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Chinese Army Unit Is Seen as Attacking US

Phil1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 3, 2009
465
7
Minot N.D.
19 February 2013 Last updated at 08:24 ET
China military unit 'behind prolific hacking'

A secretive branch of China's military is probably one of the world's "most prolific cyber espionage groups", a US cyber security firm has said.

Mandiant said Unit 61398 was believed to have "systematically stolen hundreds of terabytes of data" from at least 141 organisations around the world.

It traced the attacks to the doorstep of a non-descript building in Shanghai used by the unit.

China denied hacking and questioned the validity of Mandiant's report.
'Extensive cyber espionage'

"Hacking attacks are transnational and anonymous," said foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei.

"Determining their origins are extremely difficult. We don't know how the evidence in this so-called report can be tenable.

Mr Hong added that Beijing "firmly opposes hacking", has taken steps to prevent it and is also a victim of cyber attacks.

In an indication of the military sensitivity around the Shanghai site, the BBC's John Sudworth and his camera crew were briefly detained by soldiers when they went to film the facility. They were only released once they had handed over their footage.

In its unusually detailed report, US-based computer security company Mandiant said it had investigated hundreds of data breaches since 2004, most of which it attributed to what it termed "Advanced Persistent Threat" actors.

The details it had uncovered, it said, "convince us that the groups conducting these activities are based primarily in China and that the Chinese government is aware of them".

The most prolific of these actors is APT1, which Mandiant says is "a single organisation of operators that has conducted a cyber espionage campaign against a broad range of victims since at least 2006".

"From our observations, it is one of the most prolific cyber espionage groups in terms of the sheer quantity of information stolen," it said, adding that it was "likely government-sponsored and one of the most persistent of China's cyber threat actors".

"We believe that APT1 is able to wage such a long-running and extensive cyber espionage campaign in large part because it receives direct government support," said Mandiant.

The firm said it had traced the hacking activities of APT1 to the site of 12-storey building in the Pudong area of Shanghai. It said that Unit 61398 of the People's Liberation Army "is also located in precisely the same area" and that the actors had similar "missions, capabilities and resources".

Among the findings about APT1 in the report were that it:

is staffed by hundreds, possibly thousands, of proficient English speakers with advanced computer security and networking skills
has hacked into 141 companies across 20 industries, 87% based in English-speaking countries, and is able to steal from dozens of networks simultaneously
has stolen hundreds of terabytes of information including blueprints, business plans, pricing documents, user credentials, emails and contact lists
stayed inside hacked networks for an average of 356 days, with the longest lasting 1,764 days
targeted industries identified by China as strategically important under its Five Year Plan for economic growth

'Groundless'

Unit 61398 has for some time been suspected by the US of being central to China's cyber espionage programme, the New York Times reports.

Mandiant admitted there could be one alternative explanation for its findings: that "a secret, resourced organisation full of mainland Chinese speakers with direct access to Shanghai-based telecommunications infrastructure is engaged in a multi-year, enterprise scale computer espionage campaign right outside of Unit 61398's gates, performing tasks similar to Unit 61398's known mission".

Several governments, foreign companies and organisations have said in the past they suspect China of carrying out extensive cyber espionage over periods of several years.

Last month, the New York Times said its systems had been infiltrated over a period of four months, after it wrote a report on the alleged wealth of China's outgoing Premier Wen Jiabao.

Mandiant, which the paper hired to investigate, traced the hack to China. However, the paper said its breach had been attributed to a different group. The Wall Street Journal also reported a China-based hack.

At the time, China's foreign ministry dismissed the New York Times accusations as "groundless", saying that to "conclude without hard evidence that China participated in such hacking attacks is totally irresponsible".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-21502088

The NY Times story on the same group:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/techno...l-home&_r=0
 
SSDD. This has been going on for years, the Chinese have a dedicated unit that does nothing but bang on corp and security infrastructure all day everyday to exploit various security vectors and steal information.
 
SSDD. This has been going on for years, the Chinese have a dedicated unit that does nothing but bang on corp and security infrastructure all day everyday to exploit various security vectors and steal information.

