Considering reloading, but am not sure.

creedmoor664

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Jun 10, 2019
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I am shooting a RPR Gen3 in 6.5 Creedmoor and have been using Hornady American Gunner 140 Gr BTHP. My question: How much better accuracy can I expect by reloading that Hornady spent brass or even purchasing new good brass in a reloader by handloading, cleaning, resizing, etc. My goal is only to shoot for best groups at each distance up to 1300 yds. I know there are many many variables but I have the time to reload as I am retired, and the desire to shot as good as I can be as an old Viet Nam Veteran with old eyes, arthritis, but perseverance. I got hooked the first time at the range when I zeroed my 6x24x50 scope at 100yds and shot sub moa groups consistently. That said, I have no desire to enter competitions. How much better groups will reloading vs good match ammo give me?
 
Can I improve on the match ammo by handloading?

You can most certainly improve with handloads over the commercially available match ammo.
As good as many of the commercial loads are they are still just mass produced items that are subject to variation from lot to lot or are just out of the node for the particular barrel you want to run them in.
By handloading you can remove as many of those variables as you want just depends how far you want to venture down the rabbit hole.
Many detest handloading or see it as a necessary evil but many I'm sure like me actually enjoy it.
 
Can I improve on the match ammo by handloading?

Hey I was in a similar position and recently just started reloading for my Sako Trg 22 6.5 cm. It was already an extremely accurate rifle. Shooting .25-.5” groups all day long. I was testing the ammo I was using with my chrono and wasn’t too happy with the velocity and spread so I decided to start reloading. I’ve shot a total of 50 handloads and have found some loads that are shooting at about 0.1”, none of the loads I’ve shot have been worse than 0.5”. It’s not very difficult once you read and watch a few videos. Initially I was concerned about all the components needed. There was a YouTube series I watched that really clarified the process, specifically with new brass.

Let me know if you have any specific questions!
 
From an accuracy consideration you may improve on your group. If you are shooting a .7 MOA group you may see a .5 group. Since you said you are sub MOA I would say you should see a small change.

From a volume of shooting perspective you are paying about 80 cents a round for factory ammo, Targetusa. Using Midway prices and buying for 1000 rounds the Hornady bullet is 33 cents each, 4 cents a primer, 18 cents for Varget powder. So 55 cents a round. Or $800 a 1000 factory and $550 a 1000 reloading your brass. I did not figure in how much brass you have or wear on it. If I buy brass I figure 5 or 6 loadings, at Midway a 250 bag of brass is $103 or 41 cents a case. 8 cents a loading. Makes $654 a 1000. I did not put any shipping on factory ammo or components.

It would be hard to buy a good reloading set up for $250, an RCBS Rockchucker Supreme kit is $322 plus dies and does not have anything to trim or clean brass.

As a hobby and accuracy enhancement yes. For economy, it will take a couple thousand rounds to break even, unless you are also loading other calibers. Personally, my gear has paid itself off except for my new Lyman case prep center. I haven't loaded anything since I bought it.

If you are one of the people who put a monetary value on your off time it will never be worth it.
 
PS:. I also buy components through group buys and buy on sale. When primers go on sale I buy a case. I used to coordinate Sierra Drop Shipping for the reduced prices. We would get together for powder for lower prices and bulk shipping on a pallet.
 
Thanks for the detailed breakdown. I just joined target sports prime to save a little money, but seeing your breakdown helps a lot. Need to shoot a lot to break even
 
Well, if you shoot enough in one year to burn out the barrel than you might consider reloading. Be advised it is a pain in the ass once you get used to it but if you can't be shooting you can at least be reloading.
 
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Thanks for all the info. It's been really very helpful. I think I will reload just for the fun of it and possibly for some $ savings. I have a lot of Hornady 6.5 (1 shot) cases and won't need cases for a while. I am listing the equipment I am thinking I'll might use and want some feedback.:
Hornady Iron press
Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 2 die set 544655
LE Wilson case gauge
Hornady lock headspace gauge kit
Satern Powder funnel
Hornady Powder Lock n Load Powder Measure
Manual charge Trickler
Hornady Lock n Load Bench Scale
A few other tools as needed., like case lube, case deburring, etc.
 
