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Crazy drop with 6.5 Creedmoor at 200 yards?!

#51
So after sleeping on it, I think I can better explain my assertion on the scope base.
Or possibly get a better explination on my error in judgment, please.

I'm going in moa since the op has an moa scope. The op said he thought a gross error
in gun or scope was probable.

If for some reason the rail was put on backwards "the rpr comes with 20 moa rail".
Then the scope would have a 20 moa eror pointing up at 100 yards.
Adjusting for that would be possible. You turret would end up about + 21 to be on.
At 200 the scope would have a -40 moa disadvantage and allready max out the turret.
At 300yd dirt would be the only thing you could hit.

A 20 moa gross eror can not be reasonably worked with, it is angular and compounds
With distance.

The way I understand a 20 moa base is benifitial is that it starts you out with your turret
in the lower 1/3 of his range of travel to be on at 100yd, same with mil scope,
Just to lazy for doing the math, sorry.

This gross error is not about trajectory, it is about angular adjustments.


If I have this wrong please school me.
 
#52
Snuby642 said:
So after sleeping on it, I think I can better explain my assertion on the scope base.
Or possibly get a better explination on my error in judgment, please.

I'm going in moa since the op has an moa scope. The op said he thought a gross error
in gun or scope was probable.

If for some reason the rail was put on backwards "the rpr comes with 20 moa rail".
Then the scope would have a 20 moa eror pointing up at 100 yards.
Adjusting for that would be possible. You turret would end up about + 21 to be on.
At 200 the scope would have a -40 moa disadvantage and allready max out the turret.
At 300yd dirt would be the only thing you could hit.

A 20 moa gross eror can not be reasonably worked with, it is angular and compounds
With distance.

The way I understand a 20 moa base is benifitial is that it starts you out with your turret
in the lower 1/3 of his range of travel to be on at 100yd, same with mil scope,
Just to lazy for doing the math, sorry.

This gross error is not about trajectory, it is about angular adjustments.


If I have this wrong please school me.
Click to expand...

The 20 MOA base doesn't matter, whether installed properly or backwards, because he was able to get the scope zeroed. Hell, he could have a 60 MOA base on backwards, but if he had enough adjustment to get the scope zeroed, it won't matter in this situation.

Edited to add, this is where I think you're going wrong in your thinking process: "At 200 the scope would have a -40 moa disadvantage and allready max out the turret."

A 20 MOA base doesn't become a 40 MOA base at 200 yards. It's always a 20 MOA base. Once you're zeroed, all that base is doing, is giving you 20 more MOA that you can dial up.
 
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#54
Snuby642 said:
You couldn't even boresight a 60 moa error, think about the angle of scope and barrel.
Click to expand...

You are way overthinking this thing. You put a base on with x amount of MOA slope built in. You dial in that x amount of elevation on your scope, then go about zeroing it. That base is now accounted for and out of the equation.
 
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#55
At 100yd you dial in 1moa, you get 1 inch of travel "forget drop for now",
at 200 yards that comes out a 2 inch adjustment, drag and gravity aside for now,
at 300 it is 3 inches.

So 20 inches, 40 inches, 60 inches built in to your rig going the wrong way to
compensate for drag and gravity is ok by you?

I do not understand that?
 
#57
Snuby642 said:
At 100yd you dial in 1moa, you get 1 inch of travel "forget drop for now",
at 200 yards that comes out a 2 inch adjustment, drag and gravity aside for now,
at 300 it is 3 inches.

So 20 inches, 40 inches, 60 inches built in to your rig going the wrong way to
compensate for drag and gravity is ok by you?

I do not understand that?
Click to expand...

What? You're losing me here. In my example, I didn't mean I would purposefully install a 20 MOA base on backwards or would be ok with it. It's definitely something that the OP will want to remedy in the future, if in fact his is on backwards. But that is not the cause of him being low at 200 yards, because he was zeroed at 100 yards.

If he gets a good zero at 100 yards, what does which direction the base was installed matter? Once you're zeroed, for all the scope knows, it's on a flat, 0 MOA base. You'll just have less elevation to dial in whichever way the base was installed.

Like I said before, you're overthinking this as it pertains to the OPs situation. He said he had a good zero at 100 yards. Whichever way the base is installed on his rifle, it's already been taken into account. I'm not sure how else to explain this, and to not clutter up OPs thread anymore, this will be my last post on the base issue lol. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss this further.
 
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#58
Snuby642 said:
At 100yd you dial in 1moa, you get 1 inch of travel "forget drop for now",
at 200 yards that comes out a 2 inch adjustment, drag and gravity aside for now,
at 300 it is 3 inches.

So 20 inches, 40 inches, 60 inches built in to your rig going the wrong way to
compensate for drag and gravity is ok by you?

