Carlos's white feather

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was rather entertaining. You guys should take it easy on donttrytorun, sounds like he could take the rust off a can of Dinty Moore at 5000m using naval gunfire called in with smoke signals. </div></div>
So you doubt I and others like me were and are trained in calling fire missions for mortars/air/arty/naval gunfire? In the school or after while serving in the Fleet?
Marine S/S are required to have a high level of intelligence. That sort of thing is just...fun. No intellectual challenge for us.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donttry

Listen Child, there are many here who have you beat by a long shot.

Don’t know why I’m playing your games but I got your little pencil dick beat if you got a yard stick (or micrometer in your case) here goes.

</div></div>
Keilbasa swinging, to be exact.
If you send me a valid credit card number I'll send you photos.
I'll even include a White Feather in the pictures, for a little extra.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Carlos's white feather

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[mexicanmatch]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I thought this topic was abt the white feather Carlos had. Now it's gone to shit.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Wow, this thread really took a turn for the worse. I was going to post a reply a few days back, but didn't want to bother wading into the petty bickering. After what went down last night, I'm not going to remain silent any longer.

Donttrytorun, 8541 here (2d MARDIV SSBC 3-95), additionally graduated the Urban and Advanced courses, along with combat time in Liberia and Afghanistan. Was also STA 3/6 Chief Scout and Plt Sgt until I picked up SSgt and was shifted over to CAAT. I think I have the background to speak up here.

Most of the BTDT Scout Snipers I've known are quiet professionals, always interested in learning a new trick to better themselves and their team, and not trash talkers. Note I didn't say ALL, just most, as there's exceptions to everything. There's been some I've checked in the past that that thought they were bad asses because they passed the basic course. I'd show them pretty quick that they didn't know shit and that getting their Hog's Tooth was just the start of a long road of learning.

The snipers I know, served with and led in battle were just glad to be there, to have the opportunity and skills to support the real bread and butter of the Marine Corps, the 0311 in the assault or defense, and tried to remain humble and hard working.

I agree with you that the field craft and supporting arms is vital to the Scout Sniper on the ground. Who taught me those skills? Army and Navy artillery/NGF forward observers and Navy/USMC/USAF pilots at the Special Operations Spotter Course in Little Creek, VA. I didn't look down on them for being something other than what I was, I respected the hell out of them and their skills. I got pretty damn good at calling in supporting arms because of them teaching me the advanced stuff and tricks of the trade, not from any sniper that taught me the basics of a polar mission.

I've also shot some minor (Divison and lower) matches, and I learned a lot about marksmanship while working with/for distinguished shooters as an 8531 at Parris Island. My marksmanship and instructor skills would be nothing without what I learned from those men. We'd rib each other too, as I'd tell them to talk to me when they could make a wind call without 20 flags to look at, and they'd tell me to take my shots without artificial support before I spoke up. All in good fun and we taught each other a lot of valuable information.

Inter-service and inter-MOS rivalry is fun at times, so long as everyone remembers we're all on the same side and each and every one of us have something to learn from the others. Sure, I've ribbed the squids, Army dogs, and flyboys at times, and I get called a dumb jarhead while we argue over who's turn it was to buy the next round. Again, all in good fun and always within the lines of respect.

Want an inside look at the origins of modern day USMC sniper school? Read here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23437264/The-Start-of-Modern-Marine-Corps-Scout-Sniper-Instructor-School

Funny how it was the teams that supported and led the efforts to get it off the ground, and how they learned so much in terms of fieldcraft from the Canadians. Something tells me there wasn't a whole lot of contempt for the team shooters on groomed ranges back then.

Back in '99 I had the pleasure and honor of hanging out with Chuck Mawhinney while NOMAD and I was shooting a sniper comp in Mississippi. I picked that man's brain for every bit of info I could, but one of the most valuable things he taught me is to remember that we support the grunts, right down to the rifleman in that water filled fighting hole. He also said to be humble, be helpful, and learn everything you can from anyone willing to impart knowledge onto you.

