Let me start by saying, this is not a "I don't like" or "I do like" Leupold thread. So please stay on topic. The purpose of this thread is to clarify and determine what we need to know in regards to buying used Leupold Mark IV optics. What prompted me to start this inquiry is that I've been trying to sell my own Mark IV and have gotten a lot of feedback regarding its authenticity, both positive and negative.
It seems to me that it would be useful to clarify what exactly is going on with these scopes in regards to the fakes coming out of China and Leupold's warning. For one reason, we ought to inform each other about fakes to protect ourselves and those companies who make us products we depend on. For two it is hurting their resale value and reputation.
So I'll begin with the text from Leupold's website in regards to the fakes:
<span style="font-style: italic">In general, most of the scopes appear to originate from Hong Kong (People’s Republic of China), and have “Leupold Mark 4” laser engraved on the bottom of the turret in a silver etch, while the black ring on the objective is etched in white and does not include the name “Leupold”. The scopes also do not bear the Leupold medallion, a mark all Leupold scopes will always possess. An authentic Mark 4 riflescope will always be engraved black on black and have the name “Leupold” engraved on the black ring.</span>
The way I am reading this is:
<span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span> the scope has silver etching on the bottom of the turret
<span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> the black ring on the objective is etched in white and does not include the name "Leupold"
<span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> the scopes do not bear the Leupold Medallion
<span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> the scopes are not engraved black on black
<span style="font-weight: bold">THEN</span> it is most likely a fake produced in Hong Kong
This warning was written to say, "If all of these attributes are found on a scope then it is most likely not a genuine Leupold." That's how I'm reading it.
Exhibit one. The scope I'm trying to sell:
Well, it does meet the first criterion for being a fake: it has white/silver etching on the bottom very similar to the etching shown on Leupold's website:
Notice that the bottom of the turret on mine is not actually a circle while the fake they have displayed is. But, moving on to the next criterion.
Does mine have white etching on the black ring of the objective? No.
Leupold's example of a known fake:
Next, does mine bear the Leupold medallion? No.
Leupold's example of a known fake:
Is mine engraved "black on black"? No. We can see from my first picture that it is engraved in white/silver on the bottom of the turret.
So the question is, is my scope real or fake? Well, on first glance it would appear my scope has 3 of the 4 markers for being a fake:
1. It has white/silver etching on the bottom of the turret
2. It does not bear the Leupold medallion
3. It is not engraved black on black
The only marker it does not have is the white etching on the ring of the objective.
Would you buy it based on this information? If you read Leupold's warning as I have, it would still not meet the criteria for being a fake. However, 3 out of 4 seems like too much of a risk until we examine it further.
Let's look at some other criteria individually.
From Leupold's warning:
<span style="font-style: italic">The scopes also do not bear the Leupold medallion, a mark all Leupold scopes will always possess.</span>
Show me an example of a Mark IV fixed 10 that has this medallion. From Leupold's own website, here is the pic of a fixed 10:
See any medallion which "all Leupold scopes always possess"? No. Therefore, either not all Leupold scopes have the medallion OR Leupold is using a picture of a fake.
From Leupold's warning:
<span style="font-style: italic">authentic Mark 4 riflescope will always be engraved black on black</span>
Here's a pic of the bottom turret on a 3.5-10 I still have the receipt for. It was purchased at the Scottsdale Gun Club in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Clearly it is not etched "black on black". So either the Scottsdale Gun Club is selling fake Leupolds OR Leupold's warning cannot be 100% accurate unless you read it as I have.
In addition to the photographic evidence I have placed several calls to Leupold to discuss this. I was told that the main criteria they use to determine a fake is the serial number, which is not even one the criteria used in the warning.
To sum up my conclusion:
The Leupold warning is meant to be read as, "If <span style="text-decoration: underline">all </span>of these attributes are found on a scope then it is most likely not a genuine Leupold." If you read it otherwise, it contradicts itself and can't be supported by photographic evidence.