I do not understand that?
Click to expand...
What in the total heck are you talking about?? Please stop posting and confusing the OP any more. To start with, you are wrong and getting worse with every post. Then you are basing all of this on a complete guess, likely wrong, that the OP has something backwards. Finally, as has been pointed out to you already, once your scope is zeroed, Your drops from that zero are your drops and do not change no matter where you started before zero. The laws of ballistics do not change if you’re a dumbass and put your scope mount on backwards.
 
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#59
lash said:
What in the total heck are you talking about?? Please stop posting and confusing the OP any more. To start with, you are wrong and getting worse with every post. Then you are basing all of this on a complete guess, likely wrong, that the OP has something backwards. Finally, as has been pointed out to you already, once your scope is zeroed, Your drops from that zero are your drops and do not change no matter where you started before zero. The laws of ballistics do not change if you’re a dumbass and put your scope mount on backwards.
Click to expand...
Lash,

I don’t think @Snuby642 is trying to do anything other than use this discussion to wrap his head around the base issue.

The best part of this thread is that it has brought to light why working with angular units and understanding them is a crucial skill. Once these are solid in our head we can start to divorce ourself from being linear thinkers :)
 
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#60
Diver160651 said:
Lash,

I don’t think @Snuby642 is trying to do anything other than use this discussion to wrap his head around the base issue.

The best part of this thread is that it has brought to light why working with angular units and understanding them is a crucial skill. Once these are solid in our head we can start to divorce ourself from being linear thinkers :)
Click to expand...
You are probably right, but it was making my head hurt...o_O
 
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#61
Diver160651 said:
The best part of this thread is that it has brought to light why working with angular units and understanding them is a crucial skill. Once these are solid in our head we can start to divorce ourself from being linear thinkers :)
Click to expand...

Truth.

lash said:
You are probably right, but it was making my head hurt...o_O
Click to expand...

Mine too lol.

So to get this thing back on track for the OP, I'm going to repost my last set of questions in case it got lost in all the base talk:

1. How was the 8-9 inches of drop measured? Tape measure/ruler/etc? Were you using a target with grid lines on it that you were going off of to get the 8-9" measurement? Or something else?

2. If you don't have a friend you can borrow a rangefinder from, you can pace off the distance between the firing line and the 100 yard target, and then pace off the distance between the 100 yard and the 200 yard target. If it's roughly the same to the 200 yard target as it was to the 100 yard target, we can rule that out. But if that 200 yard target is actually 300 yards, that should clearly show up in counting paces assuming you do it with any sort of consistency lol.

3. You gave a muzzle velocity (a high one at that lol), how did you come up with that velocity number? If it was with a Magnetospeed, at what point in the range session was the MS used?

Edit: Just had a thought. We don't even need you to go back to the range to verify that it was a 200 yard target, assuming it's an outdoor range and there's a decent satellite view of it. You can measure the distance in Google Earth. I just measured a couple known local ranges with it, and it's within a few yards. I can measure it for you if you'd like, I would just need to know where the range is.

4. When you had the 8-9" of drop groups at 200, was that was using the same ammo you zeroed with at 100?
 
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#65
I have 2 dogs, they both measure exactly the same.

They are both 1 dog tall x 1dog long.

The fact the Labrador drags the Miniature doxhound across the floor means nothing
As they both get to the same place at the same time.

Hide members finaly got me strait on the scope base thing I has wrong.
I'm used to it.

Hope 1shotyktr gets this weird drop figured out.
 
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#66
Even I'm confused after reading this cluster of a thread... OP, did you dial at 200yds or just shoot at Target with 100yd zero settings? If you dialed, which direction did you dial the turret? Clockwise or counter?

If you didn't dial and just shot, it implies terrible velocity from your ammo.

If you did dial scope to match a "calculator" for drop, you might have dialed the scope turret the wrong direction (correct direction is counter clockwise from shooters perspective).

Base angle (0, 10, 20 moa) has exactly ZERO effect on drop; it only allows your scope to have more usable elevation when adjust to max ranges.
 
#75
This thread cant really go anywhere until OP answers the questions on how he measured the drop, along with if these distances are confirmed. Are the targets using a standard 1" (or mil) grid, and he just eyeballed it? Tape? Intuition? Some targets sold by some ranges, even when in grid format, might not actually be standardized. I've seen some use retarded increments like 1.7" lol

I go with fucked up barrel for now, given the unknown facts.

OP, 1st anwser the above, then tell us what it does at 300 and 400. If it's exponential from there (beyond normal drop), then thats a fucked barrel., esp with multiple lots of ammo
 
#76
1shotyouknowtherest said:
Hey guys, I recently purchased a Ruger precision rifle in 6.5 cm. I have a Vortex 6-24 power scope on it. Shooting Hornady Black, Hornady Match, and Hornady Superpeformance ammo. Now here’s where things get weird..

I zeroed the rifle at 100yrds no problem. Shooting super flat and dead on at 100yrds. Soon as I move to 200yrds I’m seeing a 8-9” bullet drop! I mean wow. My first thought was something is not correctly installed on the rifle.