Hey I was in a similar position and recently just started reloading for my Sako Trg 22 6.5 cm. It was already an extremely accurate rifle. Shooting .25-.5” groups all day long. I was testing the ammo I was using with my chrono and wasn’t too happy with the velocity and spread so I decided to start reloading. I’ve shot a total of 50 handloads and have found some loads that are shooting at about 0.1”, none of the loads I’ve shot have been worse than 0.5”. It’s not very difficult once you read and watch a few videos. Initially I was concerned about all the components needed. There was a YouTube series I watched that really clarified the process, specifically with new brass.

Let me know if you have any specific questions!
That's very encouraging.
 
I started out with resized factory brass that I had stockpiled. Shot excellent, not benchrest tiny groups but plenty sub 1/2 moa. I don’t buy high end brass (yet) I’ve had great luck with Winchester brass.

If I was retired I’d be reloading and shooting as much as my funds allowed me.

Get a basic set up like a RCBS rock chucker kit. You don’t need the latest and greated to resize brass, throw powder and shove a bullet in

True: The RockChucker kit is a good economical way to get into reloading. Of the cheaper dies, the Lee die set (4 dies, around $45) worked the best for me. Their neck sizer gave superb results. Of course: After 3 or 4 reloads, you have to run it through the FL die to bump back the shoulder 2 thou or so, to make sure the bolt will close. Imperial sizing wax worked better than the alternatives (for me, less botched cases). One tin will last almost forever. If you weight sort your Hornady brass into batches of 3 grain, you will likely see some improvement in accuracy (and SD), due to more consistent case volume. The high BC heavy—for-caliber Hornady ELD-M and Sierra SMK bullets are a good place to start. No need to chase speed, and that helps to preserve barrel life.

Left field idea: If you want to start at the lowest possible cost, you can buy one of the cheaper Lee presses for around $75, but you will likely want to upgrade later on. Resell it on ebay at that point. Or if you have a friend with a good press living nearby that can help you with case preparation, you could prep 600 or a 1000 pieces of brass in one day, and then shoot all of them once before getting back to case prep many months later. See if you like it before investing in good quality equipment. I started with two LE Wilson inline (arbor press) dies and a plastic mallet, so neck sizing only, and it worked! (Got an arbor press only later on. Then finally got a Rock Chucker). Would neck size and load brass three times, then store the empty fired cases in a zip lock bag until i could visit my buddy, and simply move on to the next batch of 50 weight sorted cases. Measure case length and put cases that grew beyond max length in the zip lock bag. I cleaned primer pockets with a screw driver or a punch, yes primitive but workable. Chamfering and deburring of the necks only needs to be done once. A cheap electronic or beam scale is adequate at first. A nice upgrade later on could be a Gempro 250 or the RCBS Chargemaster 1500.

I now use Redding Type-S FL dies, Lapua SRP brass, an FX120 lab quality scale with the autotrickler, annealed on an AMP induction machine, i use a Wilson trimmer with all the accessories, K&M neck turning tool, several mandrel dies, and almost every hand tool known to man... and the size of my groups on paper at 100 yards are perhaps 0.1” smaller... Group size or missed shots on steel targets at 500 yards and beyond are mostly determined by your wind reading skills. Yes SD matters to reduce vertical dispersion at long range, but fairly basic kit can get you to a point that is good enough.

Annealing is over rated unless you do it to extend brass life (and its only the SRP brass that will survive long enough to really benefit from that).

Shoot more, attend a training course, and learn to read the wind and you will outshoot the guy with the high end reloading kit. ?

If only i knew this 7 years ago, i would have 4 additional custom rifles in the safe today!! (But no, my FX120 is not for sale. Neither is the AMP machine... these are all luxuries that speed up the reloading process and make it more enjoyable.)
 
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I agree about buying the cheap lee stuff at first to see if reloading is for you. If it is then you can buy nicer stiff down the road and still use the lee stuff or sale it. If reloading is not for you then at least you will not be out of major $$$. Last thing you would want is to spend $3K on a nice setup and not use it because you dont enjoy it.
 
