Comment regarding POF, did I make a mistake!!!!

[peterh]

This is more in the line of a comment rather than any statement on my part. I recently sold my RRA and after putting along a bunch of cash I acquired a POF 416 18" barrel. I not only fell in love with the ascetics of the POF but I bought into the whole piston mentality if you want to call it that. I mounted a nice Leopold 4-14X40 30mm scope on an American Arms quick detachable mount and off to the range I went, I have to admit I was quite excited. I took along several boxes of ammo ranging from 55 to 75 grains bullets. Federal 69 match and 75 Previ match. I also had some Hornady 75 grain steel match ammo with me.

I was used to shooting 1/2 MOA and the occasional 1/4 MOA with my RRA, this was mostly done with the 69 Federal Gold Match. You can't imagine how frustrated I became when after shooting the POF the best I was able to do was on average 2 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. I double checked the scope mounting and it was on nice and tight, I really concentrated on my breathing and trigger control but nothing seemed to help.

Today I was back at the range giving it another try. I took some PMC Tac 62grain ammo and that was the worst shooting I have ever done, the best was one group 2MOA and the worst was 3 1/2 MOA. I don't know if this is just a case of a gun that is ammo finicky and it's just a matter of finding the ammo it likes. On the POF web page they state they do a lot of shooting the Wolf steel case ammo, maybe that's what I need to try, no more of the good stuff I'm going to feed it some cheap ammo and see what happens.

I have a bad feeling I made a big mistake getting rid of my RR, I don't know this POF might be for sale soon............

 

[RobertB]

Man, that sucks. I sure hope you get it figured out. They carry a high price tag so I would want good results.

Good luck

 

[dmike]

I think a lot of guys have had really good experiences with POF. Well built and accurate, many good shooters on this site swear by their POFs.

However I can completely relate to what you're dealing with--I got a p308 and it was the same kind of deal. I took it to a gunsmith and found out the gas port was in a bad spot, between a land and groove. The chamber lead in angle was apparently abrupt too. I think it was causing a lot of runout and the port was probably catching the jacket or affecting each round differently. After all the time, frustration and money I'm wishing I had gone with another brand. The crazy thing is when I see them for sale I still look and as frustrating as this has been I still like them for some reason. They're great looking rifles and mine functions well. Horrible cs though and apparently inconsistent quality.

 

[Scottmilk9]

POF uses wolf ammo to test fire into a tube, not for accuracy testing. I'm not sure what PMC tac is as I never used it. Give it a try, most of the pof 223's i have personally shot or know people with them get great accuracy. Try a few more times with different ammo. Good luck to you.

 

[springer01]

Did you buy it new? Have you tried to contact POF about lack of accuracy?

 

[peterh]

Did you buy it new? Have you tried to contact POF about lack of accuracy?

Gun was brand new in the box when I got it. Just after I got it I called POF regarding a question about the piston rod sticking and not wanting to come out for cleaning. The guy I spoke to didn't seem very friendly and in truth he seemed annoyed by my questions. I have been hesitating calling but I'm at my wits end with this issue....

 

[c4xplsv]

The op rod is sticking because it is too soft and is malformed from being hit with the piston. I know this because I once had a POF and it did this exact thing. They said they were having an issue getting the correct rockwell hardness on the op rods. I'm local so it was a 15 min fix for this particular issue. Mine didn't group with match ammo either (similar groups). I sold it 3 days later and never looked back.


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[ZombieMonkey]

I cannot speak from personal experience as I have avoided POF because of issues others at the range have had. You see a number of them around here as they are local to Phoenix. They have some great looking rifles, but watching others struggle with accuracy and reliability issues at the range just gets old. Those who have rifles that work well absolutely love them, those who have had issues tend to be absolutely frustrated with POF. They just seem to have some serious QC issues, which sucks as I like to support an AZ gun manufacturer if they can turn out a good product.

 

[samnev]

I agree POF QC seems to be hit and miss. My friend had a 308 with serious FTF and FTE problems. It went back to POF 3X before it was fixed. He sold it shortly after. On the other had I have 2 POF's a 415 and a 308 that have been flawless and are both sub moa shooters. I would be persistent with POF don't let the less than courteous bozo put you off and ask for the head man. He has responded well to others on this board that have had problems withe their POF's.

