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Chronograph
- Thread starter Luna4570
- Start date
Garmin Xero C1 Pro chronograph
Caught a glimpse of it on a YouTubers Gap Grind video. Looks pretty nice. Anyone know more about it?
www.snipershide.com
My LabRadar works great, but my one gripe about it has been the size of the thing. It's just too unwieldy. When the Garmin becomes a little more available early next year, I'm going to get one. The ability to mount it off an Arca rail is game changing. Easier to transport, easier to set up, easier to use.
Of what you listed the Magnetospeed is better. The Lab Radar is more accurate than magnetospeed (as compared to big doppler heads) but trickier to get to trigger, sucks batteries, and is sometimes downright frustrating to use. The Xero if you can swing it is the way and the light.
I’ll go out on a limb here, but a CED or Caldwell is better than nothing. That being said, I just sprang for the Garmin Xero to replace my 20+ year old Ohler Pro Chronograph. The Ohler is great and still an industry stadard, but after replacing 3 sky screens and two sensors due to wind gusts. A radar unit was very attractive.
They all do the same basic things, balance YOUR budget with what your needs are. I do love the simplicity, size, and utility of the Garmin but it comes at a monetary cost.
They all do the same basic things, balance YOUR budget with what your needs are. I do love the simplicity, size, and utility of the Garmin but it comes at a monetary cost.
I have a Magnetospeed v3 and I like it because it easy to use and if your on a busy range you don’t have to wait for others to be done to go get your chrono. Yeah it’s not as small as the Garmin but that doesn’t really bother me… it works just as good with measuring speed
Unless you wouldn't be able to afford it regardless, just save up another couple months and get a Garmin.
There's very few products that work so well upon release that it renders all other products close to obsolete or not worthy buying. The Garmin is one of those. I'd tell people you can buy a Zero Press for luxury, but a Rock Chucker still works almost as well. I do not say this about any chronograph compared to Garmin.
That said, if all you care about is velocity readings and don't want to shoot groups at the same time, just get the magneto if you can't/don't want the garmin.
If you do want to shoot groups at same time and won't/can't get garmin, get a cheap Labrador off the PX and get a recoil trigger. The recoil trigger will save you significant time and headache of getting the chrono pointed in the right direction to pick up shots via microphone.
There's very few products that work so well upon release that it renders all other products close to obsolete or not worthy buying. The Garmin is one of those. I'd tell people you can buy a Zero Press for luxury, but a Rock Chucker still works almost as well. I do not say this about any chronograph compared to Garmin.
That said, if all you care about is velocity readings and don't want to shoot groups at the same time, just get the magneto if you can't/don't want the garmin.
If you do want to shoot groups at same time and won't/can't get garmin, get a cheap Labrador off the PX and get a recoil trigger. The recoil trigger will save you significant time and headache of getting the chrono pointed in the right direction to pick up shots via microphone.
I recently purchased a Magnetospeed V3. While there are some downsides to it, I have found it to be very reliable and I am overall happy with it. It has also had no issues detecting small caliber subsonic projectiles with its adjustable sensitivity.
For my use at this time, I'm just looking at velocity. Ladder testing and bullets. Did not need anything very fancy. Thanks for info
I would definitely vote for a used Labradar. People are going crazy over the new Garmin and dumping perfectly good Labradar’s at good prices. If you look, you can even find new ones for sale for not much more than a Magnetospeed.
Set up is easier, accuracy if pretty darned decent.
Spent years working with sky screen chronos. Basically you shut down the range and spend anywhere from ten to 20 minutes getting it right, if you are lucky. Then if the sun isn’t right, the shed over the range shuts down the light, etc, etc, they don’t work half the time. Still, better than nothing. Owned a Magneto screen, Took a while getting it lined up but once lined up, it worked ok. Kept getting loose, no matter how hard I tried to get it tight. One day, without my knowing, came loose and my .35 Whelen, shooting full house loads with 748 powder, pretty much rendered it useless. Called Magneto speed, explained what happened, they thanked me for being honest, said NO they don’t offer replacement parts but “generously” offered me a 15% discount on another. I was not terribly happy. True, the entire incident was my fault. That said, let it go, but also let purchasing another go as well. Let my bucks speak
Caveat, many, many folks swear by the Magneto Speed and swear at the Labradar. Our son and I share a Labradar and I admit, it’s been the best chrono I have used, not just for accuracy, not just for ease of use and yes, it is big, but I am a big boy. Chrono’s? I am on my fourth, the Garmin may be the best thing since sliced bread, but if it ain’t broke, I tend to leave it alone. Enough said about our Labradar, it ain’t broke.
