Night Vision Clip ons clip ons clip ons!!!

[DownRangeThermal]

So, I will make a separate post soon. Yes, we finalized an exclusive deal at shot with EOTECH to bring in a limited quantity of a 12 micron version ( 83mm X-ELR) that recently won a contract with the UK MOD SILLS ( sniper inline low light sight) and Canadian SF. It competed against several other optics including utcxii and won. Price will be just shy of 16k. I'll post the data sheet soon but its 1280 oled display and 5.5ish FOV so should take more mag that the UTCxii. The X-elr was built for the SILLS contract which is paired with 338 AI and SB 5-25x56. 1.55 height 50 cal rated. 10 YEAR WARRANTY

There is also a 17mic 100 mm ELR version but there are no plans to import it at this time. We will start taking pre-orders next week.

 

[Vitali1342]

So, I will make a separate post soon. Yes, we finalized an exclusive deal at shot to bring in a limited quantity of a 12 micron version ( 83mm X-ELR) that recently won a contract with the UK MOD SILLS ( sniper inline low light sight) and Canadian SF. It competed against several other optics including utcxii and won. Price will be just shy of 16k. I'll post the data sheet soon but its 1280 oled display and 5.5ish FOV so should take more mag that the UTCxii. The X-elr was built for the SILLS contract which is paired with 338 AI and SB 5-25x56. 1.55 height 50 cal rated. 10 YEAR WARRANTY

There is also a 17mm 100 mm ELR version but there are no plans to import it at this time. We will start taking pre-orders next week.

Well I know @ The Horta getting at least two so put me in for a third in line

 

[rlsmith1]

So, I will make a separate post soon. Yes, we finalized an exclusive deal at shot to bring in a limited quantity of a 12 micron version ( 83mm X-ELR) that recently won a contract with the UK MOD SILLS ( sniper inline low light sight) and Canadian SF. It competed against several other optics including utcxii and won. Price will be just shy of 16k. I'll post the data sheet soon but its 1280 oled display and 5.5ish FOV so should take more mag that the UTCxii. The X-elr was built for the SILLS contract which is paired with 338 AI and SB 5-25x56. 1.55 height 50 cal rated. 10 YEAR WARRANTY

There is also a 17mm 100 mm ELR version but there are no plans to import it at this time. We will start taking pre-orders next week.

Collimated? Everything else sounds perfect

 

[Thermal Optics Plus]

The ClipIR and ClipIR-LR, best pics I could get , that ClipIR was up on top of the booth being fed to a screen.

 

[DownRangeThermal]

Collimated? Everything else sounds perfect

Of course....Going through the competitive process with SF entities would require such things. This is a MIL sight.

 

[TheHorta]

Hopefully EOTech doesn’t screw this up. They have a real shot at capturing some marketshare with these. I could be wrong, but I don’t see their Photonis alliance sparking significant interest at the same price point as L3’s marquee NV, but these thermals look like beasts!

 

[rlsmith1]

Of course....Going through the competitive process with SF entities would require such things. This is a MIL sight.

Sounded almost too good to be true. It's a beast size wise, probably weight too

 

[DownRangeThermal]

Sounded almost too good to be true. It's a beast size wise, probably weight too

You'll know its there. Like a pvs30 its built for prone shooting on heavy rifles.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

I'll take one, cash, jew gold, or CC.

 

[DownRangeThermal]

Hopefully EOTech doesn’t screw this up. They have a real shot at capturing some marketshare with these. I could be wrong, but I don’t see their Photonis alliance sparking significant interest at the same price point as L3’s marquee NV, but these thermals look like beasts!

They are committed to bringing great products to market and they have excellent people working there

 

[rlsmith1]

You'll know its there. Like a pvs30 its built for prone shooting on heavy rifles.

Just trying to talk my self out of spending $15k but it's not going so well!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Hopefully EOTech doesn’t screw this up. They have a real shot at capturing some marketshare with these. I could be wrong, but I don’t see their Photonis alliance sparking significant interest at the same price point as L3’s marquee NV, but these thermals look like beasts!