 

[BCP]

Call them up and rag on them until they fix it. Every POF rifle I've ever seen shot better than that. Hell I would use my frequent flier miles to go to phoenix on knock on their fucking door.

 

[peterh]

I agree POF QC seems to be hit and miss. My friend had a 308 with serious FTF and FTE problems. It went back to POF 3X before it was fixed. He sold it shortly after. On the other had I have 2 POF's a 415 and a 308 that have been flawless and are both sub moa shooters. I would be persistent with POF don't let the less than courteous bozo put you off and ask for the head man. He has responded well to others on this board that have had problems withe their POF's.

Who from POF is on this board or has responded to issues regarding these rifles??

 

[MJP68]

This is more in the line of a comment rather than any statement on my part. I recently sold my RRA and after putting along a bunch of cash I acquired a POF 416 18" barrel. I not only fell in love with the ascetics of the POF but I bought into the whole piston mentality if you want to call it that. I mounted a nice Leopold 4-14X40 30mm scope on an American Arms quick detachable mount and off to the range I went, I have to admit I was quite excited. I took along several boxes of ammo ranging from 55 to 75 grains bullets. Federal 69 match and 75 Previ match. I also had some Hornady 75 grain steel match ammo with me.

I was used to shooting 1/2 MOA and the occasional 1/4 MOA with my RRA, this was mostly done with the 69 Federal Gold Match. You can't imagine how frustrated I became when after shooting the POF the best I was able to do was on average 2 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. I double checked the scope mounting and it was on nice and tight, I really concentrated on my breathing and trigger control but nothing seemed to help.

Today I was back at the range giving it another try. I took some PMC Tac 62grain ammo and that was the worst shooting I have ever done, the best was one group 2MOA and the worst was 3 1/2 MOA. I don't know if this is just a case of a gun that is ammo finicky and it's just a matter of finding the ammo it likes. On the POF web page they state they do a lot of shooting the Wolf steel case ammo, maybe that's what I need to try, no more of the good stuff I'm going to feed it some cheap ammo and see what happens.

I have a bad feeling I made a big mistake getting rid of my RR, I don't know this POF might be for sale soon............

Which trigger did your POF come with?
single stage I'm guessing while your RRA likely had their very good 2stage oe trigger.. just a thought
POF usually uses the best components available during production.. and have shipped rifles with several different trigger configurations..
I own POF and RRA rifles, Both exceed my shooting skills as far as accuracy but I did struggle with accuracy with my POF until switching to a 2 stage trigger.
just my 2c.

 

[ZLBubba]

The earlier POFs seemed to be well-made and accurate. I saw far fewer QC issues back when the company was newer and still felt like it had something to prove.

You can search on the Hide over the past two years and see how many people are having issues with their POFs. As such, I wouldn't pay my own money for one, period. If you get a good POF, you get a great one. But your chances of getting one with issues is really high, especially if you're getting a new one. Me, I'd trade or sell that rifle and get one of the many other better choices: Noveske, LMT, LWRC, Precision Firearms. There are so many better choices these days. I hope POF gets their QC straight, but until then, it's just too much money for a crap shoot.

 

[JSTARSZ]

A friend of mine searched and searched for the perfect AR and ended up with a POF 416. We started taking it to the range and could never get it to shoot better than 2 MOA at a 100. I helped him by reloading for it with all kinds of bullet weights but we could never get it better than 1 1/2 MOA at 100. He was so ticked off my his experience that he bought a LWRC and sold the POF and never looked back. I think that is a common situation. Some people expect it to work right out of the box and when they become disappointed they sale it and move it down the road to another person. Some people go the POF customer service route and it takes on a life of its own. It's a shame because they are very nice looking rifles.

My absolute best shooting AR is a DPMS Mini-SASS...It is a consistent 3/4 MOA rifle with 77 Sierra's but it's a rifle that is not that thought of highly in the AR community. When you get a great shooting AR - don't sale it.

 

[Rob01]

Call POF and ask to speak to Frank or Cody. They will help you out.

