Copper jacketed steel core .223?

[22lfb]

I have one ammo that's relatively cheap and gives really tight groups on paper... Geco 63gr FMJ "Target", comes on 10rnd plastic stripper clips. Now what worries me a bit is the fact it's steel core with a copper jacket. What's the hive mind's opinion on steel cored .223?

Rifle in question is a HK MR223 with chrome lined barrel. I don't want to destroy this by being "cheap" with my ammo. But it's the best ammo i found so far, so if there's nothing to worry about that would be sweet. But i lack the long term experience....

Any thoughts? Thank you!

 

[MK20]

How do you know it is steel core?

 

[roostercogburn98]

with chrome lined barrel.

Aka:

Made to shoot cheap shit ammo and be ok. Why else would .mil run them

 

[camocorvette]

Copper jacket is a totally different thing then copper washed jacket.
You'll be totally fine. Have you checked it with a magnet or cut a projectile apart?

 

[Ledzep]

Copper jacket, steel core, no problem.

Copper plating, steel jacket, reduced barrel life.

I haven't run the numbers for nearly a decade, but last time I did the savings in cheap steel jacketed stuff bought a new barrel 3x over by the time you wore the first one out. May be different with today's prices and an HK rifle.

 

[bfoosh006]

FWIW , I don't think your mentioned 63gr ammo is steel core, or even steel tipped ( like the SS109 / M855 bullets. )

And the current Maglula stripper clip charger ( 2nd Gen ) will charge mags , with those plastic stripper RUAG / GECO clips.... as well as USGI metal stripper clips.

 

[tomme boy]

Steel jacket will wear out a CL barrel in 15K rds or so. There have been lots of test with this. One on Accurate Shooter where they took 2 rifles and shot them till they wore out. The Steel Wolf ammo made to about 15K. The copper bullets were still shooting at 36K if I remember right.

 

[22lfb]

Thanks for the replys so far!

I investigated further - and i was wrong. It's indeed not steel cored. It's lead cored with a copper plated(?) soft steel jacket. My bad, i based my assumption on taking a file to the bullet. The copper plating seems pretty thick, but it's definitely a steel/iron jacket.

I'll stop shooting this stuff. The barrel still shoots nice and i'd like it to do so as long as possible.

 

[tucaz]

Thanks for the replys so far!

I investigated further - and i was wrong. It's indeed not steel cored. It's lead cored with a copper plated(?) soft steel jacket. My bad, i based my assumption on taking a file to the bullet. The copper plating seems pretty thick, but it's definitely a steel/iron jacket.

I'll stop shooting this stuff. The barrel still shoots nice and i'd like it to do so as long as possible.

not sure you have to stop using it. how much do you have?

i use to shoot wolf 223 steel jacketed thru a LWRC 18" DMR barrel, maybe 1000 rounds one year and it hasnt degraded the accuracy. i use that upper as a DMR rifle now and it has close to 10,000 rounds on it. still shoots 1-1.5MOA with razor core.

a slower rate of fire will help too.

 

[Bantam1]

This was a decent article of testing steel case/bimetal ammo through an AR vs. Federal

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

 

[bfoosh006]

Thanks for the replys so far!

I investigated further - and i was wrong. It's indeed not steel cored. It's lead cored with a copper plated(?) soft steel jacket. My bad, i based my assumption on taking a file to the bullet. The copper plating seems pretty thick, but it's definitely a steel/iron jacket.

I'll stop shooting this stuff. The barrel still shoots nice and i'd like it to do so as long as possible.

Did you ever put a magnet to the bullet ? Just curious.

Seems pretty odd that GECO / RUAG still produces any .223 / 5.56 with steel in the bullet.

 

[M4orturnate]

Thanks for the replys so far!

I investigated further - and i was wrong. It's indeed not steel cored. It's lead cored with a copper plated(?) soft steel jacket. My bad, i based my assumption on taking a file to the bullet. The copper plating seems pretty thick, but it's definitely a steel/iron jacket.

I'll stop shooting this stuff. The barrel still shoots nice and i'd like it to do so as long as possible.

That wont wear out any faster then standard jacketed ammo

 

[S197]

I have one ammo that's relatively cheap and gives really tight groups on paper... Geco 63gr FMJ "Target", comes on 10rnd plastic stripper clips. Now what worries me a bit is the fact it's steel core with a copper jacket. What's the hive mind's opinion on steel cored .223?