I agree about buying the cheap lee stuff at first to see if reloading is for you. If it is then you can buy nicer stiff down the road and still use the lee stuff or sale it. If reloading is not for you then at least you will not be out of major $$$. Last thing you would want is to spend $3K on a nice setup and not use it because you dont enjoy it.

Yep, wise advice. It is remarkably easy to spend $3K or even $5K on reloading equipment. AMP machine alone is over $1000. Is it worth it? Depends: If you compete (e. g. short range Bench Rest), and you went super consistent neck tension so you can get groups below 0.2”, then yes. Or if you shoot over a 1000 rounds of 223 practice ammo per month, and you need to save on reloading time, then (maybe) yes. But an automated (and much cheaper) gas flame annealer will be fine for this high volume application too.

The “shootings systems” i have, which (semi custom Remington and Savage rifles) with custom barrels, a BR rest and rear sand bag, plus me (the weakest link here) is maybe capable of 0.65” five groups at 100 yards, on average (long term aggregate). The AMP machine or any of the high end kit is not going to get me from 0.65” to 0.15” groups. [If you want to do that, buy a second hand BR rig that won a championship some years ago (can be had for as little as $3,000), use the brass the original owner prepared (tuned), shoot the bullets he shot (do NOT experiment!) and stick to his optimized load recipe. You will get to 0.35” fairly quickly. Then possibly to 0.25”...]

Resist the urge to spend your way to success until you are ready to start competing... (then get ready to spend $2K a month traveling to meets, rental cars and hotels!)
 
I agree about buying the cheap lee stuff at first to see if reloading is for you. If it is then you can buy nicer stiff down the road and still use the lee stuff or sale it. If reloading is not for you then at least you will not be out of major $$$. Last thing you would want is to spend $3K on a nice setup and not use it because you dont enjoy it.
I spent the last 10 years on Lee equipment exclusively. A Lee Classic Cast Press and Classic Turret Press, and Lee dies. They paid for themselves many times over with all the Pistol and rifle ammo I have made. The "precision ammo" I made was Half-ish MOA average group size is fine and dandy for me.

Only 5 days ago did I upgrade to a Dillon for higher volume.
 
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I haven't used Lee rifle dies but do for pistol and I've been happy. I have heard Lee iron presses are good. The only Lee press I've owned was a Loadmaster, I would not recommend it
 
It's not worth it. The time cost plus initial investment is far too great over the "getting more consistent and increasingly greater value" ammo the big names are producing.

It gets worse when you start with a single stage press and upgrade your way up to the progressive presses. A lot more money lost.

And then the opportunity cost of the time wasted on reloading. You could learn how to play the guitar and become a rockstar or start your own business to become the next Bezos.

The only reason you should reload is if you are interested in the HOBBY of reloading. Or are a competitor of shooting sports. Or live in states that oppress ammo purchases.

That being said, I'm about to throw down $5k on my reloading setup because I've been watching reloading videos and threads for YEARS and finally have the money to throw down for an awesome (to me) setup.
 
...

That being said, I'm about to throw down $5k on my reloading setup because I've been watching reloading videos and threads for YEARS and finally have the money to throw down for an awesome (to me) setup.
You should reconsider. I'm sincerely saying that based on your rifle zeroing thread. Not trying to be a dick, it's just reloading isn't for everyone.
 
You should reconsider. I'm sincerely saying that based on your rifle zeroing thread. Not trying to be a dick, it's just reloading isn't for everyone.
Lol, I figured all that stuff out. I'm gucci in that department. But be prepared for the same amount of stupidity with my upcoming reloading threads. ?
 
That being said, I'm about to throw down $5k on my reloading setup because I've been watching reloading videos and threads for YEARS and finally have the money to throw down for an awesome (to me) setup.

Sounds intruiging... I know this is somewhst off topic, but what do you intend to purchase?