 

[elfster1234]

Ive never owned a pof before so i cant say much about pof. But all of my rock river ar's have been sub moa shooters. Best bang for your buck imo

 

[samnev]

Who from POF is on this board or has responded to issues regarding these rifles??

I could be wrong but I distinctly remember one of the POF hierarchy leaving their personal cell number for one of the board members that was getting less than adequate service on his POF. I don't remember his name.

 

[66427vette]

We had 4 from 2008 to 2009 . They were the biggest pieces of shit. At least yours shoots.

 

[Sebben]

Pof and mistake are often used in the same sentence.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[jaycoux]

I really want to like this rifle. I was looking into picking one up until I read this thread. Its too bad nobody from pof will get in here and address some of these comments.

 

[springer01]

I would do all you can to get POF to help you with this. I worked with Cody on a upper POF built for me and he got done what he said he would with no problems.

On a positive note I have a P308 16" and so does my step dad, and I have a friend with a POF in 6.5 Creedmoor and they are all tack drivers!

 

[Fly_True]

I've had my P308 for about 4-5 years now, I honestly can't remember what year I bought it. I've never had any issues with the rifle other than the stock single stage trigger is way too heavy and not crisp my any stretch of the imagination. For a battle rifle the trigger would be just fine but for shooting tight groups it doesn't help a bit.

That being said, the gun is easily a sub-moa shooter regardless of ammo. I normally try to stick to black hills 175gr match ammo but I've had great results with prvi and hornady 175 match loads as well.

Sorry to hear of your frustrations with the rifle. I would reach out to POF and see what they can do for you.


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[Cobracutter]

Reason # 43 that piston AR's are retarded.

 

[Ballista One]

Says the guy who on previous threads said owns and loves a similar piston operated SCAR 17.

Take it easy there hi roller. There is a huge difference between a SCAR 17 and POF. You may way to educate yourself on the differences. If you have a bone to pick with somebody, do us a favor and use IM. Thanks!

 

[peterh]

Which trigger did your POF come with?
single stage I'm guessing while your RRA likely had their very good 2stage oe trigger.. just a thought
POF usually uses the best components available during production.. and have shipped rifles with several different trigger configurations..
I own POF and RRA rifles, Both exceed my shooting skills as far as accuracy but I did struggle with accuracy with my POF until switching to a 2 stage trigger.
just my 2c.

My POF has the factory single stage trigger. I don't think single stage or two stage trigger is my problem with this rifle. I shoot A Remington 223 bolt gun with no problem. I believe there must be something else wrong with this it, what it is I don''t know. I haven't become disgusted with this rifle yet but if I don't get anything resolved with POF soon I'm going to let this thing go.

 

[Sebben]

Says the guy who on previous threads said owns and loves a similar piston operated SCAR 17.

The scar and ARs are completely different platforms. The scar runs on tracks and the AR uses a tube receiver. The ARs bolt carrier is designed to be pushed back by gas directly inline with the bore of the receiver by gas. Not an off center force like in a piston AR. I was an advocate for piston ARs before I experienced the pros and cons of both first hand. Now after taking a step back and looking at DI and Piston driven AR platforms I find it to be a solution to a non existent problem.

Now the argument of suppressors will come up and again, it's a moot point. The brass is extracted while the suppressor is still under pressure, gas is vented both ways. The excess gas comes through the chamber and not the gas tube. That gas coming from the chamber is where the "dirt" comes from.

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[peterh]

This is more in the line of a comment rather than any statement on my part. I recently sold my RRA and after putting along a bunch of cash I acquired a POF 416 18" barrel. I not only fell in love with the ascetics of the POF but I bought into the whole piston mentality if you want to call it that. I mounted a nice Leopold 4-14X40 30mm scope on an American Arms quick detachable mount and off to the range I went, I have to admit I was quite excited. I took along several boxes of ammo ranging from 55 to 75 grains bullets. Federal 69 match and 75 Previ match. I also had some Hornady 75 grain steel match ammo with me.

