Cycling question, lightweight bolt carrier group and case dents

[Ape_Factory]

I'm trying to come to an understanding as to what's causing damaging dents in the side of my cases after being fired and what options I have to control it. My initial conclusion was too much gas.

Here's my combination, AR15, DI;
-16" barrel, mid length gas system
-Superlative Arms adjustable gas block in restrictive mode
-Rubber City Armory lightweight titanium BCG (not their ultralight skeletonized version)
-Odin Works adjustable buffer, currently with no weights inside
-Springco Red buffer spring

It's cycling fine. I had a Strike Industries flat wire spring and went back to the Springco Red, which is firmer, opening up the gas a bit and then back down until it didn't lock the bolt open on an empty mag. Opened it up a bit and still had the dents. My initial thought was it was over gassed with the Strike Industries spring combo so I tried the Springco Red again. No luck.

It'll feed/cycle no problem but I'm leaving nice dents in the side of my cases. I went out to test various loads today and the case denting became progressively better throughout the test. The upper is entirely new, I've shot less than 100 rounds through it prior to today's testing. I did four different bullet weights today and it became better (dent size lessened) with the heavier bullets. Not sure if this is a coincidence? I started out with 52gr, then 55, 68 and finally 73gr. The 67's and 75's ranged from very light dents to none at all. The cases which housed the 52's are not reloadable again. This is a problem as I have a LOT of the 52gr. bullets and I can practically put five of them in the same hole. It'll make a nice plinking round.

Photo of the cases. It's a hard crease, definitely not reusable:


Corresponding photo of the deflector. One question I keep asking myself is it partially caused by the shape/design of the deflector? There's a steep shoulder with a sharp edge which leads out to the deflector's extension. Notice the excellent product placement in said photo.


I'm guessing (and looking for input)I could add weight to the buffer and possibly slow down the cycle enough that the cases wouldn't be ejected so violently. I have no problems with the recoil impulse although I had one load, with the 67gr. bullet which was extremely soft-shooting. Like amazingly so and very noticeable from the other rounds.

I haven't tried the bleed off mode on the Superlative Arms gas block, was sort of saving that for when I acquire a suppressor. Not sure it'd change much.

One other wrench is I had a bit of a neck tension issue which I'm working out but I can't see if this would affect ejection

I'm headed back out tomorrow morning to test more loads, I have some 50gr. as well as some 77gr. Sierra TMK's amongst others. I had high hopes for the Hornady 73gr. ELD Match but the hotter the load, the worse the grouping was. The others were all better across the board. Barrel is a 1:8 twist.

 

[loveha]

Clip a coil from the ejector spring, or see if Sprinco offers a lighter one.
Could also pull the rubber from off the extractor spring? Not sure how that would help though.
Other option, strip of fuzzy velcro.

 

[XLR308]

Tune the gas system to optimum efficiency and don't worry about the little things.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Clip a coil from the ejector spring, or see if Sprinco offers a lighter one.
Could also pull the rubber from off the extractor spring? Not sure how that would help though.
Other option, strip of fuzzy velcro.

I have two lighter springs. Does the same thing with them and thought they may have been part of the cause. The gun runs fine with either spring, I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of it and why exactly this setup dings my brass hard vs. the old setup (mil-spec everything) didn't.

Velcro, brilliant! I know there are deflector protectors out there but velcro...that would probably do the trick. Thanks!

 

[Ape_Factory]

Tune the gas system to optimum efficiency and don't worry about the little things.

The gun ran fine, shot everything from 52gr to 73gr with no adjustments to the gas block once I had it dialed in.

When you've spent countless hours prepping your brass and reloading it,, and would like to reload it again, It's no little thing. Plus with each piece of dinged brass, god kills a kitten.

 

[isofahunter]

Put mole skin on the deflector or felt door bumps. You have to replace but they work on my ar10. The ding is cosmetic but I understand OCD.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I have a roll of Velcro I’ll test out. At range now waiting for them to open. Not concerned with dings on gun just the creases on the brass as I reload. We’ll see how it works!

