China Virus, Relief Checks to US Citizens and the National Debt

[Longshot231]

The fault with the spread of COVID-19 virus can be laid squarely at the feet of the Chinese Communists.

The cost of paying for treatment, lost jobs, damage to US business and industry as well as other measures to fight the China Virus is staggering.

Some people are opposed to the Federal government writing checks to US citizens who cannot pay their bills because of business closures. I will say this much. We spend billions of dollars helping other people in other countries. Some of those countries hate us and are hell-bent on destroying us.

So why should we not be helping our own?

One argument against sending money to US citizens suffering as a result of the virus is that it would increase the national debt.

One answer to mitigating that addition to the national debt is to make the Chinese pay for it.

Okay, I will give you a few minutes to stop laughing.

Are you done laughing? Good. Read on.

The Chinese, as of January 2020, hold about 1.08 trillion dollars in Treasury Securities. Now that you know that, you probably are beginning to think the same thing that I am contemplating.

Let's just tell the Chinese that we are not going to honor those securities. In other words, those T-bills are worthless to the Chinese. We should not have to pay them back and that will reduce our national debt by 16% for the T-bills and overall by 4.7%.

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

If you feel the way I do, contact our elected officials and tell them to cancel all the treasury securities held by China.

https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

 

[Nik H]

1. And when we do that, who continues to buy the treasuries being that China buys most of them?
2. What happens to the US when we can't sell securities to anyone because we defaulted?

 

[sandwarrior]

The fault with the spread of COVID-19 virus can be laid squarely at the feet of the Chinese Communists.

The cost of paying for treatment, lost jobs, damage to US business and industry as well as other measures to fight the China Virus is staggering.

Some people are opposed to the Federal government writing checks to US citizens who cannot pay their bills because of business closures. I will say this much. We spend billions of dollars helping other people in other countries. Some of those countries hate us and are hell-bent on destroying us.

So why should we be helping our own?

One argument against sending money to US citizens suffering as a result of the virus is that it would increase the national debt.

One answer to mitigating that addition to the national debt is to make the Chinese pay for it.

Okay, I will give you a few minutes to stop laughing.

Are you done laughing? Good. Read on.

The Chinese, as of January 2020, hold about 1.08 trillion dollars in Treasury Securities. Now that you know that, you probably are beginning to think the same thing that I am contemplating.

Let's just tell the Chinese that we are not going to honor those securities. In other words, those T-bills are worthless to the Chinese. We should not have to pay them back and that will reduce our national debt by 16% for the T-bills and overall by 4.7%.

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

If you feel the way I do, contact our elected officials and tell them to cancel all the treasury securities held by China.

https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

I like the idea, but instead of outright not paying it, I would use it as leverage for us to make them pay it. If we up and told them their money is no good, without giving them some kind of reprieve to pay in fair time, allows them to get aggressive. Not that it would be right in either case. But, it would keep the gasoline off the fire.

Now, how to find how to find where the germ warfare labs are and open the doors in their own country and shut the doors with them inside.

 

[Longshot231]

1. And when we do that, who continues to buy the treasuries being that China buys most of them?
2. What happens to the US when we can't sell securities to anyone because we defaulted?

And look what happens if we don't. The Chi-Coms have been on a war footing with us for years. It's only now that some people finally got "woke" to that fact.

 

[sandwarrior]

1. And when we do that, who continues to buy the treasuries being that China buys most of them?
2. What happens to the US when we can't sell securities to anyone because we defaulted?

It's like kicking someone out of a bar. You just tell them your money is no good here and you ain't getting another drink. Now get out!

The rest of the customer's money is good. And, the dollar will always be good.

 

[Ken Burton]

We should do away with most of FRREEE stuff, gov. stop paying for overpriced equipment, supplies and all the other shit we get suckered into, reduce the Med. care cost of the OLD people in DC, Get rid of all the WE NEED from the worthless none working class, stop with the building more fancy gov. building etc. so we have less of an upkeep

 

[kenny1773]

You risk damage to the United States credit rating, so no, not a good idea to just take money from bonds that were bought by the Chinese

I do love how Trump keeps publicly referring to the virus as 'The Chinese Virus' and that is pissing off the SJW

I think everyone needs get on board with this and ask China to pay for the damage they have caused worldwide, and be dicks about it

I also think we need to bring manufacturing capabilities for FUCKING EVERYTHING back to US soil just so we break that dependence. Not saying to be an isolationist or be an island, just saying have some capability on US soil to maintain national security over things like common meds not made here any more.

