Well we will follow the path that Pat's laid out so nicely and see how it plays out, but it still does not compute to me yet maybe once I go through the process it will. I turn necks for several of my rigs so maybe I'm just over thinking it
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Care And Feeding Of A GAP 6.5 SAUM.....
- Thread starter psinclair
- Start date
I'm reading all of this excellent info and wondering if I'm jumping in to deep. I'm new to reloading and thus far I've only loaded for one caliber. My results have been great so far but needless to say reloading for 6.5 SAUM is much more in depth than .223. Are the components overwhelmingly too hard to find? Would you recommend getting into this caliber given the process involved to reload for it?
I F/L size all my brass on all my calibers and anneal can't afford chambering issues in a match. I don't have that problem heck I've got 308 on it's 14 cycle and 7WSM on i's 8th cycle, 338LM on it's 6th, 260&CM brass on it's 6th
Only you can really answer that question. I was in a similar situation having only loaded for my 308s. I ordered my gun from GAP and figured the 4-6 month lead time would be enough time to find components and learn how to load this round. For the most part, it's spelled out in a few threads here on the Hide. And there are people who are willing to answer questions when/if they arise. Components become available in intervals - best to get your name on the notification lists from various sites. I'm down to looking for Tula or Fed magnum primers, but I still have many months yet to wait for my gun. By the time it gets here I'm sure I'll have a good portion of ammo ready and waiting.
Although H-1000 seems like the powder of choice there are other powders which will work. H-4831, Retumbo, etc.
Many choices for 6.5 bullets.
Since this a wildcat cartridge which needs to be necked down there is a little bit of a learning curve but you can always take a few brass to use as sacrificial brass to learn on then once you have the nuances figured out process all the rest.
Thanks for the response I would really like to get behind a rifle in this caliber! Fongman you wouldn't happen to shoot up in Leonard at Top Gun would you?
No sir. I'm in the Ft. Worth area. Do most of my shooting at my own range and occasionally spend a weekend at Badlands in Oklahoma.
Don't know if I missed it in he thread but is here any reason you can't turn the necks on 300 saum first before necking down?? Only reason I ask is I'm already set up to turn .30 cal...
2nd question, I know this was touched on before but I wanted to confirm: the new reamer specs have a .2962" neck. If my math is right that gives a loaded round OD on the neck .294". Has anyone had any clearance issues in the field? It just seemed a little tight in the neck. I've also seen conflicting info on which neck dimension (.298" vs .296") the commercially made brass (if/when it happens) will be spec'd to.
sorry if I missed the info somewhere in the thread, I read it a few times but couldn't find it...
Thanks in advance.
2nd question, I know this was touched on before but I wanted to confirm: the new reamer specs have a .2962" neck. If my math is right that gives a loaded round OD on the neck .294". Has anyone had any clearance issues in the field? It just seemed a little tight in the neck. I've also seen conflicting info on which neck dimension (.298" vs .296") the commercially made brass (if/when it happens) will be spec'd to.
sorry if I missed the info somewhere in the thread, I read it a few times but couldn't find it...
Thanks in advance.
I'm set up to do both, The question is which way is the better or does it matter? I would think it would be to neck down first then turn but.....
Forgive me if this has been answered but I looked and couldn't find anything. What mags are you running and what's the capacity? Can you run the SAUM with AW mags? If so what's the capacity? If not then which mags?
I got to thinking about it later and if I'm right - turning the 300 SAUM brass while still 30 cal "as is" before necking down, will result in no donut because the neck will become part of the shoulder when it's necked down to 6.5 because the 6.5 neck will be shorter than it is when 30 cal.
I'm borrowing a friends 7 SAUM bushing dies this weekend so I'll report back with with how that went.
I'm on the wait list for 6.5 SAUM dies from Copper Creek so it's going to be a month or so before I can finish unless I decide to buy the innards.
I just got (100) Norma 300 SAUM cases prepped to 6.5 from Copper Creek and they look fabulous .01475-.015" neck turned into the shoulder 1/32" and cases neck measures .2935-.294" with a length of 2.009-2.011" for those who are interested and with Norma being soft shouldn't take but 1or2 cycles for them to grow. I have (500) more virgin 300 norma cases to be here tomorrow. I have all my bushings and turning equipment now just waiting on my dies from Josh #6 on the list.
