Rifle Scopes Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

dustinlotz

dustinlotz

Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 9, 2008
327
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44
Naples, FL
#1
So I bought a 4-14 FFP Falcon about a week ago from another Hide member. I got the scope for $350 which was not a great deal, but it was the model I wanted and it was available. I thought, okay, it's not new (it was almost new), but at least I don't have to wait for the model I want. I mounted the scope the other day, and sighted it in which went okay, but when I got home I noticed this...

IMGP0083.jpg


IMGP0078.jpg


IMGP0084.jpg


The top turret is WAY CROOKED!!! I don't know how this will effect actual adjustments, but it is definitely not right.

I wrote the Hide member, <span style="font-weight: bold">remaction</span>, (whom I purchased the scope from) and said that I was upset that he should have told me about the problem prior to the sale. He stated in his email, prior to sale, that the scope was in great shape. Obviously it is not in great shape. How could you miss a turret being that crooked...You can't!!

I wrote the guy on Friday, and I have not heard back from him yet. I hope someone reads this that knows this guy, <span style="font-weight: bold">remaction</span>, so they can tell him to contact me. I want to work out the issue with him instead of doing a chargeback through Paypal, but I need to get a response.

I also wrote [email protected]. The Falcon Rep admitted that it was defective from the factory, but since I lived in the US and not the UK, the only way I could get the scope replaced was through the dealer I purchased the scope from. ARRR!!! THAT'S BS CUSTOMER SERVICE!!! The rep should have sent return information and sent another scope. Instead, the rep said the only way to have them service/replace the scope is through the certified dealer where I purchased the scope, and I have to exchange it based on their return policies.

I think this is CRAP!! So far, my experience with the Falcon Menace has been sub par. Poor customer service, a poor product, and poorer policies.
 
#3
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

Let me start by saying that if it where like that when you mounted it you would have noticed. After reading your post I would more inclinded to ask what happened on the way back from your range session!
 
#4
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

You're a vendor on here freaking out on a sale? My 9 year old nephew would have said WTF and not mounted that thing if it showed up that way. You zeroed it too and didn't notice it?


Torro Cacca
 
#6
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

A warranty is a warranty. A 5 year warranty on a product should never matter who owns it or how many hands it passed thru. When you buy a car with a 10 year warranty, that car, no matter how many times it changes hands is still under warranty and ANY dealer no matter where the dealer is located or what state the car has been driven to when it breaks will fix that car "under waranty".
If falcon said it was a defect from the factory should, and in my opinion, take care of it.

I am curious as to how this pans out. I will keep tabs on this thread.
 
#7
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheArtist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A warranty is a warranty. A 5 year warranty on a product should never matter who owns it or how many hands it passed thru. When you buy a car with a 10 year warranty, that car, no matter how many times it changes hands is still under warranty and ANY dealer no matter where the dealer is located or what state the car has been driven to when it breaks will fix that car "under waranty".
If falcon said it was a defect from the factory should, and in my opinion, take care of it.

I am curious as to how this pans out. I will keep tabs on this thread.





</div></div>

I am curious too seeing marks on the elevation knob, heavy frabric on the ring screws and seeing that not only the adjuster is canted but the elevation turrent has been stuffed into the tube. Very curious!!!!!

There is no way it came out of a box and got mounted that way! Using that style of ring it's a pain in the butt to get cant out of your scope and would have taken a couple of attempts to get it right.
 
#10
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

What was the rifle in while traveling back and forth from the range. I agree, I would have noticed this right away. My PMII has its mil marks off by just a bit from the exact lines and I noticed it as soon as I pulled it from the box.
How do you not notice this?
 
#11
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I wrote the Hide member, <span style="font-weight: bold">remaction</span>, (whom I purchased the scope from) and said that I was upset that he should have told me about the problem prior to the sale. He stated in his email, prior to sale, that the scope was in great shape. Obviously it is not in great shape. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #3333FF">How could you miss a turret being that crooked...You can't!!</span></span>

</div></div>

So how did YOU miss it?
 
#12
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

I am quite surprised your response considering you are a vendor, what you would expect for warranty work, considering some warranties are for original owners only, while others like USO support people regardless. To each company their own in terms of policy. Now that being said, you sell knock off Chinese ACOGs on your site ( fake acog 1 ) ( fake acog 2) , and you were originally flamed here on the hide before you a official vendor for selling knock off products here. Do these products have world wide support and warranty that is transferable ? Or would you support your customer as a representative dealer for that product line to someone that did not buy that product from you ?