 

[Snuby642]

Your runing a light weight bcg,
Have you added weights to the buffer yet?

Thats why you got an adjustable buffer right?

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Usually stuff like this comes from the square faced ejector or an ejector spring that is too stiff. You can round them off with a dremel or clip a spring winding.

 

[loveha]

I was talking about the ejector spring, the little guy in your bolt under the plunger, not your buffer springs.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Are the spent shells ejecting consistently at around 4 o'clock?

Is it hitting the deflector or the inside edge of the ejection window?

[Edit]

Looking closer at pics your deflector is pretty clean except for this edge.

I would guess some cases bounce forward.
If so
I would try heavier buffer and or spring or tune down gas.

 

[Ape_Factory]

The Velcro worked like a charm but I ended up with some double fires. Thinking the buffer is too light, will add weight next round.

Will take a look at the ejector spring as well. Thanks for tips!

 

[Snuby642]

I run my carbines with H2 buffers for a reference and they are standard weight bcg with 16 inch and 10.5 inch barrels.

It's just for you reference, that light bcg changes the norm one direction or the other.

Change one thing at a time and then tweek the gas.

 

[MontanaMan]

Likely your bolt is unlocking too fast with too much rearward velocity. So you need to increase weight of the BCG/buffer and/or reduce gas.

You should at least be using a 2-3 oz buffer, a Sprinco blue or ywhite spring & your gas block adjusted to just let the gun lock back on an empty magazine. A bare buffer is not a good idea with full power loads, IMO.

The ejected cases should be landing at around 4 o'clock.

Cutting the ejector spring may or may not be needed; RBC knows what they are doing with their BCG's so that not the 1st place I'd be looking.

On that setup with a full weight carrier, it most always functions just right with an H buffer & either a blue or white spring (w/o an adjustable gas block)

MM

 

[Ape_Factory]

I'm reading up a bit on this now and from my recollection, it looks like the double fire happened when I went back to the heavier buffer spring. While it slows it down the bolt going rearward, it'll speed it up going forward. I'm using CCI 400's and not the 41's although I just managed to snag some 41's I found at a range (incredulous!). Argh. Things were going so well...going to examine the trigger (drop-in Velocity 4lb. trigger, brand new) just in case. Needless to say I did single round in the mage testing the rest of the afternoon.

I'll add weight to the buffer and I'm also examining my primer depth. I'm using a Lyman with an RCBS shell holder and there seems to be a lot of play when I examine it. It allows the shell to rise up as you press on the primer. Not exactly a tight fit. I'm going to ream/unify a case that's ready and seat a new primer using what I have now just to rule that out.

I'm going over all the details and racking my brain. My buddy asked me about factory ammo. I shot a ton of PMC off-the-shelf cheap ammo and I did not have any double fires. I used this to dial in the rifle and make sure it was working well mechanically, cycling, etc...got amazingly tight groupings at 50 and 100 yards with this ammo. The double fires could be a magic combination of the buffer weight (lack thereof) spring, and my primer seating depth.

Ejection had been in the normal range, I tested. I also tested to make sure the bolt locked open on an empty mag. It did and it still does.

So to reiterate, I'll double check the trigger, add weight to the buffer and check my primer depth.

 

[MontanaMan]

Ditch the RED (heavy) spring.................IMHO, heavy springs & light buffers / BCG's are not what you want.

If the guns is gassed right a softer spring will work better.

If there is a big difference in your ammo, it may take separate gas adjustments as well.

The primers should cause the problems you're having with ejection; as you describe the primer situation, I'd be more concerned about slam fires which would be perceived as doubles. A heavier spring, combined with a light buffer & BCG would be in the direction of slam fires as the closing velocity of the bolt would be increased, relatively

MM

 

[Ape_Factory]

Ditch the RED (heavy) spring.................IMHO, heavy springs & light buffers / BCG's are not what you want.

If the guns is gassed right a softer spring will work better.

