I’m guessing this was a mistake generalzip. Considering the action was designed exclusively for feeding from box magazines this is a huge error. It is a shame that people have been waiting on the release of this action and something like this is the final product put out on the market. I hope they can come up with a economical solution because I can see this costing the company some money. I hope they sell plenty of Axioms to make up the difference. I really like mine.
Curtis Vector Issue
- Thread starter generalzip
- Start date
Joel Russo is one of the very best in the industry. If there's an issue he will make it right. If you have a $1400 custom action, it should run flawless. He won't be happy until it does.
If you demand 100% sorted out 100% of the time, then you'll need to buy a AI, or send all your parts to GAP, Terry Cross, Gradous or RBros or any other well known smith, and inform them of your expectations.
If you demand 100% sorted out 100% of the time, then you'll need to buy a AI, or send all your parts to GAP, Terry Cross, Gradous or RBros or any other well known smith, and inform them of your expectations.
Black Ops ->Defiance used to make these.
They get snatched up pretty quick in the classifieds now. I bet with enough interest theyd tool production back up.
The only option I have is to return the action for a refund. I just spent 700 to put a barrel on it so yea that’s probably not going to happen. I’m going to try some AW mags and file my mag release a bit until it fits well and see how that works
It's still for sale if I can get my money back on what I put into it. Why you want to buy it?
I'm not selling just the action because then I'd be left with a 700 dollar brand new completely useless barrel.... If I was just getting rid of the action I'd just return it for a full refund which has already been offered.
I filed the mag catch and used AW mags until they fit reasonably well. It will not feed but not with 100% reliability. Sometimes the bolt will skip over a round. Othertimes if you don’t run the action really fast a bullet tip will get stuck in the breech and gat hung up.
Def did not file it too much. It's still pretty tough to get a mag in. You've got to push hard or give it a love tap to catch so I def filed it the perfect amount. I'll be at the range on Friday or Saturday and will let you know how it feeds. I'm nervous to play with the feedlips on a AW mag like I would on an AICS mag however.
I think the issue is the mags need to feed the rounds "ass end first" so the head of the case presents itself at the highest position. I took out the mag springs and stretched them a bit and this helped. Then I tightened the chassis "mag slop screws" a bit and it seems to be feeding alright. Time will tell though how it functions when I actually go to the range and test it.
I had my gunsmith test the mags Extensively, I'll check upward pressure when I get it Monday. But realistically how much pressure are we talking about? I've never laid on my magazine in a match nor tried to, plus aw mags r pretty shallow.
With AICS mags it takes barely any pressure at all. Tell the gunsmith to pull the bolt all the way back. Push up on an AICS mag, then push the bolt forward. It will hit the feed lips and stop.
On AW mags, they would barely go in and the bolt would grind like a bitch. Maybe Curtis made changes to the action you got. Or your gunsmith doesn't understand what you're asking them to do. I spoke with Chase and he even admited the AI mags will not work if you push up on them at all while cycling the action, so I'd assume your gunsmith didn't test it right. I also have a MPA comp chassis, so we should have the same issues unless you got an updated action design.
I didn't having him test pressure upward on the mag, Just wanted to make sure they fed smooth fast and slow. Joel told me as well don't put upward pressure on the mags, & like I said before I don't plan to(or ever had to). I also feel like a lot of actions would have the same problem, I leave for a 2 day match tomorrow am. I'll make it a point to check other rifles
I think maybe its hard to understand without seeing it. If you open the bolt, insert an AI mag, and push the bolt forward it will not work. Every stage is mag in bolt back we do. So if you bump the mag AT ALL it will not feed your first round. Also, AW mags they say are super tight and some material needs to be grinded off the mag catch. This was the case so me and several others in this thread. So either you got a special/updated action or your gunsmith doesn't realize the issue.
My impact, Surgeon, Axiom, Tikka don't have this issue.
Good info, I'll check it out.. we have surgeon/impacts/defiance/AI on r squad I'll test and repost. I will also beat the shit out of my rifle to see exactly what it will do and wont. ?
Just weird because when I talk to MPA they have 0 issues, only thing he brought up was filing the mag catch with a couple passes.
