PRS Talk CO Prs Match

[Loe]

It would be excellent to have a layout of 'what happened' and very much appreciated.

If I can find time to write that novel I shall lol. I saw a disconnect between ROs and the rule book and MD to shooters. I happen to know the shooter that got the boot, and my personal opinion is that his delivery Was poor with the MD. On the other hand I just started PRS a few years ago and Lewie was the first person to give me the time of day, And I don’t think he’s the bad guy that he’s been made out to be…maybe just a very misinterpreted person.

 

[Lowlight]

Don't waste your time, it's an exercise in futility to write what happened.

We know what happened,

Inconsistent application of outdated rules randomly enforced by uneducated volunteers who are forced to interpret intent on the fly.

This is a top-down problem that is easily fixed by even the most basic Range Officer program. Hell, using an online training course for range officers would be more than gets done today or even the last 10 years.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

My biggest beef is what was done and said to the other squad members. It goes beyond rules/regs and is more about how a man speaks to another man or group of men. Youre not going to tell me i can't speak on a stage or call me a "Slime Ball" when i did absolutely nothing wrong AND you dont even know me. We now have bigger issues than a rifle competition, at that point.

 

[Mr. F]

Don't waste your time, it's an exercise in futility to write what happened.

We know what happened,

Inconsistent application of outdated rules randomly enforced by uneducated volunteers who are forced to interpret intent on the fly.

This is a top-down problem that is easily fixed by even the most basic Range Officer program. Hell, using an online training course for range officers would be more than gets done today or even the last 10 years.

Actually, no one knows

 

[Lowlight]

Really you mean the people who were there have no clue

You mean the squad was reprimanded don't know ?

Interesting take

 

[Mr. F]

I mean, has someone posted the stage brief and what the people that got re shoots did vs the ones that F up and didn’t get to re shoot?

Thats not out or is it?

 

[NiteQwill]

I mean, has someone posted the stage brief and what the people that got re shoots did vs the ones that F up and didn’t get to re shoot?

Thats not out or is it?

Nope. This whole thread is speculation, as is all PRS drama. At the end of the day 99.9999999% of shooters don't care what happened in CO.

People will continue to shoot these matches because they are FUN and bring more to the precision rifle table than anything in the past. The numbers show that, or PRS would have been dead long ago (like NRL).

 

[Lowlight]

Dude,

Who do you think I hang with every week, it's not speculation it's facts

Chris Way was the "other guy". The person who the MD called a Slime ball

Absolutely we know, we know the squad members,

Fuck I just posted my 5th video with Chris, who do you think they are talking about besides Lew

 

[Lowlight]

Chris was the guy Shannon spoke to, trying to remove him from the PRS when he was not a member

Chris called people on the ride home from Cameo and spent the next day at my house Duh

You people are pathetic apologists who constantly tries to rewrite history you don't like, seriously pathetic people and I mean that

 

[Lowlight]

And then, Phil Velayo who was one of the guys who got a Reshoot Contacted me douchebags

but tell me how nobody knows what happened - fucking assholes

 

[NiteQwill]

Again, Frank... I don't think 99.9999+% of shooters really care. I know the details, as well.

Matches will still be full. People will still shoot. People will still have a good time.

 

[Lowlight]

Again, Frank... I don't think 99.9999+% of shooters really care. I know the details, as well.

Matches will still be full. People will still shoot. People will still have a good time.

Piece of shit apologist says What ?

Yes, matches will still be fun, and stupid at the same time because insanity suits you

doing the same stupid thing over and over

 

[Mr. F]

Cool


I just wanna know what the shooters that got reshoots did vs the the ones that didn’t?

 

[Lowlight]

They asked,

But had a different last name

 

[NiteQwill]

Piece of shit apologist says What ?

Yes, matches will still be fun, and stupid at the same time because insanity suits you

doing the same stupid thing over and over

Frank, very professional.

I mean, come on man. Should I print this out and wear it at a Guardian match or something?

As said before, people will make decisions with their wallets. And currently, what we see is a reflection of that. There is no 'perfect' match outside (guardian comes close).

Thanks for the SH slow down.