If there is a big difference in your ammo, it may take separate gas adjustments as well.

The primers should cause the problems you're having with ejection; as you describe the primer situation, I'd be more concerned about slam fires which would be perceived as doubles. A heavier spring, combined with a light buffer & BCG would be in the direction of slam fires as the closing velocity of the bolt would be increased, relatively

MM

Yes, had some doubles which does bad things when your trying to get groupings and not expecting it. I went into single round in the magazine subsequently and the bolt locked back with every single weight from 50gr to 77TMK's (bad ass bullet right there btw but most know this!).

All of the doubles are with the PMC brass. I worked up 30 rounds of Lake City with a Nosler 52gr Custom Comp bullet with a fairly mild load to use as a mechanical troubleshooting cartridge if I had to work on the gas, etc...none of those slam fired.

Here's a photo of the back end of a slam fire case. Note the primer is now protruding, no dimple.


Photo of a primed PMC case. I know it's really hard to tell anything from a photo without physical measurements.



Lake City


I'll go back to the Strike Industries flatwire spring as the gun worked well with it and no slam fires that I can think of. I'll add weight to the buffer as well and then retune the gas.

I did not have any issues at all with the .308 rounds I primed with the same Lyman primer with an RCBS shell holder (obviously a different shell holder but same brand). I loaded those up five at a time and went to town. Running CCI large rifle in those in an off the shelf lightweight AR10 rifle with a "full weight" BCG and whatever buffer/spring they specified and their adjustable gas block.

And before I forget, really appreciate the help and feedback from everyone. It's a bit of a pain getting this sorted but a whole lot of fun at the same time.

 

[Ape_Factory]

One other thing I noticed tonight..worked up the tail end of an LC 5.56 shell and a PMC .223 shell. The LC's have already been swaged but I reamed it anyway and then unified it. Did the same to the PMC and the unifier never reaches a majority of the bottom of the primer pocket. You can sit there and let it spin forever (RCBS case prep center) and it'll do a ring around the outside and nothing more. On the LC, it unifies the entire bottom, removing material from the flash hole to the primer pocket wall.

Still, the PMC stuff doesn't have a crimp and even if you didn't ream/unify the primer pocket, it should still accept a CCI primer no problem.

Conversely, PMC .308 you'd think I had been mining for gold dust. Takes out lots of material off the bottom of the primer pocket. And again, zero issues with the .308 today.

 

[hlee]

Your slam fires are orthogonal to your other issues. Troubleshoot the rifle AND troubleshoot your reloading.

Run the pad of your finger across the primer after seating. Your finger is actually really good a quickly telling you if you have a high primer. It is pretty easy to feel that a primer is set just beneath flush with case.

 

[Snuby642]

The only problem I found with pmc brass is the flash holes are not always centered.

I use a universal depriming die and sometimes have to spin the case 1/4 turn.

 

[Ape_Factory]

They actually feel flush to me but I'm getting a second opinion from an experienced reloader tomorrow.

 

[Ape_Factory]

The only problem I found with pmc brass is the flash holes are not always centered.

I use a universal depriming die and sometimes have to spin the case 1/4 turn.

Interesting! I actually noticed the LC brass was like that. Off center often but mine came to me already deprimed, annealed and swaged so I didn't run into issue. Once I get enough PMC shot, I'll take a look again when processing to see if I notice. The 308 PMC seems to be pretty good though and I fully processed all of it from start to finish myself.

 

[Snuby642]

If you have problems with using a touch method of checking primers like I do I use a pice of 2 inch thick 8x8 inch chunk of polished granite.

Set rounds down, wigglers are self evident.

Sucks being old some times.

 

[Snuby642]

Cci 400 primers, thousands loaded and no slam fires to date in all kinds of brass.

Pimers checked for flush.
Bcg and firing pin cleaned using a tool that scrapes off carbon.

Don't do many mag dumps anymore though. Lol

I have never seen a primer look like that slam fire picture.