Steve, I thought this too, but when necking down from larger to smaller diameter does the brass flow back into the shoulder or does it just become thicker around the neck? Meaning, if you turn to .015" prior to necking down will it still remain .015" afterwards?
curious to your results too.
btw, I mentioned the the 6.5 saum 4s to Forster the other day, they said they don't have any plans for dies at this time, but it doesn't mean they won't. If enough people show interest perhaps they might get on the production a little quicker... I know they're currently in the works for making 6.5 creedmoor dies which they didn't have before.. Just a thought.
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Thanks for the info. They are cut shorter than I thought they would be. Which is good - it means I have more room to uniform than I thought.
Necking down the 300 SAUM brass to 7mm in a Redding type S 7mmSAUM sizer was "easy" and resulted in no problems. I just used his die as he had it but lubed the body and neck of the case with imperial die wax. The inside of the necks already had a little imperial wax in them from neck turning. The necks went down from .337" to .315. for a .022 neck down in one step. Hopefully the necks will stretch a little bit from leaving the expander ball in the die. There's a little bit of the bottom of the neck that didn't get sized all the way because of the bushing die so I'm glad I turned them when they were 30 cal at this point.
I wish I had a ball gauge set to run through the inside of the neck to find out. Most of the other cartridges I shoot have the freebore set so the bottom of the baring surface of the bullet doesn't go past the neck shoulder junction when seated so I haven't worried about it too much. Since I'm running my 6.5 SAUM through a long action I'll try to have it throated the same way with a separate throating reamer, hopefully the GS has one. I doubt if the brass if bunched up at the bottom where the bushing stopped because it didn't take any more than regular force to size the cases down.
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Steve,
Did you take them down to 6.5 or just to 7? Or am I reading it wrong. Did you end up with a ridge at the neck/shoulder area or am I reading that wrong as well if so that could result in the "donut" when fired. Maybe you could post a pick of your finished product as I'm curious as well turning @ 30 cal to .015" then necking down to 6.5 the brass has to go somewhere I would think. I was thinking about ordering a redding micro sizer so I can size further down on the neck vs the S dies I'm getting from Copper Creek.
Did you take them down to 6.5 or just to 7? Or am I reading it wrong. Did you end up with a ridge at the neck/shoulder area or am I reading that wrong as well if so that could result in the "donut" when fired. Maybe you could post a pick of your finished product as I'm curious as well turning @ 30 cal to .015" then necking down to 6.5 the brass has to go somewhere I would think. I was thinking about ordering a redding micro sizer so I can size further down on the neck vs the S dies I'm getting from Copper Creek.
As a followup to Steve & other's inquiries, here's a pic of how far I turned my necks into the shoulder.
Turning was done @ .284" ID. Last step for me was to neck down the rest of the way with proper bushing.
Final loaded rd nk. dia. is .294" & final neck bushing size used is .291"
Turning was done @ .284" ID. Last step for me was to neck down the rest of the way with proper bushing.
Final loaded rd nk. dia. is .294" & final neck bushing size used is .291"
To 7mm, I don't have the bushings or innards to make a 6.5 SAUM yet, just borrowing a friends 7 SAUM set for now. My rifle isn't even chambered yet but hopefully in a month I'll be up and running.
Truthfully I don't like the S type bushing dies. When I fire form some cases I'll send them off and have some custom dies made. If need be I'll do some inside neck reaming for a donut but I'm hoping the gunsmith has a throating reamer so I can seat the 140's out past the neck shoulder junction.
Thanks for that info Steve. I found a set of 7mm SAUM "comp"Redding dies (3die set) so now I will be able to size the whole neck length to the shoulder. Since I'm already set up for 6.5 neck turning(tools/mandrels/vld seating stem etc) along with the listed parts that Josh is suppling with the Redding 6.5 4s dies. I called Josh and cancelled my die set so "someone" just moved up a spot on the list! I also ordered more of his brass just to get me started and discussed with him on his process since his brass prep on his cases is stellar! He told me that he steps down in 5 steps from 300SAUM to 6.5mm and then and only then turns to .015" wall thickness just as Pat mentioned in this thread. That's just so happens the way I have tools/bushings etc. to do my prep. It works doing it this way and I have to much invested to stray from it. Got my 4s go/no go gauges today from PT&G but my .296 neck reamer is still 3wks out but so is my stock from Manners so the wait goes on.....
