Gunsmithing cnc bolt handle threading

[gamma]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Of course you can do it in 5 flat. Its a pity the guy that did in 3 posted the video straight away. He should have mentioned he could do it in 3 minutes first and wait for the experts to chime in with there votes of impossibility then hit them with the silencer. I look forward to getting a few bolt knob conversions in then we'll see what they have to say.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

i have been thinking about a change of program and think i will try to beat three minutes from bench to bench and with a manual tool change. i will have to bite the bullet and get a full profile treadmill though. because of that, it won't be anytime soon. i won't compromise how i feel about the stress concentration and will do what i can to keep it spread over the length of the handle. for the challenge, i want to see how many i can get done in a day

.

 

[fcordrey]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Wow that was impressive ! Cool vid George.

 

[monteboy84]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Matt- Don't sell yourself short brother! My personal preference for a Rem knob is your technique. </div></div>

Thanks bud! It's my preference too, it's just that his machining skills are outstanding. Even if I install knobs a different way, I'd still love to have the skills that allowed him to do the install in the way he did, or to build rifles the way he has. Follow me?

-matt

 

[shadow_sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Thats amazing.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monteboy84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Matt- Don't sell yourself short brother! My personal preference for a Rem knob is your technique. </div></div>

Thanks bud! It's my preference too, it's just that his machining skills are outstanding. Even if I install knobs a different way, I'd still love to have the skills that allowed him to do the install in the way he did, or to build rifles the way he has. Follow me?

-matt </div></div>

I gotcha, and echo the sentiment.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: triggerguard1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's all fun and games till a guy fixtures more than one on a CNC.... </div></div>


if i had 100 to do a day, every day, g54-g59 would be full on my small machine.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monteboy84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice work 300, always impressed by your brilliance in the machine shop. I'd love to have your machining skills, but my mind can't grasp much more than some pretty basic lathe and mill work.

Keep up the good work.

-matt </div></div>

thanks. i am always trying to come up with ways to improve everything i do. damn near every thing i have learned has been from reading other builder's posts here. what i haven't learned reading here has been learned by breaking tools and wrecking material in teh shop.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mikki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The minute I get a Remmy bolt handle in, Ill show you my 5 minute job. If you had the ATC you would probably hit the 1 minute mark. I just spotted the ugliest crow I ever saw. Ill need your postal address, he's got your written all over him. I look forward to seeing your video of you eating this guy. </div></div>

i may not eat <span style="font-style: italic">your</span> crow but i will absolutely make a public apology here for calling you out. all i know is this thread has encouraged me to improve on what i have even if just for fun.

 

[monteboy84]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> by breaking tools and wrecking material in teh shop. </div></div>

Probably one of the most commonly used methods of learning, albeit expensive!

-matt

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeeze that was fast... It took me about 20 minutes on a pedestal grinder to do mine. I have a mill and a lathe, but the mill tooling looks pretty specialized and my lathe is just a hair too small to swing the bolt. </div></div>

if your lathe is too small to swing a bolt, consider fixturing it to the carriage and spinning a cheap import boring head in the chuck with the boring bar turned in. then you can feed the non spinning bolt handle into the boring head. if you have the proper gearing on your lathe, you may be able to chuck up a threading die and feed the handle into it. i honestly don't know how that would work with lead screw backlash and all. in my celebrating st. patty's day state of mind, i <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> it should work

 

[astro3006]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Cool vid!!! Thanks for posting....

 

[GasLight]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

so what is that thread cutter in the video? I can't find a similar item anywhere online, but likely because I don't know what it's called

 

[dareposte]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
if your lathe is too small to swing a bolt, consider fixturing it to the carriage and spinning a cheap import boring head in the chuck with the boring bar turned in. then you can feed the non spinning bolt handle into the boring head. if you have the proper gearing on your lathe, you may be able to chuck up a threading die and feed the handle into it. i honestly don't know how that would work with lead screw backlash and all. in my celebrating st. patty's day state of mind, i <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> it should work

</div></div>

My lathe is a 9x20, so it's just barely too small to swing the bolt. I have a good boring bar for the mill, that's a good idea to use it, I could just fixture on the mill instead of the lathe. My lathe doesn't have any gears in it though, or backlash, it's CNC'd. It can do spindle synchronized motions though so it could probably feed just fine into a threading die.

The nice thing about the CNC is that it can make some killer custom bolt handles. Good plastic or aluminum cuts like butter, steel cuts OK.

 

[triggerguard1]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: triggerguard1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's all fun and games till a guy fixtures more than one on a CNC.... </div></div>


if i had 100 to do a day, every day, g54-g59 would be full on my small machine. </div></div>

Here's a tip that will last you the rest of your machining career and it's free.........

Instead of cluttering up all of your work coordinates with different positions, use a G52. I have some programs that have had over 220 parts running on the machine with only a single work coordinate for the whole thing.

Here's a programming example to get you on your way...