The French have been notorious for corporate espionage for years. I guess when you don't have to worry about spending more than 7 cents a year for national defense, you can allocate your "security" resources to stealing other people's business advantage!

But to be sure, few people fear the French. Same can't be said of the Chinese.
 
I'm not the most knowledgeable expert on networking but I will say this. While we are still on IPv4 all their IP addresses are in what is known as AP-NIC. All of ours are in ARIN, American Registry for Internet Numbers. I know of at least one way around this if you have some help elsewhere, but it seems like simply denying traffic from all their IP addresses until proven innocent would be a good start. I asked about why we were not doing this years ago when I worked for a fairly large local government that had Chinese IP addresses beating on the firewall every day. The only safe computer isn't connected to a network, and again that is only if nobody can physically touch it.
 
It's typical of the Communist to denounce the Western Hemisphere while at the same time trying to copy every Western technological advantage they can.

It's akin to that one kid on the school playground that doesn't have the toys all the other kids have, so he feels left out, and decides to steal it instead.

But then you also have the people that feel sorry for the kid, and continue to let him steal their stuff.
 
I know of at least one way around this if you have some help elsewhere, but it seems like simply denying traffic from all their IP addresses until proven innocent would be a good start.

You do this, and way too many American companies would start screaming because they would effectively be shut down. This would have untold economic consequences. While I'm not particularly sympathetic to this concern, there are a lot of Powers That Be who depend on such companies to fill their campaign coffers and thus would never allow such a thing to happen.

The US is in quite a pickle for a couple other reasons:

1) It's pretty hard to mount any effective attack against China when they still hold a trillion or so dollars of our debt.

2) The US is also no angel with regards to cyberspace - we helped unleash Stuxnet and Flame into the wild, and have also been thought to been spying on foreign corporations since the days of Echelon.

I'd like to think that the US could use these attacks as justification to level any Chinese infrastructure thought to be used in these ongoing attacks, but sadly that does not seem possible :(
 
We won't do anything, because we can't. China holds over One TRillion dollars worth of TBills and buys more at every auction. If they dumped even a fraction of them on the currency market it would begin a chain reaction that would kill our currency in days, plunging us into hyperinflation and the collapse of our economy, along with some others if they dont dump their dollars as well. They are unlikely to do that because we are their biggest market/customer, but they could do it anytime they want and we know it. Since communists are not well known for acting in the best interest of their own citizens (or they would be capitalists) this is a real threat since the politburo will do most anything to stay in power if pushed too hard. So we don't push. In fact we pander. The Chinese have been attacking military facilities for awhile, they have shut down computer systems on bases multiple times.

A cold war with the Chinese is one sided because we have far more to lose. Other nations would jump in dumping dollars if the Chinese kicked it off so we couldn't even blame china for economic sabotage. Indeed we have no one to blame but ourselves. Our debt policy is akin to going to the local mafia loan shark...a loan shark with nuclear weapons.

The problem is getting exponentially worse since by the end of this presidential term we will have tripled our national debt in only 8 years.

If I lived in Taiwan I would move. I believe it will be fully Chinese in the next 20 years if not sooner.
 
We won't do anything, because we can't. China holds over One TRillion dollars worth of TBills and buys more at every auction. If they dumped even a fraction of them on the currency market it would begin a chain reaction that would kill our currency in days, plunging us into hyperinflation and the collapse of our economy, along with some others if they dont dump their dollars as well. They are unlikely to do that because we are their biggest market/customer, but they could do it anytime they want and we know it. Since communists are not well known for acting in the best interest of their own citizens (or they would be capitalists) this is a real threat since the politburo will do most anything to stay in power if pushed too hard. So we don't push. In fact we pander. The Chinese have been attacking military facilities for awhile, they have shut down computer systems on bases multiple times.

A cold war with the Chinese is one sided because we have far more to lose. Other nations would jump in dumping dollars if the Chinese kicked it off so we couldn't even blame china for economic sabotage. Indeed we have no one to blame but ourselves. Our debt policy is akin to going to the local mafia loan shark...a loan shark with nuclear weapons.

The problem is getting exponentially worse since by the end of this presidential term we will have tripled our national debt in only 8 years.