I hope this serves as both clarification of the warning and as a starting point for further discussion of evidence. Leupold Mark IV scopes have always served me well, as they have many others, and the many misinterpretations of the warning are hurting the reputation of these optics as well as the resale value for those of us selling or trading them.
It seems to me that it would be useful to clarify what exactly is going on with these scopes in regards to the fakes coming out of China and Leupold's warning. For one reason, we ought to inform each other about fakes to protect ourselves and those companies who make us products we depend on. For two it is hurting their resale value and reputation.
So I'll begin with the text from Leupold's website in regards to the fakes:
<span style="font-style: italic">In general, most of the scopes appear to originate from Hong Kong (People’s Republic of China), and have “Leupold Mark 4” laser engraved on the bottom of the turret in a silver etch, while the black ring on the objective is etched in white and does not include the name “Leupold”. The scopes also do not bear the Leupold medallion, a mark all Leupold scopes will always possess. An authentic Mark 4 riflescope will always be engraved black on black and have the name “Leupold” engraved on the black ring.</span>
The way I am reading this is:
<span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span> the scope has silver etching on the bottom of the turret
<span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> the black ring on the objective is etched in white and does not include the name "Leupold"
<span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> the scopes do not bear the Leupold Medallion
<span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> the scopes are not engraved black on black
<span style="font-weight: bold">THEN</span> it is most likely a fake produced in Hong Kong
This warning was written to say, "If all of these attributes are found on a scope then it is most likely not a genuine Leupold." That's how I'm reading it.
Exhibit one. The scope I'm trying to sell:
Well, it does meet the first criterion for being a fake: it has white/silver etching on the bottom very similar to the etching shown on Leupold's website:
Notice that the bottom of the turret on mine is not actually a circle while the fake they have displayed is. But, moving on to the next criterion.
Does mine have white etching on the black ring of the objective? No.
Leupold's example of a known fake:
Next, does mine bear the Leupold medallion? No.
Leupold's example of a known fake:
Is mine engraved "black on black"? No. We can see from my first picture that it is engraved in white/silver on the bottom of the turret.
So the question is, is my scope real or fake? Well, on first glance it would appear my scope has 3 of the 4 markers for being a fake:
1. It has white/silver etching on the bottom of the turret
2. It does not bear the Leupold medallion
3. It is not engraved black on black
The only marker it does not have is the white etching on the ring of the objective.
Would you buy it based on this information? If you read Leupold's warning as I have, it would still not meet the criteria for being a fake. However, 3 out of 4 seems like too much of a risk until we examine it further.
Let's look at some other criteria individually.
From Leupold's warning:
<span style="font-style: italic">The scopes also do not bear the Leupold medallion, a mark all Leupold scopes will always possess.</span>
Show me an example of a Mark IV fixed 10 that has this medallion. From Leupold's own website, here is the pic of a fixed 10:
See any medallion which "all Leupold scopes always possess"? No. Therefore, either not all Leupold scopes have the medallion OR Leupold is using a picture of a fake.
From Leupold's warning:
<span style="font-style: italic">authentic Mark 4 riflescope will always be engraved black on black</span>
Here's a pic of the bottom turret on a 3.5-10 I still have the receipt for. It was purchased at the Scottsdale Gun Club in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Clearly it is not etched "black on black". So either the Scottsdale Gun Club is selling fake Leupolds OR Leupold's warning cannot be 100% accurate unless you read it as I have.
In addition to the photographic evidence I have placed several calls to Leupold to discuss this. I was told that the main criteria they use to determine a fake is the serial number, which is not even one the criteria used in the warning.
To sum up my conclusion:
The Leupold warning is meant to be read as, "If <span style="text-decoration: underline">all </span>of these attributes are found on a scope then it is most likely not a genuine Leupold." If you read it otherwise, it contradicts itself and can't be supported by photographic evidence.
I hope this serves as both clarification of the warning and as a starting point for further discussion of evidence. Leupold Mark IV scopes have always served me well, as they have many others, and the many misinterpretations of the warning are hurting the reputation of these optics as well as the resale value for those of us selling or trading them.