We'll call our subprogram O1000. Our main program will be O5000. We're going to interpolate 5 bolt handles with a 3/8 endmill. They will be 5" spaced evenly in X and at the Y0 machine position, relative to G54 X0Y0

%
O5000(remington bolt interpolate)
N1 T1 M6(3/8 ENDMILL)
G91 G28 Z0
G52 X0 Y0
G54 G90 G0 X0 Y-1. S3500 M3
G43 H1 Z1. M8
M99 P100(GO TO G52 SUBS)
G90 G0 Z3. M9
G91 G28 Z0 M5
G91 G28 Y0
G52 X0 Y0
M30

N100(G52 SUBROUTINES)
G52 X-10. Y0( PART #1)
M98 P1001(GO TO SUB PROGRAM)
G52 X-5. Y0(PART #2)
M98 P1001
G52 X0 Y0(PART #3)
M98 P1001
G52 X.5 YO(PART #4)
M98 P1001
G52 X10. Y0(PART #5)
G90 G0 Z2.
M99

Now, this next part is where a Haas is nice to use for programming, because instead of having to use an M98, you can use an M97 and write your subprogram write inside of the main program, but here's how your sub will look since you're not using a Haas.

O1001(SUB FOR 05000)
G90 G0 X0 Y-1.
Z1.
Z.1
G1 Z-.4 F25.
G41 G1 Y-.125 D1 F15.
G2 J0 Y-.125 R.125
G1 Y-.25
G40 G0 Y-1. X.2
G90 G0 Z1.
M99(RETURN TO WHERE IT LEFT OFF)


Study that pattern and you'll quickly see that you can put a limitless number of parts on your machine, while use only one work coordinate.

Here's some rules that you need to know though before you get to making a million widgets.

First, at the end of every tool sequence and at the beginning, you must have a G52 X0Y0 inputted in order to cancel out any previous G52 position.
Second, the first move that is made in a subprogram must be a X and Y move. After you have moved the machine relative to that G52, then you can begin moving your Z axis and ultimately the tool path as you desire.
Third, take note of where I placed the "M99" in every line. It is a return to get you back to where you started from, prior to the program taking you to the subroutines or subprograms.

Last, but certainly not least, is the fact that when you build fixturing, you must keep in mind that each position will be a hard number relative to your work coordinate. If a part must be dialed in, you'll have to go into the program and physically change the G52 X and Y callout. You can't simply adjust the G54, or you'll upset the entire string of parts. Sometimes however, the whole string of parts needs to be slightly adjusted as the machine warms and cools, but that's for lesson two.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

that is very interesting. i will have to study that more. i am sure i will use it in the future. that would probably be very handy when i set up a tooling plate and can have dowels to locate each fixture precisely.

right now, my machine is so small i rarely can get more than 6 parts on it. the few times i use multiple fixture offsets, it has been real simple to locate the g54 part and then enter the offsets for g55-59 in the control.

this was my first venture into milling. i had thought about this fixture long before i had even seen a mill in person, much less owned a cnc. i am fascinated by fixturing and love the challenge of figuring out work holding ideas. granted i get confused by them all the time. this took up the entire work envelope of my small machine.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

300 Sniper, Replace that set screw in your fixture with a 1/4 x20 brass tipped Set screw the larger surface area and the brass tip will not mar the part at all.

Ill take a pic of the fixture we built for the Mori, Its more complex to make but holds dead on.

 

[Hateca]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

I told you all you were going to hate it.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 Sniper, Replace that set screw in your fixture with a 1/4 x20 brass tipped Set screw the larger surface area and the brass tip will not mar the part at all.

Ill take a pic of the fixture we built for the Mori, Its more complex to make but holds dead on. </div></div>

thanks for the tip. i think i will do that.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

if i had 100 to do a day, every day. </div></div>

Thats my dream

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

if i had 100 to do a day, every day. </div></div>

Thats my dream </div></div>

i can think of many things to dream about but bolt knobs aren't one of them

 

[csi:cyberspace]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
i can think of many things to dream about but bolt knobs aren't one of them

</div></div>
If you were doing 100 bolt knobs per day @ $50-$75 per, you wouldn't have to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">dream</span></span> about all those other things!

 

[Hooper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Nice machine/tooling and video George.

...and I thought I was doing something when I could crank out 5 an hour, glued, packaged and ready to be shipped.

That is only after a good shit, morning Coffee and DAC playing in the background.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

good choice of music hooper!

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Agreed.
But 100 installs a day would be $7,500 a day(minus about 35%).

George, whats your magic average daily number of installs?

 

[microsuck]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

300sniper, you did a fantastic job of making the jig, minus the set screw part of course. Very nice.

