Confused on Varget load for 168 SMK Hodgdon vs Sierra

[wayno1]

Rifle: Rem 700 PSS, 26" bbl, 1/12 twist, using federal match brass, Fed 210 primers

Appreciate advice - about to start loading. The Sierra manual has a start load for Varget of 38.7 for the Sierra 168 SMK.
When I go to the Hodgdon site it shows.

168 GR. BAR TTSX BT Hodgdon Varget .308 2.800" 41.0 2514 46,100 PSI 45.0C 2737 60,000 PSI
168 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.800" 42.0 2520 41,200 CUP 46.0C 2731 50,600 CUP

Hodgdon web site IMR Smokeless Powders web site Winchester Smokeless Propellants web site

So, should I be starting at the Sierra manual for 38.7 or the Hodgdon at 42.0?

Thanks VERY much

Wayne

 

[n8lusk]

Wayne,

My start load for .308win with Varget and a 168 is usually:

Fed Match brass
CCI BR2 primer
Sierra Match King 168
43.5 gr Varget
.010" off the lands

I have not had any pressure problems in the summer or winter with this load and it is "usually" within a half grain from stacking. So to answer your question I would start with 42 grains. What brass, primer, barrel, barrel length and twist are you shooting? May help others in making a suggestion for ya.

Nathan

 

[BobinNC]

I too would start at 42 grains, as I found Hodgdon's data to be very accurate and they print actual pressures.

However, proper procedure when you have 2 different start charges for the same bullet, with the same powder, is to measure the difference (42.0-38.7= 3.3 grains) and take half. So that would yield an average starting charge of 40.3 grains.

Again, I've stuffed many 308's with Varget in bullet weights of 150 grains to 185 grains, so I trust Hodgdon's starting points. But if your ever unsure, and are perplexed over conflicting start data, average the two and then test.

 

[wayno1]

Thanks for the reply!
I have 300 federal brass I am using now, Fed 210 match, rem 700 PSS, 1/12 twist,
Another 500 LC havent started messing with yet.

 

[melloyello]

From my experience 42gr is a good starting point even when using Lake City, Remington or Winchester brass. Loaded to 2.80" OAL you are going to start to compress powder at about 45.5gr of Varget. Nothing wrong with starting at 41gr just to be safe but 38.7gr is way low. I would trust the powder manufacturer any day over the bullet manufacturer.

 

[wayno1]

Thanks, Bob, appreciate that. MUCH better than starting at 37.8 and working up in .3 grain increments!

 

[wayno1]

Thanks! I agree, appreciate the response!

Wayne

 

[wayno1]

Thanks to all for the input.
Will be working with the 41 grain starting point with an OAL of 2.80.
I noticed 'n8lusk' said he worked with .010 off lands.
I have the RCBS micrometer kit to check the lands and set the bullet off that distance. Will work the powder up to and reasonable accuracy point so I have rounds to fire for matches coming up soon, then back off the powder to 42.0 again and work the loading up from .010 off the lands with a slow powder increase.
Thanks!

 

[Graham]

The load you eventually settle on will depend on your chamber. That said, it Varget doesn't shoot well with 168s from 2400fps to 2800fps in your rifle you have a problem unrelated to the powder. 3/10 grain increments is not likely to tell you much with Varget. Look at the powder can. There's a recommended 168gr load on the can. Stare there. Try half a grain and one full grain on each side of that. If one of those four loads doesn't shoot well at factory length you have a gun problem.

 

[wayno1]

Wow, 'duh' on my part. Here we are talking about following the powder mfr recommendations and I missed that.
I will do exactly that.
The rifle is a tack driver with Fed GMM 168 BTHP. Trying to duplicate that as much as possible so I have that on the shelf always. Then want to develop longer range loads for F Class (300,500,600yds) and vary seating depth off the lands to squeeze some more accuracy. Once I get to be a better shooter, will tweak the rifle. Right now have less than 60 rounds through it. Did the proper break in procedure but did little other than sight in the rifle at 100 yds with my issued scope. Now that I am on my own, got a Leupold 8.5x25x50 30mm with target dot and want to get more serious now that I don't have to work weekends anymore ('retired'),
Thank you for the help!
Wayne

PS - looked at the jug. Shows only onwe load for .308 - 46.0 grains, 2.80 OAL with a 2770~ velocity. The web site shows that as max. BAcking off 10% of max for the usual 'rule of thumb' puts me back around 41.4 ish

 

[fdkay]

I have found that 44 grains of varget under a 168 SMK or 168 hornady BTHP match shoots very close to the FGMM load and is very accurate in the three rifles I tried it in.