 

[Longshot231]

We should do away with most of FRREEE stuff, gov. stop paying for overpriced equipment, supplies and all the other shit we get suckered into, reduce the Med. care cost of the OLD people in DC, Get rid of all the WE NEED from the worthless none working class, stop with the building more fancy gov. building etc. so we have less of an upkeep

Point well taken. The people that WOULD NOT work before this got started should not get anything.

Nothing like this has happened in the history of the world.

 

[Longshot231]

You risk damage to the United States credit rating, so no, not a good idea to just take money from bonds that were bought by the Chinese

I do love how Trump keeps publicly referring to the virus as 'The Chinese Virus' and that is pissing off the SJW

I think everyone needs get on board with this and ask China to pay for the damage they have caused worldwide, and be dicks about it

I also think we need to bring manufacturing capabilities for FUCKING EVERYTHING back to US soil just so we break that dependence. Not saying to be an isolationist or be an island, just saying have some capability on US soil to maintain national security over things like common meds not made here any more.

We can demand all we want that the Chi-Coms pay for the damage the virus has caused but they will continue to give us the middle finger.

So fuck them rat-bastards. Don't honor their T-bills.

Our credit will still be good with the rest of the world. It also sends a message to other countries that have similar aims toward us. We'll do business with them unless they try to fuck us over.

 

[pmclaine]

It's like kicking someone out of a bar. You just tell them your money is no good here and you ain't getting another drink. Now get out!

The rest of the customer's money is good. And, the dollar will always be good.

China has been angling to take the world off the dollar standard.

They want the yuan to be the worlds currency.

Id like to say thats a joke due to their currency manipulation but have you seen the Fed?

Not saying I disagree with your thoughts but be prepared for a lot bigger problems the Covid-19.

The deaths will be real and a lot faster.

 

[schmi015]

Time for the a meeting of NATO Countries and to seal off China. Embargo them and crush them financially. Send China back to 1800, declaw and de-tooth the tiger. Economic ruin for them should be the way.

 

[Longshot231]

Time for the a meeting of NATO Countries and to seal off China. Embargo them and crush them financially. Send China back to 1800, declaw and de-tooth the tiger. Economic ruin for them should be the way.

Exactly. Those rats have wanted to take over the world ever since Mao rose to power after WWII.

If the communists leaders don't care about their people they could care less about the rest of the world.

The only thing that I would be willing to send to China would be arms and ammunition to anyone willing to overthrow the communists and establish a representative government.

 

[Nik H]

It's like kicking someone out of a bar. You just tell them your money is no good here and you ain't getting another drink. Now get out!

The rest of the customer's money is good. And, the dollar will always be good.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The bar analogy is poor as a bar provides a product in return. What would you do if you paid for a drink and the bartender said thanks but I am not giving it to you because you're drunk and he kept your money???

The idea here would have enormous consequences. I am sure you can figure what could happen

I do agree that retribution to China is important since they started this mess. How we do it remains to be seen.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The only thing that I would be willing to send to China would be arms and ammunition to anyone willing to overthrow the communists and establish a representative government.

I doubt you'd be allowed to do it, or our government would ever do it.

We were the ones who basically indirectly (funneled it through the Soviet Union) funded Mao's army to enable them to win and take over China, while at the same time denying funds to the Chinese Nationalist government.

 

[pmclaine]

I doubt you'd be allowed to do it, or our government would ever do it.

We were the ones who basically indirectly (funneled it through the Soviet Union) funded Mao's army to enable them to win and take over China, while at the same time denying funds to the Chinese Nationalist government.

Huh?

We aided and abetted as far as the enemy of my enemy is my friend but Chaing was our guy.

Unfortunately "our guy" is typically a corrupt fuck only slightly better than the commie alternative.

I wouldnt doubt OSS/Cia precursor had some sympathetic bastards - shit Evans Carlson was a fan - but the Nationalist Govt was our horse to ride.....still is......otherwise Taiwan would be total PRC.

 

[Longshot231]

Imagine if Hong Kong residents had guns.

 

[pmclaine]

Imagine if Hong Kong residents had guns.

Brits never let there colonials have arms.

HK should have revolted pre 99.

 

[Longshot231]

Brits never let there colonials have arms.