I was used to shooting 1/2 MOA and the occasional 1/4 MOA with my RRA, this was mostly done with the 69 Federal Gold Match. You can't imagine how frustrated I became when after shooting the POF the best I was able to do was on average 2 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. I double checked the scope mounting and it was on nice and tight, I really concentrated on my breathing and trigger control but nothing seemed to help.

Today I was back at the range giving it another try. I took some PMC Tac 62grain ammo and that was the worst shooting I have ever done, the best was one group 2MOA and the worst was 3 1/2 MOA. I don't know if this is just a case of a gun that is ammo finicky and it's just a matter of finding the ammo it likes. On the POF web page they state they do a lot of shooting the Wolf steel case ammo, maybe that's what I need to try, no more of the good stuff I'm going to feed it some cheap ammo and see what happens.

I have a bad feeling I made a big mistake getting rid of my RR, I don't know this POF might be for sale soon............

Wrote to POF President Mr, Frank DeSomma and I received an email with instructions to send the gun back to them. I will post what ever happens next......

 

[Rob01]

Good to hear. Frank is a great guy and will get you taken care of. That's why I told you to contact him or his son, Cody.

 

[Cobracutter]

Says the guy who on previous threads said owns and loves a similar piston operated SCAR 17.

Yet you cannot discern the difference between the AR platform and the SCAR platform.

Another online training member who needs to spend more time listening and less posting.

Nice try though.

 

[Cobracutter]

The scar and ARs are completely different platforms. The scar runs on tracks and the AR uses a tube receiver. The ARs bolt carrier is designed to be pushed back by gas directly inline with the bore of the receiver by gas. Not an off center force like in a piston AR. I was an advocate for piston ARs before I experienced the pros and cons of both first hand. Now after taking a step back and looking at DI and Piston driven AR platforms I find it to be a solution to a non existent problem.

Now the argument of suppressors will come up and again, it's a moot point. The brass is extracted while the suppressor is still under pressure, gas is vented both ways. The excess gas comes through the chamber and not the gas tube. That gas coming from the chamber is where the "dirt" comes from.

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No offense bud, but that logic is lost on 90% of the people here. They are going to buy what they want, and like what they like, despite it being proven time and time again to be a solution looking for a problem.

 

[peterh]

No offense bud, but that logic is lost on 90% of the people here. They are going to buy what they want, and like what they like, despite it being proven time and time again to be a solution looking for a problem.

Well, to me the piston design makes since when compared to the DI, the receiver runs cooler and since there are no gasses running back into the bolt, stays cleaner. What I have heard is that the piston guns are not as accurate as the DI type. I still don't know if there is any fact to that or not, I'm having this problem with this POF and I hear others describe similar situations. Like I stated I'm sending the gun back, I'm keeping my fingers crosses that they do find something wrong with it and it comes back a tac driver. I would like to dispel for myself this thing that piston guns are inherently not accurate......

 

[lennyo3034]

They aren't saying that piston guns are bad. Just that piston systems in a platform designed for DI is not ideal.

 

[Sebben]

Well, to me the piston design makes since when compared to the DI, the receiver runs cooler and since there are no gasses running back into the bolt, stays cleaner. What I have heard is that the piston guns are not as accurate as the DI type. I still don't know if there is any fact to that or not, I'm having this problem with this POF and I hear others describe similar situations. Like I stated I'm sending the gun back, I'm keeping my fingers crosses that they do find something wrong with it and it comes back a tac driver. I would like to dispel for myself this thing that piston guns are inherently not accurate......

What heat in the receiver? Are you doing mag dumps? I was a strong advocate for the piston AR until I was forced to look at DI and piston objectively and not try to justify the purchase of a lemon POF. Take a step back and look at other piston platforms and how they work. Then look at the AR. Once you have a firm understanding of the mechanics not just on paper but in practice then you might understand that the piston doesn't belong on an AR.

I thought I was set in my ways and confidence in piston guns until I ran literally thousands of blanks per day through an M4 running opfor for the army. Dirt doesn't begin to describe blanks haha. Whish I took pictures after a full day shooting blanks. There were stalagmites in this poor colt and the thing kept ticking. The only malfunctions I experienced were caused by the shitty aluminum mags, the blanks shifting forward and the followers sticking because of the sheer amount of shit in them.