I also met Col Cuddy (original SSIS OIC from '77 mentioned in the article linked above) when he was the guest speaker at my advanced course graduation in '01. He was a very humble man and we were honored to have him take time from his day to come speak with us. His father's original WWII sniper certificate hung on the wall in the school house, probably still does. He made the point to us to be humble and strive hard to be our best in supporting our unit's efforts, and to impart every last bit of knowledge we could onto our men.

Do what you want though, we all make our own bed here. I won't lower myself to shit talking, but I think my opinion is quite clear. I know I learn a lot from Kraig's and Gunfighter's posts all the time, along with Lowlight, Lindy, Sinister, and additionally many other shooters who have zero MIL/LEO experience at all. I respect them for what they have done in the past and still do today, and only hope and strive to be the same way myself. Of course, I don't take myself too seriously either....

Semper Fidelis.

Arctic, sorry for helping out with the thread jack. I have no idea where Gunny Hathcock's feather is, but you're right that it belongs in the National Museum of the Marine Corps right alongside Chuck Mawhinney's M40.

 

[gray1974]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Damn good post!

 

[cooper_257]

Re: Carlos's white feather

thanks for the great post

 

[SniperCJ]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Geez, Im sorry Ive been missing this thread. Quite entertaining.

Donttry = whatatool

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Everyone understands that looking into ones eyes while having a conversation, the intent of words is always forefront. Some have the ability to read between the lines an decipher, fact from fiction w/o eye contact.
The jest of a post prior to going to shit, is always a clue as to intent.
Schools, no matter what kind they are have a final test to see how the "Instructors" are doing, which is based upon the students final grade. Ie did the student excel in area X over area Y do to prior ability's? Are the instructors lacking their tasks, which directly equate to the students. Is instructor Z the best for this block of instruction or should we move him sideways or out of the course? Are we tasking the wrong students, or is the course lacking based upon out dated fed back. Are we properly preparing the students we are receiving, or is that selection posses lacking?

Then you have the students version, and as always the ability's are unmatched between same. In all final tests there is always the top 50% and the bottom 50%. Just because one may have taken a course an snagged paper does not in reality mean they are fit, for a dead run right from the gate. Some will not achieve the top students ability back when, until many years of making the most basic of mistakes.
Some will never achieve their goal do to their own feet, but they still have paper.
But when it's all said an done, those that partake a path, either are on it because of a push, self wants, or look at me.
This site has every element, from top to bottom. I've never met a person I did not learn something from, but I've had doubts about some,...

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Well, if one certain individual is done stroking his ego and thinking he is better than anyone else I will ask......


Did Carlo's white feather even survive his box mine incident, or even the boonie hat it was attached to?????

 

[Maggot]

Re: Carlos's white feather


Narcissists may seem to love themselves, but a new study finds that narcissistic self-aggrandizement may hide deep feelings of inferiority.

According to the new research, people who are narcissistic are likely to tell psychologists that they feel good about themselves. But when the psychologists trick these narcissists into thinking they're hooked up to a working lie-detector test, the truth comes out and the narcissists admit to lower self-esteem.

"This suggests that individuals with high levels of narcissism may be inflating their self-esteem," study researcher Erin Myers, a psychologist at Western Carolina University, told LiveScience. "In other words, narcissistic individuals may not really believe they are as great as they claim to be."

The whole truth

Although narcissism is possibly best known as narcissistic personality disorder, an extreme, life-disrupting form of self-love, the trait appears in varying degrees in psychologically healthy people. People who are higher in the narcissistic trait profess to a grandiose self-appreciation, but studies had turned up mixed results as to whether these positive feelings are genuine or a façade. [Top 10 Controversial Psychiatric Disorders]

To find out, Myers and her colleagues had to use a little bit of deception. They recruited 71 undergraduate women from the University of Southern Mississippi and asked them to fill out questionnaires designed to rate their self-esteem and narcissism.

Later, the students went to Myers' lab, where they filled out more psychological evaluations and then were told that they'd be hooked up to lie-detector equipment so that the psychologists could tell if they were telling the truth. The students were then asked to agree or disagree with statements such as, "I take a positive attitude toward myself."