That didn't turn out too good for them with the American Colonies

They must have changed their policies after that.

 

[E. Bryant]

China only holds about $1.1 trillion in US Treasuries. You'd do far more financial damage than that to us due to the increased rate-of-return that would need to be offered to investors who got spooked. This is pretty much the textbook definition of "cutting off one's nose to spite the face".

Nothing about the US financial system works without that whole "full faith and credit" concept.

 

[Longshot231]

China only holds about $1.1 trillion in US Treasuries. You'd do far more financial damage than that to us due to the increased rate-of-return that would need to be offered to investors who got spooked. This is pretty much the textbook definition of "cutting off one's nose to spite the face".

Nothing about the US financial system works without that whole "full faith and credit" concept.

Our relationship with the Chi-coms is like a very bad marriage. It costs you just as much to stay in it as it does to get out of it.

 

[E. Bryant]

Our relationship with the Chi-coms is like a very bad marriage. It costs you just as much to stay in it as it does to get out of it.

I agree, but what is being proposed here is like cutting off your dick to deprive her of sex.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

So when do we get to layoff the dead beats on welfare?

 

[sandwarrior]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The bar analogy is poor as a bar provides a product in return. What would you do if you paid for a drink and the bartender said thanks but I am not giving it to you because you're drunk and he kept your money???

The idea here would have enormous consequences. I am sure you can figure what could happen

I do agree that retribution to China is important since they started this mess. How we do it remains to be seen.

No, a lot of bars I know, won't let you finish the drink you paid for if you turn into "instant asshole", or they've had enough of you overall. It's get out out and don't come back.

There would be ramifications no doubt, as pmc suggested. That's why I'm saying tighten the leash slowly. Not enough Americans understand the ramifications of letting everyone else in, with damn near zero accountability.

 

[Nik H]

China only holds about $1.1 trillion in US Treasuries. You'd do far more financial damage than that to us due to the increased rate-of-return that would need to be offered to investors who got spooked. This is pretty much the textbook definition of "cutting off one's nose to spite the face".

Nothing about the US financial system works without that whole "full faith and credit" concept.

Exactly....it would drive other countries away and worse than all that, it would aid all of the effort that is being put forth to move away from the dollar as a safe haven currency and the international currency of choice. Both China and Russia are chomping at the bit.

More than all that, I guarantee that all other holders of US treasuries including you and me would lose everything. There would be the largest run on the largest bank in existence. The price of treasuries would plummet to provide a yield that is commensurate with the new risk (economics 101). The price of other risk weighted fixed income securities would also plummet as most bonds and dividend producing stocks are tied to the rates of return of treasury notes or 10 year bonds

IMHO the damage would bankrupt the US.

But feel free to carry on with mental follies.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

If we didnt spend money like a drunken teenager with daddy's credit card 99.99% of the time on everything, it wouldnt hurt the national debt by helping americans in a time of crisis, yet here we are, $22T in debt and counting.

 

[Nik H]

If we didnt spend money like a drunken teenager with daddy's credit card 99.99% of the time on everything, it wouldnt hurt the national debt by helping americans in a time of crisis, yet here we are, $22T in debt and counting.

Right on

I read something recently that said the 22 Trillion is BS and it is actually 4-5X that.

 

[Inifinty]

Tarriff them to cover the expense.. they can't cut and run from their exports to the US on day one.

If they do well so what. While that line of goods dwindles start manufacturing our own.

 

[Nik H]

Tarriff them to cover the expense.. they can't cut and run from their exports to the US on day one.

If they do well so what. While that line of goods dwindles start manufacturing our own.

What do we do during the 10-15 years that takes?

If this were easy even the jack-ass Obama would have done it. None of this is easy. It is like trying to put rubber bands around water

 

[W54/XM-388]

Right on

I read something recently that said the 22 Trillion is BS and it is actually 4-5X that.

It depends a lot on what you count as "debt"

If you add in all the supposedly guaranteed entitlements and pensions, then it's unreal in size.

 

[Longshot231]

Tarriff them to cover the expense.. they can't cut and run from their exports to the US on day one.

If they do well so what. While that line of goods dwindles start manufacturing our own.

That's a good start but they would only raise tariffs on our goods like they have done for the past 4 decades.

There are no easy answers but look at it this way.

If you were hungry and there was a bowl of food on the table and some jackass came along and pissed in it, are you going to eat it or shove it down his throat after you've pounded his head in the concrete?

