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Care And Feeding Of A GAP 6.5 SAUM.....
- Thread starter psinclair
- Start date
Sounds good. Widden dies are excellent. And are priced very well given the fact they also include a neck bump gauge. Gives you the ability to bump just a couple thou. I'll get one on order
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Well the whidden sizer is on order. But had a mind fog on my seater. I have a standard rcbs 7saum seater. Ordered the redding rcbs seater. Well. RCBS does not have the 1/2 thread.
So what's a decent seater out there for the vlds. I'm a set it and forget it guy. Or at least moving enough to chase a throat. Not looking for the $100 plus seat. Midway does not list many options. I'll keep looking but what are folks using??
So what's a decent seater out there for the vlds. I'm a set it and forget it guy. Or at least moving enough to chase a throat. Not looking for the $100 plus seat. Midway does not list many options. I'll keep looking but what are folks using??
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Alot of guys have called and asked exactly what dies they need from Redding. Here is a picture with all the part #'s shown
If starting from 300 SAUM brass you also need a .311 bushing.
Hope this helps.
If starting from 300 SAUM brass you also need a .311 bushing.
Hope this helps.
6.5 saum
I have 12 sets in stock already converted to 6.5 SAUM with the Seating stem changed out and the Decaping rod changed to 6.5 Sizer button come with both the 2.90 and.295 bushings, and Comp seater with VLD Stem!
they are $278 + $12 Shipping
Call Ken or Tracey for Purchase (816) 221-1844
I have 12 sets in stock already converted to 6.5 SAUM with the Seating stem changed out and the Decaping rod changed to 6.5 Sizer button come with both the 2.90 and.295 bushings, and Comp seater with VLD Stem!
they are $278 + $12 Shipping
Call Ken or Tracey for Purchase (816) 221-1844
George any specific reason for the switch from a 0.291 to 0.290 bushing? Just curious, thanks.
Gents,
After sizing with the 295 bushing and 264 mandrel expansion, I only come with with a case length of 2.016. Is this normal with the Nosler 7mm brass conversion? Thanks!
After sizing with the 295 bushing and 264 mandrel expansion, I only come with with a case length of 2.016. Is this normal with the Nosler 7mm brass conversion? Thanks!
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Anyone using a RCBS seating die? I talked to their tech. RCBS tech service is great by the way excellent outfit. Gentleman be lives a 7 to 6.5 should work but could not confirm. Any fellas using the RCBS ?
I wouldn't get too hung up on bushing size, you'll probably want both. All depends on what neck tension you like, which partially depends on intended use of the gun. And it depends on how accurately you get your necks turned to the measurement you want, and how consistently you do it from batch to batch. I'm starting with a .290 bushing but will most likely use the .291 after fireforming in my target rifle, but will probably stick with a little more neck tension with the .290 in my hunting rig. The important thing is to have consistent neck tension.
Loaded
All loaded up and no one to play with. Still waiting on my two builds but got some loads for barrel break in/fireforming done up. Norma 7mm SAUM brass necked down with .295 bushing in the Redding Type S FL Bushing Die, expanded and neck turned with K&N turner to .015". Sized with a .290 bushing, loaded with 61gr H1000 over Fed 215M primers and topped with pointed 140 grain Berger Hybrids seated with the Wilson seating die.
All loaded up and no one to play with. Still waiting on my two builds but got some loads for barrel break in/fireforming done up. Norma 7mm SAUM brass necked down with .295 bushing in the Redding Type S FL Bushing Die, expanded and neck turned with K&N turner to .015". Sized with a .290 bushing, loaded with 61gr H1000 over Fed 215M primers and topped with pointed 140 grain Berger Hybrids seated with the Wilson seating die.
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FYI...
With the Whidden Die set, you will still need a separate resizer die to neck down the 7mm brass.
With the Whidden Die set, you will still need a separate resizer die to neck down the 7mm brass.
Even with the whidden bushing die set? I thought you could just change out bushing and size 300 or 7 saum brass down
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have the whidden die. Just waiting on some bushings. But I'm operating under just using the .295, turn, then .291. I guess I'll know in a few days. The whidden die showed up 4 day after ordering. Taking longer to get bushings
Still short seater. Any idea if the redding 300 saum and the 6.5 vld seater will work? The redding 7saum seater appears to be out of stock every where.
Still short seater. Any idea if the redding 300 saum and the 6.5 vld seater will work? The redding 7saum seater appears to be out of stock every where.
6.5 SAUM is a cheater cartridge if there ever was one!
I got the high score at our last long range match with mine. Getting both hits on the 1080Y and all four hits on the 951Y. It just amazes me how easy it is to hit stuff with a 140 Berger hybrid going 3125fps!!!