"I played the role of the researcher and always wore a white lab coat," Myers said. "We even went so far as to apply skin conductance paste when hooking participants up to the equipment. We wanted to make the situation as believable as possible."

All of the students were hooked up to the equipment, but some were told that it was only for training purposes and that the "lie detector" would be turned off before the study started. Others went through the entire procedure believing that they were being monitored for truthfulness.

Maintaining a facade

The results revealed an interesting schism: For women who scored low in narcissism, being "monitored" by the lie detector made no difference in their reported self-esteem. But women with high narcissism reported more love of themselves when they thought the lie-detecting machine was off. When they believed that the researchers knew if they were telling the truth, their self-esteem responses were significantly lower.

The findings suggest that narcissists are covering for a deep-seated sense of inferiority, Myers said, though the researchers aren't yet sure whether this façade is for themselves or for the benefit of others.

"Narcissists may be trying to bolster their own feelings of self-worth by claiming to like themselves," Myers said. "Another possibility is that narcissists may be trying to influence the way that others perceive them. It may also be some combination of both."

The researchers will report their work in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Research in Personality.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Carlos's white feather

SD - yes, mentioned in the book that he had it, he was riding on top (although another book says that's the worst place to ride in that situation).


Kraig - pretty impressive resume!!!

 

[Tactical]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Carlos became a legend because of what he did and how he went about acting, before, during and after. He was a clas act and rpide of all US Military not just USMC. He continued to help others until he was so sick he could not do so. We all owe him a debt of gratitude.

The way this thread has degraded is an insult to his memory.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I want to apologize to the forum for my part in muddying up this topic about a great man.

The moron just kept pushing and I lost it, which makes me no better than he is.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

You did not muddy up anything, the sole blame is on his shoulders. Nothing was ask of him, pointed towards him ect. He is the one who came thru the door looking for a fight, which is what he's been looking for from day one. Just read his first post and a few others, self revealing 200%.
Even if there's paper, this thread has shut many a door that may have been unlocked or open, before.
Problem is, there is a difference between this site an many others, do to guys that won't set back an play nice when something won't pass the most basic sniff test.

I don't like the fact that it came about, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either. Every body here can read, and all can see where an how it started on their own. Sad it came in a thread asking a question about a great man, but we would not be who we are if we just sat back an allowed shit like that to rule this place either.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Carlos's white feather

If I have done anything to slander this great man, Mister Carlos Hathcock, then I apologize.

Kraig, and a few others, I see no need for apology. Especially considering what you've done. Then and now.

The topics of "arrogance/narcissism" and "Carlos Hathcock" should NEVER be in the same sentence. Am I right? (is that a double-entendre?)

Again, ArcticLight, regards to you, your query, and your thread.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Kraig and GF my comments where not directed at you

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kraig and GF my comments where not directed at you </div></div>
Mike,
No need, we knew who it was directed towards. Just Kraig being a officer, has to be more forgiving than the enlisted, who has to work for a living.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The radio is the most destructive weapon a Marine S/S team has.
It's called teamwork. Everybody working to accomplish the mission, to destroy the enemy or his will to resist.
I was a legacy of Hathcock and Land. There are others now who have taken his, and my place in the Corps. That was the idea. That the abilities not be neglected and lost. </div></div>

That part right there - all 3- WELL PUT!

I worked ComSec, and distributed CEOI's, auth codes, etc as my primary job to the same Arty, A-10 squadrons, and in the case of BrimFrost 1989-to some ships for the Navy. I was honored to have done my duty

I wired up the very first STU-III's to Ft Wainwright a week or two prior to Panama (That's how I knew something big was coming)...vital commo for everyone to make decisions on.
So as you said, everyone plays a part.

Well it is all one big team, and those guys on the New Jersey in 1968/1969 - man what a ride - the ULTIMATE sniper shot , 18 miles away...That should count!!

