Suppressors Cycling problems with suppressor

[Kxlexus]

I am new to suppressors and having some problems. I have a CZ P10F and an Octane 45 suppressor with Nielsen Device. It runs 115Gn and 124Gn ammo very well with only an occasional stovepipe. When I switch to 147 gn the pistol turns into a single shot. It fails to eject every round.
The pistol runs flawlessly without a suppressor attached, even with the 147 gn ammo.
I appreciate the help

 

[Viper1973]

Make sure the piston is clean, greased and is moving freely. I had that issue with my Octane on a G21. Turns out it just wasn’t lubricated enough. Liberally applied TW25 And that solved the issue. I have discovered since that the pistons have to be meticulously clean or they can hangup and cause issues.

 

[Kxlexus]

Okay thanks. I’ll try cleaning and lubricating the piston and see how that goes

 

[microsuck]

Some 147 ammo will require a softer recoil spring even with a working booster. Try some different ammo. If you are married to this particular load, they try a 1-2 lb lighter recoil spring than stock.

 

[Kxlexus]

Thanks for the help! I have several hundred rounds of 147. Where is a good place to get lighter recoil springs for my CZ P10F or Sig P320 RX? How do I find out the rate of the spring the pistols came with from the factory?

 

[NWnewguy]

I'm reminded of my last trip to the Doctors office. I told the Doc that when I woke up in the morning I had really been feeling poorly. He told me that it was a simple problem and that I should start getting up in the afternoon.

So the easy and not helpful solution is just to not use the 147gr ammo. I have had improvements myself when cleaning and greasing the piston though. I use a high temp food safe grease that's been working like a champ for all things suppressor related. Hopefully you won't need a new recoil spring.

 

[Kxlexus]

I'm reminded of my last trip to the Doctors office. I told the Doc that when I woke up in the morning I had really been feeling poorly. He told me that it was a simple problem and that I should start getting up in the afternoon.

So the easy and not helpful solution is just to not use the 147gr ammo. I have had improvements myself when cleaning and greasing the piston though. I use a high temp food safe grease that's been working like a champ for all things suppressor related. Hopefully you won't need a new recoil spring.

Unfortunately I handloaded almost 1000 rounds of the 147gn ammo. I may just have to shoot it unsuppressed if greasing the piston doesn’t help. I won’t load so much without trying it out again

 

[Lunchbox27]

I can definitely say that cleaning and lubing The booster liberally helped my 75 SP-01 cycle with the heavier loads (147-158).

If that fails, reach out to Cajun Gunworks. Ask what spring they would recommend.

 

[Kxlexus]

I can definitely say that cleaning and lubing The booster liberally helped my 75 SP-01 cycle with the heavier loads (147-158).

If that fails, reach out to Cajun Gunworks. Ask what spring they would recommend.

Thank you!

 

[Kxlexus]

Would loading the 147gn projectiles hotter, within recommendations of course, make the pistol more or less likely to stovepipe? I am trying to understand why it happens with the 147 and not the 115 or 124gn projectiles. BTW, cleaning and lubing the piston didn’t help

 

[Viper1973]

Would loading the 147gn projectiles hotter, within recommendations of course, make the pistol more or less likely to stovepipe? I am trying to understand why it happens with the 147 and not the 115 or 124gn projectiles. BTW, cleaning and lubing the piston didn’t help

It should... Stovepipes are typically caused when a spent casing is not ejected far enough - or fast enough - to clear the ejection port. That energy comes from the powder charge. Question... Have you tried any commercial 147g ammo? That would at least give you a benchmark to work toward and try to replicate. The Octane 45 isn't a light suppressor so it's going to need a little more 'oomph' to cycle correctly on 9mm.

I don't reload anything other than 40mm so I'm not going to be much help in that department. However, I've had good luck with the following using my Octane 45 on my Sig P320 compact. The P320 is SUPER finicky with running suppressed but these two definitely work for me:

Remington/UMC 9mm 147g FMJ (sku #L9MM9) (Supposed to be Approx 990fps)
Fiocchi 9mm 147g FMJ (sku #9APD) (Supposed to be Approx 1050fps)

 

[Kxlexus]

It should... Stovepipes are typically caused when a spent casing is not ejected far enough - or fast enough - to clear the ejection port. That energy comes from the powder charge.