China has been pissing in our Wheaties ever since Nixon extended an olive branch to them.

We're paying for there lying and cheating with the health and well-being of our loved ones right now.

Everyone should ask themselves if you will feel any differently if you have a loved one die because of the China virus that they lied about and didn't contain.

You might feel the same as the widow of a sailor who had been killed at Pearl Harbor. You would have been pissed had Roosevelt offered to make peace with the Japanese. You would have been pissed if you found out that we had a bomb which could have ended the war early and saved a million American lives but Truman chose not to use it.

People who have never studied WWII or even knew someone who fought in the war look at films of French women getting their heads shaved and swastikas inked on their foreheads with disgust.

They wonder how can someone do that to a woman who had a husband or boyfriend who was a German soldier.

If your father, brother or husband had been tortured and killed by the Gestapo in occupied France, you would feel a little differently about watching a collaborator getting their punishment.

I got in a lot of fist fights with bullies cause I got tired of getting shoved around. Did I relish the idea of taking on someone twice my size? Hell no but I had no choice.

I was either going to live on my knees or die on my feet. I found out that the mother-fucking bullies had glass jaws and I could fight just as dirty as they did.

I got hurt doing it but I also kept them off my back after a few fights that damn near killed a couple of them. I would do it all over again.

It was costly and painful to fight back. I won't lie, it hurt my fists just as much as it hurt my head. Yet there was something important that came out of the course of action that I chose to take. The bullies stopped messing with me when they found out that they could get hurt and hurt bad.

China is a bully that needs to have their jaw reset with a crowbar. Refusing to pay off the T-bills is the crowbar to do it. It could hurt us but not as much as letting those commie bastards get away with killing thousands of people by lying, cheating and refusing to take action to control their virus.

 

[camotoe]

Who saved China from the Japanese empire during ww2......



We don't owe them a goddamn thing.




It was dirty politics that sold part of America into China's hands. Look there

 

[pmclaine]

Because of this terrible battle virus, the whole world has come to its knees. Small businesses around the world have suffered greatly and this isn't the end. My partners went bankrupt and closed down in debt. My friends from collections company told me terrible stories about the situation of citizens. Over the past week, they bought 20,000 loans and are now working on them. Everyone who has ever encountered collectors understands how serious people there work under the protection of a team of professional lawyers. Absolutely none of my partners received support from the state and on the contrary were driven into debt for life. Be careful with loans in such a difficult period of life and I wish everyone good health.

Correction....

Its not the virus that destroyed the economies....It was governments.

 

[Maggot]

You risk damage to the United States credit rating, so no, not a good idea to just take money from bonds that were bought by the Chinese

I do love how Trump keeps publicly referring to the virus as 'The Chinese Virus' and that is pissing off the SJW

I think everyone needs get on board with this and ask China to pay for the damage they have caused worldwide, and be dicks about it

I also think we need to bring manufacturing capabilities for FUCKING EVERYTHING back to US soil just so we break that dependence. Not saying to be an isolationist or be an island, just saying have some capability on US soil to maintain national security over things like common meds not made here any more.

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[atepointer]

The fault with the spread of COVID-19 virus can be laid squarely at the feet of the Chinese Communists.

The cost of paying for treatment, lost jobs, damage to US business and industry as well as other measures to fight the China Virus is staggering.

Some people are opposed to the Federal government writing checks to US citizens who cannot pay their bills because of business closures. I will say this much. We spend billions of dollars helping other people in other countries. Some of those countries hate us and are hell-bent on destroying us.

So why should we not be helping our own?

One argument against sending money to US citizens suffering as a result of the virus is that it would increase the national debt.

One answer to mitigating that addition to the national debt is to make the Chinese pay for it.

Okay, I will give you a few minutes to stop laughing.

Are you done laughing? Good. Read on.

The Chinese, as of January 2020, hold about 1.08 trillion dollars in Treasury Securities. Now that you know that, you probably are beginning to think the same thing that I am contemplating.

Let's just tell the Chinese that we are not going to honor those securities. In other words, those T-bills are worthless to the Chinese. We should not have to pay them back and that will reduce our national debt by 16% for the T-bills and overall by 4.7%.

