Gunsmithing Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

[okrebel92]

I have a remmy SPS-T bolt that has a crack next to the extractor, and im wondering how soon should I replace it. Im still shooting sub-MOA groups at 100 and 500 yards with it so if it doesn't HAVE to be replaced then im not going to. Also, if it does, what exactly goes into getting one replaced? Can I just buy one from PT&G and slide it in and be gtg?

My groups I shot the other day with the cracked bolt.. I thought a cracked bolt effects accuracy?
(all shot at 100 yards)

 

[LRI]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Your gun develops somewheres around 40-60 thousand copper units of pressure depending upon the cartridge its chambered for.

The part that keeps all this pressure from melting your face off has a crack in it. More of a tear than a crack, but a surface inclusion no less. One that can be prone to growing over time and in the event of a violent case rupture will surely be turned into plasma as it ejects from the breech at light speed. Where it goes from their is anyone's guess. Hopefully not your face, but all bets are off at that point.

This nutz n bolts synopsis hopefully suggests something to you.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

One of the "three rings of steel" is missing.

 

[damoncali]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Just curious- How did that happen?

(Yes, I'd replace it. That's not an area of the bolt you want to mess with.).

 

[USMARINE1108]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

It's already been covered so I won't harp on it but........ replace the freaking bolt and don't shoot it until you do.

How did it crack? Did you do it? Did it just happen? If it is a factory defect Remington should replace it for you.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

I would send it to Remington.

 

[trigger time]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/products/parts/remington.htm

 

[stefan73]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/products/parts/remington.htm </div></div>

Or upgrade.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One of the "three rings of steel" is missing.</div></div>





tis lost on most ...from north of the red river.....

 

[chipdog4]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*


I had a bulge in that spot with that same rifle. I had just bought it (brand new) and put 40 rounds through it and noticed it.
Shipped it back to Remington and they sent it back with a fucking crack there.

My god I was livid.

They replaced the bolt the next trip.


If the rifle's out of warrenty, send it anywhere else but Remington.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okrebel92</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a remmy SPS-T bolt that has a crack next to the extractor, and im wondering how soon should I replace it. Im still shooting sub-MOA groups at 100 and 500 yards with it so if it doesn't HAVE to be replaced then im not going to. Also, if it does, what exactly goes into getting one replaced? Can I just buy one from PT&G and slide it in and be gtg?

My groups I shot the other day with the cracked bolt.. I thought a cracked bolt effects accuracy?
(all shot at 100 yards)

</div></div>

GOOD GOD MAN, REPLACE IT NOW!!
LG

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Do you replace the bolt??? Do you value your face?

 

[cal50]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Replace it or up your health insurance policy.

It sucks but an easy fix. Fixing your face is harder.

 

[dvdt]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Geez man. Replace that bolt and don't shoot it again until it is checked out.

btw - this is a great example of why you need at least 2 rifles. Just in case that helps you justify it.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Ah shit some of you guys are having a girly man fit over a lil flippin crack. Honestly all that lip/portion does is retain the extractor, has really nothing to do with safety, honestly!!!!! As long as it still extracts drive the sum bitch until it quits like most of you do your wheels!

There ya got yer second opinion! I just wanted to be on a different side then those who really have no idea but need a post! Ya, call me an a**hole.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

OK, I will.

You have no clue(nor do ANY of us, BTW)if that crack is working it's way back into the lugs and at the very least shows a heat-treat issue. Remember those bolts lugs(bolt head)are brazed to the bolt shaft. It's a 3 piece bolt w/handle in place.
Cheers,
LG

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

that is not a "crack" it is a "tear" and will not effect the safety of the rifle at all. if you had a sako or m16 type extractor installed they would bore that portion of the bolt nose off and shim it anyway. i would run it until the extractor fails and send it in for a sako or m16 or replace the bolt with a kiff. if you want to sell the "extremely dangerous" bolt for a song, i will buy it and install an extractor in it. been wanting to build a bolt action 30-30 anyway.

chuck

 

[longshooter]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

That portion of the bolt nose is not the section that would be milled off for a Sako. That portion would be about 180 deg away.