Question... Have you tried any commercial 147g ammo? That would at least give you a benchmark to work toward.

Thanks for the help. No I haven’t bought any commercial pistol ammo since I began reloading 6 years ago.

 

[Viper1973]

Thanks for the help. No I haven’t bought any commercial pistol ammo since I began reloading 6 years ago.

Have you chronographed what you're making?

I originally tried HUSH ammo with mine since it seems to be highly recommended and it was a jam-fest. It's velocity was right around 900fps and didn't work correctly at all for me.

 

[Kxlexus]

Have you chronographed what you're making?

I originally tried HUSH ammo with mine since it seems to be highly recommended and it was a jam-fest. It's velocity was right around 900fps and didn't work correctly at all for me.

No I haven’t ever chronographed any pistol ammo. I guess because I never had a problem until trying to run the 147 gn suppressed. I will do that and see how slow it is. I already own a LabRadar and use it often in developing Rifle loads

 

[Viper1973]

No I haven’t ever chronographed any pistol ammo. I guess because I never had a problem until trying to run the 147 gn suppressed. I will do that and see how slow it is. I already own a LabRadar and use it often in developing Rifle loads

I think that should identify the issue... With my SIG, ammo in the 990-1050fps range seems to work fine. The stuff slower than that is a no-go.

 

[Kxlexus]

It should... Stovepipes are typically caused when a spent casing is not ejected far enough - or fast enough - to clear the ejection port. That energy comes from the powder charge. Question... Have you tried any commercial 147g ammo? That would at least give you a benchmark to work toward and try to replicate. The Octane 45 isn't a light suppressor so it's going to need a little more 'oomph' to cycle correctly on 9mm.

I don't reload anything other than 40mm so I'm not going to be much help in that department. However, I've had good luck with the following using my Octane 45 on my Sig P320 compact. The P320 is SUPER finicky with running suppressed but these two definitely work for me:

Remington/UMC 9mm 147g FMJ (sku #L9MM9) (Supposed to be Approx 990fps)
Fiocchi 9mm 147g FMJ (sku #9APD) (Supposed to be Approx 1050fps)

You are absolutely right about the Sig P320. I have the RX model, it came with the red dot. I bought a replacement threaded barrel for it to run suppressed. The 320RX is very finicky with the suppressor attached. Much more so than my CZ. I have thousands of rounds that I loaded before I had a suppressor and they worked great. I didn’t load them very hot as they are just for target and plinking. The silencer changed everything. I will have to come up with a load that works well in the Sig 320 and it will work great in everything else.

 

[MWM-5150]

As cheap as springs are, I would experiment with those to see if you can’t find something the gun likes. Adding that much weight on the end of a barrel really Does upset the cycling of the system. I have an Obsidian on a CZ P10C. In the full length configuration it won’t cycle any type of ammunition reliably. In the shorter “K” configuration it works 100% with any type of ammo I throw in.

 

[Kxlexus]

As cheap as springs are, I would experiment with those to see if you can’t find something the gun likes. Adding that much weight on the end of a barrel really Does upset the cycling of the system. I have an Obsidian on a CZ P10C. In the full length configuration it won’t cycle any type of ammunition reliably. In the shorter “K” configuration it works 100% with any type of ammo I throw in.

Thanks! Just curious what the effects of too light a recoil spring is? Where can I find out the weight of the standard recoil spring in my Sig P320 RX and CZ P-10F? Where is a good place to buy lighter replacement springs?
I sincerely appreciate all the help.
Steve

 

[Viper1973]

Thanks! Just curious what the effects of too light a recoil spring is? Where can I find out the weight of the standard recoil spring in my Sig P320 RX and CZ P-10F? Where is a good place to buy lighter replacement springs?
I sincerely appreciate all the help.
Steve

Weak recoil or light springs can cause frame damage and excessive wear. They are pretty much a ‘last’ option if you can’t find an ammo configuration that works. For example, on a Glock 22 or 23 (really any of the .40 variants) weaker or worn recoil springs will break the frame right at the frame rails.