 

[Ape_Factory]

BCG is new and has a special coating, including the firing pin. Wipes right off but my current habit is to clean/lube after each outing if I shoot more than 100 rounds until the gun has settled in. We did look at the firing pin but I'll take a closer look today. I'm still leaning towards the primers being too high for a yet unknown reason and it possibly being exacerbated by the buffer/spring/BCG combo.

I will definitely not be doing any mag dumps!

 

[Ape_Factory]

Update. I got the sense, after disassembling and examining several cartridges plus my Lyman primer seater that the issue lies with the seating process.

I am using the Lyman hand-held EZ prime and chose it over it's mostly metal construction. My shell holders are both RCBS, #10 for the 223 and #3 for 308. I notice a fair bit of play on the .223 with the shell inserted into the RCBS shell holder. It would physically lift the case up when I squeezed the handle all the way.

On a whim I ordered a Hornady shell holder for .223 and got it overnight (thanks Amazon) and there's less play. As a result, the primer was ever so slightly deeper. I could barely tell using my digits. My neighbor loaned me his backup primer, an older Hornady hand-held. That combined with the Hornady shell holder (doesn't work with RCBS shell holders) did the trick. The primer is now recessed and I can feel it, easily, with my fingers and see it with my eyes. Takes a bit of a squeeze to get it there.

As for the primer becoming an "outie" instead of an "innie" I can only think the bolt face slamming against the primer, with the firing pin not forward, caused the metal to flow into the firing pin hole. That's my very uneducated guess. I have yet to come across a photo in the internet of a similar-looking primer.

Going to cross-post some of this in the reloading section and see if others have had issues with the Lyman.

So on the buffer/spring combo, I have a bit of a conundrum. Except for the slam fires, which hlee kindly pointed out were not related but could intersect, it cycled fine. The gas block is about halfway to full open, unrestricted. My goal would be to make the rifle as soft-shooting as possible with whatever load I develop and not beat the gun up.

Right now there's one load with Hornady Match 68gr bullets that had far and away the least amount of recoil. Noticeably better by a mile with a really good grouping. Would going to a heavier buffer and lighter spring combo help or should I try the heavier buffer first? My gas system is mid-length and as I said earlier, it's a lightweight bolt carrier group, not a standard weight. It's 7.8 ounces vs. a mil-spec which if memory serves me correctly, is in the 11oz range.
Link: https://rubbercityarmory.com/produc...omplete-bcg-w-pof-roller-cam-pin-m16-profile/

 

[Snuby642]

Really just have to try it with the rest of the components you have.

When you have 2 apposing adjustable ends and varying ammo in the middle it could take a while.

I suggest you take notes and keep them in a binder with loads or balistics.

Seems most mnfg's have large gas ports to run weak loads.

My carbine gas setup with a standard bcg and h2 buffer will tweek loads and cycling different than yours with the agb.

Pick a buffer setup and adjust block in 1/4 turn incraments write it down and go to the next major load.

By the time you get to the end you will probably get a feel for it and be able to run without a book but it is a good reference for at least that upper.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Really just have to try it with the rest of the components you have.

When you have 2 apposing adjustable ends and varying ammo in the middle it could take a while.

I suggest you take notes and keep them in a binder with loads or balistics.

Seems most mnfg's have large gas ports to run weak loads.

My carbine gas setup with a standard bcg and h2 buffer will tweek loads and cycling different than yours with the agb.

Pick a buffer setup and adjust block in 1/4 turn incraments write it down and go to the next major load.

By the time you get to the end you will probably get a feel for it and be able to run without a book but it is a good reference for at least that upper.

Agreed. I do have a nice thick notebook for each cartridge I'm loading but I haven't taken any details down on the cycling, mostly because it's been solid. I can definitely feel the heavier, hotter rounds for the most part but they're not worlds apart from the lighter stuff.

 

[Snuby642]

I don't notice recoil difference at the shoulder much but running a scope I can see it in how far the retical moves and tweek to flatten that .

