Carlos's white feather

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

dont
you have convinced me your real, but help me out here as I have two last questions, an want to learn something.
That mover at 725yds, thats down 30* from you, walking patrol to your 0300, on a great 75* day at 850 ASL with a 10mph wind from 0300. What would be your dope for a M40A1 an M118?

Also when calling Arty or Tac-Air(your choice), whats the std radio speak on your end from the gate?

 

[Chris K]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dont
you have convinced me your real, but help me out here as I have two last questions, an want to learn something.
That mover at 725yds, thats down 30* from you, walking patrol to your 0300, on a great 75* day at 850 ASL with a 10mph wind from 0300. What would be your dope for a M40A1 an M118?

Also when calling Arty or Tac-Air(your choice), whats the std radio speak on your end from the gate?</div></div>

ouch.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

So now I'm being asked to do the Trig for a hypothetical shot by a guy who a little while ago on this thread stated that Testing was a reflection of the Intructor, not the student, and who is playing tag team with a guy who thinks that to be a "Sniper" you don't have to go to a Sniper School?

The legacy of Hathcock, and Culver, and Land, isn't a feather, or a book. It is a thriving dynamic program going strong for almost 35 years. A program that readily adapts and adds based on real combat requirements. A program that demands, without conditions, superiour performance from prospects in all skills and academic testing, or they pack their shit and are gone.
The difference between a Marine S/S and everybody else, is everything they do other than just the shot. IMO, that's the easiest part. The shot results are predetermined when the math and fundamentals are applied. Getting to that point, and out is the hard part, and what separates Marine S/S from the rest. No program in the US , no other service, ever produced men with the variety of capabilities, the versatility and the adapatability of the S/S program demands.
It's about time I join the Association, and will. I just found out there is one. I will gladly provide them with the credentials required to establish my bonafides with them.
Hathcock wouldn't want to be remembered for a moth eaten ratty feather and a faded bush cover. He and his fellows left a thriving and valuable capability that every single combat action of the Marines has been able to benefit from since the first class graduated. It is a program that has expanded to meet the increased demand for the vesatile and capable men who accept the challenge and succeed in being able to call themselves Scout/Snipers.
There is no pin, or tab, or badge, or beret. There is no extra pay. The only reward is being able to proudly say "I am a Marine Scout /Sniper". We know what that means. So do those who know they are safer because S/S are with them, and out there, keeping the boogyman from having the intitiative and hurting fellow Merines. The simple fact is that a Scout /Sniper team, with that here much maligned radio and the skills to use it, can do perform the responsibilies of many others, and do, in addition to the Day and Night precision Fire that seems to be all some think is expected.
That is the real legacy of Hathcock. Not some silly feather.
The justified fear that any of this country's enemies experience knowing that his descendants are out working is whathe would be proud of most, I am sure.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

OK, help me out with this one, as it is about Getting there an back.
Tell to me about the night compass course you went thru?
Your pace count, rough, an smooth? How did you keep track of your count?
How do you traverse around water or other obstructions?
How do you operate a compass at night, ie what lines are now led/or used? How many clicks in a std mil 1/50K for 90*


Maps, what are the first two Idents of all military maps? Where on the map is contour given? What is the first thing you do before you try to grab a new heading?
These questions have always bugged me, hook a brother gunfighter up.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Why not just answer his questions instead of going on yet another semi-incoherent rant about how awesome you are.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">o now I'm being asked to do the Trig for a hypothetical shot by a guy who a little while ago on this thread stated that Testing was a reflection of the Intructor, not the student, and who is playing tag team with a guy who thinks that to be a "Sniper" you don't have to go to a Sniper School?

