So anything sold in commerce is a consumer good?
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So anything sold in commerce is a consumer good?
Screwdriver for the flat on the nut opposite the clamp, bud.The ADM mounts I had required no tool to adjust tension
Funny they state fingers are more than capable??? All I ever used to adjust mineScrewdriver for the flat on the nut opposite the clamp, bud.
I slept in a van down by the river. Gunsmiffin skewl is spensiveAre you a gunsmith or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn?
By the standards of this thread we’ve got a lot of gonsmifs here.I slept in a van down by the river. Gunsmiffin skewl is spensive
He’s defensive because he pays a gunsmith to mount them…Dang, got to hire a contractor cause it takes tools to install a drywall hanger. Clearly not a consumer item.
Yes,I do think it’s a ridiculous position and frankly I think you’re being defensive cause you own a bunch of them.
It’s a 3 week practical at SDI. They send you an empty paper towel roll to mount on your school issued pop gun.Ok, I have been avoiding this train wreck, but how hard is it to install a scope mount?
That’s just too easy, duct tape or super glue and best of all no reading skills required.It’s a 3 week practical at SDI. They send you an empty paper towel roll to mount on your school issued pop gun.
Yep. Had the same experience. My assessment is the drive heads are too shallow, terrible design.They also use the shittiest softest torx fasteners ever known to man, it’s the only mount I’ve had to buy replacement fasteners because they were stripping and yes retards, I was using the proper torx bit.
Uh huhFor the umpteenth time. This is a known issue. It's NOT a design flaw or a user issue. It's a MATERIAL issue. They received a bad batch of aluminum. All the cracked bars can be traced back to that batch of aluminum. MHSA will send you a new bar at no expense to you other than the time to call Kent and ask. This is from Hakan's mouth to my ear when I asked him directly about this issue during a Spuhr training session at MHSA.
People just love beating this dead hobby horseFor the umpteenth time. This is a known issue. It's NOT a design flaw or a user issue. It's a MATERIAL issue. They received a bad batch of aluminum. All the cracked bars can be traced back to that batch of aluminum. MHSA will send you a new bar at no expense to you other than the time to call Kent and ask. This is from Hakan's mouth to my ear when I asked him directly about this issue during a Spuhr training session at MHSA.
Where are you seeing this?Uh huh
Considering new redesigned clamping bars are cracking. And ring top half’s are cracking
Where are you seeing this?
For the umpteenth time. This is a known issue. It's NOT a design flaw or a user issue. It's a MATERIAL issue. They received a bad batch of aluminum. All the cracked bars can be traced back to that batch of aluminum. MHSA will send you a new bar at no expense to you other than the time to call Kent and ask. This is from Hakan's mouth to my ear when I asked him directly about this issue during a Spuhr training session at MHSA.
People just love beating this dead hobby horse
User error. You’re over torqued. Bring to a gunsmith and have him try 10 inch lbs. Crack free!!Spuhr is over rated. Prove me wrong
Price Cracked mounting plates Causes some scopes to lock up the magnification ring. Rare reports of cracked ring top halves. Buy a set of NightForce. More durable and almost as many Mount options for rails red dots etc. and cheaper.www.snipershide.com
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If that arc zco thread wasnt closed deathbedoredismountingdick could be in there saying you need to “be smarter than a engineer “ and “use half the recommended torque values”User error. You’re over torqued. Bring to a gunsmith and have him try 10 inch lbs. Crack free!!
Im thinking by now most probably have him on their ignore list and don't see the responses anywaysIf that arc zco thread wasnt closed deathbedoredismountingdick could be in there saying you need to “be smarter than a engineer “ and “use half the recommended torque values”
Not to be a dick, but a consumer good is simply a product purchased by individuals for private use. Hence consumer "a person who purchases goods and services for personal use."If a scope mount just snapped over a receiver and a scope just snapped into the scope mount and a retard could get it running then it would be a consumer item.
Ammo is a consumer item. A gun is a consumer item. But a scope mount is a gunsmith item. You need tools to install it and you can’t just slap it on.
Yes if its intended for personal use. Services as well.So anything sold in commerce is a consumer good?
37Isn't he a Captain? What a tard. How many people had to fuck up before he got that rifle?
I have had like a dozen spuhrs. I have like 8 right now and 3 of them get swaped around a few times a month for years now. Everytime they are torqued to 25lbs with a t20. Borka or fix it sticks.I have never once had them crack or any issue. I would bet I take them off an retoque more than 98% of spuhr owners.
I still think it's a user/over torque issue. People using garbage torque devices like a fat wrench or not knowing difference between a in and ft lb. I would have had it happen a few times now if they were all as defective as people make out.
Not really, most bolt action rails are steel or titanium. Mounts are aluminum and as designed will fail before the rail is deformed. And yes it is the torque and possibly some vibrational stress that is to blame. Force passes through the mount until it finds a weak point.My scope mount isn't cracking in an area that would be affected by over-torquing; it's cracking on the ridge of the plate.