 

[Ape_Factory]

Interesting...yeah I was paying attention to that but didn't think to take notes on it. Details! I am running a 1-8X scope. Next time out.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Fwiw
I like to tune my rifle to run any type of ammo without a hiccup, including steel case tula. It really shouldn't be that picky unless it's some sort of precision comp rifle tuned to specific ammo.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

The slam fires sound like a spring problem, with the way the primer is. The spring is too heavy for the lightweight BCG and buffer and it’s throwing the BCG and firing pin forward. Back down the spring weight or increase buffer and BCG mass to slow the forward slam.

I don’t understand people wanting to run leightweight BCGs with heavy buffers... kinda defeats the purpose IMO

 

[Snuby642]

Kind of like opening a agb to run everything.

Could just run a standard gb.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Kind of like opening a agb to run everything.

Could just run a standard gb.

Probably better off in some cases.

 

[Ape_Factory]

The slam fires sound like a spring problem, with the way the primer is. The spring is too heavy for the lightweight BCG and buffer and it’s throwing the BCG and firing pin forward. Back down the spring weight or increase buffer and BCG mass to slow the forward slam.

I don’t understand people wanting to run leightweight BCGs with heavy buffers... kinda defeats the purpose IMO

Somehow I lost my reply to this. But yes I agree, I really had no desire to add a LW BCG and then run a heavy buffer even if it is moving the weight towards your own center mass. I only went with the heavier spring and no-weight buffer based off of 2A's recommendation here where they say in the notes section; "2A Armament recommends a slightly heavier buffer spring (Sprinco "red" tactical spring) and a lighter weight buffer (mil-spec buffer with weights removed) for best performance when using the AR15 Titanium RBC." https://www.2a-arms.com/product-p/2a-lwtibcg-a-blk-ion-bond.htm

Now their titanium BCG is 1.85oz. heavier than the RCA titanium BCG. So I guess it makes sense to run a slightly heavier buffer.

The Odin Works adjustable buffer comes with three aluminum and stainless steel weights along with one tungsten and I can go from 2.1 to 4.2oz with it. So I could just add one or two aluminum and go back to the softer spring and see if it makes a difference. I'll just have to test and test again.


From what I can remember, the gun was ejecting at about 3 O'Clock. Didn't check last time as I was using a brass catcher but I'll do so next time out. Gas block is halfway open in restrictive mode, mid-length gas system. I wish I'd measured the gas port but alas I did not. It's a Faxon match-grade 416R black nitrided barrel with a 223 wylde chamber and so far, it shoots exceptionally well so I'm excited to get the entire setup dialed in.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Somehow I lost my reply to this. But yes I agree, I really had no desire to add a LW BCG and then run a heavy buffer even if it is moving the weight towards your own center mass. I only went with the heavier spring and no-weight buffer based off of 2A's recommendation here where they say in the notes section; "2A Armament recommends a slightly heavier buffer spring (Sprinco "red" tactical spring) and a lighter weight buffer (mil-spec buffer with weights removed) for best performance when using the AR15 Titanium RBC." https://www.2a-arms.com/product-p/2a-lwtibcg-a-blk-ion-bond.htm

Now their titanium BCG is 1.85oz. heavier than the RCA titanium BCG. So I guess it makes sense to run a slightly heavier buffer.

The Odin Works adjustable buffer comes with three aluminum and stainless steel weights along with one tungsten and I can go from 2.1 to 4.2oz with it. So I could just add one or two aluminum and go back to the softer spring and see if it makes a difference. I'll just have to test and test again.


From what I can remember, the gun was ejecting at about 3 O'Clock. Didn't check last time as I was using a brass catcher but I'll do so next time out. Gas block is halfway open in restrictive mode, mid-length gas system. I wish I'd measured the gas port but alas I did not. It's a Faxon match-grade 416R black nitrided barrel with a 223 wylde chamber and so far, it shoots exceptionally well so I'm excited to get the entire setup dialed in.