The damaged part actually does have a purpose. It is the first ring in the Remington three rings of steel that protect the operator from blowback in the event of a case failure.

I have a Sako I wanna do, soon. My riveted extractor is broken.

 

[damoncali]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Cracks, even if they appear to be in a relatively harmless place, are not a good thing in a a repetitively, highly stressed part like the area in front of the bolt lugs. 10,000 pounds of bolt thrust is a nice round number to get a feel for what you're playing with.

Every time you fire the rifle, the crack may open and close just a little. Each time it does that, it might grow. If this happens, you will eventually have a catastrophic failure. It might be in 100,000 rounds, it might be in 10. Just because you can fire it safely once does not mean that you can do it over and over again. I'm not saying it will fail, but unless you do some heavy duty inspection (that would cost far more than a new bolt), you can't say it won't.

So unless your life literally depends on firing that weapon, the smart thing to do is to get a new bolt.

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

If it is still under warranty, then you should insist Remington replace it pronto.

If you're not in the warranty period, i'd pay a competent smith to replace it with a PTG bolt. Have them TIG the handle on or get one of the one-piece bolts that they are now making.

I would not continue to shoot it unless you want to wear it like body jewelry.

BTW- A sako extractor will not fix this, as was said it is on the wrong side of the bolt.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Man a couple of you gents don't have much of a sense of humor nor appreciate a 'devil's advocate' sort of position!!!! Boltripper usually gets away with it

I realize that I have less experience than many of you but please don't give up on me! I'll geter right next time. From some of the things I have read here any further explanation is not needed.

Oh yea, get a new fucking bolt!!!!!!!!What are you thinkin???

There, now I am in line.

 

[okrebel92]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Ok guys, thanks for the conformation on the new bolt. I thought Whirlwind's sarcasm was top notch lol. Looks like I'll be calling PT&G tomorrow... Sadly, I dont know of any competent gunsmiths in my area, and there is no way in hell I'm gonna try to TIG this myself. Anyone know any good gunsmiths in the Tulsa area that doesn't have a 3 week turn around like Oklahoma police supply?!?

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

the entire bolt nose can be bored out and a smaller bushing is epoxied or soldered back in to the bolt face diameter that is desired. this has absolutely nothing to do with where the actual extractor is milled into the bolt. i made an offer on the bolt and would not be in the least afraid to use it. go to montourcountyrifles.com and i believe there is an explanation of this process there. i have a bolt that has a very similiar tear in the same place from a heavy charge that stuck a piece of brass to the bolt. while prying it out, the remington extractor goove was torn. still shooting it today but i guess i should throw it away. by the way, the "three rings of steel" would be the outside diameter of the bolt nose, the bolt nose recess cut into the barrel, and the receiver itself. has NOTHING to do with the portion of the bolt facing the chamber.

PS: DCW1284's picture shows exactly what i am talking about. if you will notice the bolt on the left no longer has the remington extractor groove in it. this is because the bolt nose was shimmed prior to the installation of the extractor. look closely at the bolt nose where the tear is on the OP's bolt. you can see the line where the shim and original metal meet.

chuck

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Better hope the Feds dont jump in this post and see you shooting coins!

 

[okrebel92]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Better hope the Feds dont jump in this post and see you shooting coins! </div></div>

Well that would just top my day off, I got pulled over for doing a 67 in a 65 earlier!!!

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the entire bolt nose can be bored out and a smaller bushing is epoxied or soldered back in to the bolt face diameter that is desired. this has absolutely nothing to do with where the actual extractor is milled into the bolt. i made an offer on the bolt and would not be in the least afraid to use it. go to montourcountyrifles.com and i believe there is an explanation of this process there. i have a bolt that has a very similiar tear in the same place from a heavy charge that stuck a piece of brass to the bolt. while prying it out, the remington extractor goove was torn. still shooting it today but i guess i should throw it away. by the way, the "three rings of steel" would be the outside diameter of the bolt nose, the bolt nose recess cut into the barrel, and the receiver itself. has NOTHING to do with the portion of the bolt facing the chamber.

