died just the same or been oppressed the same. Hitler would have spared no one, and had he been successful in defeating the Allies, would have immediately turned his attention to destroying and conquering Mussolini and Italy, the same way he turned on Stalin.


I think Hitler really admired Mussolini. He went way out of his way to save him the first time.

Hitler would have been fine to allow the Japanese their sphere as the ideology recognized their homgeneous "pure" race. Eventually though..............