I did do some DM tra ining though and learned a trick or two about lying in the snow at 20 below for 8 hours - it can be done...
</div></div>

Brimfrost 1989, that was the year that they had to put it on hold because up around Fairbanks it was -60 plus, I remember that. Anchorage got down into the -30s and -40s.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Nice to see there is somebody around here who can not only shoot, but learned he archane skills of adjusting Air/Arty/ and naval gunfire. Unfortunately there are some of the opinion that a radio is of little or no use to a "Sniper".
But then, that's not what we are, is it.
They didn't have a Basic and then Team Leader sourse before. Every prospect was required to learn everything. I suspect with the increase in the T/O for S/S in units that was a tradeoff. Back in the day it was 8 billets in a Bn, and Reg had authorization for a 20 man Plt but it wasn't activated and wasn't staffed.
Now it's a Plt per Bn, right? I remember there were a couple events in Iraq that small groups of S/S walked into shit or screwed the pooch, and two or even more were needed in the enviroment they workd in, for security. having only half with a M16A2 and getting into a firefight at night in the open sand didn't go well.
Some guys just don't get a joke, and can't handle getting their balls busted in good fun. maybe it's due to Tertiary Syphilis they picked up back in "The Nam". or Alzheimer's, or booze.
Maybe Fetal Alcohol Sydrome, or Mommy dropped them on their head, I don't know.
I suspect they were always Special Ed, which is why the Army has schools only two or three weeks long (Recondo) that try to teach things every Marine with a year in the grunts would know, like Land Nav and Patrolling.
Or a Sniper School that is only 3 weeks long. That may be adequate for a cop who might shoot a junkie with a knife at less than 100 yards from a skylined position on a rooftop, or a woman holding a baby in the doorway of a cabin, but not in "our" world.
Christ, seems every school the army has, except ranger school, is only 3 weeks long. Even the Special Forces Scuba school is only 4!
Must be to compensate for a high rate of ADD. Short attention Spans, and getting frustrated and angry with a flood of information for months on end, and then being expected to recall and use that would cause serious self esteem damage.
Got so bad they gave everybody in the Army a Ranger beret just for showing up, to make them "feel elite" even if they weren't.
and after 3 weeks, you get a badge to wear, or another patch, none of which the Corps ever recognizes or allows the wear, with good reason. We don't need the ego boost.


And some guys just hate getting their balls busted in good fun.

I'm not a guy who is gonna sit at the feet of a old dog and worship them. I got my Boar's Tooth as High Shooter. I was and am a Marine and a S/S, always will be, and I will walk proud and talk loud to anybody who tries to equate themselves or poses, especially when they have no fucking idea of what is actually involved in that, and how much is expected of us. How often can a couple of men change the outcome of a battle?


Some guys just aren't smart enough to get the joke. That's one of the great things about serving with Marine S/S and recon people. They are fun because they are smart enough to have a sense of humor instead of feigning indignation because they can't get it. And since everybody there carries sharp knives, laughing is always a good first choice.
Seems that some guys would be better off in the "BulkFuelBladder.com"

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Schools, no matter what kind they are have a final test to see how the "Instructors" are doing, which is based upon the students final grade. Ie did the student excel in area X over area Y do to prior ability's? Are the instructors lacking their tasks, which directly equate to the students. Is instructor Z the best for this block of instruction or should we move him sideways or out of the course? Are we tasking the wrong students, or is the course lacking based upon out dated fed back. Are we properly preparing the students we are receiving, or is that selection posses lacking?