I'm just playing devils advocate here and calling it like I see it. Some times you pay for what you get at a certain price point. There was another post about how S&B send you a loaner scope for warranty work. Granted, your paying $2.5k-$3k for a scope, and I would hope a company would stand behind there product, but at $400 for a small foreign company at a different price point that uses distributors is a different business model. I would see nothing wrong if their policy is to ask their customers to go through their dealers that you had purchased the product through.
 
#13
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

I can't believe that it took me that long to notice it either. The pics I sent were of the scope turret run all the way out, so it does accent how canted the turret is. I guess I was being hard on the guy that sold it to me by saying how could he not notice it because I did sight the gun in with a canted turret.

Here is how the gun rides to the range:

IMGP0086.jpg


IMGP0087.jpg


...a nice padded case/shooting mat. There is no way that was "bumped" into that cant. Even with good mounts, the scope would've twisted in the mount before the turret would give in.

I guess when I mounted the scope, I was so focused on how level the bottom of the scope was to the mount, that I didn't even look at the turret. I mounted the scope with feeler gauges. I leveled the bottom of the scope to the mount. I never level a scope by the top turret. Here is a pic of the mount:

IMGP0088.jpg


I only had to make minor adjustments once I boresighted the scope. I always pull the bolt, or remove the upper from the lower and sight through the barrel. I then look through the lens and make my large adjustments when I am rough sighting in a scope. I wasn't even looking at the turret when I did my rough sight in where I turn the turret a lot. I only had to fine tune the clicks (about .5 mils) after that. I guess I never did look closely at the turret until later.

When the turret is cranked all the way down, as it is when I sighted it in, the cant is not as noticeable, but it is noticeable. I noticed it when my gun was sitting in my office on the floor, and I was standing over it. I noticed how crooked the turret looked. I thought maybe the scope came loose from when I originally mounted it, but after inspection, that is when I noticed the turret.

I want the scope to work. I don't want some BS problems.

For those of you that said I am the one that twisted the turret, let me ask this...How would that be possible? And, if I did twist the turret (which there is no way in hell I did) why would I run that chintzy of a scope on my rifle? Falcon even admitted it was defective from the factory.

All I want is a good scope that works, and I think their service is lacking up to this point. Hopefully Scott at Wonder Optics will be of some help. I'll have to call him in the morning.
 
#14
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

As a dealer, I understand having to deal with manufacturer's policies/warranties . We are at the mercy of the manufacturer unless we dig into our own pockets (which I am not asking anyone to do), which I have done in extenuating circumstances. Most scope manufacturer's have good warranties no matter who you are (first or second owner), and if it means winning a customer to help them service a warrant-able item that is covered by a factory warranty, I don't know a dealer that wouldn't step in for a new/good customer.

As for the fake ACOGs, those have no warranty, but they are sold as such also. The person that buys that type of scope knows that they are taking a risk at getting junk, but that's why a scope is priced accordingly. BTW - me and a lot of my buddies all have fake ACOGs on our ARs, but we're not in harm's way either...

Most other scopes I sell, have a lifetime warranties, except Bushnell, but that's another story...
 
#15
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

i notice you drag bag is tri fold. in the picture with folded up the scope sits on the bottom bottom fold, so when you fold it up the rifle is actually up-side down. so when you carry it the elevation turret has a decent amount of weight on it, i think you may have fucked it up yourself
 
#16
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

The bag always lays on it's side. It doesn't lay on the turret, and the weight of the rifle shouldn't tilt a turret, at least not on a good scope.
 
#17
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

I'm going to play my "old guy" card at this point, and say how embarrassed I have been at different times in my life to have made what seemed to be obvious judgments at the time, and found out I was wrong. This country was originally founded on "innocent until proven guilty" which is what all of us would expect if it were us.

I say let's back off a little and let the dust settle. We may or may not ever know the truth. But it sucks to wrongly accuse or wrongly be accused.

FWIW


John
 
#21
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

Not trying to stir anything up here but,

It seems like you might've aughta done more research on the company. It's well known that they handle warranty work through their dealers. If you're lucky, maybe you can contact the original owner of the scope and ask him which dealer it came from, and if you're really lucky... it's someone like Wonder Optics or RWSnyder... and maybe they'll do something about it.

I can almost understand a 'small' overseas scope company not being able to handle warrantying scopes from overseas... some business just have limitations when they start out.

Now, besides that... I personally don't see how you spent time mounting and shooting behind the scope (and most likely working that knob) without noticing the crookedness of the turret. This leads me to believe it was done on the way home somehow.
 