If I lived in Taiwan I would move. I believe it will be fully Chinese in the next 20 years if not sooner.

While I agree with you on Taiwan, I do not agree about our position with the absurd debt the Reds "Own". Unlike most client/provider or employee/employer relationship, we have a decidedly strong position where it would not be so if the other parasite based economies weren't still so much worse than our own.

Of course this isn't to say we aren't too far gone down that road. But while western Europe and some other nations continue to hemorrhage even more money earned by productive people to subsidize the patrons of the government classes, than we do, proportionally speaking, the dollar remains the world's reserve currency. It can't last indefinitely and there is still hope that the ignorami in this country can stop being so intellectually indolent and turn things around.

Sadly, telling people they don't have a right to bear arms but do have the right to get 6 months paid leave to nurse their house plants back to health is considered entirely reasonable today. This is no small problem.

As to the Chinese, they are our adversaries. This global partner horse shit is for the dupes. while what passes for poverty in this country is the envy of 2/3rds of the world, the Chinese have roughly 750 million people who don't know if they'll eat today. This is not something the Chinese government is unconcerned about and explains their duplicity in actively seeking to steal patent, copyright and other intellectual proerty while denouncing those who accuse them of doing so.

They are in grave economic peril if they do anything so stupid as to actively fuck with our economy. This is why they delegate the counterfeiting operation of their kleptocracy to North Korea rather than do it themselves! If they were so concerned about us inflating our debt into worthlessness, they'd have stopped their subcontracting North Koreans long ago.

Not to say the Chinese won't do something out of hubris, greed or stupidity but calling in the debt ain't going to happen.
 
You do this, and way too many American companies would start screaming because they would effectively be shut down. This would have untold economic consequences. :(

I understand what you are saying. What I said flies in the face of ITIL and change management and all the other horsecrap. That's why I said guilty until proven innocent. And then specific routes could be opened to those actually needing communication rather than the entirety. Give them a blanket party, ok? Hell, it certainly wouldn't be the first time an ISP went down if suddenly some traffic wasn't reaching it's destination. And I'm not talking about blocking traffic within the ISP. I am talking about having network infrastructure facing the ISP where you can drop the traffic you choose.

I don't know anything about whether or not the energy producing industry needs something from China. If they're trying to hack the power grid it would seem smart to me to drop any kind of packets coming from that area of the world. I don't think my local government needs to accept any traffic from China, or Ghana/Nigeria for that matter.

To put it a little more close to home for all of us, does Snipershide really need to accept traffic from China? If the answer is no AND there is at least a router between this server(s) and the ISP all the traffic could be dropped. This could impact performance for actual users if the hardware can't handle the load, but I'm just using this as an example.
 
QQ I hope you are right for the long term, and you are definitely right..for now. Then again, Mao killed 70 million Chinese to gain/keep power, just like the Kims in NK kill millions through starvation as we speak. I do not consider placing the security of future American generations in the hands of such people to be good policy; I'm sure you agree.

I believe our currency will lose its reserve status, but not to an existing currency because of the problems you noted. I expect that other nations will start trading with a basket currency of some sort, some new UN agreement or economic union ala the EU but much more narrowly defined, that will create trade between nations based on a medium that is pegged to several existing major currencies. Such a "currency" would diversify the risk inherent in a single existing reserve currency and take away the good deal that is exclusively ours for now. The EU, the third world, and of course the Russians and Chinese would all like to see the center of economic power shift back to Eurasia. I'm not sure what debt level it will take to push them to do this...$25T? $30T? I don't know, but we are gonna find out unless we make some drastic changes in economic policy. I do not believe that we will ever make those changes, in fact I believe we will only accelerate the debt creation. One way or another, either through voluntary massive cuts in spending or by the hyperinflation that will occur when we lose reserve status and those dollars come flooding home, we are going to see drastic changes in America in our lifetime. Incidentally, that will be an especially unfortunate time to be unarmed because when there is economic chaos there is always political chaos as well. I think there will be quite a few history books written on the events of the next twenty five years. How we fare will be dependent on how closely we return to and adhere to the principles on which we were founded.