Cause swapping barrels with a nut is a PITA. Shouldered barrels are cleaner and easier to deal with and its not rocket science so why not.
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Coup De Grace vs Nucleus or Origin
- Thread starter pik3ee
- Start date
Cause swapping barrels with a nut is a PITA. Shouldered barrels are cleaner and easier to deal with and its not rocket science so why not.
Absolute bullshit. You have a barrel, wrench, go gauge/nogo gauge, barrel vise, and action. 2 minutes. 55ftlbs vs 80ftbls of a shouldered prefit even.
No proprietary internal action wrenches.
And the nut, you left that part out. A part I no longer want to deal with hence the reason I buy actions with consistent head space.
Just add weights to your chassis. Its just as good...
I get that, I do. I already have multiple barrels for the origin action, I personally don’t like the barrel nut because then I have to re set headspace each time i swap barrels, or major POI shift when I put a barrel back on. Plus when a product is advertised as something, I expect it to live up to that.
Also, the action to me was very not smooth. I couldn’t get over it. It bugged me a lot.
I haven’t done it so I can’t say, but swapping my origin barrel 7 times gave me no more than a .1 shift. Not sure if that’s as repeatable with a barrel nut, but I don’t want to be taking go gauges around with me when I swap barrels either. I’m not saying it’s not easy, but it absolutely isn’t as easy as swapping shouldered barrels.
Torque it to 150lb/ft and I bet that .1 gets eaten up in the noise of your load. I take my barrels off to clean them, and they have never not repeated zero.
That’s a shame. Mine is slick as owl shit. I got a few more enroute with a proof shouldered prefit. I’ll report back.
That’s a ton of torque! Aero told me 80, I do 80 on my origin. 150 seems extremely excessive to me. That’s gotta be a bigger to break loose. I already have to get a breaker bar on mine.
Hopefully mine was an anomaly. It made me physically bummed out when I started running it. Binding, could feel it interfering with the action. Best way I can describe it is a gritty trigger. Side by side with my origin they weren’t even a comparison. In fact I went to the sporting goods store and every action felt better, including a ruger American, Thompson center compass, and of course tikka(mine included). Ymmv
I don’t think anyone has said they are doing savage style with a nut and the comical breach. I bet all the CDG prefits will be shouldered. With the conical breach.
It really isn't any torque at all for the size of connection. It's literally the minimum.
I apologize for being so crass, it’s just that “Righty tighty, lefty loosey” is not hard.
No worries I didn't think you were. And IF you were no big deal. This is still the internet and I have thick skin.
It’s not hard, but it is annoying… I like my origin except the pinned recoil lug because dropping it is annoying, not hard. Same thing with barrel nuts. To me, they’re annoying, especially when you can get a shouldered prefit for practically the same price.
Speaking of nuts. Ran into this today installing a new factory take off Savage barrel on a Nucleus:
The Savage nut wasn't long enough to cover the threads when head space was set. I see why Aero went with the longer barrel nut for the "Savage small shank" pattern. Just FYI.
Some thread conditioning porn: I forgot to take a before pic, but the threads were a hot F'N mess. Go figure, Savage quality.
A right daggum Franken gun! Savage, ARC, Aero, and MDT parts. "It's Alive!
Slinging 137gr Hammer Hunters at 3150fps will make it an absolute death ray! (.308 Winchestershire)
The Savage nut wasn't long enough to cover the threads when head space was set. I see why Aero went with the longer barrel nut for the "Savage small shank" pattern. Just FYI.
Some thread conditioning porn: I forgot to take a before pic, but the threads were a hot F'N mess. Go figure, Savage quality.
A right daggum Franken gun! Savage, ARC, Aero, and MDT parts. "It's Alive!
Slinging 137gr Hammer Hunters at 3150fps will make it an absolute death ray! (.308 Winchestershire)
I did a test on a barrel I have. I carefully used red Loctite on the nut side when I set my headspace on my Nucleus. I later pulled it off and reinstalled it using a barrel vice and action wrench as if it was a shouldered barrel. I marked the nut and barrel and seen no movement of the nut. It head spaced like it should have.
I pulled that barrel and to remove the nut I used CRC in the red can, not the green non-flourinated stuff, it melted the Loctite with little fan fare. So if you swap barrels like I was doing it works well.
That just sounds like a shouldered barrel with extra steps.
That sounds to me like a ugly shouldered barrel that I get to set head space for exactly how I want it.
A barrel nut will allow for more consistent setting of headspace.
All these folks that blather on about "but muh tolerances!!!".
A tolerance is an acceptable deviation from the spec'd nominal dimensions, that deviation is set by the manufacterer.
A barrel, equipped with a barrel nut will allow you to compensate for those deviations from nominal.