That's in reference to AW mags. AI mags require no filing, but again will go too high in the action and not allow the bolt to go forward. I'd also recommend stretching the springs in your AW mags to make them feed more reliably and force the case head up a bit better.
So I had a really weird issue first time at the range. After every shot the mag would disengage from the mag latch. It wouldn’t blatantly fall out because the fit is good in the mag well, but it needed to be pressed up to hear the “click” of the mag catch engage again. I may have filed off a little too much on the mag catch but it’s weird because it only does this when firing live ammo. When at home using snap caps the mag is good. Recoil is obviously doing something weird to the mag.
Also, I get consistently hung up on the 2nd to last round of the mag. It’ll hit something in the breech and not chamber.
Terry cross is sending me another mag catch that I’m going to try before I turn to the action as the problem. We’ll see how it turns out.
Also, I get consistently hung up on the 2nd to last round of the mag. It’ll hit something in the breech and not chamber.
Terry cross is sending me another mag catch that I’m going to try before I turn to the action as the problem. We’ll see how it turns out.
It does sound like you filed too much off. I know Tikkas have had issues with the mag falling out once the magazine only had 5 or less rounds in it. The solution my buddy came up with after looking online at other people having the same issue was to bend the hole in the magazine out so it caught the mag catch better. I wanted to have him try a different spring first but he was aggravated with it and said fuck it.
I’ll try this after I get the mag catch issue sorted. I want to fix 1 thing at a time to eliminate variables. Thanks
The bolt is .750 so you have .025 less clearance than you would over a normal .700 bolt to begin with. Grind a little off your feed lips and you'll be fine, I wouldn't bastardize a mag latch. Really, it takes 5 min. Hell, my 700s will bind to a dead stop on an unmodified AICS with upward pressure in an MPA - not a flaw in the MPA or 700, so I just did a little tweak and all was good. Same with my Axioms, a little mod to the mag lips and no problems.
the ones designed and built right dont...but it aint always a drop in fit like a lot of people like to think
Not sure if these help illustrate just how high it hits on the feed lips, but hopefully a better visual.
That would royally suck to spend that amount of money to have these type of problems!!!
Got an update: Spoke with Phil at MPA and he came up with a Hardware fix to the problem. They are making a spacer that prevents the AICS mags from being over inserted. He is sending me several parts for free to try out on his chassis and the Vector. Speaks volumes to the type of shop MPA runs when they go out of their way to fix another manufacturers problems.... So long story short, if you plan to buy/run a Vector, make sure you get an MPA chassis, and it should feed AICS mags fine.
Seems kind of harsh considering the results Curtis users have been turning in this year. I’ve seen Vectors used in matches this year in all kinds of positions without a hint of a hiccup. Seen one run 6br out of AI flawlessly last week and it was from a guy shooting his very first positional type match. Several top prs shooters using them. Just heard another top guy was so happy with his new vector that he ordered 2 more. I know Chase and Joel and they are good people doing good things and supporting and travelling to matches all over the country when they can. They are a top notch crew with a great product IMO.
Great people no doubt. I love the axiom. I’ve done nothing but give people the facts as they were presented to me in my scenario. Joel graciously offered to have the action returned for a full refund and I accepted. They stand behind their product and were very responsive. I wouldn’t hesitate to do business with them in the future on an axiom or if they make another edition of the vector. Ideally I’d love to simply see an axiom with an integral lug and rail and no other changes really.
Just because you’ve “seen” and “heard” things doesn’t make facts. Facts are real life experiences from people with first hand experience with a product. The fact remains that the action truly is not designed to take AI mags as reliably as the designs of other actions. I also couldn’t get AW mags to feed well either in my MPA chassis. MPA has offered a fix and I can try it out before I return the action and give folks an update. However I don’t want to trust my rifle to a 3D printed piece of plastic at the end of the day in a match. I have too many other variables to think and worry about. Just my humble opinion.
No disrespect to you or anyone else but when ya put a broomstick in the hands of the shooters that are pro staff fof Curtis they would win. Ultimately it's up to them to make it right, reality is offering a refund for the action doesn't do much for guys who are in 4-6 weeks for smith work and money for a blank and labor. It's easy to say send it back well resell it, it's a whole other thing to say shit that's unacceptable let me refund the action and make your out of pocket right.... Well see how it's handled I think the op has done more than enough to explain the issue and still there's some who go ah that's normal just jump through a couple more hoops and it'll be fine that's just bullshit if ya ask me.