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

If you feel the way I do, contact our elected officials and tell them to cancel all the treasury securities held by China.

https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

Japan is the #1 net purchaser of our Treasuries and while they are not a defacto enemy of the US in the fashion China is.....at it's most basic level China is is making a tactical decision to buy our Treasuries they don't do it b/c they feel generous. Balance of payments...imports/exports....capital inflows/outflows. When China experiences a trade surplus they absolutely MUST run a capital account deficit. China is dependent on exports for the time being.....and damn my mind spins at that game of chicken on what could transpire by simply cutting that off. I know much smarter people will lay out the potential repercussions of a move like that if it's something politicians are truly considering and I'd be all ears. Whew. Just on the surface what do you think would happen here in the US if that broad sweeping move was made to cut them off? The entire planet is being run by central bankers finger banging various cornholes and it's a friggin mess already it's a race to the bottom. If you can walk out a series of events how your suggestion would play out I'd welcome some more details.

 

[E. Bryant]

Correction....

Its not the virus that destroyed the economies....It was governments.

"The economy" (in so much that it exists as a singular entity) destroyed itself... or rather it sculpted itself into something that lacked robustness. It became a reflection of its participants - engaged in a lot of meaningless activity in pursuit of short-term gain. Hopefully we'll rebuild something tougher on our way out of this mess, but I doubt it; the first and only policy prescription remains more debt, and then more debt on top of that.

 

[Longshot231]

Japan is the #1 net purchaser of our Treasuries and while they are not a defacto enemy of the US in the fashion China is.....at it's most basic level China is is making a tactical decision to buy our Treasuries they don't do it b/c they feel generous. Balance of payments...imports/exports....capital inflows/outflows. When China experiences a trade surplus they absolutely MUST run a capital account deficit. China is dependent on exports for the time being.....and damn my mind spins at that game of chicken on what could transpire by simply cutting that off. I know much smarter people will lay out the potential repercussions of a move like that if it's something politicians are truly considering and I'd be all ears. Whew. Just on the surface what do you think would happen here in the US if that broad sweeping move was made to cut them off?

You said a lot. By cutting them off, do you mean refusing to accept Chinese exports or impose severe import tarriffs? If so, then I'm not denying that there will be a lot of pain.

We have made ourselves just as dependent on the Chinese as they are of us. It's like a very bad marriage. One partner wants everything their way. The other partner (afraid of pissing her off) bends over backward so much that they can see the back of their shoes.

Guess which marriage partner we are. Just like a bad marriage; we cannot afford to stay in it and it's going to cost a lot to get out of it.

We could draw a line down and sheet of paper with the plus sign on one side and a negative sign on the other. We could list all the possible courses of action we could take to deal with the Chinese and each outcome will cost us a lot. Also keep in mind that any course of action that we choose will cost the Chinese a lot.

The difference between us and them is that most of our people are pussies and like cheap ass Walmart shit. It's like opium to them. The Chinese people are use to living a spartan lifestyle. The leading party members, on the other hand, have it pretty good and don't give two Hershey squirts about the people. So they are willing to deal with whatever pain will be inflicted on their people to stay in power.

On the other hand, the Walmart addicts can't stand it if there's a ten cent price increase on argyle socks. They will vote for anyone who promises prosperity at any cost. Some republicans as well as almost all democrats piss their pants when mention of retaliation against the Chinese comes up in conversation.

A mosquito has bigger balls than those politicians. So it comes down to a test of wills. As Americans we have to ask ourselves; is it better to kiss a Chinese ass and get cheap Walmart shit or be self reliant, independent and not have someone farting in our face when we bend over and pucker our lips?

 

[pmclaine]

"The economy" (in so much that it exists as a singular entity) destroyed itself... or rather it sculpted itself into something that lacked robustness. It became a reflection of its participants - engaged in a lot of meaningless activity in pursuit of short-term gain. Hopefully we'll rebuild something tougher on our way out of this mess, but I doubt it; the first and only policy prescription remains more debt, and then more debt on top of that.

I agree that the "economic foundation" of our economy had a bunch of systemic problems in that it rewarded bad behavior for short term gain. Its musical chairs except we we are not one chair short, it was more like only half the chairs would be available when the music stopped.

Still though our current economy collapse was not driven by any economic data on say the date of January 15, times were good, its the result of government reaction to the virus after say Jan 31.

Prolonging this shit is making it inevitable that small business will fail.

The death has been horrible but the fallout from the response is going to be much worse in terms of its impact to the quality of everyone's life.

