Creedmoor barrel life

[Rebelirons]

not sure if this has been touched on but is there a ballpark round count that a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel has before it needs a swap? Looking at a used rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor and the barrel has "around 1,200" rounds down. I know the actual number depends on a number of variables but let's say all things being equal, is there a number range? Thanks

 

[Renomd]

1500-1600 rounds is where most of the tactical competitors pull their barrel. The higher velocity loads will decrease that by 100-200. I'm sure if you hunt with this round or shoot local matches you can squeeze out 1800-2000 rounds. It's really rate of fire, duration of string of fire, and velocity that will vary this life span.
I'm at 1246 on my AI 6.5 CM barrel, and have not used it in a points race match b/c the velocity is varying too much now...but dang accurate still. It's used only for local matches now and practice.

 

[NoLegs24]

^^ Damn thats pretty quick isn't it?? Those numbers sound more for a 6CM. Unless their using a RL Variant powder pushing a 140 near or at 3k fps.

 

[2c1fr]

Ttrl

 

[Supersubes]

I think 3000 plus is pretty average.

 

[dannySH]

Yeah, 1500-1600 sounds more like a 6CM. Barrel life for the 6.5CM is around 2000-3000. The two I have burned lasted 2700 and 2950. Even though both remained shooting sub MOA the velocity dropped by more than 100 fps from one day to another. I know some guys that have squeezed way more than 3000 shots.

 

[Rob01]

Yeah 1500-1600 is pretty low and 6mm numbers. The 6.5 is more in the 2500 range. My first barrel that was only shot in matches are around 2300 rounds when it started opening up more than I liked and I changed it out. Some get more but 2500-3000 would be the average area to figure.

 

[uncoffeed]

If I could hop in on this thread. . .
My stock 6.5CM Savage recently lost about 40fps from one day to another. The round count was ~1340 at the time. Accuracy is still there for sure, but the velocity has remained consistently low for the last 200 or so rounds. Could this be indicative of barrel wear? It seems odd that it would wear "suddenly", then stay consistent for some time.
It was running around 2780fps, then it dumped to about 2740. I verified my powder scale and eliminated bullets and primers as a variable. The brass were on the same number of firings (prepped as one big batch), and the powder was from the same 8lb jug I've used for the last 900 rounds.
My normal load is 42.1g of H4350, 140 ELD-M, .035 off (2.197" CBTO).

 

[Niles Coyote]

I have a 26" x-caliber barrel and run 42.5 to 42.7 of H4350 depending on which 139-142 grain bullet that I am using and it has 1950ish rounds through it to date. It has lost 25-30fps from where the velocity peaked. Shots on target, both near and far have not really changed much and it has remained a pretty consistent .6ish MOA barrel. I wish I had kept the bullets I used to take throat measurements with as its is hard to say how much the throat has eroded but my SWAG it about .030-.040" That said I am making plans for its replacement before it hits 3k. I ordered it with a couple inches of extra chamber so it may come back on another action with a new chamber depending on its condition and be used as my practice/hunting rifle from there on.

 

[Rebelirons]

Good info guys thanks. I was. Hoping to see what some of the real world numbers were.

 

[Darkside-Six]

My 6.5 barrel just recently went this last fall and it was right at about 2200. My velocity dropped off dramatically over about 100 rounds. Over 100fps. It was still very accurate, but the velocity really fell so I would say if you hit 2000 start thinking about replacing the barrel soon.


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[Sendit6.5]

Use these numbers LOOSELY - as an indicator of when you should start really looking out; and keep meticulous records. SO many variables involved: your particular barrel, the loads you shoot and HOW you shoot. Heat is the enemy.


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[wapiti16b]

Yeah 1500-1600 is pretty low and 6mm numbers. The 6.5 is more in the 2500 range. My first barrel that was only shot in matches are around 2300 rounds when it started opening up more than I liked and I changed it out. Some get more but 2500-3000 would be the average area to figure.

Rob01 , what brand barrel were and are you using for your 6.5CM ? and please any other specifics you care to share .
Thanks !

 

[MarcusOlsson]

I always feel like y'all pull your barrels very soon or perhaps abuse them during their life?
My 6.5x55 has just above 3000rnds thru it and it just recently lost about 60fps with the same load but it still groups thru out an entire match (max pressure load with Vv n160 powder and 130gr norma).
I got another barrel arriving within a few weeks but with my buddy gettint about 4000 rnds out of his 6.5x55 improved for every barrel before it starts opening up when it gets hot during matches, I'm not even worried.