Took it back to 100yrds and it’s still dead on. Back to 200yrds. Same level of drop.

Weather was pretty good that day. (I have the details if needed). But still 8-9in drop at 200yrds with a 6:5cm? Every ballistic calculator I’ve tried all say I should have much less drop at 200yrds.

Anyone experience anything similar or have any thoughts of what might be going on??

I want to move out to 600yrds+ but I won’t until I get this resolved. I don’t even think my 308 dropped that much at 200.

Thanks in advance guys
Click to expand...
Measure the muzzle velocity before you move forward.
 
#82
Rocketvapor said:
Feller I saw shooting a Mosin 91/30 wasn't ringing a 9" plate @ about 200 or so.
Asked him what his hold over was. None, Mosin don't drop until you get to about 500 meters.
The reason he wasn't 'ringing' the plates was they were going straight thru it.
OK, you have fun.
Click to expand...


That’s amazing just punching straight through.
 
#83
It was the "sniper" version.

Sighted in the scope at 100, no change for 200 "it's a Mosin Nagant Sniper Rifle" shooting "182gr Sniper Ammo".

He would not shut up, talking to everyone about his Mosin.
The Mosin Nagant kicks like a MULE.

I brought the wife's once. Yup, kicks just like a mule.

I feel sort of bad now because he didn't really seem to have any friends. Everyone was polite though.
Haven't seen him in a long while.

Hey, Mosin Man, you out there?
 
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#86
Kadams1563 said:
There is NO WAY that’s running 2950 FPS. I would say 2650 is possible.
Click to expand...

That's definitely true for the Black ammo - it's possible the Superperformance and Match ammo could be that fast, if he's talking about 120gr stuff.

However, even that much of a velocity error doesn't explain the OP's problem... should only be an MOA's worth of drop (or 3 tenths) even at 2650, give or take... Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 fps lower than his stated velocity would do it, but that's a heck of a misread off the chrono!
 
#87
1shotyouknowtherest said:
Hey guys, I recently purchased a Ruger precision rifle in 6.5 cm. I have a Vortex 6-24 power scope on it. Shooting Hornady Black, Hornady Match, and Hornady Superpeformance ammo. Now here’s where things get weird.. I zeroed the rifle at 100yrds no problem. Shooting super flat and dead on at 100yrds. Soon as I move to 200yrds I’m seeing a 8-9” bullet drop! I mean wow. My first thought was something is not correctly installed on the rifle. Took it back to 100yrds and it’s still dead on. Back to 200yrds. Same level of drop. Weather was pretty good that day. (I have the details if needed). But still 8-9in drop at 200yrds with a 6:5cm? Every ballistic calculator I’ve tried all say I should have much less drop at 200yrds. Anyone experience anything similar or have any thoughts of what might be going on?? I want to move out to 600yrds+ but I won’t until I get this resolved. I don’t even think my 308 dropped that much at 200. Thanks in advance guys
Click to expand...
1shotyouknowtherest said:
Hey guys, I recently purchased a Ruger precision rifle in 6.5 cm. I have a Vortex 6-24 power scope on it. Shooting Hornady Black, Hornady Match, and Hornady Superpeformance ammo. Now here’s where things get weird..

I zeroed the rifle at 100yrds no problem. Shooting super flat and dead on at 100yrds. Soon as I move to 200yrds I’m seeing a 8-9” bullet drop! I mean wow. My first thought was something is not correctly installed on the rifle.

Took it back to 100yrds and it’s still dead on. Back to 200yrds. Same level of drop.

Weather was pretty good that day. (I have the details if needed). But still 8-9in drop at 200yrds with a 6:5cm? Every ballistic calculator I’ve tried all say I should have much less drop at 200yrds.

Anyone experience anything similar or have any thoughts of what might be going on??

I want to move out to 600yrds+ but I won’t until I get this resolved. I don’t even think my 308 dropped that much at 200.

Thanks in advance guys
Click to expand...

did you ever get a definitive answer re your problem. I have exactly the same problem.
 
#88
@uhuru - If your having the same problem, for the love of god..........do not read this thread. You'll end up with PTSD (post traumatic shooting disorder)!
Start a new thread and provide as much specific information as you can.

?
This thread should be moved to the bear pit!
I was laughing harder at this then recently deleted call a MOFO out thread.
 
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#90
357Max said:
@uhuru - If your having the same problem, for the love of god..........do not read this thread. You'll end up with PTSD (post traumatic shooting disorder)!
Start a new thread and provide as much specific information as you can.

?
This thread should be moved to the bear pit!
I was laughing harder at this then recently deleted call a MOFO out thread.
Click to expand...
Truthiness! ??
 
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#91
Will take everyones advice and write a new thread. I have all the maths and details so should not be too far a stretch to get some clarity. thanks all.
 
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