Rifle Scopes CCH vs TReMoR 3

[HunterFL772]

Hello to the Hide,

I know there are a few old and dead threads about Leupold's CCH. What is the consensus now that they have been out for awhile? I am looking at a MK5 HD and am between the CCH or the Tremor 3. The CCH for sure seem less busy, but as we all know, leupold's website stinks and info about the reticle is rarer than woodpecker lips. I dont want to give up usefulness.

Optic mainly for PRS and is going on a MPA/6.5CM build.

Thanks all,
Hunter

 

[beetroot]

There is subtensions and infor about the CCH reticle here:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/so-what-about-leupold-mark-5.6869995/page-18

The Tremor 3 and CCH are quite different; the CCH is a standard holdover grid type reticle, which you would use exactly the same as a H59 or SKMR3 or on of the many similar grid/tree reticles.
The Tremor is different in that you had the same functionality of the H59 (and CCH for that matter) but also has the wind dots which some folk love and others not so much.

There are videos on YouTube showing how the Tremor works and the calculations that are done to work out the wind holds for your rifle.
Watch these videos and do that calculations for your load, or a factory 6.5CM load and see what you think.
I personally don't think I'd ever buy one, using my load data after about 400 yards there was just too much error in the wind holds, as well as I like to dial elevation and hold for wind so I'd never use them.

The main issue (or positive) of the Tremor is it means you never dial elevation, as soon as you dial anything the wind dots are no longer correct, which renders them useless.
Watch the videos, do the calculations and understand how it works and if you think you will like it then go for the Tremor, if not it's a lot of extra money for something you may never use.

 

[HunterFL772]

Thanks for the info beetroot! Ive watched the Tremor videos, but could only find small bits of chicken in reference to the CCH. I have heard good things.

I am with you about dialing elevation and holding wind. I would think in competition, unless you are very good (I cant relate), my eye and mind would get lost in trying to hold elevation and wind with the reticle.

How do you feel about using .25 mil sub-tensions?

 

[beetroot]

I've not used the reticle so can't say for sure, some folk love .2mils and I feel these would be more appropriate since the scope dials in .1mil not .25mil increments but I'm sure you would get used to the .25 hashes, folk have been using .5mil hashes for a long time without issue.

 

[ForgeValley]

The main issue (or positive) of the Tremor is it means you never dial elevation, as soon as you dial anything the wind dots are no longer correct, which renders them useless.

Not the case. Each of my wind dots is 4mph with no elevation dialed, if I dial 5 mils elevation into my scope, I can then use the wind dots at 1/2 value, each dot becomes a 2mph dot. If I dial 10 mils elevation in, each dot is 1/4 value, and becomes a 1mph wind dot.

I switched to the T3 after using one in a class, I was sold on the ease of using the wind dots. I think in mph throughout the process now. I estimate the wind in mph, and I don't do any mental calculations for a mil windhold. I imagine the mph value of my wind dot floating in the reticle, so I now 'see' the wind dot value in mph superimposed on the reticle.

 

[beetroot]

Not the case. Each of my wind dots is 4mph with no elevation dialed, if I dial 5 mils elevation into my scope, I can then use the wind dots at 1/2 value, each dot becomes a 2mph dot. If I dial 10 mils elevation in, each dot is 1/4 value, and becomes a 1mph wind dot.

I switched to the T3 after using one in a class, I was sold on the ease of using the wind dots. I think in mph throughout the process now. I estimate the wind in mph, and I don't do any mental calculations for a mil windhold. I imagine the mph value of my wind dot floating in the reticle, so I now 'see' the wind dot value in mph superimposed on the reticle.

Is that a design feature or just happens to work for your particular load? I've not seen or heard that written anywhere.
It still limits you too a particular set of circumstances and means you need to do some mental arrhythmic to make it work.

I admit that the tremor reticle would be extremely useful folk who like to hold over, but for someone who likes to dial it's a lot of extra money if you aren't going to use it. Seems like something you need to try before you buy, as in your case it obviously works for you.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Is that a design feature or just happens to work for your particular load? I've not seen or heard that written anywhere.
It still limits you too a particular set of circumstances and means you need to do some mental arrhythmic to make it work.

I admit that the tremor reticle would be extremely useful folk who like to hold over, but for someone who likes to dial it's a lot of extra money if you aren't going to use it. Seems like something you need to try before you buy, as in your case it obviously works for you.