The legacy of Hathcock, and Culver, and Land, isn't a feather, or a book. It is a thriving dynamic program going strong for almost 35 years. A program that radily adapts and adds based on real combat requirements. A program that demands, without conditions, superiour performance from prospects in all skills and academic testing, or they pack their shit and are gone.<span style="color: #FF0000">
The difference between a Marine S/S and everybody else, is everything they do other than just the shot. IMO, that's the easiest part. The shot results are predetermined when the math and fundamentals are applied. Getting to that point, and out is the hard part, and what separates Marine S/S from the rest. No program in the US , no other service, ever produced men with the variety of capabilities, the versatility and the adapatability of the S/S program demands.</span>
It's about time I join the Association, and will. I just found out there is one. I will gladly provide them with the credentials required to establish my bonafides with them.
Hathcock wouldn't want to be remembered for a moth eaten ratty feather and a faded bush cover. He and his fellows left a thriving and valuable capability that every single combat action of the Marines has been able to benefit from since the first class graduated. It is a program that has expanded to meet the increased demand for the vesatile and capable men who accept the challenge and succeed in being able to call themselves Scout/Snipers.
There is no pin, or tab, or badge, or beret. There is no extra pay. The only reward is being able to proudly say "I am a Marine Scout /Sniper". We know what that means. So do those who know they are safer because S/S are with them, and out there, keeping the boogyman from having the intitiative and hurting fellow Merines. The simple fact is that a Scout /Sniper team, with that here much maligned radio and the skills to use it, can do perform the responsibilies of many others, and do, in addition to the Day and Night precision Fire that seems to be all some think is expected.
That is the real legacy of Hathcock. Not some silly feather.
The justified fear that any of this country's enemies experience knowing that his descendants are out working is the he would be proud of most, I am sure.
</div></div>

Really? You sure about all that?

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

These are, the very basic of questions, but mo better ones are coming.

 

[gray1974]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not just answer his questions instead of going on yet another semi-incoherent rant about how awesome you are.

</div></div>
Thanks for the post. I thought I might have overlooked the answer.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: Carlos's white feather

You know my favorite time of year? That two week period after Camp Perry when no Marines feel like talking... J/K

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know my favorite time of year? That two week period after Camp Perry when no Marines feel like talking... </div></div>

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.

I use to have this reather petite young lady who use to shoot for our Alaska Guard team. I'd take her with us to K-Bay and that other range near Pearl (forgot the name).

She was rather striking but looked small. She was about 90 lbs and stood 5 foot nothing. We'd be in the pits and those young marines would talk. Saying she couldn't be a shooter, tease her about being our cheer leader. I made some good money betting on my young lady.

She was hell on wheels in the setting rapid phase.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dont
you have convinced me your real, but help me out here as I have two last questions, an want to learn something.
That mover at 725yds, thats down 30* from you, walking patrol to your 0300, on a great 75* day at 850 ASL with a 10mph wind from 0300. What would be your dope for a M40A1 an M118?

Also when calling Arty or Tac-Air(your choice), whats the std radio speak on your end from the gate? </div></div>

I sent you a pm to see if my math was right, let me know pleaseK

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

R an R'ed

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

don't

Don't leave me out here on my own.
All I ever got was a Traveling Band an Road Show block of instruction from 1st Cav an 2nd ID. Well there was this one school but it was not about sneaky killing like you were trained, man you were school trained, I'm impressed. Please save this lost sole, I'm 5 clicks past the LD an SOL w/o your help. The Chaplin took my T/S card, is that grounds to say I quit, and I want to go home? The average age was 19, I was younger, but got to see a lot of dirt over the years, You?

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I think you scared him off, thanks.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

My intent, was but to learn. Man a school trained guy with that kind of in depth knowledge, I just wanted to pick his brain,... about stuff that has been bugging me.

Sad thing as you know, the second group of questions (Map & Compass) could be answered by most any set of boots that was awake during AIT or beyond, let alone someone school trained.

Psych evals are for very good reasons, and a program that should always be improved upon,...