I mean 1500 rnds for a 6.5? My 6xc buddies usually don't pull before 2000-2500 ?

Cheers from Sweden

 

[Rob01]

Rob01 , what brand barrel were and are you using for your 6.5CM ? and please any other specifics you care to share .
Thanks !

That barrel was a Krieger 8 twist 28" MTU profile. Shot a lot of 2800-2850fps 140 AMAX loads in it and pretty fast at matches. My present barrels are Bartleins and one had about 1100 rounds through it and the other only a couple hundred.

 

[NamibHunter]

I realize this is an old thread, but for the record, i got 2,500 rounds of good accuracy out of a Savage factory barrel. Was remarkably accurate for a factory barrel: Averaged around 0.35” three shot groups and 0.5” five shot groups.

Over the next 100 rounds, speed became erratic, between 50 and 100 fps variation. Still accurate at short range, but mostly useless at longer ranges (400 plus). So retired it.

However: Did not have a bore scope at the time. Yesterday took the barrel out and bore scoped it: It had a noticeable carbon ring in the chamber, big enough to get under the case neck.

Could that carbon ring perhaps have pinched the bullet and caused higher speed, and maybe contributed to the speed variations? Busy scrubbing it with Ballistol and a bronze brush. Looking a lot better already.

I have a barrel vice, barrel nut and go/no-go gauges, might try to put the old barrel back on the gun and see if it perform again. Takes about 15 minutes.

Worth the effort? I would be happy if it achieves 0.5-06” groups, and then use it as a hunting rifle. Best barrel i ever owned.

Or ask the gunsmith to cut off 1/2” and rechamber? It is a 1” bull barrel. Not sure if there really is enough material for the new threads.

Advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Campguy308]

I realize this is an old thread, but for the record, i got 2,500 rounds of good accuracy out of a Savage factory barrel. Was remarkably accurate for a factory barrel: Averaged around 0.35” three shot groups and 0.5” five shot groups.

Over the next 100 rounds, speed became erratic, between 50 and 100 fps variation. Still accurate at short range, but mostly useless at longer ranges (400 plus). So retired it.

However: Did not have a bore scope at the time. Yesterday took the barrel out and bore scoped it: It had a noticeable carbon ring in the chamber, big enough to get under the case neck.

Could that carbon ring perhaps have pinched the bullet and caused higher speed, and maybe contributed to the speed variations? Busy scrubbing it with Ballistol and a bronze brush. Looking a lot better already.

I have a barrel vice, barrel nut and go/no-go gauges, might try to put the old barrel back on the gun and see if it perform again. Takes about 15 minutes.

Worth the effort? I would be happy if it achieves 0.5-06” groups, and then use it as a hunting rifle. Best barrel i ever owned.

Or ask the gunsmith to cut off 1/2” and rechamber? It is a 1” bull barrel. Not sure if there really is enough material for the new threads.

Advice would be greatly appreciated!

Ditch the ballistol and go to the store and get some CLR. Use a 30 caliber brush, or you'll never get the carbon ring out. I suggest using a drill to spin it too.

 

[NamibHunter]

Ditch the ballistol and go to the store and get some CLR. Use a 30 caliber brush, or you'll never get the carbon ring out. I suggest using a drill to spin it too.

CLR=? Happy to try anything that works faster!

Have been using a drill set at low speed, and an oversize bronze brush... manual approach was very ineffective.

 

[Campguy308]

CLR=?

Calcium Lime Rust...the bathroom cleaner stuff. Eats up carbon like nothing else

 

[Ledzep]

That far into it I'd just get a new barrel. I got 3200 out of my Brux and I cleaned it pretty religiously every 100-200 rounds and checked it periodically with a bore scope. No carbon rings and it started throwing bad fliers about 3000 into it. 8 of 10 would be 3/4 MOA or better, and 2 would take it way out, 1.5-2 MOA.

Didn't check velocity much in the last 700 rounds or so.

 

[NamibHunter]

Thanks, this is very helpful.

Already have a new barrel on the gun, but group size is double what i had before. I miss the rediculously good accuracy i had before!

 

[NamibHunter]

Found it:

 

[NamibHunter]

Safe on stainless and chrome moly steel?