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[Cobracutter]

Well, to me the piston design makes since when compared to the DI, the receiver runs cooler and since there are no gasses running back into the bolt, stays cleaner. What I have heard is that the piston guns are not as accurate as the DI type. I still don't know if there is any fact to that or not, I'm having this problem with this POF and I hear others describe similar situations. Like I stated I'm sending the gun back, I'm keeping my fingers crosses that they do find something wrong with it and it comes back a tac driver. I would like to dispel for myself this thing that piston guns are inherently not accurate......

No offense, but the only thing it makes sense to is novice and ignorant shooters.

Its marketing, plain any simple. The debate was decided years ago by people way smarter than any of us here.

Simply put, Experienced shooters don't use them. They don't use them unless they are running SBR/Can combo, which is why the HK416 was developed. If they are running a piston setup for this reason, they are using HK, not POF. Since then, the art of creating short , reliable DI guns have been figured out so there is zero need for piston.

POF is nothing but a bunch of bullshit hype. The boards are littered with pissed off customers and people who got fucked buying their shit. Overpriced, hyped shit that is inferior to a simple colt 6920.

 

[JeffLebowski]

No offense, but the only thing it makes sense to is novice and ignorant shooters.

Its marketing, plain any simple. The debate was decided years ago by people way smarter than any of us here.

Simply put, Experienced shooters don't use them. They don't use them unless they are running SBR/Can combo, which is why the HK416 was developed. If they are running a piston setup for this reason, they are using HK, not POF. Since then, the art of creating short , reliable DI guns have been figured out so there is zero need for piston.

POF is nothing but a bunch of bullshit hype. The boards are littered with pissed off customers and people who got fucked buying their shit. Overpriced, hyped shit that is inferior to a simple colt 6920.

Exactly, what would LowLight know over you?

 

[Graham]

Comment regarding POF, did I make a mistake!!!!

Simply put, Experienced shooters don't use them....

POF is nothing but a bunch of bullshit hype. The boards are littered with pissed off customers and people who got fucked buying their shit. Overpriced, hyped shit that is inferior to a simple colt 6920.

My POF 416, that I got in 2010, functions flawlessly and still shoots sub-MOA at 100 with 77SMKs.

 

[Cobracutter]

Exactly, what would LowLight know over you?

Without speaking for LL, What do guys like Larry Vickers, Travis Halley, Pat Mcnamara, Frank Proctor, Kyle Defoor , Hackthorn, Rodgers, ect know. More than anybody on this site, and thats for sure.

The only piston any of them are running are 416's. Most of them, still preffer DI guns and recomend them over any piston gun. There are clear reasons for this, as I have spelled out multiple times on this forum.

Do you need me to color a picture for you to understand?

 

[JeffLebowski]

Without speaking for LL, What do guys like Larry Vickers, Travis Halley, Pat Mcnamara, Frank Proctor, Kyle Defoor , Hackthorn, Rodgers, ect know. More than anybody on this site, and thats for sure.

The only piston any of them are running are 416's. Most of them, still preffer DI guns and recomend them over any piston gun. There are clear reasons for this, as I have spelled out multiple times on this forum.

Do you need me to color a picture for you to understand?

You know, you add precisely fuck all to this site. You're a well read parrot of shit you read on the internet. Your borderline Tourette's combined with your complete shrill KAC fanboy screeching destroys every thread you're in. I know it doesn't jive with what you read on M4C and here but believe it or not, there are good guns that aren't recommended by folks you don't know and will never shoot with. You don't have to denigrate other people's purchases. You don't have to act like a complete ass and snobbish fanboy who can't seem to post his own real life experience other than in contracts and changing out parts.

Lots of guys with combat experience and real life skills are humble and good guys. Lots of guys like this wait and see what people do in real life and don't take the self gratifying step of talking down to guys who plunked their hard earned money down on something that CobraCutter doesn't approve of because of KAC's ISO certification and the contracts KAC has won.

Quit being a dick, quit being childish, and you should probably take a break from the internet.