 

[Lowlight]

It's amazing how complacent and lazy people will be

they are fine with having a subpar experience because change is scary,

There has not been a single season without a ton of preventable drama, 1/2 the time it happens all on its own, doesn't even need a voice to move it.

Matches could and should be better after this much time, the fact you'll argue for mediocrity is telling

You're welcome, see if the PRS can help you, when people are too scared to leave on their own I am happy to help them make better decisions

 

[Lowlight]

How do people "vote with their wallets" if others are hiding the facts of the matter, sweeping this stuff under the rug.

If everyone excuses it, nothing changes and then people feel this is how it should be

Again I ask, Name the program, I'll take one thing that is designed to "Grow the Sport", what outreach.... I asked above never saw a single attempt to answer

What is being done to promote the sport and not the individual?

You people are seriously pathetic and wouldn't know what to do if Aliens handed to you on a silver platter

 

[Lowlight]

There is no perfect match

So let's shut down any conversation that has to do with improving it and holding people accountable

Every year things are identified that could use improvement, every year they ignore those things because you let them

 

[NiteQwill]

No one is disagreeing that there are imperfections in the current setup.

What people may disagree with is that participation is somehow affected by these isolated incidents of drama. I personally don't think participation is affected at all. We have literally seen an explosion of precision rifle participation in recent years (whether PRS or outlaw matches). At the end of the day, the common weekend, mid-pack-and-below shooter just wants to shoot. Many would not care for the drama, and if it does exist, they don't get involved. That is what I'm saying...

 

[Lowlight]

Participation moves all the time, up and down, some areas are less affected than other areas due to saturation of shooters vs travel.

if participation wasn't an issue, where are the NRL two-day matches?

If the majority of competitors realized how they are being scammed they might think differently, but as long as we can suppress the truth, ignorance is bliss

 

[Lowlight]

Again,

What do they do to help new shooters, grow the sport, promote competition in general (not just theirs)

NOTHING, prove me wrong, I'm waiting

 

[NiteQwill]

Participation moves all the time, up and down, some areas are less affected than other areas due to saturation of shooters vs travel.

if participation wasn't an issue, where are the NRL two-day matches?

If the majority of competitors realized how they are being scammed they might think differently, but as long as we can suppress the truth, ignorance is bliss

NRL 2 day died because PRS had more options for participation, IMHO. That and Travis had no more drive to keep it running. But that's just observed opinion.

 

[Lowlight]

It went outlaw,

they created regional series, nothing really changed just the names of the matches, not the locations

They actually followed the PRS Model which is actually regional, most of the PRS matches are East Coast and easy to get to, out West travel is a lot longer

The PNW has their region, the West just split theirs up, the East was easy, you can hit 10 matches in a simple 6hr drive in any direction. So turning to a regional series was smarter rather than trying to grow over distance

Yes the will to move forward was lost, but you can look here to this thread to see why you caved to the PRS and they were actively working to suppress the NRL

By allowing one side to manipulate the conversation, you helped kill it's competition so it has less incentive to do things right

 

[NiteQwill]

Again,

What do they do to help new shooters, grow the sport, promote competition in general (not just theirs)

NOTHING, prove me wrong, I'm waiting

Not trying to prove you wrong. I'm trying to say that many people don't view it in such a narrow way. The game of politics is the same process... You may disagree with a specific part of a candidate's platform (PRS) but that doesn't mean you won't vote for them (matches). Because the alternative can (is?) more dangerous (no matches at all).

 

[NiteQwill]

I'll probably stop replying because I think we can agree to disagree. Bring the topic to another Guardian match (I didn't hear you bring it up in December) and I can list numerous ways everyone can be happy. Have a good day man.

 

[Lowlight]

Alternative: No matches

One of the most ignorant things I have seen written in ages, epic deflection

 

[spmcpeek]

Hey Frank, how is NiteQwill supposed to reply while you're preventing him from posting?

 

[Lowlight]

What I find comical is, I will go through periods and not comment on the drama, then more drama will happen on its own, and still, nothing changes

So when I point out the drama, it's killing the messenger time, but when I don't point out the drama it's killing that messenger

Despite all the responses these types of threads get, nobody wants to hear it, got it

I'll ignore the drama until it explodes again, then I will say, told ya...