PS: DCW1284's picture shows exactly what i am talking about. if you will notice the bolt on the left no longer has the remington extractor groove in it. this is because the bolt nose was shimmed prior to the installation of the extractor. look closely at the bolt nose where the tear is on the OP's bolt. you can see the line where the shim and original metal meet.

chuck </div></div>

Thanks for the explanation. I had near exactly the same thing typed out and then thought "the hell with it" and deleted it. Too many that know waaaayyyyy more than you and me here to argue with! You forgot to add that the extractor itself is actually 1/2 of the 4th ring.lol

 

[Maxpower]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I will.

You have no clue(nor do ANY of us, BTW)if that crack is working it's way back into the lugs and at the very least shows a heat-treat issue. Remember <span style="font-weight: bold">those bolts lugs(bolt head)are brazed to the bolt shaft. It's a 3 piece bolt </span>w/handle in place.
Cheers,
LG </div></div>

Uhhh...No, they are not. The shaft and the lugs are one piece machined from the same piece of steel.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Your source is.......
Cheers,
LG

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Uuuuhhhh, I am thinking they are perhaps silver brazed or such and unless they have changed recently(not) they are 3pc bolts,lugs being seperate. Look on a stainless bolt, where they are blued is the actual seam. You can't run stainless on stainless because of galling so the bolt head of a stainless reciever is CM unless I am on a different planet????

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

WRONG.......different S/S alloys CAN/DO run well with each other. The aircraft building folks have been doing this for 60+ yrs,

Cheers,
LGH

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Well, ok, guess I shoulda said Remington doesn't run stainless on stainless for their bolts. Comeon give me a break dammit with all your lil technicalities....just cause I didn't say it clearly doesn't mean it ain't so. Yer makin this harder than it has to be!!!!lol

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Then you need to look up the definition to the word "COMNMUNICATION"

I have enought trouble with my own thoughts.....Now you want us to second guess YOURS

Cheers,
LG

 

[Jkob]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Maybe I missed it but if it is a short action bolt, I have some original bolt bodies available at lest cost than the PTG ones. If you are interested, email me.

Jim Kobe
[email protected]

 

[longshooter]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

It is not necessary to "bore the entire bolt nose", or "shim" (?) it, as has been said, to install a Sako. But, it can be done for cosmetics.

But when you install a Sako, the "three rings of steel" has just been compromised.

 

[okrebel92]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gundoktr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe I missed it but if it is a short action bolt, I have some original bolt bodies available at lest cost than the PTG ones. If you are interested, email me.

Jim Kobe
[email protected] </div></div>

E-mail sent.

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Let me clarify, the TIG I was referring to was to have the handle TIG welded to the bolt while you have it at the smith. Not an essential, but it might save you from headaches later. It has nothing to do with the crack, which could be bushed as has been said, but if it were me i'd just sell it to the guy who insists it's fine and put a one-piece PTG in my action, lol.

Also, Hooper does a screw mod that is an alternative to the TIG welding if you prefer. Either way, you need to address the nose first and you might as well do the other stuff at the same time.


PS- SD is correct about remmy bolts, the heads are separately attached as are the handles. 3 pieces.

Dave Kiff of PTG is making "drop in" bolts for the m24, so it's possible he could make you a "drop in" as well, then all you'd need is to have the headspace checked (and reset if it is too far out).

I don't know about Tulsa, but there are a myriad of good smiths on this board who could potentially do it for you. Some have longer wait times than other, call them and ask. You can mail your barreled action directly to a smith for repair without FFL involvement, and it will come right back to you the same way.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

New bolt...............$100
New Face...............$100,000
asking a completely ridiculous questions about personal safety involving controlled explosions with pressure spikes between 50,000 and 70,000 PSI that occur within 6 inches of your face....