Don’t disagree on “reloading is not for everybody”. There are multiple ways to blow up a gun via bad reloading mistakes. Real care and attention is required. “Learning from your mistakes” is not a great idea here. Easiest mistake of all: Forget to charge a case with powder, primer goes off and pushes the bullet into the barrel just deep enough to allow the confused operator to eject the empy case thinking “mmmm why did i forget to eject after firing the previous round?”, load a fresh round that does have a full charge of powder, shot goes off and barrel is plugged by the stuck bullet, and yep now the barrel and action might well turn into flying shrapnel. You really have to be meticulous. I weight sort my cases, and weight them all after i am done. The paranoid live longer...

Have recently ordered Berger loaded ammo (apparently, they acquired the Applied Ballistics commercial ammo operation from Bryan Litz), but have not shot it yet. If the groups are CONSISTENTLY 0.75” or better, (hopefully much better than that!), and SD < 12 fps, it would make me think twice about reloading, and i would end up shooting a lot more, which is really what i would prefer to do right now. Reloading for accuracy is fairly time consuming. And yes expensive. But so far i have not found factory ammo that competes with good reloads (at distances beyond 500 yards).

Aside: Tested 168 grain Federal Gold Medal Match 308 ammo some weeks ago for a friend. Ruger RPR. A box of twenty gave around 0.5” three shot groups (some were 0.3”) at 100 yards and an SD of 8 fps. That would work just fine for what i want to do.

Was i just lucky, or is this typical? Any other good factory options to try out?
 
The most expensive items highly recommended by other members
  • A&D Scale with Autotrickler
  • Giraud trimmer
  • Dillon XL750
  • Magnetospeed (Labradar was also considered)
  • Mitotuyo calipers
  • Redding dies
Spare toolheads, tools, dies, inline fab accessories for the Dillon, tumbler etc were probably another $500.
@NamibHunter
 
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Nice
The most expensive items highly recommended by other members
  • A&D Scale with Autotrickler
  • Giraud trimmer
  • Dillon XL750
  • Magnetospeed (Labradar was also considered)
  • Mitotuyo calipers
  • Redding dies
Spare toolheads, tools, dies, inline fab accessories for the Dillon, tumbler etc were probably another $500.
@NamibHunter

Nice! Well, you will be a happy dude with this kit! Top notch.

Also use the AND FX120i scale with the autotrickler and very happy with both. Will not ever sell it (it provided good accuracy and speed up the reloading process). Have wondered about the autothrower as a way to speed up the process some more. Just pricey.

Redding Type S dies are superb. Not made the jump to a progressive press yet, still thinking about it...
 
Take the blue pill and forget it. Keep on shooting. Save you some money. Now if you take the red pill, going down that rabbit hole never ends. There is just too many goodies, tools of reloading, components, that you just gotta have. Shit never ends. Wait, I thought that taking the red pill will save me money? Hell no! But I like doing it. And in the end, it’s a way better ammo. Like going into a custom shop.. lol
 
I haven't used Lee rifle dies but do for pistol and I've been happy. I have heard Lee iron presses are good. The only Lee press I've owned was a Loadmaster, I would not recommend it

Some Lee stuff is awesome
A lot of it is crap.

Pistol dies
Collet dies
Classic presses
Some of the hand primers.
All stuff I’d recommend.

Loadmaster and pretty much the rest?
894751BD-D12A-45E9-A708-B95DB1D13EE4.gif
 
Try Berger factory ammo. If it works in your rifle, collect and sell the once fired lapua brass and keep rolling.

Your cost per round after brass sale will be about the cost you could load it for.

Only reasons to reload with modern factory ammo:

You need more accuracy than factory can provide (not likely for steel)

Hobby

You shoot a round with little or no factory support

If you can satisfy one or more of those three things, don’t even bother with loading.
 
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Take the blue pill and forget it. Keep on shooting. Save you some money. Now if you take the red pill, going down that rabbit hole never ends. There is just too many goodies, tools of reloading, components, that you just gotta have. Shit never ends. Wait, I thought that taking the red pill will save me money? Hell no! But I like doing it. And in the end, it’s a way better ammo. Like going into a custom shop.. lol

I had to read this twice.

At first, I thought it was a dillon vs hornady commentary...
 
