I raised this question on the reloading forum and someone suggested that it may be better posed here as he viewed it as a rifle issue. I'm reloading for a Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor using Nosler brass. I'm on my 3rd firing of this brass and out of 100 pieces I've had 2 cracks and 5 complete separations of the neck from the rest of the case. No pressure signs. I have a 512 round count on this rifle and it has only happened in the last 20 rounds. I suspect a lot of faulty brass but am open to any other wisdom that you may have.
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Gunsmithing Cracking cases- need input
- Thread starter SWWI Shooter
- Start date
Is this a test (do you have an answer)? I have a bunch of once fired Hornady brass so will probably try that unless someone has another suggestion. I don't have any way to test the brass for hardness but i did reach out to Nosler so we'll see what they say.
Do the pieces of fired brass that didn't fail look normal in the neck/shoulder area?
Post a close up picture of one of those if you can.
Post a close up picture of one of those if you can.
It is a test.
I don't have the answer if by that you mean if I know what's causing your problem. I do have the answer if by that you mean what you should do next.
But it's better if you reason through this and learn something rather than just be told.
TTFN
On the fired brass that have not had the separation issue, have you tried taking a bent paperclip and feeling along the inside of the neck to see if you feel a crack forming from the inside? As noted above, I would fire a few rounds in another rifle and see if any have the same problem.
This thread already has the potential to be epic.
It may be the optics of the photo, but the bottoms of some of those cases look a little shiny. You may be getting some case stretch. If they are stretching there, they may be stretching just under the case shoulder. Check overall length, the length of the neck, and the length of the case from the neck down. Just going by what you gave us, that's all I can suggest, other than shooting them from a different rifle to see if it still happens. Remember, you are on your third firing, and I've had cases fail at that point. I've certainly had them stretch to the point of needing trimming at that point.
Are you putting a slight crimp on those case mouths, or is that slight rounding occurring from the cases being too long and being rolled over as you chamber them? If so, they are too long.
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Good idea but the problem is that most of my close shooting buddies shoot 308's. Not sure I would feel comfortable asking someone I don't know well to stick a cartridge into his rifle that have been "blowing their necks off".
Absolutely not a good idea! Not sure what kind of shooting experience you have, but get your head out of your ass, and think for a second.
Please see attached pictures. In doing the close ups, I found another that had cracked (first close up). Without fail, the ones that cracked were the ones shot in 80 degree weather, the ones that separated were shot in 25 degree weather. Also included a couple that were still loaded (aren't fired the 3rd time)
If you squint at that last pic of the twice fired loaded case you can almost see where it's gonna split.
You're correct, shooting any more rounds until the issue is figured out wouldn't be a good idea. I'm new to S.H. and I'm trying my best to acknowledge everyone's opinion and not get into arguments and hence my response. I'm an experienced hunter but quite new to the reloading scene so bear with me.
My brother is reloading for me as he has the equipment and more experience than I and he says 2-3 thou.
I would get very experienced with reloading, if I were you. And when anything goes wrong, stop everything and access the problem. Include all variables. Never ever test questionable reloads. Whether they be yours or someone else’s.
Can't feel anything on the brass that looks ok but I can feel it on the brass that shows an exterior crack
I have a thread going in the reloading section on this same subject but someone suggested that I ask it here as he thought it may be a rifle issue as opposed to reloading issue. Anyone here with gunsmithing experience think that could be the issue? As noted earlier I have 512 rounds through it with not issues until the last 20 rounds so it doesn't make sense to me that it would be the rifle BUT what do I know?
No, they weren't turned. I understood that it really wasn't needed with Nosler brass as they were pretty consistent.
Throwing away the current brass is your friend.
Buy more new brass, and anneal prior to use if purchasing new unloaded brass.
JMHO
Buy more new brass, and anneal prior to use if purchasing new unloaded brass.
JMHO
Brass should not need to be annealed to last more than three cycles without catastrophic failure. That is most definitely the wrong answer.
Something is very wrong either in the rifle's chamber or in the metallurgy of those particular cases.
Since the OP doesn't appear to be too good at logical problem solving I'll do what I said I wouldn't.
OP
Something is very wrong either in the rifle's chamber or in the metallurgy of those particular cases.
Since the OP doesn't appear to be too good at logical problem solving I'll do what I said I wouldn't.
OP
- Get your rifle's headspaced checked. Either take it to a gunsmith and let him do it or buy a set of go/no go gauges and check yourself.
- At the same time send some torn cases and their necks to Nosler and tell them everything you know about them and the reloading process used on them.
Is annealing prior to use a common practice with Nosler and other decent quality brass?