The P320 shouldn’t need a spring change to work with that suppressor.

 

[SN13]

I didn't read the full thread but I had a CZ po1 and had constant issues with certain ammunition so verify that the ammunition is running unsuppressed as well.

 

[Strykervet]

A really soft load will require a softer recoil spring. I have several springs for a Glock and carry it stock mostly with the stock 17lb. spring but use a 15lb. spring when using soft handloads at a range or match. It won't cycle the softer range loads I make otherwise, it'll do exactly what you describe. I load all my own too, except .40, +P and +P+.

Look to Wolff for springs. They usually carry all sorts of springs for all sorts of weapons. I'd be shocked if you can't find 'em there. While there go ahead and pick up springs for all your other shit, they're great quality and the AR packs are nice to have on hand.

So if you can't find reduced power springs for your pistol, what you can do is just buy another stock one and cut one coil off and try that, make your own. Then two if you still have problems and so on. Usually doesn't take much. You can do it with the one you have but I think it's wise to keep a stock one handy regardless.

If it's a spring problem, I'm betting that clipping one coil or reducing it a pound or so will fix it and it'll work suppressed or not with whatever ammo. That's just my guess. Sometimes it's better to clip one end vs. the other (it'll be obvious) and after clipping it, it's usually a good idea to file or grind the cut flat so the spring rests flush against whatever.

What powder are you using? Thought of trying a different one?

What about the bullet? Is it THAT particular bullet maybe? But you say it works unsuppressed...

Typically a heavier bullet will assist in cycling an action but you gotta have enough "umph" behind it and heavier loads use less powder to begin with. You need enough gasses to do the job. While the 115's and 124's are lighter, they require more powder and hence more gasses.

Another factory load to look at is the Hornady XTP. There's another FMJ version with the same profile. Accurate and slow enough to be subsonic, my preferred OTC load if I have to buy factory stuff. It's also a good bullet to load.

Somebody makes a 158gr. 9mm bullet but I don't have any. You could try loading those, and if they cause the same problem then you know it has to do with heavier bullets not cycling the weapon. The fix will be the same though, more power or weaker spring.

 

[Kxlexus]

A really soft load will require a softer recoil spring. I have several springs for a Glock and carry it stock mostly with the stock 17lb. spring but use a 15lb. spring when using soft handloads at a range or match. It won't cycle the softer range loads I make otherwise, it'll do exactly what you describe. I load all my own too, except .40, +P and +P+.

Look to Wolff for springs. They usually carry all sorts of springs for all sorts of weapons. I'd be shocked if you can't find 'em there. While there go ahead and pick up springs for all your other shit, they're great quality and the AR packs are nice to have on hand.

So if you can't find reduced power springs for your pistol, what you can do is just buy another stock one and cut one coil off and try that, make your own. Then two if you still have problems and so on. Usually doesn't take much. You can do it with the one you have but I think it's wise to keep a stock one handy regardless.

If it's a spring problem, I'm betting that clipping one coil or reducing it a pound or so will fix it and it'll work suppressed or not with whatever ammo. That's just my guess. Sometimes it's better to clip one end vs. the other (it'll be obvious) and after clipping it, it's usually a good idea to file or grind the cut flat so the spring rests flush against whatever.

What powder are you using? Thought of trying a different one?

What about the bullet? Is it THAT particular bullet maybe? But you say it works unsuppressed...

Typically a heavier bullet will assist in cycling an action but you gotta have enough "umph" behind it and heavier loads use less powder to begin with. You need enough gasses to do the job. While the 115's and 124's are lighter, they require more powder and hence more gasses.

Another factory load to look at is the Hornady XTP. There's another FMJ version with the same profile. Accurate and slow enough to be subsonic, my preferred OTC load if I have to buy factory stuff. It's also a good bullet to load.

Somebody makes a 158gr. 9mm bullet but I don't have any. You could try loading those, and if they cause the same problem then you know it has to do with heavier bullets not cycling the weapon. The fix will be the same though, more power or weaker spring.

Thanks for the help. I was using HP-38 powder. I am switching to Bullseye and loading them hotter plus get some more springs.
Thanks again,
Steve