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

M118? That's almost as obsolete as .....me.
30*. 725 yards?
The range is 628. Call it 600 at that altitude. Set the dial 600.
Patrolling? Say 2 MPH.
Only got 4 minutes on the windage knob. Damn. Set for zero.
Wind about 32-33 inches for 628 and lead 6 or 7 more...should be...call it 38-40 inches.
3.5 mao to a mil. Hold 2 mils right. OK? Elevation Turret set for 600 even. M118? 600? (C)= what, 14? Better put 1/2 min left on the windage knob and shoot it 6 MAO on a walking target in a crosswind. That's my call. Rounding is acceptable, right?

I'm doing that off the top of my head, after over well 20 years. All the tables are in my field book in a footlocker, and remote.
Isn't there a ballistic computer app for this stuff now?
Is that what you use? All this Trig makes my head hurt.
Sorry i was away for awhile. Some things came in I had to review and sign off on. It can't wait. That happens when I moonlight. Extra paycheck. Your patience is greatly appreciated. I hope the guy didn't get away.

But instead of shooting, put up the whip, change the freq and call the arty.
Fire mission grid, troops in the open, give them the grid, VT fuze, fire for effect (no smoke or HE spotter wanted for this). Give them direction in mils. That will give 9 to 15 rounds of airburst, hopefully right on him and them. Immediately shift "left 200, repeat". That would get the rest of the patrol behind, skeddaling out of the firestorm if they can.
Hopefully they were a advance guard and when the main body shows up we can give them the same, or worse.
If you want a Land Nav course, including how to use the bezel ring, I'll have to charge for that.
I carried a map and compass for 6 years, and never got lost.

Someday I will probably forget who I am, my family, and my way home, and this site address, but with my luck will unfortunatly remember that crap.
Once again, thank you for your patience.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know my favorite time of year? That two week period after Camp Perry when no Marines feel like talking... </div></div>

I use to have this reather petite young lady who use to shoot for our Alaska Guard team. I'd take her with us to K-Bay and that other range near Pearl (forgot the name).

</div></div>


Puuloa, or "Ewa Beach". Been called both. Beautiful Range. I loved it. Spent about 15 weeks there, in all. Lot of Lobsters out behind the butts.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M118? That's almost as obsolete as .....me.
30*. 725 yards?
The range is 628. Call it 600 at that altitude. Set the dial 600.
Patrolling? Say 2 MPH.
Only got 4 minutes on the windage knob. Damn. Set for zero.
Wind about 32-33 inches for 628 and lead 6 or 7 more...should be...call it 38-40 inches.
3.5 mao to a mil. Hold 2 mils right. OK? Elevation Turret set for 600 even. M118? 600? (C)= what, 14? Better put 1/2 min left on the windage knob and shoot it 6 MAO on a walking target in a crosswind. That's my call. Rounding is acceptable, right?

I'm doing that off the top of my head, after over well 20 years. All the tables are in my field book in a footlocker, and remote.
Isn't there a ballistic computer app for this stuff now?
Is that what you use? All this Trig makes my head hurt.
Sorry i was away for awhile. Some things came in I had to review and sign off on. It can't wait. That happens when I moonlight. Extra paycheck. Your patience is greatly appreciated. I hope the guy didn't get away.

But instead of shooting, put up the whip, change the freq and call the arty.
Fire mission grid, troops in the open, give them the grid, VT fuze, fire for effect (no smoke or HE spotter wanted for this). Give them direction in mils. That will give 9 to 15 rounds of airburst, hopefully right on him and them. Immediately shift "left 200, repeat". That would get the rest of the patrol behind, skeddaling out of the firestorm if they can.
Hopefully they were a advance guard and when the main body shows up we can give them the same, or worse.
If you want a Land Nav course, including how to use the bezel ring, I'll have to charge for that.
I carried a map and compass for 6 years, and never got lost.

Someday I will probably forget who I am, my family, and my way home, and this site address, but with my luck will unfortunatly remember that crap.
Once again, thank you for your patience. </div></div>

Wrong, now your target and world knows your there. Your Fieldcraft best be better than your shooting or Google fu to this point. Because the odds ain't looking to good for you now, on either the imaginary field, or the board eyes, that are going to read your response.