</div></div>
See, when that idea became common, that if the student failed to learn the instructor failed to teach, was assine. When men were selected from a highly qualified group of volunteers, and passed a long, demanding school with a 35% or higher fail rate, then being a graduate of it actually meant you had accomplished something and mastered the material. Most of the schools I went to, with the exception of the NCO School at leJeune, were like that. But at that school if a student failed a test (<70% drafe) they gave it to him again, and when he failed that the instructor sat next to him and fed him the correct answers. We graduated 51 out of 52, and the missing guy was UA (AWOL for you Army Pukes) for 3 days before they dropped him!
I felt dirty, and violated, after that graduation. Half the guys shouldn't have been there. I hated LeJeune. FMF Pac was so much better.
Some students, even screened ones, just aren't able to handle the intellectual, physical, or emotional demands of a hard school. Good. Do the SEALs blame the instructors if a prospect quits or fails? Special Forces? Rangers?
If they can't measure up to the requirements and master the material, then pack your shit and go back where you came from, because those who finish know what it means, and those who didn't do to. Peers, subordinates, and superiors can be confident in graduates. Lowering the standard and minimizing tests is not the answer.Make that shit hard, because lives depend on it. It's not about how many graduate, or in some cases about how many tabs, badges, or berets they distribute, it's about quality.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Brimfrost 1989, that was the year that they had to put it on hold because up around Fairbanks it was -60 plus, I remember that. Anchorage got down into the -30s and -40s. </div></div>

Was actually because of this and the Huey that I mentioned, but ya 67 below zero out in the Tanana Flats, after the C130 we did a safety standdown for 3 days.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Don'tTry -

In MI we had a similiar school, intellectually based of course.

33s school at Ft Devens, 70% dropout/failure rate.

It was the elite of electronic repair so to speak.

I graduated from there in November 1984 top 10%.

Then I went back to my reserve unit and re-enlisted for active duty and got stuck as a 31V (Commo puke)

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carlos became a legend because of what he did and how he went about acting, before, during and after. He was a clas act and rpide of all US Military not just USMC. He continued to help others until he was so sick he could not do so. We all owe him a debt of gratitude.

The way this thread has degraded is an insult to his memory. </div></div>

I just wanted to know what happened to the feather.

Imagine that.

 

[gray1974]

Re: Carlos's white feather

^^^^^
That will teach you to ask a simple question. I hope you have learned your lesson.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just wanted to know what happened to the feather.

Imagine that. </div></div>

I told you, I will sell it to you with his genuine bush cover. How many would you like?
If you buy three I'll throw in a genuine set of Hathcock's soiled underwear. Boxers or Briefs, your choice, because I like you and know you are freaky like that.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I know its not worth a plug nickle to anyone but me, but I still have my cover from RVN. (I'm the second from the right). Same hat but in my wife's cedar chest now.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Carlos's white feather

LOL, I work on a Navy base and found a beautiful Seagull feather, strapped it to my monitor back in 1999 (Round about February of that year), where it's been ever since - looks just like Carlos's feather..

That one is now at home since the layoff but now that I'm on another navy base I found another feature just like it...

We have plenty of Seagulls so maybe I'll get into the white feather business.

Holy crap, thanks for the idea!

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Kraig - I'm a HUGE HUGE history buff - would be HONORED to see some of your vietnam pics. Step-dad sent me all he has from DA-nang - he worked on the RU aircraft from 68-69...(Same MOS as my first Army job, 33c)

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just wanted to know what happened to the feather.

Imagine that. </div></div>

I told you, I will sell it to you with his genuine bush cover. How many would you like?
If you buy three I'll throw in a genuine set of Hathcock's soiled underwear. Boxers or Briefs, your choice, because I like you and know you are freaky like that. </div></div>

You know it is damn near impossible to give you the respect of someone named Richard when you are clearly a DICK!!!!

At this point in your ego trip I doubt any Honorable Marine would piss down your throat if your guts were on fire!

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Buy the truth is Hathcock would laugh at people who wanted to make a shrine of him, and took the fool's money when the opportunity presented.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Moved

 

[arborpro]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I've had the pleasure on more than a few occasions to shoot competitively in high power and long Range matches in Quantico and many other locations throughout the USA/Canada in the past. I had an opportunity to visit shortly in general conversations with Carlos III on the line and in the pits. he has been nothing but a professional, as with all service members along with the men and women of the marines, AMU and Guard teams I've had the pleasure to shoot with.

I have thought but never spoke with Carlos III about the exploits of his father though I'm sure many people do and have wanted to converse with him about those events. It would embarrass me as much as him, I would presume to talk of it. In my own thoughts I'm sure he feels as though there is certain persona he feels he must live up to.