I took my airgun friend, "a state champion FT shooter", out for a couple long range outings recently too. Previously he hadn't shot much past 300Y with a centerfire. On the first outing with me dialing for drop and drift for him, he hit a rock a foot tall/3 feet wide at 1014Y on the first shot. The next time out we brought along some 223's with 69 grainers for comparison. It was windy that day, 10-15 mph. The 223's didn't do too bad out to 450Y but past that it was really hard to hit the steel. In the same conditions with the 6.5 SAUM we didn't miss. 603Y was our farthest target and the three targets were a little bigger for the distance because we were primarily going to be shooting 223's. No challenge at all the 6.5 SAUM though!
I got the high score at our last long range match with mine. Getting both hits on the 1080Y and all four hits on the 951Y. It just amazes me how easy it is to hit stuff with a 140 Berger hybrid going 3125fps!!!
I took my airgun friend, "a state champion FT shooter", out for a couple long range outings recently too. Previously he hadn't shot much past 300Y with a centerfire. On the first outing with me dialing for drop and drift for him, he hit a rock a foot tall/3 feet wide at 1014Y on the first shot. The next time out we brought along some 223's with 69 grainers for comparison. It was windy that day, 10-15 mph. The 223's didn't do too bad out to 450Y but past that it was really hard to hit the steel. In the same conditions with the 6.5 SAUM we didn't miss. 603Y was our farthest target and the three targets were a little bigger for the distance because we were primarily going to be shooting 223's. No challenge at all the 6.5 SAUM though!
I too got the die set 3 days after. However, I contacted Carrie at Whidden, who informed me I needed an additional die for forming.
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SPECR. Did they happen to tell you why you needed the separate die? I most likely donated a case to the cause but I just sized a piece of brass with a 315. Smallest I have and meant for a 7mm. Sized the neck fine. Then kind of caved in the neck junction. That said, I'm using the wrong bushing. I'll repeat after I get the proper bushings
Did you end up buying another die? Or have you run unmodified cases through the whidden.
Did you end up buying another die? Or have you run unmodified cases through the whidden.
I already have the Redding sizing die and the 295 bushing.
As for the reason, She didn't give specifics other than not to size down 7mm brass with the 6.5 die or it will ruin the die. I also was told they could make me a custom forming die for an additional cost.
As for the reason, She didn't give specifics other than not to size down 7mm brass with the 6.5 die or it will ruin the die. I also was told they could make me a custom forming die for an additional cost.
Here is a great trimmer that has a Micrometer Adjuster. I Love it. I did send in the 6.5 saum case so you can order the 6.5 saum bushing now. Trim It Home
Here are some YouTube Videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpau0QPX2MA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEZhtg23dko
Here are some YouTube Videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpau0QPX2MA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEZhtg23dko
Attachments
This is some great info and I really appreciate you putting in the time to show us your tips and tricks. If you ever feel up to it, if you haven't already, I would really find good use out of a full thread on neck turning. I don't even know what it is/does aside from what you touched on at the beginning of this thread. Thanks again.
6br has a good writeup on neck turning there are some decent youtube videos out there too. It's not difficult. I would suggest getting quality neck turning tools. Sinclair, K&M etc.
Oh and for those following this. Whidden did confirm that you do indeed need a separate die for initial forming. Kind of wished I would have known this prior to purchase. Especially since no commercial 6.5 brass is avaliable. Still curious as to what kind of damage a pic of brass can do to a piece of hardened steel
Oh and for those following this. Whidden did confirm that you do indeed need a separate die for initial forming. Kind of wished I would have known this prior to purchase. Especially since no commercial 6.5 brass is avaliable. Still curious as to what kind of damage a pic of brass can do to a piece of hardened steel
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So I have a question for you guys prepping brass. I bought some copper creek prepped brass (rem 300 saum) and the first load I worked up shot excellent well under .5 moa. The brass I prepped the same way (at least I thought I did) didn't do as hot .75 moa at best on the first firing. Have you seen a accuracy increase after fire forming the brass? I know the gun will shoot and it still shot well today just wasn't impressed with my 100 yard group.
It's the typed word so I'm not sure I hear sarcasm or not. I'm waiting on the correct bushings, and I'll give it a go myself. My guess is the damage they are referring to might be to the neck of the die, or for simpler description. The hole in the die. It measures .298. So a 7mm piece of brass is in affect presizing on the die itself. I think this would be a bigger issue with 300 brass. I'm guessing you are fine. But your brass will tell you that
I can't tell you just yet, but my first 50 rounds of prepped brass and then loaded ammo was not very good with runout. My group sizes (while starting barrel break-in/load development) were in the 1 moa area. As I began to zone in on a load the size was .5 ish. Having just reloaded that fired brass my runout was significantly better at .002 on average. Where the first group was around .008 or more. So I'm expecting the rounds to group better with this next firing. Hoping my barrel speeds up a bit as well.