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Those look great knock! Thanks for the pic'sAs a followup to Steve & other's inquiries, here's a pic of how far I turned my necks into the shoulder.
Turning was done @ .284" ID. Last step for me was to neck down the rest of the way with proper bushing.
Final loaded rd nk. dia. is .294" & final neck bushing size used is .291"
just ordered an extreme hunter and cant wait to get started. Do yall prefer the norma brass over remington or does it matter? Are the loads the same with either one?
If you look at the picture that Pat posted starting this thread you will see they are LRM primers. I use mag primers on all my mag cartridges because of the slow burning powders used.
Most prefer the Remmy brass but it is hard to find unless you get it from CC. it has a very slight case volume advantage over the Norma/Nosler brass but we are talking SLIGHT. I have been told by Josh at CC that both work just fine. IMO the Norma spec's out better and no prep is needed except for the neck sizing/turning going from 300 to 6.5, I will be using Norma until George gets a line of proper head stamp brass, but that is next year at least.
In addition, anyone tried the 160 Matrix? Interested to see if this bullet will stabilized with the standard extreme hunter twist rate which I believe is 8.3.
Got my Norma 7SAUM brass today, looks great now I won't need to trim so much and the prep process will be shorter 
Anyone find a good seating depth with the Berger 130vld's and the new shorter .081 reamer. I cant get mine to shoot good at 200 yards and tried all kinds of COAl. I have 150 rounds down it now and still having trouble. It shoots good at 100 yards, but really opens up at 200 yards.
Load Nosler brass turned down to 15
61.5 H1000
CCI-BR2 primers
COAL 2.870
My ave 4 shot 100 yard groups
But when i move out to 200 yards group open way up. The ave 200 yard group looks like the top group of this 100 yard target at best.
Thanks for the help. Its frustrating. I want to try the Berger 140 Hybrid once I can find them. Maybe the gun just does not like the 130's
Cory
Load Nosler brass turned down to 15
61.5 H1000
CCI-BR2 primers
COAL 2.870
My ave 4 shot 100 yard groups
But when i move out to 200 yards group open way up. The ave 200 yard group looks like the top group of this 100 yard target at best.
Thanks for the help. Its frustrating. I want to try the Berger 140 Hybrid once I can find them. Maybe the gun just does not like the 130's
Cory
Care And Feeding Of A GAP 6.5 SAUM.....
Is the slight less case capacity of the nosler brass compared to the rem brass causing your vertical to open up with same powder charge?
Scratch that I re read post I was thinking u were shooting the 140 not the 130
Is the slight less case capacity of the nosler brass compared to the rem brass causing your vertical to open up with same powder charge?
Scratch that I re read post I was thinking u were shooting the 140 not the 130
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Any load over 62 grains and I start to see pressure with stuff bolt lift. I know the loads that GAP recommends with the longer reamer throat, rem brass, and the 130 was 63 grains. In my gun 62.3 grains I am getting really stuff bolt lift. No flat primers, but I am getting scrapping around the primer pocket. Going to MAG primers just increased pressure.
barrel length? That veloicty seems a bit low to be seeing pressure signs...
Have you shot it any further than 200 yards? That being said, even with the vertical dispersion that still looks like a 1/2moa group.
Are those numbers on the side of your targets the COAL??? You're initial post said your COAL was 2.870" but the ones on the target are 3.260-3280"?
Have you shot it any further than 200 yards? That being said, even with the vertical dispersion that still looks like a 1/2moa group.
Are those numbers on the side of your targets the COAL??? You're initial post said your COAL was 2.870" but the ones on the target are 3.260-3280"?
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Are you meaning ejector scrap? Have you checked your chamber/brass for marks,maybe brass length? Seems odd that you have stiff bolt lift but the primers aren't flattening,could you post some pic's of your cases? I'm with Frog what does the 3.260-3.280 refer to COAL?
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It has a Bartlein 25 inch 1-8.5. I shoot 4 shoots at 1000 yards just to burn up the last 4 shoots. Did not tell me anything.
No the number next to the target are the Hornady bullet comparator, 3.250 which is COAL of 2.870
I am just bumping the shoulder back 2 thou. Just enough that I can close the bolt nice and easy on a loaded round.
It has me stumped why I am having stuff bolt lift with no flat primers, and slow speeds.
Sky,
Did you use the turn reamer? 6.5 GAP 4S Print# 50645 as George mentioned or #54565 as you stated in your earlier post?