I look at the shooter and why I shoot. we all have something in common. and when I go to matches I see many of the same people I've seen for many years. some do it for duty and some don't. none that I've meant brag of time in the field. but do it for the camaraderie and the passion for shooting/accuracy of like minds on the range.

I have read the book about Carlos and in some way's it may have inspired my passion for shooting. I pray I never will have to use those skills ever in the field but respect all those who have performed it it the name of USA.

I am positive on the range some day you will see Carlos III. and I will bet in a coversation in the pits, he would love to tell you a story about a white feather his father used to have in has hat.

I hope I'm on the next target over.....

Arborpro

 

[gray1974]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just wanted to know what happened to the feather.

Imagine that. </div></div>

I told you, I will sell it to you with his genuine bush cover. How many would you like?
If you buy three I'll throw in a genuine set of Hathcock's soiled underwear. Boxers or Briefs, your choice, because I like you and know you are freaky like that. </div></div>
I have always had a great deal of respect for anyone in the USMC sniper program. I now have contempt for at least one. Assuming you are actually what you say you are.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always had a great deal of respect for anyone in the USMC sniper program. I now have contempt for at least one. Assuming you are actually what you say you are.</div></div>

If you believe he is a Marine, let alone a sniper, I got some ocean front property near Cheyenne to sell you.

He's nothing but a little snot nose kid trying to impress his Mall crew.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always had a great deal of respect for anyone in the USMC sniper program. I now have contempt for at least one. Assuming you are actually what you say you are.</div></div>

If you believe he is a Marine, let alone a sniper, I got some ocean front property near Cheyenne to sell you.

He's nothing but a little snot nose kid trying to impress his Mall crew.
</div></div>
Sounds like somebody needs his adult diaper changed. Those rashes get to itching, and cause irritability.
Fortunately I don't need your approval to validate me, especially since you 'don't think" somebody needs to go to a Sniper School to be a sniper, and thinks all that silly stuff like fieldcraft, and patrolling, radio procedure, and I guess camoflage too, is for infantrymen. You know what we call a guy who didn't go to a Sniper School and calls himself a Sniper?
I also don't need tabs and pins to wear from 3 week schools. If they were any longer, I guess you would have had your period, and couldn't PT, huh?
I am amazed you never had your balls busted before, but I guess that's a guy thing, so you wouldn't understand.
Go ahead and doubt my authenticity. It is far out beyond your vast realm of life experience.
Call me a pencil dick again and I'm gonna have to cut you. Those are the rules. I don't have any choice. Gotta follow them or it will be anarchy, and we can't allow that.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call me a pencil dick again and I'm gonna have to cut you. Those are the rules. I don't have any choice. Gotta follow them or it will be anarchy, and we can't allow that.</div></div>

Oh darn, I missed that part..............I'm scared now.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Carlos's white feather

There's ball busting and then there's being insulting. You sir are the latter. For the record I'm not even doubting your authenticity of being a graduate of SSS, I just think you're an asshole. It's one thing to be an asshole to punk ass kids or Kool-Aid drinking shitheads, it's another to be an asshole to fellow veterans.

As for splitting up the course, that is not the case. The basic course is what you went through and its overall structure is the same today as when GySgt Hathcock and Col Cuddy wrote it. There's just a little added here and a little taken away there to adapt to today's warfare and tactics. The advanced course is the instructor course held at Quantico once a year, only they assume you already know how to teach and it focuses on employment and advanced training techniques for us to take back to our platoons. It is made for and attended by instructors and Chief Scouts/Plt Sgts. The urban course is a three week course put on by SOTG as part of the MSPF training package for the R&S platoon of that element. It's a MEU(SOC) thing, after your day, thanks to Gen Gray. There's also the mountain package which I never had the opportunity to attend, as I was deployed elsewhere when my platoon went to Bridgeport. There might be other courses now as I've been out for a while, but those are the main ones when I was in the platoons.

I'm still trying to figure out who said snipers don't need knowledge in fieldcraft, supporting arms and radio usage. I'm just not seeing it. As for the headshot comments, we were taught to never attempt them beyond 200yds. A 1moa M40A1 and M118 ammo is only capable of doing so much.