Design feature. Common knowledge with T3

 

[jbell]

I have recently switched over to all MK5 scopes on all of my rifles, but before I did I agonized over this very question. I have shot and understand the T3 reticle and appreciate the design. However I decided to go with the CCH for a few reasons:
-Main reason is that it does appear less busy, and I HATE a cluttered reticle!
-Second is simply that I am used to holding wind in terms of Mils. I am sure I can learn the other way, but I am not certain it will work as predicted all the time on many different calibers / and shooting conditions (I shoot from -2500 DA to + 2500 DA or more) with anything from a 22lr up to a magnum. I know that my data in Mils is corrected.

I have been shooting the MK5 & CCH for a month or so now and really like the combo thus far! I started with just 1 and as mentioned have sold everything and now am only shooting the MK5 CCH...

 

[HunterFL772]

Thank you all for your insight! I am leaning towards the CCH, it seems better suited for my needs/eye.

Pair that with ARC M10’s and I think I’ll have a winner!

Although Kahles option looks good, but in a different tax bracket from me

 

[Dthomas3523]

Thank you all for your insight! I am leaning towards the CCH, it seems better suited for my needs/eye.

Pair that with ARC M10’s and I think I’ll have a winner!

Although Kahles option looks good, but in a different tax bracket from me

Should be able to find a used k624i in the same ball park.

It’s all personal preference, but the skmr3 or AMR are much better than CCH imo.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Minox ZP5 > Kahles all day though.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Minox ZP5 > Kahles all day though.

Glass yea, Minox is a bit better. Not enough to matter much.

Reticle is preference. I prefer the way the skmr/skmr3 windage marks are set up.

Ergonomics, the kahles wins.

 

[beetroot]

Should be able to find a used k624i in the same ball park.

It’s all personal preference, but the skmr3 or AMR are much better than CCH imo.

The k624 is on sale with a few places now for around 2300.
Still quite a price increase over the Mark 5, but a huge saving on what they are full price.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The k624 is on sale with a few places now for around 2300.
Still quite a price increase over the Mark 5, but a huge saving on what they are full price.

Hence the “used” part.

Also, with the k525i, this is likely going to be the going price for new 624 now.

 

[HunterFL772]

I found a mk5 cch for under 1800, seems like a decent deal?

 

[beetroot]

I found a mk5 cch for under 1800, seems like a decent deal?

Sounds like a pretty good price.
Have you tried @LibertyOptics
He has been offering some scorching deals on the Mark 5.
I'd talk to him or try some of the other hide dealers.

 

[wigwamitus]

Yes, if you want to dial for elevation and hold for wind, then the hold-over/xmas tree reticles are not ideal for you.

Three basic categories of reticle.


classical cross hair reticle = dial for elevation and wind

mil dot/hash reticle = dial for elevation and hold for wind

hold-over (xmas tree) reticle = hold for elevation and hold for wind

==
I use the T3 reticles because of the wind dots. Not only can I hold for wind, but no need to convert to mils to determine hold. Estimate(think) in MPH and hold in MPH. More speed gained when facing multiple unknown distance targets.

Press range finder "fire" button, read off the distance, refer to memorized DOPE card for elevation. Update mental estimate for wind in MPH. Hold for elevation and wind and shoot. I current practice wind calling out to 750yds on my land ... building a berm to enable 1,050.

 

[LibertyOptics]

Thank you Beetroot! If we are talking about the 25x we have one left from our new year's sale @ $1749 OTD. The 18x we have a few and they are $1599 OTD.

Best,

Scott

 

[sabrecross]

Thank you Beetroot! If we are talking about the 25x we have one left from our new year's sale @ $1749 OTD. The 18x we have a few and they are $1599 OTD.

Best,

Scott

That's a great deal!

 

[Lynn313]

I have recently switched over to all MK5 scopes on all of my rifles, but before I did I agonized over this very question. I have shot and understand the T3 reticle and appreciate the design. However I decided to go with the CCH for a few reasons:
-Main reason is that it does appear less busy, and I HATE a cluttered reticle!
-Second is simply that I am used to holding wind in terms of Mils. I am sure I can learn the other way, but I am not certain it will work as predicted all the time on many different calibers / and shooting conditions (I shoot from -2500 DA to + 2500 DA or more) with anything from a 22lr up to a magnum. I know that my data in Mils is corrected.

I have been shooting the MK5 & CCH for a month or so now and really like the combo thus far! I started with just 1 and as mentioned have sold everything and now am only shooting the MK5 CCH...

Old thread, but reading because I have been doing the same except also using the pr2-mil. I think the t3 is better for Mil work where you are always shooting the same cartridge with same load.