So I thought L3 waz a sista company to EOTECH. So why is EOTECH dissing the filmless L3 toobs now.

Is L3 starting to make the move that the plebs won't be getting filmless?

 

[WhereNow&How]

Just trying to talk my self out of spending $15k but it's not going so well!

3 Stout Shots of jagermeister and you won't feel any pain.

 

[jwramp]

View attachment 7790002View attachment 7790001The ClipIR and ClipIR-LR, best pics I could get , that ClipIR was up on top of the booth being fed to a screen.

Aww their sticker machine only had enough to put their logo on one of them.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Aww their sticker machine only had enough to put their logo on one of them.

Maybe Horta wants a special logo on his is why they left them bare.

 

[Conqueror]

If it's 12um and has a Risley then I am a lot more interested. Probably in for one. Man I am killing my wallet this year.

 

[jstokes1]

If it's 12um and has a Risley then I am a lot more interested. Probably in for one. Man I am killing my wallet this year.

Yep, sure is. That, plus a 83mm objective and a tiny FOV means this sucker will support tons of day time magnification

 

[rlsmith1]

So I thought L3 waz a sista company to EOTECH. So why is EOTECH dissing the filmless L3 toobs now.

Is L3 starting to make the move that the plebs won't be getting filmless?

L3Harris agrees to sell EOTech business | InsideDefense.com

L3Harris Technologies said today it has agreed to sell its EOTech business to American Holoptics, an affiliate of Koucar Management.

insidedefense.com

Looks like they sold Eotech a couple years ago. I hope Eotech using Elbit is a signal that Elbit might have filmless tech on the horizon. But that’s a different thread

 

[Totdoc]

Ok, so now there will be a very good option for long range shooting... now who is going to produce a top tier thermal for closer in engagements? Something smaller and lighter, for carbines with more limited rail space. Perhaps an updated cratos type device...

 

[TheHorta]

Ok, so now there will be a very good option for long range shooting... now who is going to produce a top tier thermal for closer in engagements? Something smaller and lighter, for carbines with more limited rail space. Perhaps an updated cratos type device...

That’s coming. Announcement soon.

 

[WhereNow&How]

That’s coming. Announcement soon.

First ones likely shipping to Hortaville USA.

 

[jwramp]

Ok, so now there will be a very good option for long range shooting... now who is going to produce a top tier thermal for closer in engagements? Something smaller and lighter, for carbines with more limited rail space. Perhaps an updated cratos type device...

That’s where I’m seeing the VooDooS fitting. On a 1-10 it fills the scope at 2x and looks great up to 4x or so of optical mag. Sure you can spot stuff at long distance with it, but the field of view and display resolution seem to be optimized for closer shooting.

 

[TheHorta]

That’s where I’m seeing the VooDooS fitting. On a 1-10 it fills the scope at 2x and looks great up to 4x or so of optical mag. Sure you can spot stuff at long distance with it, but the field of view and display resolution seem to be optimized for closer shooting.

And… it’s super cheap, so no excuse for not having one for each gun!

 

[Totdoc]

That’s coming. Announcement soon.

This is good news!

 

[WhereNow&How]

That’s where I’m seeing the VooDooS fitting. On a 1-10 it fills the scope at 2x and looks great up to 4x or so of optical mag. Sure you can spot stuff at long distance with it, but the field of view and display resolution seem to be optimized for closer shooting.

What would be your estimated farthest yards for shooting pigs.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Ok, so now there will be a very good option for long range shooting... now who is going to produce a top tier thermal for closer in engagements? Something smaller and lighter, for carbines with more limited rail space. Perhaps an updated cratos type device...

This is what I'm interested in. The yoter is fine for medium ranges I shoot at but it's a bit bulky/heavy for a carbine.

Something between Skeet and nox18 size/weight. No helmet mount, no reticles, no lasers....just the best clip-on performance in the smallest lightest package. A nox18 is 6k so I'd think this could be done <10k?

 

[Totdoc]

This is what I'm interested in. The yoter is fine for medium ranges I shoot at but it's a bit bulky/heavy for a carbine.