I also do my knobs the EXACT same way you saw Flounder do them. Only variation it that I use the PTG bolt knob remover tool in liu of the end mill and 3 blade rougher. I only have to do one tool change instead of 2. PTG remover is just a hollow mill that you drive down on top of the old handle, leaving a nice shaft when finished. I then switch out for a mill shaft style die holder, and drive it down. I usually stop once or twice to reverse it and clear chips. Its right at about 3-4 mins too.

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

very impressed 300sniper with your work and creativity on using your machine. You certainly have me inspired. I have lots of learn on the CNC side, just starting out

 

[Kletzenklueffer]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

And I'm just tickled to see G code posted and know what it means, and to understand the topic at all. a year ago I knew none of this.

 

[Csf45]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

this has put ideas in my head, now im wanting to try it on one of my CNCs at work

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

i did four more bolt handles today and the endmill and thread mill are still sharp as new. i don't think i am going to bother trying to speed up the program or invest in a full profile thread mill at this time.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Cool thread

I could beat 1min on the robodrill, Its just short of magic. I would helix down to depth and take a finish pass. then thread mill in one revolution, then a clean up pass if needed.

Another thing you can do for your multiple offsets is just a g10 work shift. Not sure what your machine supports?

here is a simple example i use. Fixtures i have go back to the same spot, so all i do is install the fixture and pull up the program. the G10 re writes your G54-59 whenever wherever you want in your program. Lots of ways to skin this cat. (p1=G54, P2=G55 P3=G56 and so on)

this would move your part by x-5.0 and y -5.0
%
P1001 (0001 sub program)
G90 G10 P1 X-21.87 Y-.7200 Z-0.3222 (changes your G54 (P1) offset)
M98 P0001 (call main program from mem)
G90 G10 P1 X-26.87 Y-5.7200 Z-0.3222
M98 P0001 (call main program from mem)
G90 G10 P1 X-31.87 Y-10.7200 Z-0.3222
M98 P0001 (call main program from mem)
keeps going as far as you want..
%

If you ever need any help give me a shout.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

the brown truck showed up today.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

four and a half hours from opening the shop door this morning to closing the shop door and leaving. there were two more that were gone before the picture was taken.

since there was some doubt earlier in this thread about tool life, i'm still on my original endmill and thread mill and they are still sharp. i even used this same endmill to section this barrel:

 

[burkeknives]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

300sniper, would you explain to me how you determined your zero, so that it would be in the center of the bolt knob? I tried building a quick fixture, then eyeballing for zero, and it didn't work out very well.
I thought about just drawing the hole thing in Mastercam, then building it.

Thanks

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

once i had the fixture built, i placed a bolt in it and did some measuring and eyeballing to find the xy zero. i ran the program on a spare bolt i had and was happy with it. i moved to x0 y1.75 and drilled a hole in the top of the fixture. when i place the fixture on the table, i now find the center of that hole and move to y-1.75 and zero out x and y. i use the top of the fixture as my z0.

 

[burkeknives]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Thanks for the info!

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

here are a few pictures from some local guys that got my knob jobs

.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here are a few pictures from some local guys that got my knob jobs. </div></div>

Just sayin...LOL

 

[Kells81]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

I have read the whole thread and wish I woulda been a machinist instead of an electrician. Either way I gotta know are you any closer to eating crow?

 

[Calibur6918]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

That was talented work none the less. great job flounder. Cut that hair hippie.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have read the whole thread and wish I woulda been a machinist instead of an electrician. Either way I gotta know are you any closer to eating crow? </div></div>

i'm still waiting on the video of one being done on a manual lathe with insert tooling in 5 minutes or less from bench to bench.

 

[toolmaker]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have read the whole thread and wish I woulda been a machinist instead of an electrician. Either way I gotta know are you any closer to eating crow? </div></div>

i'm still waiting on the video of one being done on a manual lathe with insert tooling in 5 minutes or less from bench to bench. </div></div> You are not the only one.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

a few more.

...and the endmill and threadmill are still sharp

.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

got a few more done this morning. i've done close to 50 of them now and the original endmill and thread mill are still sharp.

 

[300sniper]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

i was messing around yesterday with another program and had my feed rate override set to 200%. i forgot to reset the feed override before running the bolt knob program. it actually sounded fine at 2x what i was feeding at and the finish looked good. apparently with this setup, i can cut the machine time down significantly.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

You will never know what is possible until you figure out the impossile. Now go break some tools

Im playing with 24,000 RPM's today and things are just different..

 

[subgunr]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Ya. 300sniper put an air motor in your machine spindle and run the thread mill op at 24,000 RPM ( remember to adjust feed accordingly). Please video....

 

[triggerguard1]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

Turn em till they burn, back off 1% and make a chip load that puts the heat in the chip, rather than the tool or workpiece.

As long as the fixturing will hold up, most people are running too slow on steel and stainless machining. New coatings and substrates will get you to 1000SFM on mild steel and 400 series stainless.

 

[hesco]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

how many passes are you taking when helical thread milling

 

[GUNNER75]

Re: cnc bolt handle threading

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