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That's a bummer it's. It working out for you. It's a pain making the brass but I love it once it's working for you.Not sure why getting a bullet through a fired case neck gets so much mention. Every cartridge I've shot with a tight neck, 6BR, 6PPC, 300WSM, etc, neck clearance is such that a bullet cannot be pushed into a fired case and pressures are normal, accuracy was and is excellent. Brass springs back from .001" to .002" after being fired, so if you have .002" clearance, you may not be able to get a bullet in a fired case. I had all kinds of pressure issues with my 6.5 SAUM and kept turning for more and more clearance hoping that would help but it made no difference. Still not sure what the issue is with my SAUM and I'm going to screw the barrel back on and try it Monday after having the throat lengthened a little. If that doesn't work I'll have a lot of 6.5 SAUM components available for sale Since I've had my issues I've been contacted by and talked to several others that have had pressure issues with the 6.5 SAUM. Not sure what's going on but something doesn't add up. It's not like it's any more complicated that other tight neck cartridges but there seems to be an issue somewhere and it's somewhat widespread it seems. Honestly after running 215 Bergers in my 300wsm the 6.5 SAUM is seeming less "magical".
Try this, on your sized brass that you've bumped the shoulder on: chamber the sized empty case and pull the trigger. Extract the cAse and put it back in the chamber again and cycle the bolt... Any easier??
i had this problem and it was diving me nuts. Finally some discussion with bas402 and some other folks I turned the brass down a bit further into the shoulder.... A lot a bit is more accurate. Fired and sized cases now run flawless without any resistance. I suspect it has something to do with two things:
1) after turning the first time the neck shoulder junction grew thicker after fire forming.
2) using a type s 7saum bushing die, the through hole before you get to the bushing is a bit larger than if it were a true 6.5 die. When sizing the entire portion of the shoulder isn't being pushed back enough and now that you have this thicker portion of brass just below the neck shoulder junction it's causing an interference fit.
Firing on a sized case exhibiting these symptoms seemed to size it back just enough to remove the interference and the brass chambers fine there after. However, to remedy the situation I had to turn the brass on the shoulder a bit more.
i turned brass to .014" on the necks to give more clearance. Plus, when I turned to .015" I couldn't get a bullet to pass through a fired case. .0145" was better but I had to "work" the bullet a bit to get it to go trough a fired case neck. .014" and a bullet will go through a fired case neck easily.
I'm not saying you need to turn to .014 on your necks, each chamber is different to some aspects, I had to turn down to .01465" for me to be satisfied. I do agree with SPAK in that I think you need to turn onto the shoulder more because of the growth in the shoulder/neck junction. I even was able to duplicate what SPAK is talking about when chambering/trigger on a fired prepped empty Norma case. I even seen this (lesser degree) with Remmy brass but only on one case. I believe at some point even turning on to the shoulder more I will need to inside ream the necks. I even noticed that when Pat posted pic's not long ago on his 50 pieces of brass I noted that on his info listed on his box it stated inside reamed 2 times. We are dealing with a wildcat Rd here and expect certain things to pop up that we need to address. This is a ass kicking Rd cause through out my whole process my rig has shot lights out. I really enjoy it but there is a learning curve at least for me but It's worth it! I hope some one starts making a 6.5SAUM die sets in the future as I think it will save some of us some time. I'm also still hoping that George gets the brass project going quickly as well...THAT will seal the deal for me!
You mean down on the shoulder more? Sounds like your neck tho ness is just about rightI don't recall having this problem with Rem brass, but to be safe turing a bit more into the neck seems to be the next step.
It's pretty straight forward, I'm already set up for it with a K&M tool I had when clean up my necks on my 260 brass. You can do it all in one pass, outside on to the shoulder, and inside. K&M has multiple angled cutters as well.I've never reamed the insides before - guess it's time to figure that out. Thanks for the help!
You mean down on the shoulder more? Sounds like your neck tho ness is just about right
That's a bummer it's. It working out for you. It's a pain making the brass but I love it once it's working for you.
If you go to sell some stuff let me know.
Thanks give me a place to start, if you don't mind what was the max load you tried?60 grains is what I started with.
How far off the lands are you guys seating the 140's? Bergers that is
Thanks give me a place to start, if you don't mind what was the max load you tried?
IIRC 63.6 Retumbo was the most I tried during a ladder test. I have a 29" barrel and a longer throat as the rifle is a long action. A few 140 hybrids, the load being 63 gr Retumbo, didn't make it to the steel at 3225 fps so I backed the load down to the next node which is 3125 fps at 60.9 grains.
Honestly the best advice would be to work up some loads. The magic load in Remington brass that I know of is 63 grains of H1000 with the 130's. And for the 140's it's around 61 to 61.5... but please do some work ups it may be too hot of a load for your specific rifleSorry for starting this discussion over again.
I just ordered a GAP 6.5 SAUM, 26" barrel w/ 8.7" twist & .296" neck.
I have read every thread that I could find about load development and am still stumped for a load range with Nosler brass. I'll be using Berger 130 & 140 VLD's and Hybrids. I'd appreciate any help.
I don't but from my DTA with the 300 RSAUM brass I have water capacity of...74 gr. I think. I will edit this once I get the actual from my notebook. You can compare yours from these numbers... but some of the guys already have the answer for youThanks for the reply. I would definitely work up even if I was shooting for the "magic load". Any idea what the load differential is between Remington and Nosler brass?
300 to 6.5 RSAUM Brass Work, Lessons Learned!
Started with Norma 300 RSAUM Brass.
Using a Whidden 6.5 RSAUM Full Length Bushing Die Whidden Gunworks
I ran the brass through a series of 4 bushings (Redding Type S), .331, .317, .303, .291, which took the brass down to .252/.253 Inner Neck Diameter. I hind sight, I am not sure that I needed to really go down this small?
I then ran it through a Sinclair Expander Die with a 6.5 Expander Mandrel http://www.sinclairintl.com/search/index.htm?k=expander&ksubmit=y
This gave me an .262 inner neck diameter, with with a neck wall thickness of .019, and a .300 outer neck diameter, which left me with 2 issues to deal with.
Issue 1 - Looking at those measurements, the .300 outer neck diameter was going to be too big/tight to work with a .296 reamer. This meant the outside would have to be turned down.
Issue 2 - Utilizing a pin gage to check the inside neck measurement & consistency, I found that a "dreaded donut" was present.
Using a .262 pin gage, it would easily slide about 3/4s of the way down inside the neck and then stop. Looking inside the case it was not real evident, but you could tell that there was a thicker area of brass bulging into the neck just above the neck & shoulder junction.
Solution! I took my Forster neck turner with an inside neck reamer insert and turned both the inside and outside of the necks.
It took some trial & error with the adjustment but I was finally able to get an inside neck diameter of .264 with the reamer, a neck wall thickness of .015, and an outside neck diameter of .294.
I then took that brass and ran it through a Redding Types S 7 RSAUM Neck Die with a .292 bushing which gave me a finished inside neck diameter of .262 (I prefer .002 neck tension, some prefer more)
Checking the inside of the neck with a .262 pin gage, it showed no more signs of a donut. Checking the outside of the neck & shoulder junction I could not detect any buildup/donut. The outside finished neck diameter of .292 would work fine with the .296 neck reamer.
Success! or at least I am hoping so!
I will report back once I get this shot up on how everything went, and how I am going to handle the re-sizing.
Thanks again to everyone for sharing their feedback and getting me to this point.