Something between Skeet and nox18 size/weight. No helmet mount, no reticles, no lasers....just the best clip-on performance in the smallest lightest package. A nox18 is 6k so I'd think this could be done <10k?

Speaking of the nox...I feel like the nox could pretty easily be changed over to a clip on role with a change of the back lens... possibly a minimal change to an already existing item to hit a really phenomenal performance to price ratio.
Given that the new theon elr unit looks to be delivering top tier elr performance for under 16k, I feel like the price point for a high performance short range clip should certainly be less.
I really think a high quality short range clip on in the 6-8k range should be doable, and would likely sell very well.
Now here is to hoping that something like that will materialize...

 

[EWS6]

Speaking of the nox...I feel like the nox could pretty easily be changed over to a clip on role with a change of the back lens... possibly a minimal change to an already existing item to hit a really phenomenal performance to price ratio.
Given that the new theon elr unit looks to be delivering top tier elr performance for under 16k, I feel like the price point for a high performance short range clip should certainly be less.
I really think a high quality short range clip on in the 6-8k range should be doable, and would likely sell very well.
Now here is to hoping that something like that will materialize...

that exists already

nox 18 + zero lens

Black Optex Zero Lens for PVS 14 NV Monocular Adapter | eBay

Wight w/ Mount The Zero Lens™ is a rugged, non-electronic, compact device that adds capability to your existing inventory of optics at a fraction of the cost of purchasing a standalone NV scope. Zero Lens.

www.ebay.com

 

[WhereNow&How]

that exists already

nox 18 + zero lens

Black Optex Zero Lens for PVS 14 NV Monocular Adapter | eBay

Wight w/ Mount The Zero Lens™ is a rugged, non-electronic, compact device that adds capability to your existing inventory of optics at a fraction of the cost of purchasing a standalone NV scope. Zero Lens.

www.ebay.com

Dr. Leo Volfson who is head of Torrey Pine Logic designed and makes these. He and his personnel are some first class people to do business with. They have done custom work for me and produce very good products and results.

 

[RKM556]

Would that really work with the NOX? if so I’m definitely buying one

 

[WhereNow&How]

Would that really work with the NOX? if so I’m definitely buying one

Call Dr. Volfson up and confirm before buying. The man is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to thermal and optical alignment. Great guy to speak with.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Would that really work with the NOX? if so I’m definitely buying one

The problem you are going to run into I think is the NOX doesn't have the standard camera hole in it like a PVS 14 which is what this device is configured to attach to. However, Dr. Volfson could likely fix that by making some changes so the Nox would attach. He has a excellent machining source that does his work.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Ours have a boss that's the same as a pvs14. It's between the 2 mounting holes for the weapons mount. No idea if it would put it in the right place for a zero lens though. Another problem if I remember right is the zero lens has back end demagnification so it needs the 3x magnifier on the front if you want a net 1x. If it would work it would probably be better with a nox35. A review I read said without the 3x on the front his ta31 was a 1.5x.

Take all this with a grain of salt as my understanding of how this stuff works is pretty limited.

Noxs mounted on pvs14 bridge arms. It changes the orientation as well as moving it back a little since the pvs14 thread is forward of the hole you would use for the dovetail to match the nox up with a 14.

 

[rlsmith1]

The NOX18 retains great detail at 2x, but I’m sure the Nvision guys could push an update that allows for a 3x digital zoom?

 

[Totdoc]

The NOX18 retains great detail at 2x, but I’m sure the Nvision guys could push an update that allows for a 3x digital zoom?

I'm sure they could... but your resolution is going to drop significantly by doing a digital mag to manage an optical demag on the back end. This isn't an optimal solution for the nox18.
Edit: if your intention is to run it with a rds at 1x, then it would have the resolution you see on the display, but if you zoom at all with your day optic, it will make the decreased resolution resulting from the digital mag obvious.
Also, since it runs optical demag on the back, wouldn't that also make the projected image smaller? So it really might not be useful behind a 1x optic anyway...