 

[NamibHunter]

Maybe i’m just a hopeful soul, but: Just checked and a Hornady 147 gn ELD-M can be loaded to a jam in this 8 twist barrel. Maybe there is another 500 rounds of adequate accuracy in it.... or not, but i am very tempted to spin it back on the rifle now that the carbon ring has been cleaned out.

Will not feed from the mag (2.997” COAL), but happy to single feed, if i get adequate accuracy again.... Would make a good long range hunting rifle, even if the speed is a little lower than desired, as long as it has ES below 30 fps.

Am i being overly enthusiastic?

 

[Campguy308]

Safe on stainless and chrome moly steel?

Ive only used on stainless, but I'm sure it'd be fine on chrome moly too.. If you are not happy with your current barrel, no harm in throwing the old one back on.

 

[Rob01]

Maybe i’m just a hopeful soul, but: Just checked and a Hornady 147 gn ELD-M can be loaded to a jam in this 8 twist barrel. Maybe there is another 500 rounds of adequate accuracy in it.... or not, but i am very tempted to spin it back on the rifle now that the carbon ring has been cleaned out.

Will not feed from the mag (2.997” COAL), but happy to single feed, if i get adequate accuracy again.... Would make a good long range hunting rifle, even if the speed is a little lower than desired, as long as it has ES below 30 fps.

Am i being overly enthusiastic?


View attachment 7189583View attachment 7189584

There is no need to jam that bullet. Seat it back about 2.860" and you can load from AICS mags and get good accuracy. I shoot factory ammo that is jumping .090" and it's very accurate.

 

[A&8's]

To the OP:
This is after a clocked 1904 rounds on a Shilen 1:7 26”. 140’s running 2650.(yeah, I know. That’s slow for a 6.5cm. But that what she likes.) Has been cleaned 2 times, each at 750 +\-. (After break-in cleaning, of course.)

 

[Campguy308]

To the OP:
This is after a clocked 1904 rounds on a Shilen 1:7 26”. 140’s running 2650.(yeah, I know. That’s slow for a 6.5cm. But that what she likes.) Has been cleaned 2 times, each at 750 +\-. (After break-in cleaning, of course.)
View attachment 7189753

Looks good to me, I say keep shooting, unless you are rich.

 

[blbennett1288]

1802-1807 rounds through the barrel. I have 2002 through it now. Still hammers. No loss in accuracy. Still running 2885-2895fps depending on temp.

 

[A&8's]

Looks good to me, I say keep shooting, unless you are rich.

Yep, I am. Ran another 68 thru it today at a match.

 

[NamibHunter]

There is no need to jam that bullet. Seat it back about 2.860" and you can load from AICS mags and get good accuracy. I shoot factory ammo that is jumping .090" and it's very accurate.

Hi Rob, thanks for the advice. Got good accuracy with this barrel before with 20 thou jump. Tried it once with a jam, and the gun did not like it. Kept chasing the lands as they wore out, and eventually the 140 Berger could not get that close to the lands anymore, without falling out of the case.

At that time, 140 gn projectiles were the heaviest and longest available for 6.5 CM. Since then the Hornady 147 ELD-M and 153 A-tip and the Berger 156 gn became available, so i can now chase the lands again with these longer bullets. [It is an 8 twist barrel, hope it will stabilize these long heavy bullets.]

I deep cleaned the barrel over multiple days, and a lot of carbon came out. Amazing what is left inside a “clean” barrel when you put a bore scope in there. There was defintely a carbon ring in the chamber as well, but the entire barrel had severe carbon fouling. Too much RL-17 perhaps. Such a dirty powder.

So really hoping the extreme carbon removal cured the erratic speed issue... and that the barrel can become the basis for an accurate hunting rifle.

This is what a dummy round looks like when loaded to a 20 thou jump with the 147 ELDM... Bordering on the ridiculous, but what do i have to lose....

 

[NamibHunter]

Btw: Would the Tubb Final Finish product help to restore decent accuracy to an old barrel? Anybody has experience with it?

 

[Steel head]

There is no need to jam that bullet. Seat it back about 2.860" and you can load from AICS mags and get good accuracy. I shoot factory ammo that is jumping .090" and it's very accurate.

This!

eldm’s like jump.

I jump the 147’s and 7mm 180’s a lot and they like it.

I’d be pretty miffed if my midsized case 6.5 died before 2800-3000.
I push my 260 fairly hard and the last two went past 3000.

