Closing Bolt Problem.

[ChuckSwagger]

Hello!
I am new on reloading.
I am reloading the 308Win.
My case length is 1.995, my shoulder bump are al the same. I am using SMK 168gn with same weight checked thru AD scale.
I found my touching lands and shoulder bump as this vídeo and set my seating dies.



But when I started to reloading, some ammo do not allow to close the bolt even with the same specs and exactly measurements.
Maybe should I measure the bullets ogive?
I don't know what is going wrong.

 

[SporterII]

Can you measure the case base to dataum line after sizing to compare to a new/chambering case?

 

[ChuckSwagger]

Can you measure the case base to dataum line after sizing to compare to a new/chambering case?

It is 1.610.
My dies are chamber custom Whidden's

 

[bjay]

Can you measure the case base to dataum line after sizing to compare to a new/chambering case?

This pretty much the issue i found..bolt drop freely when using fresh (undersized) brass..but when it fireformed with minimal sized it will give resistance

 

[McHaggis]

I’ve found if there’s a bit much runout the bolt won’t freely drop. I’m only talking 4 or so thou. I found this when I tried to find my lands. Once I used a dummy round with under 1 thou I got consistent results.
Just something to be aware of.

 

[918v]

Is it hanging up on the case or the bullet?

 

[ChuckSwagger]

I just checked and the case is hanging.
Now I take the powder off, test every case and fill the powder again.
I measured the bullets ogive, some drops the bolt ease some don't, even with the same length.
Man, this drives me crazy...

 

[918v]

Bump the shoulder .002” from the point where the bolt closes with slight resistance.

If you get a Redding body die you can bump the shoulder without disassembling the rounds.

 

[m1match]

You're not giving us enough info to help you and that video you refer to is way too much work for little return of information. First off, the 168 SMK is a very length tolerant bullet. Just seat it to magazine length, which is a cartridge overall length of 2.80" give or take a few thousandths and be done with it. Bullet runout from a set of Whidden dies is NOT going to cause a round to not chamber, ignore that suggestion.

Most of us use this tool to measure distance to the lands:

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/precision-measuring/precision-tools-and-gauges/oal-gauges-modified-cases#!/

In all likelihood you are not resizing your cases enough, but some more info would help us help you.

What are the details of the rifle- what action, what barrel, who chambered and installed the barrel?

What are the details of your reloads:
Were the cases all fired in the same rifle or were they fired in different rifles?
How much are you measuring the shoulder of your case and what is the 1.995 measurement you've given us. Most importantly if the cases were all fired in the same rifle, when you are sizing your case, how much are you bumping the shoulder back?

What are you using to measure the shoulders of the fired and resized cases. Again most of us use tools the Hornady Headspace Comparator or the RCBS Precision Mic

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/precision-measuring/precision-tools-and-gauges/headspace-comparator-anvil-base-kit#!/

Precision Mic | RCBS

RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.

rcbs.com

The 308 is a VERY EASY round to reload, I've been loading it for 25 years and thousands upon thousands of rounds and never had an issue. People have been shooting it in matches for so long that you almost don't need to do any load development. Pick a recipe from this forum and go shoot.

 

[ChuckSwagger]

You're not giving us enough info to help you and that video you refer to is way too much work for little return of information. First off, the 168 SMK is a very length tolerant bullet. Just seat it to magazine length, which is a cartridge overall length of 2.80" give or take a few thousandths and be done with it. Bullet runout from a set of Whidden dies is NOT going to cause a round to not chamber, ignore that suggestion.

Most of us use this tool to measure distance to the lands:

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/precision-measuring/precision-tools-and-gauges/oal-gauges-modified-cases#!/

In all likelihood you are not resizing your cases enough, but some more info would help us help you.

What are the details of the rifle- what action, what barrel, who chambered and installed the barrel?

What are the details of your reloads:
Were the cases all fired in the same rifle or were they fired in different rifles?
How much are you measuring the shoulder of your case and what is the 1.995 measurement you've given us. Most importantly if the cases were all fired in the same rifle, when you are sizing your case, how much are you bumping the shoulder back?

What are you using to measure the shoulders of the fired and resized cases. Again most of us use tools the Hornady Headspace Comparator or the RCBS Precision Mic

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/precision-measuring/precision-tools-and-gauges/headspace-comparator-anvil-base-kit#!/

Precision Mic | RCBS

RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.

rcbs.com

The 308 is a VERY EASY round to reload, I've been loading it for 25 years and thousands upon thousands of rounds and never had an issue. People have been shooting it in matches for so long that you almost don't need to do any load development. Pick a recipe from this forum and go shoot.

Hi,

I bought the cases as being once fired which I doubt.
This is the first time reloading.
My rifle has a Big Horn TL3 action with Rock Creek barrel, made by PVA.
I bought this tool from Hornady, but it haven't arrived yet.
The 1.997 is the case length and the 1.610 is the shoulder bump measure.

Next time I will measure the cases and test if it has any resistance I will bump it 0.002 more.

Thank you!

 

[ShtrRdy]

Once fired bras may be larger than your chamber. You will have to do a full length resizing of the once fired brass so that it will fit your chamber.

 

[buffybuster]

I bought the cases as being once fired which I doubt.
This is the first time reloading.