 

[rlsmith1]

It would be a give and take but a cheap option for guys to have clip on ability if they own a NOX. Better than nothing and way cheaper than spending $14k on a Voodoo S

 

[WhereNow&How]

Does the NOX menu allow you to shift the Top & Left margins of the thermal image.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I don't believe so but I haven't really looked. I'm not really clear on the concept but maybe that's what the zero lense does? I put a nox in front of my g2 1-6 and it actually had a pretty good image but not so much with my other scopes.

I actually shot with it awhile back but if I remember correctly you have to zero the scope at a given magnification.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Well if it had the ability to shift the Top & Left margins it would be easy to turn it into a great short to medium range clip on. Point being you put it in front of your day optic and adjust the thermal image via shifting the margins to POA/POI of your day optic. Then you have it sighted in to work as a clip on for that particular rifle if you have a good RTZ mount. Easy peasy for out to 300 yard type shooting or less.

It is also helps a lot when you get the optical train height of the thermal & day site exactly or close to the same.

 

[rlsmith1]

You can sight in the NOX obviously so it seems like shifting the image may be doable? I’m sure the nvision guys looked at it but maybe didn’t realize how well their mono would work as a clip on

ETA: can’t wait for those little devices to make their way into the open!

 

[jwramp]

And further....risely style prisms(KAC Wedge as well) are typically for analog devices (pvs30, 27 etc) collimation on modern thermals (inod, HISS, UTCxii) is done digitally at the pixel level on expensive machines. This info is straight from lead engineer @ a large DOD manufacturer we've all heard of. Just food for thought.
Eyepiece design is 100% for ensuring unity in a clip on. Not trying to start an engineering war with anybody...just passing on what I was told by an engineer that has been responsible for more socom deliveries than most.

Interesting. So those high dollar thermal mil clipons don’t actually have prisms in them? I’d assume that means if they’re not mounted perfectly parallel with the scope there’d be shift and it wouldn’t be as straightforward as not changing the zero on any gun you swap them to. Or are you saying during their assembly they have to be more precisely aligned because it’s a sensor feeding an image to a screen that are each installed independently versus an image intensifier that is aligned during its own manufacture and should be true front to back on its own?

 

[GreenMushroom]

Well if it had the ability to shift the Top & Left margins it would be easy to turn it into a great short to medium range clip on. Point being you put it in front of your day optic and adjust the thermal image via shifting the margins to POA/POI of your day optic. Then you have it sighted in to work as a clip on for that particular rifle if you have a good RTZ mount. Easy peasy for out to 300 yard type shooting or less.

It is also helps a lot when you get the optical train height of the thermal & day site exactly or close to the same.

This is basically what I'm getting at. Not a long range prism device but rather as light and durable as possible. The nox has 4 saves for different rifles and that would be fine. I think it would need a different back end lens because the diopter style seems to limit image quality. I'm thinking something optimized for dot/magnifier, small prisms, or something like the SAI 1-6.

 

[Totdoc]

You'll see new stuff coming to market in next 18 months or so. There is a current solicitation/ requirement from Uncle Sam MAS-NS (miniature aiming sight - night optics suite) optimized for nightforce 1-8x24. The normal big boys are all creating bad ass new small thermals for this hoping to win.

I sure hope whatever they come up with will be offered to the general public...

 

[WhereNow&How]

Multi use devices often require it for differing eyesight deficiencies(hand held use) but there is only one spot about a mm wide on the rotation of that diopter that is actually UNITY. Without unity you can get poi shifts (especially when not centered on display)
Eyepiece design is 100% for ensuring unity in a clip on. Not trying to start an engineering war with anybody...just passing on what I was told by an engineer that has been responsible for more socom deliveries than most.

Some very educational information DRT.

There are some devices like the Voodoo S that have adjustable diopters. I wonder how they achieve satisfactory results as a clip on when using them to find the perfect spot (mm wide rotation).

Not sure of Pixels on Target's "guaranteed" POA/POI when the Voodoo S is used as a clip on.

I have never fully understood the ins and outs of UNITY. I generally think it is having 2 or more devices perfectly aligned on the "optical train".

Is there more to understand about UNITY that you could explain.