Priceless

 

[native]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

..

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

you people spend big money to have bolt handles welded and screwed on because they just fall off in your hand but you believe that the actual lugs are also soldered on. is there no common sense left in the world? the bolt body may be three pieces being the handle and front and rear halves, but i can assure you the lugs themselves are not brazed, soldered, or welded on. evidently this isnt that big of a deal to the OP since i made a decent offer on a "ruined" bolt with no response.

chuck

 

[cz777]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

your face is ugly but its only face you have ! ouch in the works the weakness of poor design and short cuts showing its face again !!

 

[okrebel92]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> evidently this isnt that big of a deal to the OP since i made a decent offer on a "ruined" bolt with no response.

chuck </div></div>
You mean besides the PM I sent you? Give me more than a day to find out what I'm gonna do. I've never had to replace a bolt so I'm considering getting a bolt from PT&G or a bolt from another hide member. If you want it that bad, I'll sell it to you when I decide (which will probably be by the end of the week.) Im a full time college student so its hard to drop 200 dollars on a new bolt.

Joe

 

[phideaux]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uuuuhhhh, I am thinking they are perhaps silver brazed or such and unless they have changed recently(not) they are 3pc bolts,lugs being seperate. Look on a stainless bolt, where they are blued is the actual seam. <span style="color: #FF0000">You can't run stainless on stainless because of galling </span>so the bolt head of a stainless reciever is CM unless I am on a different planet???? </div></div>

maybe 30 years ago before they figured out if you heat treat the two SS parts bearing on each other a bit different. My SS Colt 1911 has no galling, neither do any of my other SS handguns or bolt rifles.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you people spend big money to have bolt handles welded and screwed on because they just fall off in your hand but you believe that the actual lugs are also soldered on. is there no common sense left in the world? the bolt body may be three pieces being the handle and front and rear halves, but i can assure you the lugs themselves are not brazed, soldered, or welded on. evidently this isnt that big of a deal to the OP since i made a decent offer on a "ruined" bolt with no response.

chuck </div></div>

Its the bolt nose that is brazed on not just the lugs.If you look carefully just below the the lugs on the body you will see where its attached.To the op get it fixed whether you think its a problem or not its cheaper to fix it them risk it.

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

you JUST pm'd me late this evening. this has been going on for a couple of days now. you could have replied immediately that you needed some time to decide instead of coming on here and leading everyone to believe that you responded in a timely manner but i am just being a hard ass. one last thing, if there is a community college in your area, get with the welding instructor and have them die check the bolt. you will know for certain if there are any other flaws and they can teach the students something in the process. good luck with your bolt but dont bother contacting me if you decide to sell it in the future.

chuck

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you people spend big money to have bolt handles welded and screwed on because they just fall off in your hand but you believe that the actual lugs are also soldered on. is there no common sense left in the world? the bolt body may be three pieces being the handle and front and rear halves, but i can assure you the lugs themselves are not brazed, soldered, or welded on. evidently this isnt that big of a deal to the OP since i made a decent offer on a "ruined" bolt with no response.

chuck</div></div>

Do try to keep up now... the entire bolt head is soldered to the hollow tubular body, and then the handle is attached via silver solder. The lugs are not separate, the entire head is.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you JUST pm'd me late this evening. this has been going on for a couple of days now. you could have replied immediately that you needed some time to decide instead of coming on here and leading everyone to believe that you responded in a timely manner but i am just being a hard ass. one last thing, if there is a community college in your area, get with the welding instructor and have them die check the bolt. you will know for certain if there are any other flaws and they can teach the students something in the process. good luck with your bolt but dont bother contacting me if you decide to sell it in the future.
chuck</div></div>

Don't be an asshole, look hard and you'll notice this isn't a for sale thread. You're lucky he even entertained the thought. I'll go ahead and say it, I think you are playing with fire using a fucked up bolt, but hey... it's your funeral. The OP obviously has some sense, at least enough to ask about it. He's gotten the answer umpteen times, and been introduced to half a dozen potential fixes, and now he has a big expensive decision to make. Yet you seem to be the only one having a problem getting on the same page.

