Crappy groups AFTER annealing

[30MinuteRanch]

Has anybody experienced this? I've noticed this trend early on with this rifle, but chalked it up to other variables at the time. To start off, I'm reloading for, and shooting a custom 300WM, Stiller Predator action, Bartlein #3 barrel. The rifle's a 1/2 MOA shooter to 400yards... at least that's as far as I've set up paper targets. I'm using Norma brass, 78GR of H-1000, and 210 VLD's seated .010" off the lands. I've annealed 3 times and every time afterwards, the groups open up to about 1" @100, The second firing AFTER annealing tightens up to around 3/4" and then the third reload after annealing I can get 1/4" @ 100 yards. Another thing to note, the velocity also decreases on the first firing after annealing, lower by around 75-100FPS! I just did a test where the only change I made were the number of reloads after annealing, and I can throw fresh annealed brass in and shoot 1" groups, then go and put in some that have been reloaded twice and put down a 1/4" group, letting the barrel completely cool to outside temps before each "test" 3-shot-group. I'll also add that the cold bore shot on the freshly annealed is usually the furthest from the group, whereas the stuff thats been fired a few times, a cold bore will hit right where the rest of them do.

I don't have a Bench Source annealer, I just use the propane torch and dark room method. I feel like I'm pretty good at it, getting all the necks the same dull orange color before I drop it into a bucket of distilled water.

This is the first gun I've ever reloaded for and am learning a lot as I go… I thought annealing should make for better consistency, and that makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is what I'm experiencing… Anybody have any ideas? Could my annealing method offer that much inconsistency for precision shooting?

 

[LRDD]

How are you sizing after annealing? Neck or fullnlength?

 

[Mike402]

That is weird, bc I have had the exact opposite experience. Accuracy, ES/SD all improve after annealing.
I'm gonna have to say its your technique. Are you just using one torch? Going just by color change isn't the most accurate way of doing it. I use the anneal rite system which isn't as high speed low drag as other more expensive units, but when used in conjunction with two torches and tempilaq, its quite consistent and delivers excellent results.

 

[30MinuteRanch]

FL resizing with a Forster FL die, just bumping the shoulder back .003 to chamber nicely as this is my hunting rig. I just spoke with an "expert" reloader and F-class shooter and he seems to think I'm getting the necks too hot, making them too soft, and it takes a few firings to beat the brass back into the hardness that'll hold the bullet consistently and give me enough pressure for the slow burning powder to give me the performance that I normally get… Interesting

 

[taliv]

happened to me once. normally annealing helps but once i ran the flame hotter than normal and my groups went to crap. could have been something else but my best guess is i over did it.

 

[jmorris]

I just use the propane torch and dark room method. I feel like I'm pretty good at it, getting all the necks the same dull orange color before I drop it into a bucket of distilled water.

I would guess more cases have been harmed than helped with a lot of annealing methods.

If you get better results if you don't anneal them, I would suggest changing your method or just stop annealing them.

FWIW if your flame is changing from blue to orange (it certainly is because you are actually making the case itself glow "dull orange") you have already heated them more than necessary.

 

[bubbala]

The Art and Science of Annealing

 

[leadbullet]

consistency is the key in annealing, doesnt matter if a little too hot or cold as long as all the cases get the same heat for the same amount of time. if your groups opened up it only means your annealing method is flawed.
cheers..

 

[Mad_Charlie]

FL resizing with a Forster FL die, just bumping the shoulder back .003 to chamber nicely as this is my hunting rig. I just spoke with an "expert" reloader and F-class shooter and he seems to think I'm getting the necks too hot, making them too soft, and it takes a few firings to beat the brass back into the hardness that'll hold the bullet consistently and give me enough pressure for the slow burning powder to give me the performance that I normally get… Interesting

I agree with that gentleman!

 

[wildfowler]

I have not tried this yet but this method of measuring the temperature seems like it may work better.

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files...eloading/tools/Annealing-Kit-instructions.pdf

I've tried using the 750 degree templiaq inside the neck, but I couldn't tell what was going on with the temp paint. It will burn and turn black if you use it on the outside of the neck and use the flame directly on the paint.

The Hornady instructions uses lower temp templiaq just below where the flame will be applied. I'm not suggesting you buy this kit, but you may want to consider using some templiaq to regulate your temperature?

 

[918v]

If you heat the brass till it glows then you have overdone it. Heat the brass with a torch till it changes color from shiny brass to dull brown. I use a micro torch for better temperature control.

 

[Rookie]

Make sure you size AFTER annealing.

 

[delixe]

If you are heating brass until it is glowing you are heating it way too hot.
Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Heated this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft.
The Art and Science of Annealing

I heat until 750 degree Tempilaq changes color with my Giraud annealer.

 

[arnie19]

I do my cases in a total dark room and get just a slight dull red which seems to work just fine . If you get red color at all in normal light then its too hot .

 

[culater]

To start off, I'm reloading for, and shooting a custom 300WM, Stiller Predator action, Bartlein #3 barrel. The rifle's a 1/2 MOA shooter to 400yards... at least that's as far as I've set up paper targets. I'm using Norma brass, 78GR of H-1000, and 210 VLD's seated .010" off the lands.

Just asking how long your barrel and what is your FPS with that load. Im looking to try out some 210 smk with norma brass and h 1000 and some other powders I have in hand. looking to push my 210 to 2900fps for my chance at a mile shot in 2 weeks at Thunder Valley. Thanks

 

[pawprint2]

Are your cases being rotated while the heat is being applied? I know the old standby, standing in water dark room etc., but I do not think without even application (rotating case) you can get even softness, unless you're using more than one heat source etc. The best machines all seem to rotate while heating.