Rifle in question is a HK MR223 with chrome lined barrel. I don't want to destroy this by being "cheap" with my ammo. But it's the best ammo i found so far, so if there's nothing to worry about that would be sweet. But i lack the long term experience....

Any thoughts? Thank you!

How much per round? Also you have a CL/CHF barrel, a thousand rounds of this ammo wont hurt. But if you don’t want it, I’ll pay for shipping!

 

[22lfb]

Did you ever put a magnet to the bullet ? Just curious.

Seems pretty odd that GECO / RUAG still produces any .223 / 5.56 with steel in the bullet.

Yes, it's an iron/steel jacket. From what i gathered by doing some google research, this Geco 63gr ammo is basically identical to swiss GP90 (or Gw Pat 90) which was the swiss variation of the 5.56 NATO. With a 63gr bullet.

Apparently this ammo was issued with a nickel plated iron jacket until '97. And from then on with a tombak plated iron jacket. The nickel plated ammo apparently is known to cause premature wear (and swiss Stgw90 barrels had a ""coating"" to make use of this nickel plated ammo) But it's always lead core. This also explains the stripper clips.

And i bet you that the Geco ammo is just rebranded swiss surplus GP90. Geco is part of RUAG Ammotec so this would make a lot of sense. But i don't know for sure, it's just an educated guess.

How much per round? Also you have a CL/CHF barrel, a thousand rounds of this ammo wont hurt. But if you don’t want it, I’ll pay for shipping!

it's about 60 cent per round. That's euro cent. And i'd need an export permit to ship across the atlantic.

 

[bfoosh006]

Yes, it's an iron/steel jacket. From what i gathered by doing some google research, this Geco 63gr ammo is basically identical to swiss GP90 (or Gw Pat 90) which was the swiss variation of the 5.56 NATO. With a 63gr bullet.

Apparently this ammo was issued with a nickel plated iron jacket until '97. And from then on with a tombak plated iron jacket. The nickel plated ammo apparently is known to cause premature wear (and swiss Stgw90 barrels had a ""coating"" to make use of this nickel plated ammo) But it's always lead core. This also explains the stripper clips.

And i bet you that the Geco ammo is just rebranded swiss surplus GP90. Geco is part of RUAG Ammotec so this would make a lot of sense. But i don't know for sure, it's just an educated guess.



it's about 60 cent per round. That's euro cent. And i'd need an export permit to ship across the atlantic.

It wouldn't surprise me if it is very similar to the RUAG Swiss P 63gr load. Is your 63gr bullet a boattail ?

FWIW... GECO / RUAG even loaded some 55gr FMJ for Black Hills ammo, way back in an earlier ammo shortage.
Same packaging, same plastic stripper clips, GECO headstamp... but with a different powder charge weight and a different propellant in the Black Hills load.
I still have a 50cal can of it.

Note the "Made for Black Hills Ammunition By RUAG"

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Steel jacket will wear out a CL barrel in 15K rds or so. There have been lots of test with this. One on Accurate Shooter where they took 2 rifles and shot them till they wore out. The Steel Wolf ammo made to about 15K. The copper bullets were still shooting at 36K if I remember right.

This is not necessarily true. It depends on firing schedule, type of barrel and how good/thick the chrome bore is, running a can or not,ect.

A quality CL rifle barrel should get 20-25 shooting steel. You will have a bunch of small parts breakage/failures and probably a broken bolt by the time the barrel wears out. Steel cased ammo typically is lower pressure which offsets the bullet construction accelerated wear.

Do the math and you can buy a few extra KAC SR15s or Super Duties for what you will save in ammo costs over the life of the barrel.

The biggest issue with steel is case head separation. Its great for training as it saves a ton of money over brass, but you need to be aware. Certain guns platforms and calibers are more prone to this than others (I dont shoot steel cased 308 for this reason). You want to make sure you have a stuck shell extractor (like $15 from amazon/brownells) to be able to clear the malfunction when you get a stuck case, most likely due to a CHS.

Steel for practice, Brass for Humans is a good mantra to live by.

 

[msgriff]

Seems like some here are conflating steel case ammo with bi-metal jacketed bullets.

 

[tomme boy]

Most all steel cased ammo is a bi-metal bullet. Heck, LC used a bi-metal bullet in M80 ammo up to a few years ago. Some of the recent ones I have are copper jacketed not copper washed steel.