Set up is easier, accuracy if pretty darned decent.
Spent years working with sky screen chronos. Basically you shut down the range and spend anywhere from ten to 20 minutes getting it right, if you are lucky. Then if the sun isn’t right, the shed over the range shuts down the light, etc, etc, they don’t work half the time. Still, better than nothing. Owned a Magneto screen, Took a while getting it lined up but once lined up, it worked ok. Kept getting loose, no matter how hard I tried to get it tight. One day, without my knowing, came loose and my .35 Whelen, shooting full house loads with 748 powder, pretty much rendered it useless. Called Magneto speed, explained what happened, they thanked me for being honest, said NO they don’t offer replacement parts but “generously” offered me a 15% discount on another. I was not terribly happy. True, the entire incident was my fault. That said, let it go, but also let purchasing another go as well. Let my bucks speak
Caveat, many, many folks swear by the Magneto Speed and swear at the Labradar. Our son and I share a Labradar and I admit, it’s been the best chrono I have used, not just for accuracy, not just for ease of use and yes, it is big, but I am a big boy. Chrono’s? I am on my fourth, the Garmin may be the best thing since sliced bread, but if it ain’t broke, I tend to leave it alone. Enough said about our Labradar, it ain’t broke.
I'm not a big time shooter. About 400 rounds a year depending on how busy I am, and money wise. Semi retired. I have the bullets, so just working on my ladder test. Speed difference and grouping. Reason for chrono. No need for fancy expensive model. Thanks
Magneto will have an effect on grouping. Even with some of the systems that hold it off the barrel. You will at times see POI move away from wherever the bayonet is positioned. To be completely sure, you'll need to shoot twice the amount of rounds. With and without the bayonet.
Also, FWIW, velocity ladder testing is fairly worthless. Velocity "flat spots" are products of small sample size. The only thing a chrono helps with (other than checking for consistent/small SD) is knowing what speed a given charge weight is at.
True ladder testing is looking at POI at a certain distance when comparing different powder charges.
If I was buying new today it’d be the xero. Out of what you listed it be the magneto speed. It’s what I use now, and it does affect. Group sizes. But whatever group is smallest with it on, is smallest with it off.
I'm going to sell my LabRadar when the Garmin gets here. Thats about what I'll list it for. There's nothing wrong with a LabRadar for $200, mine works fine.
I guess I did not say it right, but yes, I was going to find which load was the most consistent for speed and grouping at 100 yards. When I shoot, bigger charge weights will equal bigger grouping. At certain point, settles down again. My 41.5 is smallest, with 43.6 next best. Groups opened up in between. Could the 43.5 have more consistent speed than 41.5, ( which i was looking gor) but might just need seating depth adjustments to get better groups. I'm I explaining this right? Thank you for info
The fundamental difference between Garmin and every other provider of similar products is that those other companies are technology companies - Garmin is fundamentally a product company. They don't just look at function, they put just as much emphasis on form and fit.
This also means that first-run products are much more baked.
I think what you're saying is Garmin employs software developers. Garmin is huge and is very much a technology company. Software sets them apart from the other doppler radar devices on the market.
Have a magneto speed, tried to use a buddy's lab radar but there was always some issue. Bought the Xero, opened it up, put it on the tripod, set it up next to the rifle, turned it on, set it up for my .22, without looking at the instructions. Recorded every shot for a couple boxes. It's worth the money, and is about the size of a charging brick for a laptop.
Actually, almost the opposite.
Software and technology are only one aspect of product development - and something every player needs to have. Newer (smaller) companies put an emphasis on these aspects and put less on the other aspects of building out a product: form, fit, function - related: usability, packaging, etc.
What I think sets Garmin apart is that they consider all aspects, if not equally, at least within the same ballpark. As you put it, Garmin is huge, and this affords them the luxury of having sizable UI/UX, usability, design, etc. departments that smaller players do not. I've used a host of Garmin products and this comes out in every one of them - from the little first-run handhold GPS I got decades ago, to the $15k Nav/Comm/GPS that I put in an aircraft I once owned. In all of them, form, fit, function all worked together to form a great product.