Patience, is more of the task than you'll ever know, an that's coming from, a Old worn out Never Was Has Been.
You might get a drink, or be offered a skirt with your tales, but that's only because they don't know.

Just an FYI, other than the shooting part, a 4th week AIT leg student would have been closer to correct, let alone a National assist. My time was long before yours, but Uncle an I were still shaking hands the date, you said, you were in school.

The bezel ring was a nice touch, but you never said how many clicks in 90*, how to set up the compass for night use, which way you turn the bezel at night. Again, night with a compass is a stock leg task,...

So all in all unless you have something show, or know someone that can vouch, I do believe it's the end of this auction,... All In, All Done, Calling the last an final time, it's now or never,....

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I could have gone with 5.35 MOA, held 2 mils and took off 1 1/2 mao, but experience told me to doubt your wind call.

Everybody knows each click of the bezel is 3 degrees.
Don't forget to consult the declination diagram convert from magnetic to grid, and back, as needed.
Is this how it's gonna be, hotshot? If you cry enough to get me banned, will they give you a tab for it?

 

[pawprint]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I've read this string from start to finish, maybe someone can tell me the name of "the book"? The book Carlos made all the money on etc. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

dont

I'm not the one into paper or such, I just wanted to learn from the master.
Long ago Uncle gave school on how to extract what you seek or are task to seek. Bait, it's all about bait and the quarry.
You, an only you, are the one who made sure you were on radar. Therefore self destruction is but upon you, and no one else.
This has not been a 50/50, guess test. Had it been you may well have passed,...but I doubt it.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this how it's gonna be, hotshot? If you cry enough to get me banned, will they give you a tab for it? </div></div>
You got the wrong guy sport, it won't bother me either way. In fact I prefer you stay for your well being, much easier for you to learn.

Nobody here that I know of cares about paper or yesterday,...you do the math.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Carlos's white feather

As much as I enjoy seeing Don't get his ass handed to him I think all this attention is complimenting him too much.

Better to not even response to the troll and he'll find his own way to the exit.

 

[pawprint]

Re: Carlos's white feather

No one has bothered to post the name of "the book", or how much Carlos made on the deal, 100,000s in print. Answers: Name of book," Marine Sniper,93 Confirmed Kills". Amount of money Carlos made from book, $1000.00 (one thousand dollars). So much for all the money he made from the book- but I guess for some that is a lot of money. Regarding the hat/feather, there is a published photo of Colonel Jack Cuddy and GySGT Hathcock conducting a Sniper presentation to a basic class of 2d Lt.s, Hathcocks boonie hat with his white feater are seen on the table along with an assortment of rifles.
Real snipers don't shoot in matches? Well those experts may be right. But as far as Carlos Hathcock went (many believe he was a "real sniper") he shot in many matches, 1960, Marine Shooting Team (HI), Carlos won. 1961, Carlos won the 600 yard match at Camp Lejeune.1965, Carlos won the silver medal in the National Match Competition at Camp Perry, two days later at Camp Perry he won-The Wimbledon trophy. This is a very short list, but as one can easily see, a real sniper really did shoot in real matches, the kind where scores are kept-standardized targets- you know the kind that can be compared for record against other shooters, over a period of many years.

 

[Raven 6]

Re: Carlos's white feather

The book "White Feather" put out by Chandler goes into more detail about why he didn't make any money on the orginal book.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Here is a bit showing "donttrytorun" is full of crap, its an late interview with Carlos Hathcock:

Well worth reading for all of us.

http://usmcscoutsniper.org/sniperpages/Carlos.html

Some interesting info for Donttry:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carlos Hathcock's early education in sniping occurred in Hawaii, under the tutelage of Lt. (later Major) E.J. Land. This school was intended, in part, to help justify the continued existence of the Hawaii Marines rifle team. As Carlos described it, "It was a one-week school, with no field tactics or anything. We learned mostly shooting, to try to hang on to the Hawaii Marines team there." Where did Hathcock learn to stalk? "I learned it from being a hunter as a kid, and the rest I taught myself." Did the snipers use ghillie suits in the early days? "No, heavens no, we hadn't even thought about 'em, to tell you the truth. We used natural camouflage, not artificial. I had little holes in all my uniforms for that."</div></div>