I have the RCA Ti BCG. I run it with a JP silent capture spring with the lightest (or second lightest, I don't recall) spring, adjustable gas block, and the minimum of weights. I've never had an issue cycling any ammo of any weight, but it is a race gun and gets cleaned regularly. I highly recommend the JP spring kit. It's quiet and it works.

The spring and weights should be tuned to each other so that it feeds into battery smoothly, and the gas adjusted so that it cycles back fully. I don't really watch ejection, since, as I think you noticed, as you adjust the gas, the brass exits differently and tends to hit on things like brass deflectors and the edge of the ejection port...

ETA: I tend to think of the Buffer/BCG weight as one unit, since that's how it behaves, and that's how it matched to the spring. Thus, I went trying to reduce both masses to the minimum with a minimum of spring. In that context, I'm still not sure the 2AA rec makes the best sense, but i guess they need a rec that will cycle into battery for every configuration - so that checks from a manufacturer.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Make sure your firing pin and FP channel are clean. Do not lube the dickens out of it or you will get slam fires. Clean it, condition it, don't lube it.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Hmm, ok makes sense. Lighter spring is going back in and I'll mess with the buffer weights at the range once I settle on bullet weights and loads. I'll take another look at the JP stuff too. You go in with one problem and come out with another.

I did have some migration of lube to the firing pin and my buddy thought that might be one of many contributing factors. I've since cleaned it off. I tend to put lube on the outside of the carrier in the spots where it normally rubs along with the cam pin, maybe a bit more than normal when brand new and scale it back from there.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Update. So far I've changed the following:
-Seated the primers slightly below flush, it's visible to the naked eye and to the touch.
-Went back to the weaker spring
-Added two of the aluminum buffer weights to the buffer (not much weight change, I know).
-Wiped the BCG down and did not re-lube it. It has a DLC coating to begin with.

I loaded up 15 more rounds of the PMC brass with the 52gr Nosler, 3 different powder charges, all on the light side. Did 15 more of the Hornady 68gr, same deal.

My get the gun working ammo is a Nosler 52gr with, 23gr of H335 in LC cases. Brass ejected dead on at 3 O'clock. Gun cycles and locks open on empty mag. No issues there.

On my second set of five with the Noslers, I had a slam fire. I pulled the buffer and added one more aluminum weight. Happened again when I moved over to the Hornady 68gr. loads. It does not happen every time, very sporadic. But I had an LEO training in the next range over so I started single loading out of an abundance of caution and I was the mostly the only one at the rifle range.

I'm headed back tomorrow morning. Going to load up some cheap stuff with PMC and then Lake City brass. I don't think I've had a slam fire yet with the LC which is peculiar and it may be a red herring/nothing burger. I'll swap in one of the steel weights and keep adding weight until it stops or I run out of ammunition. If I can't get it to stop, going to take a look at other things, maybe the firing pin length.

Primers are CCI 400's and I know a lot of folks use them successfully in AR's. Maybe I'm not so lucky. Maybe with the shortage the QC isn't there and they're pumping them out as fast as they can. Dunno. Grasping at this point until I can start testing with more buffer weight tomorrow morning. Going to be really frustrating if I end up running a full-weight buffer (or greater). Then again, gives me an excuse to spend money on a lightweight lower and titanium bits.

I know trigger issues can cause this but I'm using a drop-in Velocity trigger and I had it in there prior to the lightweight BCG with hundreds of rounds through it and no slam fires.

 

[Snuby642]

After all this I think I'll just keep running standard bcg's and conventional buffers in varying weights.

It seems like many threads of trouble revolve around adjustable buffers.

Have you tried the bleed off mode on the agb?

And yes dump the aluminum buffer weights for steel or ti.

Some place has to be a sweet spot unless the bcg has a defect ?

 

[Ape_Factory]

Unfortunately I didn't get to the range this morning for more testing like I'd hoped.

I have not tried bleed off mode yet mostly as the gun is cycling like it should, the few slam fires aside.