Had to send my rifle back to GAP for some fixes, and hope to shoot it next weekend for results.
Thanks for the reply. I have about 60 more rounds loaded up that I need to shoot. I'm hoping for better when I reload them. Sounds like yours will do better biased off your runout keep us posted.
Any of you guys noticing a lot of copper fouling after ~50 rounds? I'm not even sure if the copper is affecting accuracy, as I'm still chasing down a few other variables that may be affecting accuracy. Its' just something I noticed after two range sessions of 50-75 rounds each.
I shoot 300-400 without cleaning quite often! Getting single digit SD's as well. Copper is always present as long as it does not build up it makes no difference.
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Thanks for the info George. It was more of a curious observation. I'm not a big proponent of cleaning and actually neither of my competition rifles (6.5 Creedmoor and .260Rem) have had anything down the bore but bullets in nearly 500 rounds.
I'm really enjoying this cartridge, just trying to square away some minor accuracy issues with the rifle.
well I just finished reading all 281 posts. lots and lots of info, some conflicting but most in conjunction.
here is what I gather is a good loading process, and links to some stuff that is in stock.
first buy this (or brass you can find): Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Box of 25
Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Mag Box
then buy this: Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum (RSAUM)
Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set 7mm Remington Short Action
size brass with this: Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 295 Diameter Titanium Nitride
Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 295 Diameter Titanium Nitride
Turn necks with this: Micro-Adjustable Neck Turner - Non-Cutting Carbide Pilot, Carbide Cutter Power Adapter, Shell Holder
https://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/...arbide-cutter-power-adapter_shell-holder.html
insert this in sizer die: Redding Type S Bushing Die Decapping Rod Assembly #11263 (6.5x47mm Lapua)
Redding Type S Bushing Die Decapping Rod Assembly #11263 (6.5x47mm
then size with this: Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 290 Diameter Titanium Nitride
Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 290 Diameter Titanium Nitride
not sure if the VLD seater stem is needed for the 140 Hybrids (didn't need it in my .260 and it worked fine) also not sure why you would use the 7mm stem and not a 6.5mm stem (don't remember reading the clarification on that), but it is in stock at sinclairs.
Redding Competition Long VLD Seater Stems, 7 mm : Redding Competition Long VLD Seater Stems | Sinclair Intl
all that + primer + powder + bullets = badass cartridge that you will want to kick someone in the dick if they try to scarf your brass at a match!
here is what I gather is a good loading process, and links to some stuff that is in stock.
first buy this (or brass you can find): Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Box of 25
Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Mag Box
then buy this: Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum (RSAUM)
Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set 7mm Remington Short Action
size brass with this: Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 295 Diameter Titanium Nitride
Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 295 Diameter Titanium Nitride
Turn necks with this: Micro-Adjustable Neck Turner - Non-Cutting Carbide Pilot, Carbide Cutter Power Adapter, Shell Holder
https://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/...arbide-cutter-power-adapter_shell-holder.html
insert this in sizer die: Redding Type S Bushing Die Decapping Rod Assembly #11263 (6.5x47mm Lapua)
Redding Type S Bushing Die Decapping Rod Assembly #11263 (6.5x47mm
then size with this: Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 290 Diameter Titanium Nitride
Redding Neck Sizer Die Bushing 290 Diameter Titanium Nitride
not sure if the VLD seater stem is needed for the 140 Hybrids (didn't need it in my .260 and it worked fine) also not sure why you would use the 7mm stem and not a 6.5mm stem (don't remember reading the clarification on that), but it is in stock at sinclairs.
Redding Competition Long VLD Seater Stems, 7 mm : Redding Competition Long VLD Seater Stems | Sinclair Intl
all that + primer + powder + bullets = badass cartridge that you will want to kick someone in the dick if they try to scarf your brass at a match!
I think you have a good handle on it.
One thing that seems to becoming evident is the need for the slightly larger Tula LR Magnum primers. It seems the primer pockets in all the brass are going south by the 6th loading. When it takes this much work to get the brass right, 20 loadings vs 6 is a big difference. So when/if those become available you may want to snag some. And then tell me where you found them
One thing that seems to becoming evident is the need for the slightly larger Tula LR Magnum primers. It seems the primer pockets in all the brass are going south by the 6th loading. When it takes this much work to get the brass right, 20 loadings vs 6 is a big difference. So when/if those become available you may want to snag some. And then tell me where you found them
Tried turning some Norma 7 saum brass. I'm not new to turning brass but I've never necked down using bushing dies before. The cuts seem to be uneven on the shoulders. I can turn the entire neck but the shoulder ends up being cut deeper in some spots than others. Here's an example of one piece:
No expert here by any means. I didn't turn that far into my shoulders, but did see some unevenness on my brass. After shooting them the first time it all seems to even out when fire formed. Run-out was much better as were the group sizes during my second firing as well. FYI.