 

[Cobracutter]

You know, you add precisely fuck all to this site. You're a well read parrot of shit you read on the internet. Your borderline Tourette's combined with your complete shrill KAC fanboy screeching destroys every thread you're in. I know it doesn't jive with what you read on M4C and here but believe it or not, there are good guns that aren't recommended by folks you don't know and will never shoot with. You don't have to denigrate other people's purchases. You don't have to act like a complete ass and snobbish fanboy who can't seem to post his own real life experience other than in contracts and changing out parts.

Lots of guys with combat experience and real life skills are humble and good guys. Lots of guys like this wait and see what people do in real life and don't take the self gratifying step of talking down to guys who plunked their hard earned money down on something that CobraCutter doesn't approve of because of KAC's ISO certification and the contracts KAC has won.

Quit being a dick, quit being childish, and you should probably take a break from the internet.

Welcome to 10 years ago, You are the one who started the pissing and fighting in this thread.

No one is talking about KAC in here, you are projecting. If you got a problem, then pm me or keep it to yourself, beacuse its YOUR problem.

Go ahead and look at the title of the thread. Your trying to hard.

 

[jaycoux]

I have never owned a piston ar. Cobracutter, what makes a piston driven ar inferior? Carrier tilt? Or is there more? What makes the scar design better in your opinion?

J

 

[Ballista One]

I have never owned a piston ar. Cobracutter, what makes a piston driven ar inferior? Carrier tilt? Or is there more? What makes the scar design better in your opinion?

J

Seriously? This isn't the right time or place to try and answer a question (again) that can't be answered. Given that the thread should have died quietly after post #29, why don't we let it sit quietly until the OP gets his answer from POF.

 

[jaycoux]

Take it easy there high roller. There is a big difference between a scar and a pof.....

 

[380long]

I'm new here but the responses from cobracutter are exactly why I don't like the M4 Forum. Why is it so bad if someone buys a gun THEY like? Maybe the piston isn't needed but I like them because they are easier to clean. Does it have to be a piece of shit because it's different? I have a POF and have not had any problems so far and think it's a good looking gun. I think DI AR's are great too...just don't see the need for someone to put another persons opinions down to make them self try to look smarter. I guess this forum is just like all the others...too bad.

 

[peterh]

I'm sorry guy's but there really isn't any reason for us to be taking jabs at each other over something like wether Piston is better than DI or vise versa. I appreciate all the comments and advise even though some of them don't really jive, I respect everybody's opinions. This is a great place to share information with each other, but if we're going to fight with each other than after a while it really becomes useless.

As for me, I'm no expert I just love guns and shooting. I now believe I made a mistake with the POF, I mostly shoot bench for groups, the three RR rifles I have owned were really surprisingly accurate. Why did I sell the last one? well we all make mistakes, looking for something new and exiting that's all I can say. I know someone here will post back "well if you shoot for groups get a bolt gun", I do have a bolt gun (TRG 22) and love it but I also love the AR guns.

"peace and love to all"

 

[Sebben]

I'm new here but the responses from cobracutter are exactly why I don't like the M4 Forum. Why is it so bad if someone buys a gun THEY like? Maybe the piston isn't needed but I like them because they are easier to clean. Does it have to be a piece of shit because it's different? I have a POF and have not had any problems so far and think it's a good looking gun. I think DI AR's are great too...just don't see the need for someone to put another persons opinions down to make them self try to look smarter. I guess this forum is just like all the others...too bad.

Lately there is a lot of butthurt going around on the hide. Like 2 years ago it was a flame here and there but it was mostly intelligent conversations with tact. I think it might be due to the recent influx of new shooters that bought up every thing during the gun craze. All of the sudden everyone and their brother is a subject matter expert because they bought an ar 15 at the local Walmart.

 

[peterh]

Lately there is a lot of butthurt going around on the hide. Like 2 years ago it was a flame here and there but it was mostly intelligent conversations with tact. I think it might be due to the recent influx of new shooters that bought up every thing during the gun craze. All of the sudden everyone and their brother is a subject matter expert because they bought an ar 15 at the local Walmart.