The area around the threads appears fine.
Additionally, if I applied enough torque to crack the aluminum from which the mount is made, the picatinny rail on my rifle would likely also suffer some damage due to the localized stress where the mount attaches on the upper receiver.
No, it's not. What are you talking about?Would you trust anyone to mount your scope? Cuz that’s the definition of consumer.
We're talking about the rifle it's on, which has a forged aluminum upper.Not really, most bolt action rails are steel or titanium. Mounts are aluminum and as designed will fail before the rail is deformed. And yes it is the torque and possibly some vibrational stress that is to blame. Force passes through the mount until it finds a weak point.
To be honest I'd call an electrician if my breaker flipped and wouldn't flip back. I don't screw with electricity, I'll pay some other poor bastard to get electrocuted, same with sewage, just not my game.I still have ring lapping kits from the days of yore before CNC. Anyone who thinks you need a gunsmith to mount rings and a scope is the same kind of person who calls an electrician when a breaker trips or light bulb is burned out, or a plumber when the when the duce in the toilette stops it up.
If it's not a design issue, why is Spuhr on Gen 3 of the clamp bar design, and furthermore why are they still using the bad batch of crack prone aluminum 10+ years later based on the reports and pictures?
I've had several 2011-2015ish production thinner design Gen 1 clamp bars crack and saw quite a few pictures of cracked Gen 1 ring caps around that time. I had a 2022ish warranty replacement gen 1 style clamp bar from Mile High crack, and here we are in 2024 and people are still showing pictures of recent production cracked Gen 2 (4 screw, thicker pads, just like in post #1 of this thread) and possibly even Gen 3 (5 screw, thicker pad) clamp bars. Occasionally someone posts pictures of cracked Gen 2 ring caps, just like above.
Spuhr engraves a 4 letter lot/production code on all their parts, if they really got a bad batch of aluminum and had their paperwork in order and knew where the bad aluminum ended up why didn't they post a recall notice saying "all mounts with xxxx, yyyy, and zzzz lot codes engraved on them should contact their dealer for replacement mounts?" A proactive replacement plan would look a lot better for their reputation than 10+ years of people posting cracked clamp bars and rings.
Wrong, we're beating a dead *professional* horse. Can't be a hobby horse since hobby implies a consumer item and we clearly established a scope mount is a gunsmith only "professional" item on the previous page.
That's an example one. What was the "story" behind its failure? I never had one warranty claim for rings in my time at MHSA nor am I aware of any.Spuhr is over rated. Prove me wrong
Price Cracked mounting plates Causes some scopes to lock up the magnification ring. Rare reports of cracked ring top halves. Buy a set of NightForce. More durable and almost as many Mount options for rails red dots etc. and cheaper.www.snipershide.com
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They don’t want to hear this! It is the pack mentality at work, they pick a high vis topic and regurgitate worthless accusations and defend them with made up arguments. Everything has a percentage of failures, with a high volume sales product like the spuhr mount there will statistically be a number of failed items. The company stands behind them, so I don’t have an issue with them.So Spuhr shouldn't improve the design as field use exposes any areas for improvement?
I'd assume that the majority, if not all, of the failures of the later design(s) are users over torquing or dropping the rifle. It's a pretty basic design, specifically the ring clamps. Aluminum is used in petty much all rings. There's thousands, if not tens of thousands, of these mounts in use. Many in military and LEO use and have been vetted by those .govs before purchasing. And they continue to use Spuhr mounts. If it was an actual design issue, we'd be seeing these daily here on the Hide and all these agencies would abandon them for something else. Spuhr was nearly the exclusive mounts used here on the Hide for a decade. The amount of complaints vs. users is minimal and we know when something does go wrong, they all come out of the woodwork to let us know. We have one salty customer who has an axe to grind who's made it his life's work to let everyone know and attempt to disparage them at any chance. He's also been banned from this site at least three times. I'll let his reputation speak for itself.
Of course we're going to continue to see failures from the bad batch of aluminum as they continue to happen. That's par for the course with a bad batch of material. There's no expiration date for these mounts and people will get years and decades of use until it fails if it fails at all. It's possible that the batch of bad aluminum isn't a guarantee of failure and there's no real need to recall all of them as it's possible not all are going to fail. Maybe it's a combination of bad material and users over torquing where unaffected material could handle the over torquing. I can only share what was told to me from Hakan.
I have had many cheaper rings fail, generally the screws. I'd assume others have as well. No one creates a thread about it because we (should) know that it's because it's a cheap mount and it's the expectation, or should be, that it will fail. People will complain when an expensive mount fails as their expectations were not met.
I'm sure if you emailed Spuhr w/ your batch numbers from the bad aluminum, they'd be more than happy to provide you with a new clamping bar. You state you've had several. How many is several? Two, three? Were they replaced at no cost to you when you called with a warranty claim? Did they fail to make it right with you when you reported your failure(s)?