 

[Ledzep]

I would say that most people that make guns and barrels wish the final finish bullets would disappear from history. That said, maybe they could help... maybe they hurt, depends on the case.

I'd think there's nothing you can do with final finish bullets you couldn't do with a mildly abbrasive bore paste. and a bore scope, taking your time. You know-- hitting what needs it, and not the entire bore at 2700 fps

 

[Rob01]

Hi Rob, thanks for the advice. Got good accuracy with this barrel before with 20 thou jump. Tried it once with a jam, and the gun did not like it. Kept chasing the lands as they wore out, and eventually the 140 Berger could not get that close to the lands anymore, without falling out of the case.

At that time, 140 gn projectiles were the heaviest and longest available for 6.5 CM. Since then the Hornady 147 ELD-M and 153 A-tip and the Berger 156 gn became available, so i can now chase the lands again with these longer bullets. [It is an 8 twist barrel, hope it will stabilize these long heavy bullets.]

I deep cleaned the barrel over multiple days, and a lot of carbon came out. Amazing what is left inside a “clean” barrel when you put a bore scope in there. There was defintely a carbon ring in the chamber as well, but the entire barrel had severe carbon fouling. Too much RL-17 perhaps. Such a dirty powder.

So really hoping the extreme carbon removal cured the erratic speed issue... and that the barrel can become the basis for an accurate hunting rifle.

This is what a dummy round looks like when loaded to a 20 thou jump with the 147 ELDM... Bordering on the ridiculous, but what do i have to lose....

View attachment 7190816

My point was you don't have to chase the lands. The ELDs can jump. They don't need to be .020" off although they shoot good there too. Something you might think about though is your barrel might be coming to the end of it's life if it has moved that much also.

Also that dummy round doesn't look ridiculous. That's about 2.870" if your almost 3" touching distance is correct. I load mine at 2.860". I load the 140 ELDs at 2.850".

As for final finish, no don't use it on that barrel. Final finish is made more for factory barrels. If you wanted to try something the TMS rounds are what i would recommend. A much finer grit and it will smooth but not remove a bunch of material. Make sure the bore is cleaned very well before using them though.

 

[NamibHunter]

Thank you sir.

Barrel has 2,600 rounds through it. Probably 500 of those are 140’s at 2860 fps (RL-17).

Will try the TMS, treatment and see what it does.

Update: Sand paper bullets are in the mail.

 

[drwood96]

Btw: Would the Tubb Final Finish product help to restore decent accuracy to an old barrel? Anybody has experience with it?

I used them on a factory Savage barrel with mixed results. It did improve the barrels speed and made it easier to clean but it eroded that throat as well.

Good for rough shooting factory barrels but not needed for any decent aftermarket barrel.

 

[Racer88]

I've posted about this on other threads, but this thread is specific to the subject. I've got 3,259 rounds, to be precise, through my Ruger Precision Rifle 6.5CM with the original barrel. And, it's still doing this with factory ammo (the last few range trips):

100 yards:

200 yards:

300 yards:

I'm eyeballing a Krieger barrel to replace the OEM barrel. But, damn... it's still shooting well! I'm calling it the "Hannukah Miracle Barrel!" It never burns out!

 

[NamibHunter]

Very impressive sir! Any barrel that consistently shoot 0.4 MOA or better is very respectable. A 6.5 mm barrel that does that with 3200+ rounds down the tube is seriously impressive!

How far has the lands moved forward during this time?

What powders are you using? Presume no hot loads ever.... what do you think caused the exceptionally long barrel life?

 

[NamibHunter]

I used them on a factory Savage barrel with mixed results. It did improve the barrels speed and made it easier to clean but it eroded that throat as well.

Good for rough shooting factory barrels but not needed for any decent aftermarket barrel.

Tubb TMS kit arrived, loaded 35 of them, cleaned the barrel very well, then shot them at minimum load (1900-2050 fps). Cleaned as instructed every 10 rounds at the range. Then took it home and scrubbed the barrel really super clean (7 repeats), stick the Teslong bore scope in the barrel, and it is now far more shiny than before. Pretty sure the lands moved further out (a little). The rough raised spots in the freebore area are all gone, looks much better than before. [I do have before and after picks, will post later.]

Now need to load more ammo that shot so well before the barrel speed started fluctuating...

Might need to tweak the load a little... will report back later. Hope the barrel will speed up...