What is funny about the numbers, is they post them, they are public and there is a guy who analyzes them via spreadsheets,

They are tiny, there are no Shooter Retentions, the turnover is huge and the number of shooters who participates (participation part) in the required 3 matches per season to qualify is less than 500 people ...

Nobody is being prevented, it's just difficult, not impossible, and who says I am talking only to him

And who the fuck are you, are we drinking buddies?

 

[spmcpeek]

What I find comical is, I will go through periods and not comment on the drama, then more drama will happen on its own, and still, nothing changes

So when I point out the drama, it's killing the messenger time, but when I don't point out the drama it's killing that messenger

Despite all the responses these types of threads get, nobody wants to hear it, got it

I'll ignore the drama until it explodes again, then I will say, told ya...

What is funny about the numbers, is they post them, they are public and there is a guy who analyzes them via spreadsheets,

They are tiny, there are no Shooter Retentions, the turnover is huge and the number of shooters who participates (participation part) in the required 3 matches per season to qualify is less than 500 people ...

Nobody is being prevented, it's just difficult, not impossible, and who says I am talking only to him

And who the fuck are you, are we drinking buddies?

While we have shared beverages together, I have no interest in doing it again.

I hope you have the day you deserve.

 

[Lowlight]

Says the troll that popped in with a fake account used to play games with

Whatever you say, LOL

Hopefully you bought

 

[Lowlight]

The funniest part,

It's not what you say, it's how you say it we don't like

They have nothing for the content, only that someone is saying it out loud, for them, it's just inconvenient

Even Sikes was caught saying, they just can't control me and that is what they don't like, I won't fall in line.

Stop saying these things out loud, nobody cares, except they do or they won't try to keep it quiet all the time

 

[DocRDS]

Nope. This whole thread is speculation, as is all PRS drama. At the end of the day 99.9999999% of shooters don't care what happened in CO.

People will continue to shoot these matches because they are FUN and bring more to the precision rifle table than anything in the past. The numbers show that, or PRS would have been dead long ago (like NRL).

Who hoo I am the 0.0000001%

Actually if there are 10000 PRS shooters, I personally represent the 0.01% and there was a second guy 0.02%! Whats a factor of 10000 among buds!

Since I have no friends I personally have no clue other than the second hand gleamings. I just wanted the whole story Maybe that's causing drama. But obviously Franks'd dander is up, and Chris Way seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't make waves in a still pond and if he had some strong words, well that matters. And there are a few others that posted here than backed up Frank's account.

You know what I haven't seen? Any evidence that this is Frank "trying to stay relevant" or "pushing an agenda to cause drama" And it sure as hell has made me think twice about supporting PRS and looking for other types of matches in addition to my own initial XP with prs. Since I have 2 IQ points to rub together for a spark, the absence of the "other side of the story" is pretty damn telling.

Also just I totally burn my bridges: Winning Production (PRS) is like hiding in Limited 10 (USPSA). We know you are there because you can't compete.

 

[Changed]

On his podcast, Chris Way described it as being thrust into an episode of the Simpsons where Homer was given a sponsorship by Hornady and Ruger, and made match director.

Actually if there are 10000 PRS shooters, I personally represent the 0.01% and there was a second guy 0.02%! Whats a factor of 10000 among buds!

Since I have no friends I personally have no clue other than the second hand gleamings. I just wanted the whole story Maybe that's causing drama. But obviously Franks'd dander is up, and Chris Way seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't make waves in a still pond and if he had some strong words, well that matters. And there are a few others that posted here than backed up Frank's account.

You know what I haven't seen? Any evidence that this is Frank "trying to stay relevant" or "pushing an agenda to cause drama" And it sure as hell has made me think twice about supporting PRS and looking for other types of matches in addition to my own initial XP with prs. Since I have 2 IQ points to rub together for a spark, the absence of the "other side of the story" is pretty damn telling.

Also just I totally burn my bridges: Winning Production (PRS) is like hiding in Limited 10 (USPSA). We know you are there because you can't compete.

 

[deersniper]

Being unsafe around guns, DQ the shit of of him

Like mr super mower aka SafetyThird?

 

[Lowlight]

Did someone say, Safety Third,

The example they set for others... cuz they're the Pros

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Before we all go batshit crazy about condemning production, it has one very outstanding point, which to my way of thinking has made a very important contribution to the sport. (and also for the rest of the story) and my bank account.