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The most expensive items highly recommended by other members
  • A&D Scale with Autotrickler
  • Giraud trimmer
  • Dillon XL750
  • Magnetospeed (Labradar was also considered)
  • Mitotuyo calipers
  • Redding dies
Spare toolheads, tools, dies, inline fab accessories for the Dillon, tumbler etc were probably another $500.
@NamibHunter

So, you saw that Dillon has obsoleted the XL 650 in deference to the XL 750 (?) What little I saw/could see of the 750, it didn't look much different than the 650. Having just bought another 650 a couple of months ago, I guess I'm a bit chafed that Dillon has done this. The 650 and 1050 have been staples of their product line for +/- 20 years, with constant improvements. Now, the 750 comes on the scene and makes the value of 650's decrease. Looks like Dillon has decided to generate new revenue by going the route of new products/part numbers every couple of years.

Ever heard the term "digital rot" ? It comes from the digital camera world and it means that the digital camera body that you bought 2 or 3 years ago is worth approximately 20% of what you paid for it, if that. Sure hope Dillon isn't going down the same path, but it doesn't look promising.....
 
Since I started reloading almost 45 years ago I think I'm probably 20 to 30 thou ahead by now vs buying factory ammo. Norma 220 swift and 218 Bee ammo was super expensive back when I was a kid. Then I got into different types of competition.

More time than money??, then learn to reload. The sooner you start....

Buy used and save. One example is I bought a like new Dillon Square deal for $150 with 3 cartridge conversion kits! I just leave it set up to make 357 ammo, 400 rounds an hour isn't hard to do. Been paid for a long time now.

I think it comes down to how much you'll be shooting to justify the if's and why's.

Got lot's of expendable income?? I remember when Ted Nugent ordered pallets of 44 mag ammo, lol.
 
So, you saw that Dillon has obsoleted the XL 650 in deference to the XL 750 (?) What little I saw/could see of the 750, it didn't look much different than the 650. Having just bought another 650 a couple of months ago, I guess I'm a bit chafed that Dillon has done this. The 650 and 1050 have been staples of their product line for +/- 20 years, with constant improvements. Now, the 750 comes on the scene and makes the value of 650's decrease. Looks like Dillon has decided to generate new revenue by going the route of new products/part numbers every couple of years.

Ever heard the term "digital rot" ? It comes from the digital camera world and it means that the digital camera body that you bought 2 or 3 years ago is worth approximately 20% of what you paid for it, if that. Sure hope Dillon isn't going down the same path, but it doesn't look promising.....
No, it's not that much different and it is $50 more expensive. But this is my first (and only) press and I inquired about the purchase literally 2 days before the announcement. Guys at the shop told me to wait.
Digital rot is a real thing only if you are insecure about not having the new shiny. My smartphone is 2 years old and I'd buy a 10 year old 911 Turbo anyday over the new one (depreciation is unreal on sports cars)
 
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No, it's not that much different and it is $50 more expensive. But this is my first (and only) press and I inquired about the purchase literally 2 days before the announcement. Guys at the shop told me to wait.
Digital rot is a real thing only if you are insecure about not having the new shiny. My smartphone is 2 years old and I'd buy a 10 year old 911 Turbo anyday over the new one (depreciation is unreal on sports cars)

No, I'm not insecure about any of it......that's kind of my point. I don't consider my 20 Y/O 650 worth any less than the one that I bought a couple of months ago. And, I have no desire to "upgrade" to the 750. My 650's aren't perfect, but they're pretty damned good. I can't imagine that the 750 "solves a bunch" of 650 "problems". And, for that matter, I don't consider 650's any less capable than the 750.

The (economic) problem lies in how the greater marketplace views one generation of product vs the latest generation. When the market has the choice of the 750, the market (buyers) builds in depreciation to the 650, even when it's not warranted. The 650 is a hell of a machine.

And, knowing what I know about the 650's and if I were in the buyers market right now, I'd do the same (expect significant discount on a 650). If I could buy a 650 for 2/3rds or 3/4s the cost of a 750, I'd jump on the 650.