And before you think that just because a company is huge, they do this - this is not the case. There are plenty of huge companies that do not put an emphasis on all aspects of product development. Their technology is good, but the product is marginal. Relatively few people value the user experience from all sides - it takes direction and willingness from the top down to instill a product-driven culture. A lot of big companies fail in this department. What makes Apple so popular? Is it the technology of being able to put a high-res screen on a phone? No, plenty of companies do that. Apple sets itself apart by providing the best overall product experience.
Example:
LabRadar:
- Great technology - the thing does what it's supposed to and works well, especially for being the first to market with this class of product.
- Software - not bad. The onboard interface is a little clunky, but has most features. Mobile app, decent as well.
- Form factor - bad. Large profile that can get buffeted by muzzle blast. Difficult to set up and keep pointed on target. Pain in the ass to transport all the components.
- Battery life - bad. It eats AAs for lunch. You can't get through a few hours on one set. As such, it pretty much requires a separate battery pack.
- Durability - medium. I wouldn't want to drop this and wouldn't use it in the rain. Currently I have a part rattling around in mine - must not be that important...
Garmin
- Same technology - you need to have it to compete with the guys that were first to market.
- Software - I haven't used their app directly, but from the videos I've watched online, it looks to be better.
- Form factor - excellent. As mentioned above, this is why I'm getting one of these. Being able to put it into a pocket in your range bag and mount it to your pic or arca rail (off to the side) is amazing.
- Battery life - medium. They say 6 hours of radar
- Durability - looks to be excellent, time will tell
So, LabRadar rates in technology, but not so much in other aspects. Garmin rates pretty good across the board. That's the essence of the difference between a technology company and a product company.
That's fair. Admittedly, I don't have experience with Garmin aircraft systems. I do have experience with their handhelds going back to the mid 2000's and I use Garmin products daily. I think most of what I've bought from Garmin was not the first to the market, handhelds, watches, etc. I think in most cases Garmin had the luxury of entering established markets. With that said, what I like most about their devices is their development and support. My Fenix is two generations old and I still get updates. Suunto never offered me an update unless I bought a new watch.
My biggest complaint about LabRadar isn't the form factor, Frankly LabRadar is fairly compact compared to Ohler optical chronographs. My biggest gripe has always been software updates and the poor UI. LabRadar's UI isn't terrible but we live in a world with Apple, Android, Garmin, and others. There just isn't much room for a bad UI experience when you have the most advanced computer system in history in your pocket. Maybe that isn't fair to LabRadar but Garmin offered the market a chronograph the size of a GoPro with an up to date UI that will get further updated for the same money.
I think a LabRadar for around $200 is a really good value. Unfortunately competition got really fierce at the $600 tier.
I have used a couple of these for years. The original I have was $90 or so on Amazon but didnt have the bluetooth feature. It still works and a friend uses it now 10years later. I bought the one im linking to for the bluetooth feature. I didnt think itd matter but having it bluetooth to my phone is nice so I dont have to get up after every string plus the app you use logs every shot, gives you your spread and standard deviation, average and allows for weather inputs as well as cartridge info. Its nice I think and seems consistent. My only gripe is that when it gets around 30 deg out it will fail to read but I rarely need a chronograph at those cold temps. Ive never had a magneto speed but did have the more expensive caldwell that mounted upside down and it was always erroring out. the competition electronics are usa made if that helps in your decision.
ProChrono DLX
Chronograph Comparison Chart Instruction Manual . . Introducing the ProChrono DLX ballistic chronograph with improved accuracy specs and built-in Bluetooth The next generation of our ProChrono model based on a time proven design that has been measuring “almost anything that shoots” since...
competitionelectronics.com
I'm kind of leaning toward the MagnetoSpeed sport. Strap around barrel may loosen up, but Caldwell needs a sun shade, doesn't like wet weather, according to some shooters. Cons for both, tuff choice. Thanks for inputI have used a couple of these for years. The original I have was $90 or so on Amazon but didnt have the bluetooth feature. It still works and a friend uses it now 10years later. I bought the one im linking to for the bluetooth feature. I didnt think itd matter but having it bluetooth to my phone is nice so I dont have to get up after every string plus the app you use logs every shot, gives you your spread and standard deviation, average and allows for weather inputs as well as cartridge info. Its nice I think and seems consistent. My only gripe is that when it gets around 30 deg out it will fail to read but I rarely need a chronograph at those cold temps. Ive never had a magneto speed but did have the more expensive caldwell that mounted upside down and it was always erroring out. the competition electronics are usa made if that helps in your decision.