What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal)of the manufactured action? What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal) of the shouldered prefit? While you most likely won't run into excessive headspace, tolerance stacking says SOME will have too much headspace for maximum accuracy potential.
The way around that?
Either have a gunsmith install and properly headspace the barrel, or use a barrel nut system, which (if chambered correctly) eliminates the issue.
All these folks that blather on about "but muh tolerances!!!".
A tolerance is an acceptable deviation from the spec'd nominal dimensions, that deviation is set by the manufacterer.
A barrel, equipped with a barrel nut will allow you to compensate for those deviations from nominal.
What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal)of the manufactured action? What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal) of the shouldered prefit? While you most likely won't run into excessive headspace, tolerance stacking says SOME will have too much headspace for maximum accuracy potential.
The way around that?
Either have a gunsmith install and properly headspace the barrel, or use a barrel nut system, which (if chambered correctly) eliminates the issue.
A barrel nut will allow for more consistent setting of headspace. False. Really, How so?
All these folks that blather on about "but muh tolerances!!!".
A tolerance is an acceptable deviation from the spec'd nominal dimensions, that deviation is set by the manufacterer. True.
A barrel, equipped with a barrel nut will allow you to compensate for those deviations from nominal. So? Here you are agreeing with my first statement
What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal)of the manufactured action? What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal) of the shouldered prefit? Most are +/-.0005 - +/- .001" Prove it with evidence
While you most likely won't run into excessive headspace, tolerance stacking says SOME will have too much headspace for maximum accuracy potential. Prove it with evidence. Why? the fact that you have, in your previous statment admitted there are tolerances in play, is proof enough that some headspace, while not excessive, will be more than most that are interested in accuracy, would find desireable.
The way around that? Not needed. For you, maybe.
Either have a gunsmith install and properly headspace the barrel, or use a barrel nut system, which (if chambered correctly) eliminates the issue. No need for either in the current era of manufacturing. Because no one has ever shipped a product that is on the edge of specs.
All these folks that blather on about "but muh tolerances!!!".
A tolerance is an acceptable deviation from the spec'd nominal dimensions, that deviation is set by the manufacterer. True.
A barrel, equipped with a barrel nut will allow you to compensate for those deviations from nominal. So? Here you are agreeing with my first statement
What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal)of the manufactured action? What is the tolerance (deviation from nominal) of the shouldered prefit? Most are +/-.0005 - +/- .001" Prove it with evidence
While you most likely won't run into excessive headspace, tolerance stacking says SOME will have too much headspace for maximum accuracy potential. Prove it with evidence. Why? the fact that you have, in your previous statment admitted there are tolerances in play, is proof enough that some headspace, while not excessive, will be more than most that are interested in accuracy, would find desireable.
The way around that? Not needed. For you, maybe.
Either have a gunsmith install and properly headspace the barrel, or use a barrel nut system, which (if chambered correctly) eliminates the issue. No need for either in the current era of manufacturing. Because no one has ever shipped a product that is on the edge of specs.
I think the shouldered prefit camp just like the aesthetics of the style. That is just fine. Our money, our preference to build a gun as we like. Like women will buy uncomfortable shoes, but the look great in style.
all things being equal
if the shooter only shoots hand loads, none of this matters as long if its within sammi, magazine OAL, action design safety specs
if you only shoot factory ammo, potential accuracy may not be seen
I tell ya what guys, if I didn't have bad luck I would have no luck at all! 
Murphy is pretty hard on me. So I can imagine my shouldered prefit experiences would end up a headache. I have a Bartlein prefit to put on a SOLUS action that arrives in a few days. Because I like to Fool around and find out!
Poor @Tremor3Guy is the example I fear.
Murphy is pretty hard on me. So I can imagine my shouldered prefit experiences would end up a headache. I have a Bartlein prefit to put on a SOLUS action that arrives in a few days. Because I like to Fool around and find out! Poor @Tremor3Guy is the example I fear.
Its not aesthetics for me, its about balance and simplicity. Puts more mass at the action. With a shoulder there is literally zero to mess with, you dont set shit and the only way to mess up the install is if you just... dont install it.
Again, provided your action is good enough to accept a shouldered prefit and your smith isnt shit.
Also, buying a good barrel nut barrel costs as much as a good shouldered barrel so the only actual cost savings are when you buy a lesser quality blank to start with in the first place. Cheap shit costs less than good shit.
I am not an 1/4 MOA all day like some self proclaimed shooters. When I’m behind the trigger I can’t tell if a barrel is shouldered or nutted. I like the looks of a shouldered barrel better and they are slightly easier to install, but I don’t believe one makes me shoot better. Prefits need to be checked for proper head space just like a nut system. Tolerances can stack and mistakes can happen.