Reference Donttry's bs about Military head shots, and Military Vs. Law Enforcement Sniping.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Somewhat less well-known is the part Hathcock played in the training of police counter-snipers after his retirement from the service. As I broached this topic, he was careful to draw a distinction between the military and police sniper: "The military sniper is an area shooter - that's what I was. There's 36" between a man's chin and his belt buckle, and a hit anywhere in there will work. However, a police counter-sniper is a precision, surgical shooter. There's just one spot he's got to hit, to neutralize the bad guy right then. Say a bad guy has got a cocked pistol to a hostage's head. The police sniper has to hit the bad guy so exactly that he doesn't shoot, he doesn't fall sideways or backwards, he just falls straight down. That's a good shot, and I have had a few policemen who have made good shots after they left this school." </div></div>

Carlos on Police Sniping:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"I really idolize those guys - the police snipers - and that's why I spent so much time working with policemen." In sharp contrast to military sniping, in which shots ranging out to 800 yards or more may be taken, Hathcock noted that the average police sniping incident occurs at only 83 yards as per recent FBI statistics. Instant incapacitation of dangerous offenders is THE rationale behind the employment of police snipers. As such, his training has focused on shooting at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. Hathcock, himself, is no longer is no longer physically able to train students, but he takes pride that several police marksman whom he personally trained teach at the police sniping at school Virginia Beach.</div></div>

Carlos Hathcock should be reviered for his military accomplishments, but equally important is his service provided to the Law Enforcement community.

To put donttrytorun in the same catagory with this legion, is not only an insult to his memory, and scout snipers, but the Marine Corp in Genereal.

I'm not nor have I ever been a Marine, I'm an Army Paratrooper, but I've met with, and shot with many fine Marines. In dealing with Donttry, I'm convinced Marines would handle it in two ways, either ignor the pimple face want-a-be or slap the stupid out of him.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

PS Forgot to add:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carlos considers advanced marksmanship training, such as that practiced in training military shooting teams for competition, an invaluable aid in developing the mental discipline and concentration required of the military or police sniper.</div></div>

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Real snipers shoot in matches. I've shot alongside many many snipers that left shortly thereafter for the big sand box.


It's going to be interesting in a few years when books start coming out about the exploits of our current generation.

Vietnam was fascinating in that a lot of stories came out, feats, whatnot.

But I know that there will be books about what is going on now, stalks of specific people, snipers defending an AO, or hunting bad guys.

Saw a show yesterday where a sniper with a BMG was taking some bad guys out in a valley in Afghanistan at 1000 meters...these things will come out.

Maybe nobody spoke of them in the past, killing of men with a rifle and doing it concealed....was not honorable.

Carlos Hathcock's book really broke the ice on that. How many sniper books have followed since then?

 

[Raven 6]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Dozen's. "Hog's in the Shadow's" is probably one of the first, if not the first type book you speak of about the fight in Iraq.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's going to be interesting in a few years when books start coming out about the exploits of our current generation</div></div>

They are already out there:

Hunters: U.S. Snipers in the War on Terror by Milo S. Afong

Trigger Men by Hans Halberstadt

and a couple others I can't think of now.

Different tactics, instead of sniper teams on their own they work more like desinated marksman, providing over watch and such.

What's intersting is reading McBride, the stories of Russian Snipers of WWII, Vietnam, and our current wars.

Things change yet remain the same. One really needs to be careful in saying what a Sniper is or what a Sniper isn't, cause there is stuff out there to prove us all wrong.

I would like to see us do away with the tern altogether and go back to Sharpshooter or something, which covers them all, Military, Police, and Criminal.

Dern British and their little birds.