The best outcome we can hope for now is that the People have woke to the danger of foreign controlled supply chains, inadequate domestic manufacturing and most importantly of all, the readiness of our government to over reach and interfere in the exercise of your freedom.

 

[E. Bryant]

China is dependent on exports for the time being.....and damn my mind spins at that game of chicken on what could transpire by simply cutting that off. I know much smarter people will lay out the potential repercussions of a move like that if it's something politicians are truly considering and I'd be all ears. Whew. Just on the surface what do you think would happen here in the US if that broad sweeping move was made to cut them off?

Flat-out, it would suck. The ripple effects would be enormous; we don't make our own pharmaceutical "precursors", printed circuit boards, zinc die-cast parts... the list goes on. We would cripple many areas of the economy, and some would be quite unexpected.

But we're at a crossroads. We can either rip the band-aid off during peacetime, put to work all these unemployed people and this printed money building the US back up to a self-sufficient entity, and end up stronger. If there truly is work that we can't do in the US - and I remain skeptical that such a thing exists - then we should leverage our relationship with a variety of countries around the world that are strategic allies and whom maintain some level of human rights. Or we can continue the current state of affairs until we really get bent over a barrel. Imagine what happens if we're still dependent on Chinese imports when they invade Taiwan, expand into the Middle East, sink one of our ships, or maybe just play some games by closing the South China Sea.

The resistance to such a plan would come from the parasites that have become rich by sucking money from the American consumer and siphoning off their cut before sending the rest to the Communist dictatorship. That's a fair swath of politicians on both sides of the aisle as well as the most influential business leaders. The amount of coercion required likely far exceeds the pain threshold of the American public, so I'm pessimistic about the likelihood of improvement.

 

[atepointer]

You said a lot. By cutting them off, do you mean refusing to accept Chinese exports or impose severe import tarriffs? If so, then I'm not denying that there will be a lot of pain.

We have made ourselves just as dependent on the Chinese as they are of us. It's like a very bad marriage. One partner wants everything their way. The other partner (afraid of pissing her off) bends over backward so much that they can see the back of their shoes.

Guess which marriage partner we are. Just like a bad marriage; we cannot afford to stay in it and it's going to cost a lot to get out of it.

We could draw a line down and sheet of paper with the plus sign on one side and a negative sign on the other. We could list all the possible courses of action we could take to deal with the Chinese and each outcome will cost us a lot. Also keep in mind that any course of action that we choose will cost the Chinese a lot.

The difference between us and them is that most of our people are pussies and like cheap ass Walmart shit. It's like opium to them. The Chinese people are use to living a spartan lifestyle. The leading party members, on the other hand, have it pretty good and don't give two Hershey squirts about the people. So they are willing to deal with whatever pain will be inflicted on their people to stay in power.

On the other hand, the Walmart addicts can't stand it if there's a ten cent price increase on argyle socks. They will vote for anyone who promises prosperity at any cost. Some republicans as well as almost all democrats piss their pants when mention of retaliation against the Chinese comes up in conversation.

A mosquito has bigger balls than those politicians. So it comes down to a test of wills. As Americans we have to ask ourselves; is it better to kiss a Chinese ass and get cheap Walmart shit or be self reliant, independent and not have someone farting in our face when we bend over and pucker our lips?

Any of it but specifically meant your statement about tell the Chicoms to pound sand on notes they own. But to further that yes even stiff arming Chinese goods. As you stated the American people are addicted to crack and I can't imagine a political career would survive the afternoon long enough to clean out their office and head home to search linkedin for a new job. When the repercussions of such a move were truly understood by the voting population as a whole IMO the idea would fold up fast. I've said many times I'm happy to pay $2k for that new tv vs the $500 now if it means we made it here and I'm shoving money into an American workers pocket...that's a 'tax' I can live with.

I could be dead wrong, but if I live long enough to see a politician stand up and say they are going to push these ideas....wow I wouldn't be more shocked if I woke up the a 3rd arm growing out of my ear hole tomorrow morning. There would be American citizens going absolutely crazy and Chinese citizens obeying their overlords finding a way to make it through the day. My bet would be on the Chinese outlasting the sufferfest.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be for a complete 180 in how we operate b/c it sickens me where we are just nauseating, but I'd need a lot more time to simmer on all the different ways this could play out. 2009 was when I gave up the idea we could stop it.....my desires to do so are even higher now, but I feel it's total commit ot the bottom now and a lot of that is so many American's weakness for discomfort. Heck it might work and I'd feel a lot better if I had a crystal ball to see what the final straw will be in the debt instrument bonfire that is awaiting down the road.....is it possible to avoid it at this point? Not throwing your idea in the shredder just want to hear all the thoughts on it and let it percolate......I'm slow and need time to digest!