Sebben, you could be wright but nonetheless, if you see a post from one of those Walmart guy's isn't it better just to ignore them than to throw more wood on the fire and turn the whole thing into a combat zone. I do agree with you though that there seems to be a lack of intelligent conversation going on these days.......

 

[Cobracutter]

I'm new here but the responses from cobracutter are exactly why I don't like the M4 Forum. Why is it so bad if someone buys a gun THEY like? Maybe the piston isn't needed but I like them because they are easier to clean. Does it have to be a piece of shit because it's different? I have a POF and have not had any problems so far and think it's a good looking gun. I think DI AR's are great too...just don't see the need for someone to put another persons opinions down to make them self try to look smarter. I guess this forum is just like all the others...too bad.

The difference is this is all New to YOU. You don't know the history or have the experience with these products and companies. Many people on this site, other sites (including M4c) have and when the chips fall, for the most part we know whats stands.

When new and ignorant shooters come around and show off their latest toy, cool. When they come around and start preaching how its better than this or some other nonsensical bullshit that has been proven 100's of times, its frustrating.

People end up retyping and re-educating each new crop of new and ignorant shooters and its gets old.

The truth is, new shooters don't know what they don't know. Your asking the wrong questions and making the wrong assumptions. You think your one gun, with your little experience and low round count, is somehow representative of how that product is known to function under heavy and sustained use. They don't even think to ask that question , because if they did, they wouldn't post the ignorant shit they do.

So do this for the last 10-15 years on various boards, and you see why certain sites have low tolerance for the bullshit. They are that way because experienced shooters and people who TRULLY want to learn, can focus on relevant topics and not pissing matches about why a BCM or COLT is superior to OLY arms or Bushmaster. They deal with the same stupid posts by ignorant shooters everyday for years. It gets old and people become less patient. Especially when all the information is already posted and could be easily searched and read out, instead of creating the same exact post everyday by someone new.

Every one has a right to an opinion, but not all opinions are equal. I might have an opinion on how a brain surgery should go, but that does not make my opinion equal to a neurosurgeon. I also wouldn't be silly enough to get into a pissing match, arguing about the finer details that I cannot even beginning to grasp with him. Maybe after I go through pre-med, medical school, residency and then spend a few years doing the job, I can challenge his opinion.... but until I understand fully what I am talking about, my opinion is worthless.

Asking questions is fine, even when they are stupid and easily answered with a little research. It might get annoying and repetitive, but most shooters are pretty receptive to teaching the new crop of guys about the sport/hobby/craft. But don't start making asinine statements that you don't understand.

Go over to SOCNET one one of the sites populated primarily by real operators and try the shit you do on any of these forums and you will be dealt with swiftly and severely. People here are mild and gentle in comparison.

If you have a thin skin and get offended easy, then reconsider another hobby than shooting.

 

[380long]

The difference is this is all New to YOU. You don't know the history or have the experience with these products and companies. Many people on this site, other sites (including M4c) have and when the chips fall, for the most part we know whats stands.

When new and ignorant shooters come around and show off their latest toy, cool. When they come around and start preaching how its better than this or some other nonsensical bullshit that has been proven 100's of times, its frustrating.

People end up retyping and re-educating each new crop of new and ignorant shooters and its gets old.

The truth is, new shooters don't know what they don't know. Your asking the wrong questions and making the wrong assumptions. You think your one gun, with your little experience and low round count, is somehow representative of how that product is known to function under heavy and sustained use. They don't even think to ask that question , because if they did, they wouldn't post the ignorant shit they do.

So do this for the last 10-15 years on various boards, and you see why certain sites have low tolerance for the bullshit. They are that way because experienced shooters and people who TRULLY want to learn, can focus on relevant topics and not pissing matches about why a BCM or COLT is superior to OLY arms or Bushmaster. They deal with the same stupid posts by ignorant shooters everyday for years. It gets old and people become less patient. Especially when all the information is already posted and could be easily searched and read out, instead of creating the same exact post everyday by someone new.