I'm glad to hear your group sizes were better on the second firing, I'm about ready to load my batch of 100 for the second time and hope mine results are the same as yours after fire forming the brass to the chamber.
ok so FL sizer gets the 6.5x47 decapping rod, the seater die stays the same size and just contacts the bullet closer to the ogive instead of closer to the tip?
First 50 rounds I was just trying to break in and start zoning in on a load. With the second batch I think I found my load: (5 shots at 100)
First groups were running .75 to 1 moa on average - had a couple go bigger. But the second batch with the fire formed brass was grouping half the size of the first batch. My velocity was still lower than expected, but I just saw George post that after the first 200 rounds to expect 80 to 100 fps velocity gains - so I'm hoping that is true in my case as well.
The decapping rod is the same but you would use a 6.5mm button on the decap rod instead of the 7mm. If you are neck turning and using the Type S die (or any bushing die) IMO you wouldn't use a sizing button at all. You would just use the decapping pin retainer that comes with the set. The retainer is small enough that it doesn't touch the case. If you are not neck turning you would use a 6.5mm sizing button on the decap rod.
Yes, the VLD stem contacts the bullet further down the ogive nearer the case neck. Non-VLD stems also tend to bottom out on the nose of some VLD's and not touch the ogive at all. VLD stems are thinner walled than non-VLD stems and have a habit of cracking if you try to seat with excessive neck tension. Usually not a problem but it happens.
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ok got it. Now my next question would be if you guys are claiming that group size shrinks after fire forming your brass does that mean you have a separate die just for neck sizing? If you are still running the FL sizer wouldn't the dimensions be the same as the first forming?
my rifle won't be done for some time, but while I wait I figured I could start forming brass so there is no delay when the rifle shows up!
300 pieces of 7 SAUM brass under careful watch of the vicious guard dog..
my rifle won't be done for some time, but while I wait I figured I could start forming brass so there is no delay when the rifle shows up!
300 pieces of 7 SAUM brass under careful watch of the vicious guard dog..
On my first batch I FL resized/sized necks before turning the necks (and into the shoulder.) Not done on the second firing - so dimensionally it was different. I can say with certainty that the run-out on the second batch was 6 - 8 thousands better, with the second batch running on average 2 -3 thousands variance. Maybe I was having a better day as well, but I didn't have any groups like I did the one above and I had several approaching that level on my second firing. It was just my experience and was happy about it - cause I didn't have a lot of confidence after the first batch.
Good info and NICE shooting, believe me it will get even better i think. I would be happy as well that's a winner! Congrats! 2.855" what bullet?
I'll post the full load in the load thread once I'm convinced it's my go to. Need to shoot some more of them to be sure and then take them to distance...
I only have the 130 H VLD's at this point. 63 gr of H1000 w/ Rem brass and Fed 215m primers. The seating depth I think that works is 2.855 COAL. George told me the lands were at 2.870 as my gun was done with the new reamer. The groups didn't like anything until I got to around 2.860.
That's where I'm at so far - unfortunately probably another 3 weeks until I have time to shoot again... Hope that helps.
I noticed it but I've seen far worse!
243 WSSM had the worst necks I've ever seen, like almost .003" thicker on one side than the other.
Even Lapua brass can be .0015 thicker on one side of the neck on a bad one occasionally.
People don't realize how off necks can be until they start neck turning.
steve are you seeing the uneven turning onto the shoulder too?
I'm not as concerned about the neck as I am that the shoulder contact with the cutter is so uneven..
I turned my brass when it was still 30 caliber/300RSUAM, but going off of memory I don't recall very much unevenness at the shoulder. The cutter on my K&M cuts a divot out of the shoulder if I don't adjust it perfectly so I was right at the bottom of the neck.
Thanks Steve,
when i I turn my necks one side of the brass gets down to just the bottom of the neck, while the other starts cutting into and into the shoulder.. If I were to even it out it would be cutting way down into the shoulder....just curious if anyone else was seeing this.
im guessing it's because of the high runout from necking down... I get anywhere from .004"-.020" of TIR on my concentricity guage on the necks after necking down 7 saum brass with the .295" bushing...
when i I turn my necks one side of the brass gets down to just the bottom of the neck, while the other starts cutting into and into the shoulder.. If I were to even it out it would be cutting way down into the shoulder....just curious if anyone else was seeing this.
im guessing it's because of the high runout from necking down... I get anywhere from .004"-.020" of TIR on my concentricity guage on the necks after necking down 7 saum brass with the .295" bushing...