 

[wayno1]

Thanks fdkay,
Will try that on Tuesday at the range, but will work up to in in my rifle.

Wayne

 

[SavageStag]

For F-Class I wouldn't even mess with the 168's Go with 155's or 175 SMK/178 AMAX or BTHP

 

[wayno1]

I have 1000+ 168 grainers
couldn't get any of the others

 

[JeffinTX]

I have 1000+ 168 grainers
couldn't get any of the others

So if you're shooting 300-600 (midrange), its a fine bullet. Don't worry about the 168 smk. It was originally designed for 300m international shooting. It has won plenty at 600yds as well. You probably will end up around 44-45 grn of Varget with the 168s and commercial brass. It doesn't really care about jump too much but 0.020" is a good place to start.

 

[blackriflecollector]

I went through the same questions regarding the Sierra vs. Hodgdon data and decided to start at 40 grains. Apparently my gun likes its loads on the lighter side. My most promising groups came at 40 and 42 grains of Varget under a 168 gr SMK seated at 2.820 OAL. FGMM brass and BR-2 primers. I believe the 5th round flyer on the 42 gr group was me as it was at the end of my trip and it was hot and humid. Got some slight pressure signs (shiny marks on case head) at 44 grains. Gun is a custom built on a Stiller TAC30 with a 1:11 HV Broughton barrel.

 

[17874]

You would be fine at 42 grains to start. My rifle likes 175's over 45 grains of Varget at 2.83" (.015 off lands).

 

[clmayfield]

They still make varget?

 

[40xs]

If you've got a thousand 168's i say "Choot dem things". In "my" gun I load 46 gr. varget over 168 gr. for an accurate load. Don't try this in yours without working up. Theres probably hundreds of match shooters that have used 45grs. of varg. over the 175 with good results. I had an awsome load of 46.2 varg over 168 berger vld. that gave 2915 fps. out of a 29 inch. bbl. unbelievable accuracy @ 600yd. Again, don't start out this high, work up if your rig is up to it. Not to make light of published manuals, but remember their loads are printed for the oldest and weakest actions ever manufatured, for their own liability. Know what the pressure signs are and use the manuals as a good guide and be extra cautious in using their max. loads. All my loads are for performance at distance, not hunting or incidental shooting.

 

[farmerbrown]

The source of Hodgdon data?

The Hodgdon data (at least historically) seems to come from the Australian powder manufacturers (now owned by the French "Thales" group)...
See here: ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide
And it doesn't seem as 'lawyered up' as many other sources of data - so be cautious!

 

[Clay McGill]

lol

 

[spife7980]

Every bit of this info is hilarious. Js, please anyone don’t listen to anything in this thread, unless you want to be shooting inferior loads. 168gr should be minimum 2900 fps. Which is very achievable with varget. Smdh, bunch of magazine warriors.

No one has read this thread but you in over a decade.

Edit: commenting that you’re a dumbass

 

[Clay McGill]

It made you comment though.

 

[Doom]

Every bit of this info is hilarious. Js, please anyone don’t listen to anything in this thread, unless you want to be shooting inferior loads. 168gr should be minimum 2900 fps. Which is very achievable with varget. Smdh, bunch of magazine warriors.

Anyone spouting a minimum of 2900 fps for a 168 in 308 definitely should not be listened to.

 

[918v]

Anyone spouting a minimum of 2900 fps for a 168 in 308 definitely should not be listened to.

People who advocate for the Special Olympics load often are local legends.

 

[Doom]

Hmm, seems that post went the way of the dinosaur.

 

[diggler1833]

It made you comment though.

Sometimes drawing attention to yourself by blasting nonsense can draw the attention of others...especially if you necromance an 11 year old thread to do so.

Think of it as the equivalent of you running through a combat zone with a strobe light attached to you, and then you double down on the first individual to point it out.

Best of luck to you, but you have made the list quickly of members to ignore in the reloading section of this forum.

 

[straightshooter1]

Sometimes drawing attention to yourself by blasting nonsense can draw the attention of others...

This has been working pretty well in our politics these days.

 

[Slides]

To add a little bit of value to this dumpster fire, ADI loaded ammunition with 168s runs 2813fps from a 26inch 12 twist LW Varmint barrel on a Howa I put together for a friend.

Runs 2722fps from my 20 inch Savage impulse.

I pulled a projectile on a soft strike out of the Savage impulse and it was about 45.6gr 2208/Varget based on the ADI pressure test data.

I think starting at or below the ADI minimum load is a complete waste of time from a pressure and accuracy standpoint unless they are the only components/rifle you have and you don't want a new shooter developing a flinch.

 

[wvfarrier]

44 grains has been absolute magic with 168s from both my AR10 and my Origin.