Shoot some factory ammo through the rifle and use that brass to develop your loads. Using some other "once fired" brass when you are new to reloading is introducing too many variables. The hard chambering could be caused by a multitude of reasons when using some other "once fired" brass.

 

[Rlandry]

The only guarantee that brass is once fired is if the primer is still in the case and you have to swage it when reloading. That only applies to military brass. All others is a crap shoot.

 

[Doom]

If the brass is once fired military, it may have been shot in a machine gun. The brass is blown out and you need a small base die to fully resize the cases.

 

[m1match]

Agreed with the others that said your "once fired brass" is a crap shoot. I have loaded Lake City cases that were fired in machine guns and did not have very good results. Machine gun chambers are pretty generous so the brass was stretched and oversize and took a lot of work to get it useable to reload and then on top of that the case life was short because of all the overworking that happened on the first firing.

Like others have said the only way you know it was once fired is if it has the original factory crimp on the primer that you then have to swage out before you can reload it. And about the only military Lake City 308 cases that you can have good confidence weren't fired in a machine gun are the Lake City LR stamped cases that are used in the 7.62 sniper rifles.

 

[Thud]

I have one question- Why would you build a rifle new everything spend a few thousand dollars,
then buy " Once fired Brass for who knows where" just to save a few bucks?

No invest in a few hundred pieces of Freaking new brass and save yourself some headaches.

I boggles my mind how any times here we read the same thing new gun old brass from who knows and it doesn't work.

People read and learn.

 

[Ol' RD]

From just a quick read, not only are you going to need to full length resize, I would also recommend a small base die to do it. Better Suggestion was to buy new brass. Alpha munitions, or Lapua SRP brass would be my pick. You just bought a Ferrari, why put E15 regular gas in it?

 

[ChuckSwagger]

I have one question- Why would you build a rifle new everything spend a few thousand dollars,
then buy " Once fired Brass for who knows where" just to save a few bucks?

No invest in a few hundred pieces of Freaking new brass and save yourself some headaches.

I boggles my mind how any times here we read the same thing new gun old brass from who knows and it doesn't work.

People read and learn.

Because I live in Brazil.
First I need to import the rifle which takes 6-8 months, after that they allow me to import the reload itens as brass and bullets which takes 8 months more too, so I need to cut time and buy used brass, since who have new ones don't sell because is very hard to get it here.
My new ones are incoming and will take 3 months more.
Just because that.

 

[m1match]

Okay I don't think any of us realized that you live in Brazil. My opinion is still that your brass is not being resized enough. Can you tell if the cases that are not chambering are because the base of the case is too large? If that is the case, then you might need to use a small base resizing die, but you'd probably only need to use it for that first resizing- after that it would be fired in your rifle and shouldn't need to be resized with a small base die. If it's not the base of the brass case being too large, then it's probably not bumping the shoulder of the case enough which is just a die adjustment issue.

 

[ChuckSwagger]

Okay I don't think any of us realized that you live in Brazil. My opinion is still that your brass is not being resized enough. Can you tell if the cases that are not chambering are because the base of the case is too large? If that is the case, then you might need to use a small base resizing die, but you'd probably only need to use it for that first resizing- after that it would be fired in your rifle and shouldn't need to be resized with a small base die. If it's not the base of the brass case being too large, then it's probably not bumping the shoulder of the case enough which is just a die adjustment issue.

I think it is because its neck, even being the same size, because I can see some irregularities now.
Next time I will check if chambers, even with the right size and use the redding competition shell holder plus 2+.
Thank you for your time to helping me.

 

[m1match]

Without a headspace gauge like I mentioned earlier you really don't know if your are bumping the shoulder of the case back at all. Relying on shell holders to control sizing doesn't seem to be working out very well. You said your using Redding Competition shell holders, what dies and what reloading press are you using?

 

[ChuckSwagger]

I am Whidden custom Dies made from fired brass in a Redding Big Boss 2.

 

[m1match]

I can guess that your issue is you are trying to control your sizing by using the Redding Competition shell holder and running your sizing die down till it touches the shell holder. You have to remember that those shell holders are made to work with Redding dies and if you use them with another manufacturers die, who knows how much your sizing your cases.

 

[918v]

If you can’t close your bolt on a case using the +.002” shell holder, then use a standard shell holder.

 

[Jordanwickham]

I am Whidden custom Dies made from fired brass in a Redding Big Boss 2.

If I'm reading this correct you are using Whidden dies made based off of fire formed cases. Are they fired in your rifle? I only ask because it seems odd to me that you could get a Whidden custom die in a faster time frame then you could get new brass.

 

[wpgk58]

I can guess that your issue is you are trying to control your sizing by using the Redding Competition shell holder and running your sizing die down till it touches the shell holder. You have to remember that those shell holders are made to work with Redding dies and if you use them with another manufacturers die, who knows how much your sizing your cases.

This is incorrect. The Redding Competition Shellholders will work with any manufacturers' dies.
Understanding Headspace - Addendum 2 - Redding Competition Shell Holders - YouTube
HornadyLoader on You Tube also has a complete series on reloading from beginner level through expert. Well worth the time.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I would size all of the used brass you bought with a small base die, then after you fire it in your chamber you can use your regular dies. I full length size all my brass every time.