ProChrono DLX
Chronograph Comparison Chart Instruction Manual . . Introducing the ProChrono DLX ballistic chronograph with improved accuracy specs and built-in Bluetooth The next generation of our ProChrono model based on a time proven design that has been measuring “almost anything that shoots” since...competitionelectronics.com
Years ago I started out with a Prochrono and it was a bit of a hassle setting it up at public shooting ranges and the issue with lighting (like when clouds come it). I switched to the MagnetoSpeed v3 years ago as it was easier to set up and take down while the firing line was hot, but when shooting more than one gun adjustments had to be made depending on the caliber, dimension of the barrel and what was mounted on the muzzle end. It's not that the adjustments are hard to do, it just consumes a little time. Now that I've got the Garmin Xero C1, the initial set up doesn't take much more that 1 minute and in comparing it to my v3, it's just as accurate. The only hassle I have with the C1 is getting the data to my spreadsheet where I record all my loading and shooting stats for the guns I reload for.
For someone on a very tight budget, the Prochrono is a nice piece of equipment, IMHO. The v3 is great for its accuracy and that when it's set up properly, it never misses recording a shot, though it's about twice the cost of the Prochrono. I can't imagine a chrono being much better than the C1, other than its ability to transfer its data, which I expect Garmin will update the software in the near future to address that.
PS: It's always good to look towards the future and buy once and cry once, if one can.
What is the Prochrono?Years ago I started out with a Prochrono and it was a bit of a hassle setting it up at public shooting ranges and the issue with lighting (like when clouds come it). I switched to the MagnetoSpeed v3 years ago as it was easier to set up and take down while the firing line was hot, but when shooting more than one gun adjustments had to be made depending on the caliber, dimension of the barrel and what was mounted on the muzzle end. It's not that the adjustments are hard to do, it just consumes a little time. Now that I've got the Garmin Xero C1, the initial set up doesn't take much more that 1 minute and in comparing it to my v3, it's just as accurate. The only hassle I have with the C1 is getting the data to my spreadsheet where I record all my loading and shooting stats for the guns I reload for.
For someone on a very tight budget, the Prochrono is a nice piece of equipment, IMHO. The v3 is great for its accuracy and that when it's set up properly, it never misses recording a shot, though it's about twice the cost of the Prochrono. I can't imagine a chrono being much better than the C1, other than its ability to transfer its data, which I expect Garmin will update the software in the near future to address that.
PS: It's always good to look towards the future and buy once and cry once, if one can.
I have more or less private places to shoot, so setting something up not a big problem. So Caldwell does not like full sunlight? What about misty days? Is Prochrono the Caldwell Profesional ? C1? ThanksYears ago I started out with a Prochrono and it was a bit of a hassle setting it up at public shooting ranges and the issue with lighting (like when clouds come it). I switched to the MagnetoSpeed v3 years ago as it was easier to set up and take down while the firing line was hot, but when shooting more than one gun adjustments had to be made depending on the caliber, dimension of the barrel and what was mounted on the muzzle end. It's not that the adjustments are hard to do, it just consumes a little time. Now that I've got the Garmin Xero C1, the initial set up doesn't take much more that 1 minute and in comparing it to my v3, it's just as accurate. The only hassle I have with the C1 is getting the data to my spreadsheet where I record all my loading and shooting stats for the guns I reload for.
For someone on a very tight budget, the Prochrono is a nice piece of equipment, IMHO. The v3 is great for its accuracy and that when it's set up properly, it never misses recording a shot, though it's about twice the cost of the Prochrono. I can't imagine a chrono being much better than the C1, other than its ability to transfer its data, which I expect Garmin will update the software in the near future to address that.
PS: It's always good to look towards the future and buy once and cry once, if one can.
No optical chronograph works well in direct sunlight. Optical chronographs are the worst. I'd look at a magnetospeed at minimum. Seriously, I shot my last Pro Chrony with a shotgun. I was so fed up with that garbage. There's a point where your time loading ammo and dragging it to the range greatly exceeds the cost of the the shitty optical chronograph.