Some things you just shouldn't screw with, but some people just have to piss on the electric fence to find out what pain really is. More power too you, but I'll be right there to point and laugh when yours destroys an expensive gun.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phideaux</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Uuuuhhhh, I am thinking they are perhaps silver brazed or such and unless they have changed recently(not) they are 3pc bolts,lugs being seperate. Look on a stainless bolt, where they are blued is the actual seam. <span style="color: #FF0000">You can't run stainless on stainless because of galling </span>so the bolt head of a stainless reciever is CM unless I am on a different planet???? </div></div>

maybe 30 years ago before they figured out if you heat treat the two SS parts bearing on each other a bit different. My SS Colt 1911 has no galling, neither do any of my other SS handguns or bolt rifles. </div></div>

My comment was in regards to Remington and what they use to make their bolts and how. Can't believe the frickin nitpicking shit in this thread. If I have to explain to the exact flippin point what I mean when the thread was concerning a Remington bolt I'll quit wasting my time. What the hell is wrong with people on this forum anymore??? Everyone looking for a damn arguement it seems!!!!!

Thanks for enlightening me that your 1911 and every other stainless trinkett made in the last 30yrs is relevant to the topic being discussed, a Remington bolt!!!!

I'm done with this shit!

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

brad,

i can keep up pretty well but the misuse of certain terminology is causing some confusion. the seam is on the bolt body and has nothing to do with the lugs. your lack of knowlege about the sako extractor leads me to believe that you may be the one lagging behind. im only going to tell you this one more time. dont speak to the grownups unless spoken to.

chuck

 

[okrebel92]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Ok, guys. <span style="text-decoration: underline">I appreciate the comments on what <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> should do for <span style="font-weight: bold">MY bolt</span>. </span>There were alot of helpful posts but I agree that some people are just looking for an argument and in the process they lose sight of the original question. some of yall need to lay off the haterade and thank god for your health. I love the hide. lol

Joe

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

The damage is a tear where the bolt seems to have taken an impact on the nose. I have seen this common damage on many Remington bolts and even some Remington clone bolts. If you will look at any other R700 bolt in that exact area, you will notice that the area torn on your bolt is extremely thin and is easily damaged. Its sole purpose is to help retain the extractor. I would also share my opinion that the damage has no chance of spreading to any critical area. This is not a material defect but rather a design weakness that puts a very thin piece of material in an easily damaged area.

The <span style="text-decoration: underline">outer wall </span>of the bolt nose is one of Remington's "3 rings of steel". That outer wall is still intact and is in no danger of the effected area spreading or cracking into it.

The damaged area has zero function as far as pressure containment during firing. You could basically mill away the entire bolt nose down to the breech face and not effect the strength of the action. What that area does do, in theory, is help slow down some of the high pressure gases in the event of a case failure by making the escape route less direct. Most catastrophic case failures are around the case head/web forward of the rim at the exact point that the case ceases to be supported by the chamber. Again, it becomes strictly a gas flow route not a mechanical means of adding any strength to the action.

Some will even argue that the countersunk breech area around the barrel chamber helps redirect any high speed gas evacuation right down the sides of the bolt body toward the shooter. Many, many other sucessful and famous actions have no bolt nose countersink or breech/chamber countersink.

After sharing my above opinion I would still say that I would want the bolt repaired just to have it back to spec. and looking right. The torn piece could certainly move into a position to interfere with the ejector or any rounds trying to seat against the breechface.

All of the above is only another opinion to be thrown into mix. Sorry if my opinion contradicts others.

 

[6.5mmman]

Re: Crack in bolt! Need to replace? *pics*

Just buy a new bolt. You should have common sense enough not to use gun parts that are damaged like that. Retire the gun for a couple weeks until you can afford to replace it if you cant right now.