Thanks for your input. I have already (yesterday) reached out to Nosler by email and am awaiting a reply. I had thought of headspace (and will have it checked at your suggestion) but can't figure out why headspace would change after 500 rounds and cause the issue.
OK just trying to be helpful here. I'm in total agreement with 308Pirate, you've got something very wrong. I'm going to assume your brother may not be super experienced in reloading (not to be an ass just to bring up some points). Look at the shiny areas of your brass - this is where the brass is being worked. The shiny area on your shoulders appears large, this means a lot of work in that area. So my questions are:
-are the cases being sized to YOUR chamber, or to factory spec?
-has your brother had your rifle in his hands to verify this when sizing?
You've either a resizing problem or a chamber problem but this should still have been caught in the setup process of the reloading dies for your particular rifle. Unless something has changed, which would be quite rare.......
I doubt headspace is the issue by what you say, but check it nevertheless. At least you're sure instead of assuming.
If possible/available annealing should be accomplished each time the brass is reloaded.
Weather or not you do it prior to resizing is personal preference, but you will get more consistent results doing
this prior to.
I use the AMP AZTEC system.
Over sizing brass and/or brass becoming work hardened can contribute to cracking, splitting
and separation in the neck shoulder area.
As far as annealing all brass prior to initial use....no I don't do everything.
Winchester brass I anneal 100% when virgin from the bag.
Lapua gets fired then annealed.
YMMV
Good Luck
Weather or not you do it prior to resizing is personal preference, but you will get more consistent results doing
this prior to.
I use the AMP AZTEC system.
Over sizing brass and/or brass becoming work hardened can contribute to cracking, splitting
and separation in the neck shoulder area.
As far as annealing all brass prior to initial use....no I don't do everything.
Winchester brass I anneal 100% when virgin from the bag.
Lapua gets fired then annealed.
YMMV
Good Luck
I believe that they are being sized to the rifle but I will verify that. Obviously, I'm not a reloader but would the process for that be to take a once fired brass and bump it back 2-3 thou as opposed to factory specs? He has not had my rifle in hand other than to check the distance to the lands. You're correct, he isn't super experienced in reloading but isn't a nube either. I've had him reload for several other rifles (all 308's) that I've had with good results.
https://www.ampannealing.com/faq/
These guys know a little more about annealing that some people.
Just sayin
These guys know a little more about annealing that some people.
Just sayin
Target for a bolt gun is to bump the shoulder back .0015
He would not need your rifle to measure/accomplish this if he has a method to measure how far he is bumping the shoulder.
This prevents over working the area.
He would not need your rifle to measure/accomplish this if he has a method to measure how far he is bumping the shoulder.
This prevents over working the area.
See attached. Ignore the marker on them. I just marked them so I could keep track of the cases that I hadn't annealed yet.
Yes, I'm pretty certain that he has a method for checking how far he bumps them as we have discussed it.
Yes you need the rifle in hand to size the fired cases for your chamber. I've got a 223 that has such a "generous" chamber that I'm not actually sizing the full length of the neck and it actually leaves a bulged area at the base of the neck. I actually had a few rounds that pierced the primer on factory ammo. It looks funky but reloading has completely solved the issue and the rifle shoots great.
If you have a chamber that is loose in the neck area and are completely sizing the necks it would make your necks work harden and crack prematurely. Are your cases being sized with full length dies or neck sizing dies? Perhaps you have a generous neck area in your chamber and the die/bushing is overworking that area.
Agreed. Sometimes it's better to know for sure and to be able to eliminate a "variable" (in this case, headspace).
Those primers look like they have been backed out and are sharp edged, or is it my perception only?
Redding Premium Series are the dies I bought for the rifle. I think he is just neck sizing if I remember correctly from when we discussed it.
I know what you're saying and I hesitated to post that picture as it looks worse in the picture than what it actually is.
A couple posts back you talk about bumping the shoulder yet here you are saying he is just neck sizing. When you started having necks cracking, it would have been a good time to stop shooting that brass. I believe a few mentioned that in the other thread but you shoot it until necks are breaking off. I'm curious about the annealing process your buddy is using. I would have stopped shooting them after the first one broke off and pulled them down.
I'm going to go ahead and be the dick and mention that you should probably stick with factory ammo because these not so subtle hints that something is wrong wasn't enough to make you stop shooting the rifle with the same reloads.
I think sending the failed, cracked, and pulled down uncracked to Nosler that someone mentioned is the way to go.
Probably want to pull the bullets on a couple deprime without sizing and let them look over an assortment.
Maybe they will tell you something, maybe not.
Probably want to pull the bullets on a couple deprime without sizing and let them look over an assortment.
Maybe they will tell you something, maybe not.
If you could explain as why that is relevant here, we could discuss it. Primers look fine.