#22
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kahlendrrari</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but when you pick it up by the handle the the turret is on the very bottom, and as the lowest part of the rifle while carried this way it is the part carrying the mos weight</div></div>
The rifle in the pic is upside down. Should be carried the other way with optics at the handle when closed. Have a similar/same padded mat/bag. If you look closely the muzzle cover/protector has an angle. Optics are always towards the handle on mine, YMMV.
 
#24
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SPDGG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kahlendrrari</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but when you pick it up by the handle the the turret is on the very bottom, and as the lowest part of the rifle while carried this way it is the part carrying the mos weight</div></div>
The rifle in the pic is upside down. Should be carried the other way with optics at the handle when closed. Have a similar/same padded mat/bag. If you look closely the muzzle cover/protector has an angle. Optics are always towards the handle on mine, YMMV. </div></div>

+1. With the rifle mounted the wrong way, one drop of the bag and you are SOL...
 
#26
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

So a guy that sells cheap, chinese knock-off scopes with no warranty buys a used inexpensive scope, gets the scope, inspects the scope, mounts the scope, zeroes ths scope, shoots the scope, gets home and upon reinspection notices (what and 3rd grader would have noticed) that the elevation turrets is the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Contacts the seller, he doesn;t respond in time, you contact the original manufacturer in the UK and you are pissed they don't just send you anew scope. So you post pics of the clearly damaged scope on the internet and bad-mouth the original manufacturer?

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">OK Let go back to the important part: So a guy that sells cheap, chinese knock-off scopes with no warranty buys a used inexpensive scope,you contact the original manufacturer in the UK and you are pissed they don't just send you a new scope</span></span>


<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">KARMA!!!!! </span></span>

BTW, how the hell do sell tacical gear including expensive optics on your website but you buy a used $300.00 optic? <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> how the hell can you level a scope on a rifle and NOT notice a severly canted turret?

Taken from you website:

27-08-2009
Mil-Dot Scopes

"Mil-Dot scopes with adjustable turrets are the most well known and commonly used reticle in long range shooting. We here at Hi Tech Tactical are devoted to helping each one of our customers learn the techniques of long range shooting, and helping individuals determine which tactical scope suits their shooting needs best."

Me thinks you are in the wrong internet business. Just sayin'
 
#27
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

I have received a email from Nick at Falcon to make a post on there behalf, I have removed Dustins part of the email as I do did not get permition to post them so I'm only posting Falcons offical response. So please don't shoot the messager as I'm just trying to get everything cleared up from both parties.

Robert,

Would you mind posting the actual email correspondence with regard to this thread.http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1355781#Post1355781


In no way have we admitted the scope was 'defective from the factory'.








Dustin

I can see from the pics that the elevation turret is 'off' by a decent amount. I'm surprised it got past us and the dealer that supplied you, in that condition.

As your outside the UK then you need to get in touch with the dealer that supplied you the scope and make arrangements for return. It is they who supply the warranty in this instance, under their own terms and conditions.

Need anything else then let us know.

Nick

Dustin,


In your original email you stated that the scope was brand new, I naturally assumed it had been sourced from one of our dealers.


I'd say your well within your rights to take the issue up with whoever you purchased it from, providing the issue wasn't made clear at the time of sale.


As stated in my first reply to you, that elevation turret is not sitting correctly for some reason. Its way outside our tolerance for turret install.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Best Regards

Nick Watts

Falcon Optics, Strawmoor Lane, Oaken, Staffordshire, WV8 2HY, United Kingdom.

(0)1902 847972

[email protected]

www.falconoptics.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
#29
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle was in the case upside down, but so what, that doesn't mean that carrying a gun upside down will cant a turret. </div></div>

Lets see here ... the rifle is upside down. Toss it into the truck, what is the first thing that hits .... highest point, what is that ... the turret.

I am not saying that it wasnt FUXOR'd before you got it. But its sure FUXOR'd now, and I dont believe that you would spend that time mounting it and shooting it and then just notice it once you got home.
 
#32
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cmonroe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Popcorn, check! </div></div>


Inbound......litely buttered,or heavy butter......Soda or ice cold beer?
 
#33
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

Honestly, you probably did the damage. Dude, you know you looked over it top to bottom when you received it in the mail and it was perfect. From your picture, its easy to tell that when that rifle was carried, the weight of the gun all on that one turret.
 
#34
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bag always lays on it's side. It doesn't lay on the turret, and the weight of the rifle shouldn't tilt a turret, at least not on a good scope. </div></div>
Come on, I know it sucks but be serious. There's no friggen way you wouldn't have noticed that during the zeroing process.
That happened due to your mishandling.
While the force that such scope have been subject to, is unknown, please remember that the Falcon is a Chinese scope, that costs a small fraction of the price of more serious scopes, that <span style="text-decoration: underline">maybe</span> could have sustained such impact w/out any harm.
 