Production has produced several very nice rifles, that are somewhat affordable. Bad Rock, GA, and MPA to mention a few of the very best. It makes having a really nice PRS style rifle available to many who otherwise would be shooting something not up to the task.

 

[DocRDS]

Before we all go batshit crazy about condemning production, it has one very outstanding point, which to my way of thinking has made a very important contribution to the sport. (and also for the rest of the story) and my bank account.

Production has produced several very nice rifles, that are somewhat affordable. Bad Rock, GA, and MPA to mention a few of the very best. It makes having a really nice PRS style rifle available to many who otherwise would be shooting something not up to the task.

View attachment 7858158

Production rifles good

Fucking over competitors and the sport to win a dumb division bad. Give the #1 guy a prod rifle in 6 Creed. Watch him whoop ass in open. Its like Kramer from Seinfeld being champ of his Karate class.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Production rifles good

Fucking over competitors and the sport to win a dumb division bad. Give the #1 guy a prod rifle in 6 Creed. Watch him whoop ass in open. Its like Kramer from Seinfeld being champ of his Karate class.

I can’t agree or disagree with you. Never a fan of situation comedy, I don’t believe I have ever watched an episode of Kramer or Everyone loves or hates or whatever with Raymond, or the Queen of Kings.. So, I have no common frame of reference.

 

[Rob01]

Production is stupid.

 

[LV Precision]

Who hoo I am the 0.0000001%

Actually if there are 10000 PRS shooters, I personally represent the 0.01% and there was a second guy 0.02%! Whats a factor of 10000 among buds!

Since I have no friends I personally have no clue other than the second hand gleamings. I just wanted the whole story Maybe that's causing drama. But obviously Franks'd dander is up, and Chris Way seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't make waves in a still pond and if he had some strong words, well that matters. And there are a few others that posted here than backed up Frank's account.

You know what I haven't seen? Any evidence that this is Frank "trying to stay relevant" or "pushing an agenda to cause drama" And it sure as hell has made me think twice about supporting PRS and looking for other types of matches in addition to my own initial XP with prs. Since I have 2 IQ points to rub together for a spark, the absence of the "other side of the story" is pretty damn telling.

Also just I totally burn my bridges: Winning Production (PRS) is like hiding in Limited 10 (USPSA). We know you are there because you can't compete.

@AlwineArcher Apparently can't compete because he shoots Production with a Savage. I mean, could have fooled me.

 

[DocRDS]

Well if they shoot a savage, they have money left over for butthurt salve so everyone is a winner!

 

[deersniper]

Well if they shoot a savage, they have money left over for butthurt salve so everyone is a winner!

What serious shooter shoots a Salvage?

 

[b6graham]

What serious shooter shoots a Salvage?

Matt Alwine does. and wins.

 

[Lowlight]

cause they won't authorize his other gunsmith as a production rifle

He moved to the Savage after they denied his appeal regarding the production class rifle he shot the year before

 

[deersniper]

Lol forgot about their production rifle shenanigans last year. What a crooked group

 

[LV Precision]

What serious shooter shoots a Salvage?

Alwine placed 3rd overall at the Koenig-Ruger AG Cup match.

 

[Lowlight]

99% don't care they change rules for title sponsors

 

[DocRDS]

Alwine placed 3rd overall at the Koenig-Ruger AG Cup match.

Having to explain the joke is tedious, but the ahole under discussion is Koenig. Point being he touts his wins but he only wins cause he hides in production class and bitches to get the rules changed in his favor.

Alwine proves the point. Take a good shooter and a production rifle and they can compete in open. AKA Production class is bogus and stupid. ANd if you are truly outraged over a rollmark for someone else, you do need that butthurt salve. Toughen up nancy

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

you do need that butthurt salve.

Don’t you dare go apickin on my butthurt salve. You spend as many hours in the saddle as I do and you’ll keep a good supply of the stuff on hand as well

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Back to the subject at hand, I‘ve seen Savages that can shoot as well as any thing put together today. Seen my RPR match or almost better my MPA. Just because it does not cost 10K does not mean its not good, but quality of finish, smoothness of action and consistent quality are what the big bucks can buy.