Oh, and as far as the 10 year old 911.........Nah. 1991 964 Turbo, unmolested. (y) (y) (y) ;)
 
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I am shooting a RPR Gen3 in 6.5 Creedmoor and have been using Hornady American Gunner 140 Gr BTHP. My question: How much better accuracy can I expect by reloading that Hornady spent brass or even purchasing new good brass in a reloader by handloading, cleaning, resizing, etc. My goal is only to shoot for best groups at each distance up to 1300 yds. I know there are many many variables but I have the time to reload as I am retired, and the desire to shot as good as I can be as an old Viet Nam Veteran with old eyes, arthritis, but perseverance. I got hooked the first time at the range when I zeroed my 6x24x50 scope at 100yds and shot sub moa groups consistently. That said, I have no desire to enter competitions. How much better groups will reloading vs good match ammo give me?

I realize this thread is old, but just a few random comments: if you only shoot at 100 or 200 yards, and have no intention of going beyond that, then good factory ammo will be adequate to get you close to the potential of the rifle + shooter.

If you want to get your groups down below 0.3”, which is quite exceptional for a factory rifle, you can get into ‘accurizing’ your rifle as a hobby (bedding, trigger pull weight adjustment, perhaps a trigger upgrade, and one day perhaps a barrel upgrade, playing with the torque settings for the action screws). This route is a lot of fun too, and a nice learning curve. If this is of interest to you, then i would recommend you upgrade to quality match (factory) ammo like Berger, Black Hills, Federal GMM, etc. and keep the brass, check out one box of ammo from each, and see which one shoots the best in your rifle.

Then attend a weekend training course (it will save you hundreds of dollars in ammo). These courses look expensive but will save you money over the first year and rapidly accelerate your learning curve. Then practice. Operator is initially the weakest link (and that applies to all of us), and the quickest thing to ‘upgrade’. [At some point in their early career, that even applied to the championship winners of today.]

Reloading can be done with simple equipment, and be completely adequate, or it can also become a bottomless pit to throw money into. I know some folks who have spent $10K plus on reloading gear. [I would rather buy two $5K custom rifles! ?]
 
Since July 27th when I posted this thread, I have taken the plunge and have begun reloading at a fevered pace. Besides the obvious $ savings, (not counting equipment purchases) which will never be discussed with the wife, I have found it is infectious and satisfying. Developing loads is fun. I have come to a realization that improving my shooting position amnd breathing has as much merit as any other single p[rocess I do and has changed my groupings as well. I have shot out to 1000 yds, but long to shoot further. I am considering another rifle to add to my blooming collection. I am wanting a 338 Lapua but am still undecided as to which one, but hey, that is part of the vortex we spin into in the shooting sports. Getting ready to travel to the Ringneck Ranch in Western Kansas, to shoot out to 1300 yds.
Has anyone shot on their ranges? This forum continues to be a good source of information and friendly advice. Go Cardinals in the playoffs.....
 
Since July 27th when I posted this thread, I have taken the plunge and have begun reloading at a fevered pace. Besides the obvious $ savings, (not counting equipment purchases) which will never be discussed with the wife, I have found it is infectious and satisfying. Developing loads is fun. I have come to a realization that improving my shooting position amnd breathing has as much merit as any other single p[rocess I do and has changed my groupings as well. I have shot out to 1000 yds, but long to shoot further. I am considering another rifle to add to my blooming collection. I am wanting a 338 Lapua but am still undecided as to which one, but hey, that is part of the vortex we spin into in the shooting sports. Getting ready to travel to the Ringneck Ranch in Western Kansas, to shoot out to 1300 yds.
Has anyone shot on their ranges? This forum continues to be a good source of information and friendly advice. Go Cardinals in the playoffs.....
Good job on jumping in, I had hesitated to post back when. Unless the cost of ringneck ranch is uber high, go for it, you will have fun and learn, always fun to push the limits.
I doubt I would shoot if I did not reload, mostly the cases I shoot, factory ammo is not readily available so I am stuck doing so. Today I do buy pistol ammo, I am done with that crap unless prices climb or availability becomes an issue.
I do have to warn you on making cost savings statements though, in 33yrs of reloading, only savings I ever made was on bulk pistol ammo. When it comes to equipment, the grass is always greener over there. Plus, now you will shoot more than you ever have in your life, because now there is a goal.
 