 

[E. Bryant]

Still though our current economy collapse was not driven by any economic data on say the date of January 15, times were good, its the result of government reaction to the virus after say Jan 31.

I largely agree with the bulk of your post, but I disagree that "times were good" prior to the virus. They had the appearance of being good, but the foundation was shaking and really there were any number of potential upsets that could have sent things tumbling.

Hell, remove the Fed stimulus from Nov. '19, stop the CV from spreading, and I wouldn't be surprised if the stock market wouldn't be even lower than it is at this moment.

 

[Longshot231]

Any of it but specifically meant your statement about tell the Chicoms to pound sand on notes they own. But to further that yes even stiff arming Chinese goods. As you stated the American people are addicted to crack and I can't imagine a political career would survive the afternoon long enough to clean out their office and head home to search linkedin for a new job. When the repercussions of such a move were truly understood by the voting population as a whole IMO the idea would fold up fast. I've said many times I'm happy to pay $2k for that new tv vs the $500 now if it means we made it here and I'm shoving money into an American workers pocket...that's a 'tax' I can live with.

I could be dead wrong, but if I live long enough to see a politician stand up and say they are going to push these ideas....wow I wouldn't be more shocked if I woke up the a 3rd arm growing out of my ear hole tomorrow morning. There would be American citizens going absolutely crazy and Chinese citizens obeying their overlords finding a way to make it through the day. My bet would be on the Chinese outlasting the sufferfest.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be for a complete 180 in how we operate b/c it sickens me where we are just nauseating, but I'd need a lot more time to simmer on all the different ways this could play out. 2009 was when I gave up the idea we could stop it.....my desires to do so are even higher now, but I feel it's total commit ot the bottom now and a lot of that is so many American's weakness for discomfort. Heck it might work and I'd feel a lot better if I had a crystal ball to see what the final straw will be in the debt instrument bonfire that is awaiting down the road.....is it possible to avoid it at this point? Not throwing your idea in the shredder just want to hear all the thoughts on it and let it percolate......I'm slow and need time to digest!

It sounds like we agree on the same thing but the difference is how much and how fast will we act to get out of this bad marriage.

 

[Jscb1b]

Why don't we quit hiding under the fucking bed? Throw out the politicians. Tar and feather the media. And get back to work.

 

[atepointer]

It sounds like we agree on the same thing but the difference is how much and how fast will we act to get out of this bad marriage.

I look at say The Squad and their brand of crazy.....is that how this would come to D.C. in one of the chambers? Or is it a Presidential platform idea to run on? I don't even know where/who the authority resides with to make such a decision. Would that fall under Presidential powers?

 

[pmclaine]

I largely agree with the bulk of your post, but I disagree that "times were good" prior to the virus. They had the appearance of being good, but the foundation was shaking and really there were any number of potential upsets that could have sent things tumbling.

Hell, remove the Fed stimulus from Nov. '19, stop the CV from spreading, and I wouldn't be surprised if the stock market wouldn't be even lower than it is at this moment.

We had the upside of the China trade deal, which probably brought on bio war.

Trumps biggest failing has been his failure to reign in anything fiscally.

Thing is though he has been fighting every faction for survival for three years.

With a robust economy for the next year which I think was possible re-election was a no brainer. As a lame duck I think he takes the gloves off and we would get some improvement fiscally.

Still think he has a good chance at re-election but that depends on shit like mail in voting and other fraud schemes.

It looks like 49 states, not MA, will open and the conomy should start ramping up.

There can't be anymore stimulus only production.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

1. And when we do that, who continues to buy the treasuries being that China buys most of them?
2. What happens to the US when we can't sell securities to anyone because we defaulted?

Orrrrr.....

We default on the Chinese held bonds.

We stop borrowing money and Congress can start acting like the responsible adults they like to pretend they are.

 

[Nik H]

Orrrrr.....

We default on the Chinese held bonds.

We stop borrowing money and Congress can start acting like the responsible adults they like to pretend they are.

AND

Monkeys will fly out my butt.

I agree with you but it won't happen until....

Monkeys fly out my butt.