Like anything else proper QC/QA hides a lot of mistakes upon assembly
American Rifle Company, $795 Nucleus Gen 1.1 and Gen 2.0 Bolt Actions
Scroll down to read about the $795 Nucleus Gen 1.1 Customers with pending orders can choose from either the $795 Gen 1.1 or the $1000 Gen 2.0 American Rifle Company Nucleus® Gen 2.0 American Rifle Company is proud to introduce the Nucleus Gen 2.0 bolt action. We decided to update the Nucleus...
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as you know it's not just the OEM action mfg, it's also the smith/prefit company as wellARC is running +/-.002" across all their actions. Show me you can shoot the difference between a gun that's -.002" and one that's +.002".American Rifle Company, $795 Nucleus Gen 1.1 and Gen 2.0 Bolt Actions
Scroll down to read about the $795 Nucleus Gen 1.1 Customers with pending orders can choose from either the $795 Gen 1.1 or the $1000 Gen 2.0 American Rifle Company Nucleus® Gen 2.0 American Rifle Company is proud to introduce the Nucleus Gen 2.0 bolt action. We decided to update the Nucleus...
if they are a shit mess no matter how good the action is, all bets are off
add to it, i was just speaking to a VERY-VERY well-known action MFG and they suggested taking 10 actions and measuring for headspace specs...WTF
you need 2 to tango
I have done this A LOT and never had a nut move except initially. If they are going to move they will do it the first time you remove the barrel. After that, I have 223 barrels that have been moved dozens of times with no issue. I use heat to remove the nuts when the barrel is shot out and then spin the nut on and off until it goes easily before moving it to the new barrel. I will have to try the crc in the future.
For short to mid range hunting barrels I really like Criterion Savage prefits. I also run them for my 223 practice barrels. They shoot really well most of the time. I have never had one that wouldn't shoot 3/4 moa at distance with a little load work and good components. (They have all shot .5" average for 5 shots at 100 yards with their preferred load.)
For match barrels, or hunting guns I want to shoot past 500 yards, I prefer cut rifled barrels done by a really good smith. Since I'm already paying for good stuff, I typically have these barrels shouldered unless I want to be able to run them on a savage action. A bartlein or other cut barrel, or even a good lapped button rifled barrel, chambered by my smith will usually shoot just about any load with high end brass and Berger bullets into sub half minute for 5 shots.
It's tough to beat the value of NSS prefits for $300. It was especially tough when Criterion put 50% off certs on tons of prize tables, and I was paying $185 for them. I am super appreciative that they did that. My wife, kids, and I have several barrels from those deals that shoot awesome for their use case.
I truly hope you have better luck than I.I tell ya what guys, if I didn't have bad luck I would have no luck at all!
Poor @Tremor3Guy is the example I fear.
Someone from a well know PRS shop sent out an assembled rifle and the head space was WAY off. It happens, not often, but it can happen. It’s always best to have a go/ no go gauge when installing a barrel, pre fit or nut system.
Absolutely! My barrels headspaced perfectly on my origin action. We measured a .0015” difference between origin and Solus. Aero inspected and found it .0002” from nominal. So everything was made to spec, I believe the Aero was built around the proof prefit and not the origin action headspace dimensions. So I think it means some prefit barrels won’t headspace correctly, even if they do on an origin action.
This was the exact reason I had a smith install the barrel and check headspace, gotta check those things with prefits!
Same smith also fixes prefits for tikkas all the time as he’s seen as much as .011” difference action to action.
I guess it all depends on what each persons accepts as correct headspace. For me, it’s go gauge and no go gauge.
I will say Aero has stood by their product 100%. I wasn’t 100% happy and they tried multiple ways to make it right and eventually offered a refund. Their customer service has been absolutely top notch!
I like the fact I can have 308 WIN brass that doesn't stretch .012" upon first firing. I got my headspace on my Nucleus set go/no-go with only .004" stretch. Bumping the shoulders .002" from fired is much easier to hit target bump. With my comparator factory Lapua and FGMM come with shoulders t 1.610" (My gauge sits low on the shoulder) fired case at 1.614 free bolt closure. 1.615 drags on the bolt closure a bit. 1.616 is a no-go.
Previous 308 guns, mostly semi autos, would measure with the same comparator 1.621 fired. Trying to maintain .001" shoulder bump was a bear. With annealed cases too.
Previous 308 guns, mostly semi autos, would measure with the same comparator 1.621 fired. Trying to maintain .001" shoulder bump was a bear. With annealed cases too.
If that's the case, that's in important distinction that should be advertised better.
It's possible Aero stopped sending SOLUS actions. I had some on order since Jan 30 and just the stock is being sent...
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