Some Lee stuff is awesome
A lot of it is crap.

Pistol dies
Collet dies
Classic presses
Some of the hand primers.
All stuff I’d recommend.

Loadmaster and pretty much the rest?
View attachment 7125906

What problems do you have with your loadmaster? Do you have the updated priming system with a sizing die over the priming the station? Are you loading handgun or rifle ammo? I have loaded 15k+ rounds 40 S&W, and 44 mag on mine. It is a decent cheap machine for handgun ammo. I don't think I would want to mess with rifle ammo on it.
 
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What problems do you have with your loadmaster? Do you have the updated priming system with a sizing die over the priming the station? Are you loading handgun or rifle ammo? I have loaded 15k+ rounds 40 S&W, and 44 mag on mine. It is a decent cheap machine for handgun ammo. I don't think I would want to mess with rifle ammo on it.

my buddy has one.
for pistol it’s certainly functional but rifle usage will probably cause early baldness.
 
my buddy has one.
for pistol it’s certainly functional but rifle usage will probably cause early baldness.

Once I got the new primer system in it, flipped primers pretty much went away. I took the case feeder off of it too, it was more of a headache than help. The Loadmaster kind of reminds me of that game called Mouse Trap.
 
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The frustrating part is sometimes it just purrs along then has a hissy fit.

A hissy of flipped primers? When mine did that I would replace little plastic primer pusher. Or the ram would turn a little so the indexing arm would not run on its own. With the shell feeder in place. I had to lube the bar repeatedly during a session to keep it running. I also lube the ram with ATF a couple times per session. When it starts feeling a little stiff, I wipe the ram down, then wipe a little ATF on it.
 
What problems do you have with your loadmaster? Do you have the updated priming system with a sizing die over the priming the station? Are you loading handgun or rifle ammo? I have loaded 15k+ rounds 40 S&W, and 44 mag on mine. It is a decent cheap machine for handgun ammo. I don't think I would want to mess with rifle ammo on it.
I am a Hornady fan, even though they are pretty proprietary. I am using a Hornady L&L Iron press with auto primer system. I have the Hornady brass trimmer and 4 stations Franklin case prep center. For my 6.5 Creed I use the Hornady 6.5 mm Match die set. I only load 9mm and 45 handgun ammo.
 
I did not like the Loadmaster. I traded mine for a used shotgun with a loose buttstock and came out ahead. I had powder problems. The guy I traded with manually indexes it because he can't get it to automatically index.
 
here's a nice article/post which addresses some of the issues. It was penned by Mr. Galli:

I'm quite new to all of this but my limited take on much of this mimics to a measure what several have expressed.
If my rifle shot well and accomplished my requisite goals with factory ammunition, and if that caliber were readily commercially available i would likely stick with that.
If i wasn't satisfied with the resulting ballistic quality then one might well consider reloading/optimizing.
If perfection is your aim i would imagine maintaining and assuring ultimate control over your ammunition would lead you toward reloading.
Non commercially available calibers almost by definition will require either reloading or purchasing from a specialized commercial reloading outfit.
 
I love how factory rounds are soooo accurate today. That definitely has not always been the case. And because I had an inexpensive Lee press for 30 years that just kept on cranking out quality ammo at about 1/2 the cost of factory, I just kept on loading my own. Now, when shooting competitions, I love the accuracy of my Dasher, but sometimes would like the option to not have to compile another 300 before the weekend.

But, alas, I have chosen my path. LOL. Seriously, though, I willingly ignore my opportunity costs and go on convincing myself not to buy that "crazy-expensive" factory ammo as I spend the wee hours of the night making more. It is pretty satisfying dropping game or competing with it, though.
 
Try the Berger 6.5CM factory ammo. Loaded with Berger Hybrid projectiles. I got groups between 0.4 and 0.6” at 100. Keep the brass (Lapua SRP). Top quality components. My observed SD so far with this ammo has been in the 10-12 fps range, which is pretty good.

Yes hand loads can do a little better, but it takes well over $1K in kit to beat this result.

If you want to shoot to ELR (subsonic distances), you will likely want to reload and go down the rabbit hole...