Can you provide these pictures of the Gen 3/5 bar/ring failures or are you just guessing? How many failures can you account for? Shit breaks and I've seen guys break an anvil with a hammer, so it wouldn't surprise me to see some breakage.
When I state "user error" I'm including everyone, gunsmiths as well. I've met a few "gunsmiths" that I wouldn't let them fill my gas tank at a full service station, let alone touch my precision rifle. It's so pervasive that MHSA now includes the correct Torx driver due to the lack of people's ability to size their own to drive the included screws. I've also had the pleasure of working with some very qualified gunsmiths and their knowledge humbled me.
When I worked at MHSA I had to take all incoming calls and emails, with the help of others of course, including all Spuhr warranty claims. I also sold Spuhr mounts. The number of warranty claims vs. sales is minuscule and their online sales is exponentially more than over the counter/phone sales. MHSA handles all US warranty claims for Spuhr as they are the exclusive distributer of all Spuhr products in the US including any Spuhr products coming from any other US vendors. I would argue my experience with Spuhr products is more than anecdotal.
Sadly, my chest is extremely hairy.you will notice that I specifically said bolt action and they are not normally made of aluminum. And I am not sure you actually know what this about except to bang your hairless chest and feel good.
So Spuhr shouldn't improve the design as field use exposes any areas for improvement?
I'd assume that the majority, if not all, of the failures of the later design(s) are users over torquing or dropping the rifle. It's a pretty basic design, specifically the ring clamps. Aluminum is used in petty much all rings. There's thousands, if not tens of thousands, of these mounts in use. Many in military and LEO use and have been vetted by those .govs before purchasing. And they continue to use Spuhr mounts. If it was an actual design issue, we'd be seeing these daily here on the Hide and all these agencies would abandon them for something else. Spuhr was nearly the exclusive mounts used here on the Hide for a decade. The amount of complaints vs. users is minimal and we know when something does go wrong, they all come out of the woodwork to let us know. We have one salty customer who has an axe to grind who's made it his life's work to let everyone know and attempt to disparage them at any chance. He's also been banned from this site at least three times. I'll let his reputation speak for itself.
Of course we're going to continue to see failures from the bad batch of aluminum as they continue to happen. That's par for the course with a bad batch of material. There's no expiration date for these mounts and people will get years and decades of use until it fails if it fails at all. It's possible that the batch of bad aluminum isn't a guarantee of failure and there's no real need to recall all of them as it's possible not all are going to fail. Maybe it's a combination of bad material and users over torquing where unaffected material could handle the over torquing. The number of ham fisted users is unlimited. I can only share what was told to me from Hakan.
I have had many cheaper rings fail, generally the screws. I'd assume others have as well. No one creates a thread about it because we (should) know that it's because it's a cheap mount and it's the expectation, or should be, that it will fail. People will complain when an expensive mount fails as their expectations were not met.
I'm sure if you emailed Spuhr w/ your batch numbers from the bad aluminum, they'd be more than happy to provide you with a new clamping bar. You state you've had several. How many is several? Two, three? Were they replaced at no cost to you when you called with a warranty claim? Did they fail to make it right with you when you reported your failure(s)?
Can you provide these pictures of the Gen 3/5 screw bar/ring failures or are you just guessing? How many failures can you account for? Shit breaks and I've seen guys break an anvil with a hammer, so it wouldn't surprise me to see some breakage.
When I state "user error" I'm including everyone, gunsmiths as well. I've met a few "gunsmiths" that I wouldn't let them fill my gas tank at a full service station, let alone touch my precision rifle. It's so pervasive that MHSA now includes the correct Torx driver due to the lack of people's ability to size their own to drive the included screws. I've also had the pleasure of working with some very qualified gunsmiths and their knowledge humbled me.
When I worked at MHSA I had to take all incoming calls and emails, with the help of others of course, including all Spuhr warranty claims. I also sold Spuhr mounts. The number of warranty claims vs. sales is minuscule and their online sales is exponentially more than over the counter/phone sales. MHSA handles all US warranty claims for Spuhr as they are the exclusive distributer of all Spuhr products in the US including any Spuhr products coming from any other US vendors. I would argue my experience with Spuhr products is more than anecdotal.
Show me a broken/cracked MBRACE mountIf anything on a $375-500 mount is going to fail, wouldn't you want it to be the cheapest part? The clamping bar or a fastner should be the weakest link in the system.
With a MBRACE mount the weakest link in the actual mount body...and it results complete mount failure.
You don't need a gunsmith to mount per say...but the 50th percentile in intelligence is 100 IQ. That is pretty much retarded and yes they should use a gunsmith becuase they could fuck up a bowling ball. This site is a cross section of society so deductive reasoning would lead you to believe a large percentage of users on this site are too stupid to mount a scope.
You can't assume peoples competence.
Call Ted. I know of atleast 5 that were returned. 3 were replaced and 2 were full cash refunds.Show me a broken/cracked MBRACE mount
By that logic, there must be truckloads of fucked Spuhrs given the amount that have been reported here.90% of the shit that happens at matches never makes it on the internet.