 

[6brshooter]

Over 1800 rds on this ae 6.5 barrel

 

[dntworry]

Currently sitting at 1,800 in my stock barrel Tikka CTR have had no issues thus far. Will likely rebarrel before 3k tho just for speed.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Btw: Would the Tubb Final Finish product help to restore decent accuracy to an old barrel? Anybody has experience with it?

Yes this brought my barre back to like after 4000 rounds

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Here is a video of my old barrel that had 4000+ rounds through it. After this vid I ran tubbs final finish bullets through it, and it was shooting incredbile again. Half moa all day
6.5 cm 4000+ rounds

 

[Racer88]

Very impressive sir! Any barrel that consistently shoot 0.4 MOA or better is very respectable. A 6.5 mm barrel that does that with 3200+ rounds down the tube is seriously impressive!

How far has the lands moved forward during this time?

What powders are you using? Presume no hot loads ever.... what do you think caused the exceptionally long barrel life?

3,360 rounds as of yesterday. And, even though I didn't feel like I was "on" (just wasn't shooting my best) plus I had removed the muzzle brake in anticipation of a match next weekend, it was still capable of this. My name and my daughter's name have been redacted. We shared this target.

My daughter's last target for the day, yesterday:

I don't reload. Factory match ammo, only. No idea how far the lands have eroded. Perhaps of note: I don't clean it very often... usually around 400 - 500 rounds between cleanings. A few passes with a nylon brush and then just patches with BoreTech products.

We're going to take it to a 600-yard match next weekend. We'll see how it goes!

Chrono'ed some factory Berger Target Match 140-gr this weekend. 30 round string:

ES: 79
SD: 18.9
AVG: 2670

PS... It's amazing what a difference it makes when you take the muzzle brake off. The recoil is definitely increased, though still "mild." The bigger difference is the ability to keep the target in view following the shot.

 

[SonicBurlap]

2,500 - 3,000 rounds average; also remember it depends on whether you let the barrel cool down in between strings, cleaning habit, and what type of barrel you are using.

 

[NamibHunter]

2,500 - 3,000 rounds average; also remember it depends on whether you let the barrel cool down in between strings, cleaning habit, and what type of barrel you are using.

Always kept the barrel cool, maybe 120-130 degree F max. Typically 15 shot strings, bull barrel.

Used RL-17 for the last 600 or so rounds, and heard later that is chews up barrels... not sure if this is correct or not... Is that true?

i probably did not clean often enough, which allowed a carbon buildup in the neck area of the chamber. That alone could explain the erratic speed... Cleaned around every 150-250 shots... What is ideal?

First pic is the freebore “before TMS” taken from the chamber side, second pic is “after TMS” taken inside the freebore. Raised areas have been (mostly) removed, and the shine was not there before. Used the Teslong bore scope.

 

[FALex]

I'd call 2500 about average, some folks have reported getting up toward 3500. If you aren't cleaning the carbon ring, get in there and get it done. My gunsmith taught me to use a stiff .224 that has been wrapped with a strip of cotton cloth (not a cotton patch) that has been soaked in brake cleaner. Throw that on a T Handle (for chamber cleanings) and keep twisting in a clockwise motion.

After that one has dried up, tear or cut off another strip and run it again. If you don't have a scope, keep this process up until you've got no carbon coming off on the cloth.

I didn't know about using CLR. I'm sure if you can use brake cleaner in your bore safely, CLR is nothing...I'll try that next time.

 

[SonicBurlap]

BoreTech is all I use and if it gets too bad I use BoreShine with the pads designed for it. Not quite up there in count on the current one but it sure has worked in the past.

 

[Bradu]

I'd call 2500 about average, some folks have reported getting up toward 3500. If you aren't cleaning the carbon ring, get in there and get it done. My gunsmith taught me to use a stiff .224 that has been wrapped with a strip of cotton cloth (not a cotton patch) that has been soaked in brake cleaner. Throw that on a T Handle (for chamber cleanings) and keep twisting in a clockwise motion.

After that one has dried up, tear or cut off another strip and run it again. If you don't have a scope, keep this process up until you've got no carbon coming off on the cloth.

I didn't know about using CLR. I'm sure if you can use brake cleaner in your bore safely, CLR is nothing...I'll try that next time.

I tried brake cleaner and bore tech carbon remover, neither touched the carbon ring I dealt with. I ended up using iosso bore paste as much as I hated to, not a fan of abrasives but couldn't come up with other ideas.