 

[WhereNow&How]

If you have it set correctly/perfectly it will work just fine...especially at shorter distances. The point is.. it allows for error to be introduced.
UtC fixed diopter
Lwts-lr fixed diopter
Drs fws-i fixed diopter
Theon sights fixed diopter
Inod fixed diopter
Hiss-xlr fixed diopter
Pvs30 fixed
24lr fixed

What is the best way to test or method to use if you are using a variable diopter on a thermal clip to make sure it is set correctly.

 

[Evolution 9]

Some very educational information DRT.

There are some devices like the Voodoo S that have adjustable diopters. I wonder how they achieve satisfactory results as a clip on when using them to find the perfect spot (mm wide rotation).

Not sure of Pixels on Target's "guaranteed" POA/POI when the Voodoo S is used as a clip on.

I have never fully understood the ins and outs of UNITY. I generally think it is having 2 or more devices perfectly aligned on the "optical train".

Is there more to understand about UNITY that you could explain.

What is the best way to test or method to use if you are using a variable diopter on a thermal clip to make sure it is set correctly.

If the clip on has a reticle, it can help to turn it on. If not, dial up day scope magnification until you can see individual pixels.

Now, adjust the clip on diopter while moving your head up down left and right. You’ll notice the day scope crosshairs moving in relation to the clip on crosshairs (or pixels). Pretty soon, all movement between the two crosshairs will stop. That’s when you have it right.

As you’ve no doubt noticed, it’s much like removing day scope parallax just with a different thing being adjusted.

It’s worth noting that most people recommend having the day scope parallax set to infinity if the scope is so equipped.

 

[jwramp]

That’s about the same that I did with the VooDooS. Cranked zoom all the way up and dialed diopter until pixels were sharp. Ended up lining up perfectly with the zero mark printed on the diopter

 

[WhereNow&How]

If the clip on has a reticle, it can help to turn it on. If not, dial up day scope magnification until you can see individual pixels.

Now, adjust the clip on diopter while moving your head up down left and right. You’ll notice the day scope crosshairs moving in relation to the clip on crosshairs (or pixels). Pretty soon, all movement between the two crosshairs will stop. That’s when you have it right.

As you’ve no doubt noticed, it’s much like removing day scope parallax just with a different thing being adjusted.

It’s worth noting that most people recommend having the day scope parallax set to infinity if the scope is so equipped.

Good stuff. Thanks

 

[WhereNow&How]

That’s about the same that I did with the VooDooS. Cranked zoom all the way up and dialed diopter until pixels were sharp. Ended up lining up perfectly with the zero mark printed on the diopter

So say you have something like a Primary Arms Cyclops (1 power etched reticle) with a diopter and a 3x magnifier behind that with a diopter and you have a bad Astigmatism.

Point being you have your day system all set up to work well for your Astigmatism. Everything is crystal clear for your day setup. You put the VooDoo S in front of that. What would happen then. Would the zero mark printed on the diopter of the VooDoo S still land where it should.

 

[Evolution 9]

Some very educational information DRT.

There are some devices like the Voodoo S that have adjustable diopters. I wonder how they achieve satisfactory results as a clip on when using them to find the perfect spot (mm wide rotation).

Not sure of Pixels on Target's "guaranteed" POA/POI when the Voodoo S is used as a clip on.

I have never fully understood the ins and outs of UNITY. I generally think it is having 2 or more devices perfectly aligned on the "optical train".

Is there more to understand about UNITY that you could explain.

I’m more of a “working definitions” guy than a dictionary definitions guy, so someone may try to correct me from a dictionary standpoint, but in common usage on the Hide over the last few years…

UNITY is getting the image SIZE correct. If you already have a true 1X thermal it is already at “unity”. If a thermal has a 3X front end architecture, it needs 3X demagnification so that the end result is your day scope seeing things at “1X”.

COLLIMATION is getting the screen LOCATION correct, either through a prism or through adjusting the margins on the screen “sighting in the screen”.

Lining up the various day/night scopes in the same optical plane is a good idea. It helps with collimation but it (in itself) isn’t collimation.

Similarly, adjusting a thermal’s diopter removes parallax and will help, but it (in itself) does not collimate the device. It’s is possible to have a perfectly adjusted diopter and be nowhere near collimated.