But then we wouldnt have anything to fuss about.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

One of my favorite sniping photos. This young lady was AF Security Police protecting an airfield. Story was she was credited with taking out a team of insurgents planting a mine. I don't know if the story is true or internet myth, but I still like it.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Reference Donttry's bs about Military head shots, and Military Vs. Law Enforcement Sniping.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Say a bad guy has got a cocked pistol to a hostage's head. The police sniper has to hit the bad guy so exactly that he doesn't shoot, he doesn't fall sideways or backwards, he just falls straight down. That's a good shot, and I have had a few policemen who have made good shots after they left this school." </div></div></div></div>

Wonder if the counter for a release trigger, was taught at that school as well? Lawyers just love the sound of, <span style="font-weight: bold">Oh Shit</span>.
Bad thing is, a guy that don't know about releases allows the dirt bag to win at least twice, or more, depending on the D/B's level of ability.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<span style="font-weight: bold">Dontrun is old enough too be snipa at 50.</span>

 

[shankster..]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it was just a little feather he picked up and stuck in his hat. that it has some sort of deep significance is fantasy building a legend.
Just a feather. </div></div>
Really?
What year an where, did you meet him, Burke, or MacAbee to base that responce upon? </div></div>
Buying into a Cult of Personality because of a book. There were, and are, better and more successful snipers than Hathcock. But Hathcock shot a guy in the eye through his scope, and shot a guy off a bicycle with a M2 that he had preregistered in advance. Good for him. I'm not gonna bow down and kowtow. 'm a former Scout/Sniper too. If he was alive i might like to talk shop, but not kiss his ass.
</div></div>
Yawn.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I think this has gone on long enough.

The answer to the white feather is because he was forced to do a news article for either stars n stripes or leatherneck (can't remember which, mebby both) and being the cocky so n so that he could be, he stuck a white feather in his hat for the article. The article which was one of the few feel good pieces coming out of the war and got much play in the RVN and as such he played it as a joke until he realized it had become a symbol. He may have been country, but he was no fool.

Where is it (are they)? In a burn pit in Da Nang with all the other bits of unserviceable equipment, uniforms and bits of war that people going home left behind.

When sitting in his house long after I passed the starry eyed kid phase and was accepted, I asked him this question. He gave me that cockeye'd grin and pulled out a cigar box and said "Right here." In the cigar box was a bunch of pens, business cards and a fist full of white feathers. He treated the feather like a ribbon on his uniform. You have inspection ribbons, walking around ribbons and liberty ribbons and so it was for the feathers. It was expected that he wear it, as they wore out he replaced it. Somewhere along the line somebody made him some gold pins in the shape of feathers, these he could give away (everybody wanted one) without anyone thinking that they had "The one".

I have had the privilege and honor to be the guest at his house here in VA Beach multiple times. It saddens me each time I drive by the place now and don't see his Ford Ranger with "Sniper" on the license plate parked in the drive waye or see the EGA flying below the stars and stripes in the front yard. Jo sold the place and moved back home shortly after his death.

Gunny had the weaknesses of most men and the failings that went with them, but to his core he was one of the finest Marines I ever had the pleasure to meet. He never gloated over his record and never spoke of more than he actually did. He could tell you down to the last nano second what was going through his mind when he won Wimbledon, I never heard him EVER say anything more than "It was a good shot" when referencing the "through the scope" shot.

If you want the go looking for the holy grail of Gunny memorabilia find the nickle plated 1911 A1 that Colt made him with the engraved pewter grips. I was in A&P Arms (by coincidence) the day he picked it up. Last I heard he lost it in Alexandria VA or there abouts. Find the back of his wheel chair that was made by a few USMC wing guys.