I did load up some dummy rounds last night and dropped the bolt on them repeatedly using the bolt release in an attempt to get a "slam fire" from the bolt closing. No dice. Couldn't get the primer to fire despite having the ubiquitous AR dent from the bolt closing. I'm actually starting to believe it may be my trigger control and I'm getting bump fires from "pulling" the trigger as the gun recoils and my finger, remaining stationary, activates the trigger again.

I would think if it were a BCG/buffer issue, the gun wouldn't cycle correctly most of the time or lock back on an empty magazine. That hasn't been the case. It's cycled everything from 52 to 77 grain bullets with varying powder loads and it's ejecting dead on at 3pm. When breaking the gun in after assembly, I went through at least 100 rounds with no slam fires but I wasn't shooting for groups per se. I'm wondering if trying to get groups, my trigger grip is lighter, trying not to influence the shot. On the 308, I just tend to grip everything more firmly as it's simply a more powerful rifle with stronger recoil.

I checked the trigger last night, taking the upper off and going through the motions and listening to everything reset. No problems there.

So tomorrow, hopefully, I'll concentrate on pulling the trigger like I mean it and holding it there. Going to shoot some high speed video to see if there's any bolt bounce contributing to this.

 

[Ape_Factory]

One question on trigger function. Since I'm using a drop-in trigger, I'm not worried about spring orientation. When I check function, I get all the appropriate clicks. I cock the hammer, pull the trigger and keep it depressed. I pull the hammer back and it clicks. I release the trigger slowly and I get another click with the disconnector now interfacing with the hammer.

Here's the BUT. If I pull on the hammer, it'll release from the disconnector if pulled hard enough, gripping the hammer on either side with two fingers. I go over to my POF Revolution DI, also a drop in trigger, and try to do the same, it won't budge. The side of the lower receiver comes up further on the POF so I can't get as good a purchase on the hammer like I can on the AR15 though. I'm thinking I may have a weak disconnector to hammer interface? Or is this normal?

 

[Snuby642]

Do you shoot handgun comps? Idpa ect?

I had a little subconscious trigger finger action going on.

I took a 10/22 and shot at racks .
I forced myself to wait till the plate locked on the other side before I let up on my trigger press.

Rso stared at me for a while.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I think it's pretty much trigger control. I shot 40 or 50 rounds yesterday, making a conscious effort to hold the trigger and only release it well after the shot. No double fires. The one time I wasn't concentrating, I got a double fire. I'm not sure if this is a "feature" of this trigger or what.

I"m still not convinced you should physically be able to separate a cocked hammer from a disconnector with finger strength. I've reached out to Velocity Triggers to see if this is normal.

 

[Snuby642]

After years of shotgun shooting and fast pistol shots I had to learn to run a rifle trigger as a conscious process not a given.

I was not getting doubles on my ar's but accuracy suffered.

Good you figured it out.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Yep, I'm going to need to train myself. Not sure why I don't have the same effect on my POF though. I may just switch to that trigger so I have the same setup on both rifles.

 

[Snuby642]

That would be nice to have triggers that match, consistency.

Just to compleatly close the case on it being just the trigger, swap them both for a test.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I think it's pretty much trigger control. I shot 40 or 50 rounds yesterday, making a conscious effort to hold the trigger and only release it well after the shot. No double fires. The one time I wasn't concentrating, I got a double fire. I'm not sure if this is a "feature" of this trigger or what.

I"m still not convinced you should physically be able to separate a cocked hammer from a disconnector with finger strength. I've reached out to Velocity Triggers to see if this is normal.

Something doesn't sound right with the trigger.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I wrote to Velocity but haven't had a response yet. Strangely, I tested the trigger again, trying to separate the hammer from the disconnector using finger strength and could not do it. I'll eat some spinach tomorrow and try again. Still going to swap the POF trigger in there, just to see.

 

[Snuby642]

It wouldn't take much trash in the wrong place to cause that.

One good thing about a non enclosed (standard) trigger easy to flush out and inspect.

I need to learn how to work on triggers.