#35
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

Sorry, but it would be next to impossible for one not to notice that fairly extreme canting upon the mounting of the optic, unless of course you're doing your gunsmithing while smoking PCP.

Must have gotten bumped in the trunk or something.
 
#36
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

HiTechTactical,

I just happened across this while on the site just now. I quickly checked my "messages" to see if I missed the email as I haven't been on the site for awhile. I can't find it there so you must have emailed me directly. I'll have to check my spam mailbox. At any rate, the mail isn't the issue, the scope is.

I can assure you that this was not like this when I shipped it. I made 3 trips to the range and adjusted the turrets each time, so I would have noticed this problem. I even took the turret knobs off when I first got the scope to remove/replace that very heavy grease that Falcon uses, it was not like that from the factory.

Long story short, it was in great shape when I shipped it. What kind of shape was the shipping box in? I protected the scope well, and I would think you'd notice upon receipt if the box was damaged. The shipment was insured, but if the box was damaged you would have noticed it. Heck, even upon unpacking it you'd notice that it was screwed up

I'm sorry to hear about your trouble, but it was NOT like this when I sold it to you. I would not do that.
 
#37
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

,,,,And the plot thickens.....

And sinks, at the same time. Seeing as it 'absolutely-positively-definitely-forshirley cannot be the way in which it was transported', then it probably has something to do with the elliptical orbit and near proximity of the gravitational pull of Mars.

I'll take mine lightly salted.
wink.gif
 
#39
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

When I used to ride and race bikes we would get these stories. They were eloquently called JRAs. I was "just riding along".......

The story does not seem to pass the “sniff test”

To steal Shankster’s comment. I am just saying

Bye the bye, layered butter and medium ice…..
 
#43
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

I could not even imagine how it would be remotely possible to get a new scope and mount it on a rifle and not notice that.

:|

Seriously.

I'm voting this happened on your way to the range after mounting, at the range, or on the way back.

For the record so far my Falcon Menace has proven to be plenty tough.

It must've taken a serious jolt to do this.
 
#44
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Babo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hmmm, the first pic shows the turret leaning left. the next pic without the turret leans right. FAIL.</div></div>

If it's bent it's going to lean left, forward, right, then back as you spin the turret.
 
#46
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

Here's the part I find difficult to believe. Sighting in the rifle requires resetting the turret to zero, where you physically look at the turret to ensure the hashmark is marked to zero.

How in the world, would anyone overlook a canted turret when you're looking directly from the rear of the scope to ensure both windage and elevation turrets are at their correct zero?

I call BS.
 
#47
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

yeah, i want to buy product from someone as honorable as HiTactiCool. he doesn't even use his own product and tries to throw the hide seller and falcon optics under the bus for his screw up. HT, you have P3WN3D yourself to the interweb.Congratulations.
 
#50
Re: Crooked Turret on my Falcon Menace!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I bought a 4-14 FFP Falcon about a week ago from another Hide member...
...The top turret is WAY CROOKED!!! I don't know how this will effect actual adjustments, but it is definitely not right...
...I wrote the Hide member, <span style="font-weight: bold">remaction</span>, (whom I purchased the scope from) and said that I was upset that he should have told me about the problem prior to the sale. He stated in his email, prior to sale, that the scope was in great shape. Obviously it is not in great shape. How could you miss a turret being that crooked...You can't!!

…I wrote the guy on Friday, and I have not heard back from him yet. I hope someone reads this that knows this guy, <span style="font-weight: bold">remaction</span>, so they can tell him to contact me. I want to work out the issue with him instead of doing a chargeback through Paypal, but I need to get a response...HiTac,</div></div>

<span style="font-size: 11pt">What you have done is very serious and comes perilously close to attempted fraud. First, you attempted to impugn the character of <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #000099">remaction</span></span>, by blaming him for damage that has been decisively shown to be something <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> caused, yet you continue the ruse of pretending the damage was caused by someone other than you, then,
</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I also wrote [email protected]...
… So far, my experience with the Falcon Menace has been sub par. Poor customer service, a poor product, and poorer policies.</div></div>
<span style="font-size: 11pt">you dump all over a company, again, for a mistake <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> made. Was it worth it? You traded your honor and reputation in a feeble, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">unsuccessful</span></span> attempt to recoup a $300.00 purchase. Was it worth it?? Not that I buy blister-packed optics, but if I did, I wouldn't buy them from you.</span>
 
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