Again Arctic, my apologies for the continued thread jack and this will be the last time I deviate from the original question on the table.

On topic, the comment about GySgt Hathcock not wanting a "shrine" is probably quite true (never met him personally), but I'm sure the same holds true to 99% of the veterans out there. Just because they wouldn't want that kind of personal attention to their exploits doesn't mean that we shouldn't memorialize them and their service. Most of the men we look up to are reluctant heroes. They would have preferred to be sitting at home with their families rather than fighting in a war and they want no personal recognition at all, but that is no reason to ignore what they did. Quite frankly I feel it is reason even more to bring their honor and courage to the forefront of the public's eye.

In a day and age where Disney, Hollywood, music and athletic stars steal all the headlines and attention, giving focus to true heroes is never a bad thing. I take my children to military museums, battlefields, NASA and the Smithsonian to try to show them the real reason our country is so great; because of simple men (and women) who did magnificent things. Without those kinds of places to give us a visual representation and education of how we got here, that would never be an easy task.

If I can get my daughter to look up to Amelia Earhart vs Brittney Spears, or my son to look up to Gen Omar Bradley over Eminem, I've done my job as a father.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You mentioned the SS being recon. Each Army BN had its own Recon Plt. which did the recon taske.

My unit only had a "sniper" one time that I remember, He came to us with a Modle 70 and didn't stay long. Don't remember why or what he did.

I guess I'm of the group that believes sniper schools should concentrate on Marksmanship. Field Craft, Recon, Patroling, calling for and directiing arty, is the infantryman's job.

When I went to sniper school (AMU) I discussed this with the instructors. Their thought was it was easier to teach a shooter to soldier, then teach a soldier to shoot.

I also don't believe you need to go to sniper school to be a sniper. </div></div>
Thought I should bring that to the top. A guy who didn't go to Sniper School isn't a Sniper. He's a schmuck in a tree or skylined on a rooftop with a rifle and a imminent expiration date.
That shit pulled my chain.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's ball busting and then there's being insulting. You sir are the latter. For the record I'm not even doubting your authenticity of being a graduate of SSS, I just think you're an asshole.
</div></div>
You should know I'm fun at parties, a great dancer, and can pick up chicks easy.
I'm sure I would grow on you, kinda like a venereal wart. You would get used to my rarified humor.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There's just a little added here and a little taken away there to adapt to today's warfare and tactics. The advanced course is the instructor course held at Quantico once a year, only they assume you already know how to teach and it focuses on employment and advanced training techniques for us to take back to our platoons. It is made for and attended by instructors and Chief Scouts/Plt Sgts. The urban course is a three week course put on by SOTG as part of the MSPF training package for the R&S platoon of that element. A 1moa M40A1 and M118 ammo is only capable of doing so much.


In a day and age where Disney, Hollywood, music and athletic stars steal all the headlines and attention, giving focus to true heroes is never a bad thing. I take my children to military museums, battlefields, NASA and the Smithsonian to try to show them the real reason our country is so great; because of simple men (and women) who did magnificent things. Without those kinds of places to give us a visual representation and education of how we got here, that would never be an easy task.