Oh, never refer to Carlos #3 as "Jr". Made that mistake, ONCE. Gunny was a no shit for real Gunny and could bring it out on call. As you might expect.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it was just a little feather he picked up and stuck in his hat. that it has some sort of deep significance is fantasy building a legend.
Just a feather. </div></div>
Really?
What year an where, did you meet him, Burke, or MacAbee to base that responce upon? </div></div>
Buying into a Cult of Personality because of a book. There were, and are, better and more successful snipers than Hathcock. But Hathcock shot a guy in the eye through his scope, and shot a guy off a bicycle with a M2 that he had preregistered in advance. Good for him. I'm not gonna bow down and kowtow. 'm a former Scout/Sniper too. If he was alive i might like to talk shop, but not kiss his ass.
</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">You graduated from high school last year and have the info to prove it. Do you think I'm bluffing?</span> </div></div>


I bet your bluffing! Come on, there is no way!

 

[shankster..]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I was teasing you guys. Dontrun is the real deal.










<span style="font-weight: bold">Billy Zane confirmed it.</span>

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

OK, I'll bite, who's Billy Zane drive for?

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Age has nothing to do with maturity. I don't care how old he is, he acts like the typical pimple face needle dick that gets locked in lockers or hung upside down in middle school.

Assuming he attended a sniper school, (which I'm not conceding), what has he done with his life besides shoot his mouth off.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Age has nothing to do with maturity. I don't care how old he is, he acts like the typical pimple face needle dick that gets locked in lockers or hung upside down in middle school.

Assuming he attended a sniper school, (which I'm not conceding), what has he done with his life besides shoot his mouth off. </div></div>

Well, in his defense, he is (or says he is) an RN. If true thats certainly a wortwile pursuit.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I'll bite, who's Billy Zane drive for? </div></div>

Billy Zane. The other guy in the Sniper movie. Not Tom Berenger. Mr. Silver Medal mit gucciflage.

Nice MSG-90 though.

 

[Guest]

Re: Carlos's white feather

So he's an actor, now I understand what Shank was getting at.
Thanks,

 

[johnsobr]

Re: Carlos's white feather

I came back to check the status of this post and pretty much threw up in my mouth. Why is everyone wasting time pissing on the others boots. Dont we all fight for the same team and the same cause?

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Carlos's white feather

Show some respect for the man. I wonder how many of you would act like this if he were alive. MM

 

[RODENT]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it's Carlos' white feather by the way, not Carlos's </div></div>

Amen!

 

[chris223]

Re: Carlos's white feather



Some of us even remember him very quietly working with Mitchell Werbell/Sionics/Powder Springs, GA after his tours. [/quote]

I consider him a hero if for nothing else than pulling the marines out of the apc. And what was he working on at sionics? suppressors?
or training I doubt he was involved with the mac-10.

 

[j-huskey]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varmint6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Some of us even remember him very quietly working with Mitchell Werbell/Sionics/Powder Springs, GA after his tours. </div></div>

I consider him a hero if for nothing else than pulling the marines out of the apc. And what was he working on at sionics? suppressors?
or training I doubt he was involved with the mac-10. [/quote]

Varmit - that post was in reply to one of the posts in this topic and about one of the snipers with higher numbers than Gunny, specifically Adelbert "Bert" Waldron, 9th Infantry Division, 1969 RVN, not Gunny Hathcock. Waldron didn't pull anybody out of a APC. fwiw

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnson5R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I came back to check the status of this post and pretty much threw up in my mouth. Why is everyone wasting time pissing on the others boots. Dont we all fight for the same team and the same cause? </div></div>

I gotta admit, I have been pulling the pubs of some Miss Sandy Vagina's around here, and I apologize. In fact, I will spring for the Summer's Eve and Cranberry Juice, as a token of sincerity. Please forgive me.

That is funny that Hathcock plucked a duck so all the starry eyed young pups who came to worship could get a souvenir. That's exactly the kind of humor I appreciate. Sorry i didn't get the chance to cross paths. He sounds like somebody who would be fun to party with.

 

[Don't try to run]

Re: Carlos's white feather

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>
Looks like Shannen Doherty. Finally found some work again, and now she can cultivate her violent tendencies without going to jail. I respect that.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Carlos's white feather

holy shit where have I been? i missed all this.....

DonttrytobeatmeatXBOX is a FUCKING RETARD