^ Yup. I hardly think what the "pros" use is hardly a good barometer for the general consumer. Look at how much the Curtis Custom staff shooters have bounced around action companies in the past couple of years. I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in that...
And let's be real. There are no "pro" PRS shooters. No one makes a living shooting PRS matches.
Good on Curtis Customs for standing by their product and offering a refund, but it's concerning that they don't have 100% reliability with AI mags. It's not hard to put even a slight amount of upwards or rearward pressure on a mag when shooting certain stages of a PRS match.
And let's be real. There are no "pro" PRS shooters. No one makes a living shooting PRS matches.
Good on Curtis Customs for standing by their product and offering a refund, but it's concerning that they don't have 100% reliability with AI mags. It's not hard to put even a slight amount of upwards or rearward pressure on a mag when shooting certain stages of a PRS match.
What sucks is the guy gets a refund but has a worthless barrel he spent money on in a blank and Smith work that I guess he can use as a bat.... In my eyes that's on Curtis if there stuff worked as advertised then he'd be happily shooting. Unfortunately it doesn't and he's the one who had to eat it which is bullshit. I mean many of the guys shooting pro staff for Curtis are rewarded handsomely. I did notice I haven't seen to many aics mags being run lol.
True. I've heard enough bad things to stay away, seems to be lots of teething issues. Hopefully they get resolved for other people's sake.
You'd think the teething issues would have been solved by now with the pro staff and the months and months of delays before the consumer got hands on. I do think it's funny there's a certain guy who is Curtis pro staff shooting a defiance action... You'd think he would have a vector sorted by now.
Yep, that barrel is worthless. It can’t be recut for another action. Nope, not possible at all. Please send said worthless barrel to me.
On who's dollar smart ass?? That's my point dudes still out more money to fix someone else's issue. Man what's your favorite flavor Curtis kool-aid
I actually have this issue on my Axiom. My father is a retired machinist and he mic'd it all out. We took the mag latch out and shaved 25 thousands off. He said thats what it needed but I was nervious so we started at 15. He was right it needed 25. Feeds well now but I didnt think about pushing the mag up. Of course when I push the mag up, the bolt will hit. I had spoke to Phil and he had advised to spread the feed lips or file mag catch. I machined it. Guess I will have to wait and see what MPA's Fix will be and get a new mag catch and start over. It feeds and shoots fine from the bench but putting that pressure on the mag is going to mess me up at the club matchs and practice. Bummed out about it.
Whos Kool-Aid are you drinking? Do you have a Curtis in this fight? You sure seem to with all your negative posts as a brand new member.
Just do were all clear here on a couple things in case you seem to have missed it.
My owning or not owning a Curtis is irrelivent to the fact the op is in fact out money because a company produced an inferior product. You see its easy for you to come in and talk shit asking oh but so you have a Curtis in the fight... Last time I checked you sir aren't out for a barrel cost. I can assure you I'm closer to the situation than you are let's leave it at that.
I have plenty of positive comments regarding things that well deserve to recieve them, a jacked up $1400 action that's pushed a guy into a out of pocket expense just doesn't strike me as a positive subject.
And finially to answer you question, no sir I don't own a Curtis you see I backed out after 6 months of waiting for something that clearly isnt remotely close to happening. I however did here the oh yea it's coming nect week next week next week for months before saying fuck it, unfortunately for the op he wasn't able to dodge the train wreck and it's cost him outta pocket which by your comment seems to be acceptable to you. For me however I have very little loyalty to any name on the side of any product, I simply use what works and avoid what doesn't perhaps you should take some notes.
I havent missed anything. You sir arent out a barrel either so it seems we both have nothing in this fight. But you keep spouting your mouth off you'll be taking a vacation. How's that note?
Abuse your mod privileges because you disagree with someone, very mature of you I can assure you I won't lose sleep over it either way.
Reality is the action doesn't work dudes out of pocket money and I have a vested interest, see he wont come in and say what I am so I have a company worth a shit would make it right in its entirety you and I both know that end of story.
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