If I can get my daughter to look up to Amelia Earhart vs Brittney Spears, or my son to look up to Gen Omar Bradley over Eminem, I've done my job as a father. </div></div>
Is the urban course out at Combat town on LeJeune? i'm sure they added a few building, like ones with walls surrounding, to match current combat enviroments. Those compounds must suck. You either blow holes in them, and they could be thick and hard, or walk through a gate and hit a mine of enter a kill zone.
If you are at LeJeune go out to LZ Owl, out somewhere near the Rifle Range ad east of the K ranges, and see "VC Village". it probably looks like something out of raiders of the Lost Ark" by now.
Benning has a town that looks like a Generic West German town. Very cool and big enough for a company with attachments to get mired up in.
Do you still train with a hostage scenario at the range? With a hostage bouncing around in front of the target and you gotta hit the medulla area? We trained on that at 300, and had no prblem hitting paster "eyes" at 300. I wouldn't suggest it in real life though. It was like a LE shoot, "I hit a once hostage and when it was announced I said "Plenty more hostages where that one came from". I ended up doing 50 on the line for that.
But guy don't always stand there like baker targets, and sometimes all you would see is a head and shoulder in a window corner, doorway, hole in a wall, or out of a whole or ditch. I have no doubt you would take what you get and hit it out to 700 and beyond.
Do you still train for 2 man teams, or is it all larger units because of those couple bad events back in Iraq?
What is the R&S platoon? That's a new term to me.
Count yourself lucky for one thing. We had the Redfield 3x9 for school, and they were completely beat up and had no nitrogen. one fell apart while running out to the range and the Lt took it apart with the doc's hemostats, realigned the internal lenses, and put it back together. They guy continued to use it and actualy quaified with it.
5 weeks after we finished the 2112's from Quantico showed up and put on the Unertls. 3 months later we got AN/PVS4's (Gen 2), which didn't need a full moon and flares to see with, and right after that NVG's with the two intensifiers. they didn't go on or with helmets though.
They took a wafer type Lithium battery but didn't we see any of those until we went up through the Suez. Typical Corps logistics.
The Sniper course is 8 weeks now, and the Team Leader course another separate 4 weeks, right? That was all one program before. I guess have had their reasons, especially if all the students aren't senior LCPl, or Cpls with experince.
i heard a rumor that Recuits could get 0317 guaranteed as a enlistment contract, if they shot expert in boot and finished the SOI, and had a adequate ASVAB or whatever)score. I can't imagine a Private going through S/S training successfully, at least with the old 11 weeks.
When I was a kid it was all GI Joes (the big ones)and playing "Army" in the woods with the other kids. I used to literally crawl around inside the Liberty bell (not displayed and protected like now. it was just in Independence Hall). I had run of the USS Olympia, and my dad took me on trips to Aberdeen to see the old iron.
And Rat Patrol and Combat! were first run. "Ballad of the Green Berets" was Billboard's #1. Everybody's dad was a WW II or Korea era vet. I was ruined.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I'm not going OT anymore in this thread.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Redmanss,

Google has advantages and disadvantages, both have been use grossly in this thread. But, there's one thing Google can never explain and only those who know, understand that fact.
KraigWY is correct,...
The smell in here is worst than when we got first look an smell of "Year Zero" effects.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Carlos's white feather

no disrespect toward Mr. Hathcock but to lighten the mood:

i heard it's the same feather they used for the opening and closing shots in forrest gump.....

 

[SniperCJ]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Someone puh-leese go smash that pencil dick's (there I said it, come cut me...) Play Station with a hammer!

 

[Chris K]

Re: Carlos's white feather

OK, I cant help it...Donttrytorun, you're not a sniper or SCOUT sniper, sorry.

I'd bet most anything on it.

Just shut up with the rants please. You're ruining my day.

Produce a documentation that states your claim, or shut up please. This was a nice thread about a piece of Hathcock's legend, a quick question about folklore. You slurried it all up with self glorification and tall tales, insulting veterans, and making yourself look like a bitter young twit that never dealt with anything but a toe stubbing.

I have served with, trained with, been life long friends with Marines, none have scoffed at my Army career, and I dont belly ache and bitch about thiers. Airwingers, infantry what ever. YOu need to grow up, by doing that you'll learn about humility. Humility can take you a loooong way when bragging and yelling won't.

Just a tip. From a guy who went to sniper school and had to spend 3 weeks learning to shoot because I did'nt know where the bullets came out.

C_K

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Where is shank? We need his talents on rating out trolls!

 

[Chris K]

Re: Carlos's white feather

oh yeah, I forgot.

SHANKSTER!

C_K

 

[gray1974]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I started to ask about Shankster earlier today but I didn't know if that was legal. I thought it might be looked upon as excessive force.

 

[Chris K]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I think its a reasonable amount of force given the amount of people he is deliberately offending.

C_K