Every one has a right to an opinion, but not all opinions are equal. I might have an opinion on how a brain surgery should go, but that does not make my opinion equal to a neurosurgeon. I also wouldn't be silly enough to get into a pissing match, arguing about the finer details that I cannot even beginning to grasp with him. Maybe after I go through pre-med, medical school, residency and then spend a few years doing the job, I can challenge his opinion.... but until I understand fully what I am talking about, my opinion is worthless.
W
Asking questions is fine, even when they are stupid and easily answered with a little research. It might get annoying and repetitive, but most shooters are pretty receptive to teaching the new crop of guys about the sport/hobby/craft. But don't start making asinine statements that you don't understand.

Go over to SOCNET one one of the sites populated primarily by real operators and try the shit you do on any of these forums and you will be dealt with swiftly and severely. People here are mild and gentle in comparison.

If you have a thin skin and get offended easy, then reconsider another hobby than shooting.

I don't have thin skin and I am not new to shooting, been doing it about 22 plus years. I didn't say any rifle was better than the other and will not likely be taking any of my AR's DI or piston into battle unless we get invaded. I guess if someone (you) is tired of posting the same thing over and over then why do you get involved in these threads. If I were you I would not even bother if it makes you that angry.

 

[Blackstone]

I have a POF in 5.56 and 7.62.

I have shot the heck out of the 5.56 in several classes and comps.
Nothing but good things to say.
One high round count class at BW years back, probably 3,500 rounds in 5 days in the dirt and heat and it ran like a champ when DI guns were failing too frequently.
No stoppages of any kind and I shot expert and just missed taking top honors.
Other than having to put in anti-walk trigger pins, it performs above expectations.
I wish I had one with the newer lighter hand guards though.

 

[peterh]

The difference is this is all New to YOU. You don't know the history or have the experience with these products and companies. Many people on this site, other sites (including M4c) have and when the chips fall, for the most part we know whats stands.

When new and ignorant shooters come around and show off their latest toy, cool. When they come around and start preaching how its better than this or some other nonsensical bullshit that has been proven 100's of times, its frustrating.

People end up retyping and re-educating each new crop of new and ignorant shooters and its gets old.

The truth is, new shooters don't know what they don't know. Your asking the wrong questions and making the wrong assumptions. You think your one gun, with your little experience and low round count, is somehow representative of how that product is known to function under heavy and sustained use. They don't even think to ask that question , because if they did, they wouldn't post the ignorant shit they do.

So do this for the last 10-15 years on various boards, and you see why certain sites have low tolerance for the bullshit. They are that way because experienced shooters and people who TRULLY want to learn, can focus on relevant topics and not pissing matches about why a BCM or COLT is superior to OLY arms or Bushmaster. They deal with the same stupid posts by ignorant shooters everyday for years. It gets old and people become less patient. Especially when all the information is already posted and could be easily searched and read out, instead of creating the same exact post everyday by someone new.

Every one has a right to an opinion, but not all opinions are equal. I might have an opinion on how a brain surgery should go, but that does not make my opinion equal to a neurosurgeon. I also wouldn't be silly enough to get into a pissing match, arguing about the finer details that I cannot even beginning to grasp with him. Maybe after I go through pre-med, medical school, residency and then spend a few years doing the job, I can challenge his opinion.... but until I understand fully what I am talking about, my opinion is worthless.

Asking questions is fine, even when they are stupid and easily answered with a little research. It might get annoying and repetitive, but most shooters are pretty receptive to teaching the new crop of guys about the sport/hobby/craft. But don't start making asinine statements that you don't understand.

Go over to SOCNET one one of the sites populated primarily by real operators and try the shit you do on any of these forums and you will be dealt with swiftly and severely. People here are mild and gentle in comparison.

If you have a thin skin and get offended easy, then reconsider another hobby than shooting.

WOW!! I never thought posting my frustrations with this POF would stir up a hornets nest. Since Iv'e had this rifle a short time and in my area there aren't any to compare with, I thought I wound solicit information here. Aside form the 'none' solicited info, there where some very informative comments from members and I appreciate every one of them.

To those who for whatever reason seem extremely agitated and frustrated over what to them may seem like stupid, ignorant questions and/or opinions I say; remember we are all brothers in this hobby, have a little tolerance,and for the strong opinionated I say, that's ok just don't push so hard........