Hey guys. Ive been less able to run to the range and shoot my dedicated long guns at distance. Thus, Ive placed a CZ 457 MTR on order for hopes of being able to shoot more often since I have access to 0-300 yards more easily than 300+ yard ranges. I am fairly new to rimfire and wonder what ammo to include in my initial test. I see some comments of not to shoot subsonic because of the drop-(DUH) but others saying to shoot subsonic match ammo. As I said Im fairly need to the rimfire world and looking for a handful of ammo to test out. I have heard about the new SK long range but it seems to be limited availability for the most part. If any of you have a 457 MTR, what ammo is running best in yours? Thanks for the help in advance. Look forward to getting out and shooting here soon.
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CZ 457 Ammo
- Thread starter BigRed308
- Start date
CCi SV, SK Standard+, SK Rifle Match, SK Pistol Match, Wolf Match & Match Extra, Lapua Center-X, Lapua Midas +, RWS R-50, and Eley Tenex are good starting points.
It's luck of the draw finding good lots that work in your particular barrel.... lot to lot variation, the nemesis of rimfire. It's a great challenge but certainly requires patience and understanding compared to centerfire.
It's luck of the draw finding good lots that work in your particular barrel.... lot to lot variation, the nemesis of rimfire. It's a great challenge but certainly requires patience and understanding compared to centerfire.
Good strategy
I've kept the empty boxes and test targets of all my initial test ammo, for lot numbers and a progressive timeline.
I was looking through my test targets today and they reminded me how much of a value CCI SV is. It seems to shoot well in a lot of different rifles and pistols.
I probably wouldn’t run anything like Velocitors or Stingers through your match chamber, but those are hunting ammos, so not sure why you’d use them anyway.
Others have given an excellent starting point. For long-range work, use subsonics. Some disagree, but most (including the guys at Lapua) agree that using subs avoids the transonic zone, which can upset stability. But rimfire is cheap, so try a bunch of different brands/types and see what it likes!
Others have given an excellent starting point. For long-range work, use subsonics. Some disagree, but most (including the guys at Lapua) agree that using subs avoids the transonic zone, which can upset stability. But rimfire is cheap, so try a bunch of different brands/types and see what it likes!
What subsonic loads would you recommend?
Edit: is subsonic 22lr ammo below 1,100 FPS. Wouldn’t most of the ammo listed above be considered subsonic?
Compare actual results and decide for yourself
50 shot groups at 200 yards...all varieties of rimfire
Listed by brand and type with chrony numbers and target results
www.rimfirecentral.com
50 shot groups at 200 yards...all varieties of rimfire
Listed by brand and type with chrony numbers and target results
50 at 200
I think I've come up with a useful scenario...maybe. :rolleyes: 50 shots at 200 yards, rimfire, whatever setup makes you happy. 22lr, 17 hmr, 22wmr, 17hm2, 17wsm, all brands, all types. Full benchrest setup, bipod, bags or one-piece test rest, it doesn't matter. Grab a chunk of cardboard, about...
www.rimfirecentral.com
In general I have found that most high velocity ammo will not shoot well. I have tested quite a few different brands of rimfire ammo and the happy medium I have found of price vs accuracy has been Wolf Match Extra and the SK Match ammo. You can usually find those for $60-70 for a brick of 500. Sometimes you can get lucky with the CCI SV which can be had for around $25 a brick. For it I would buy a few boxes of 50 and try it out. If it shoots go back and load up on the lot that shoots. One thing I have found is that when I change ammo brands I need to shoot at least 5 rounds of the new ammo for the rifle to settle in. The first 4-5 rounds are usually all over the place so don’t base your evaluation on those.
I will start my testing this week and update you guys. The rifle came with a test printout of lapua x-act. Interesting, since I was under the beliefs x-act was discontinued. Either way, x-act has been marketed as a short range ammo so it is not of interest to me.
Since I've been shooting them, no one has placed better than middle of the pack with any HV ammo at our local rimfire match (targets 50-150 yards). Top scoring shooters here are shooting Lapua CenterX...
And Eley offerings...
And SK offerings...
And CCI SV...
And, probably others as well.
At last month's match, top 2 were shooting CenterX. The next 3 were shooting CCI. The point differential between first and 5th was 5 points. We can tell you what shoots well in our rifles (CenterX for me). Only you can tell us what shoots on your gun. You're on the right track. Don't discount the cheap stuff, because your gun may shoot it well. But, don't avoid the expensive stuff, because you may need to reset the definition of "shoot it well..."
And Eley offerings...
And SK offerings...
And CCI SV...
And, probably others as well.
At last month's match, top 2 were shooting CenterX. The next 3 were shooting CCI. The point differential between first and 5th was 5 points. We can tell you what shoots well in our rifles (CenterX for me). Only you can tell us what shoots on your gun. You're on the right track. Don't discount the cheap stuff, because your gun may shoot it well. But, don't avoid the expensive stuff, because you may need to reset the definition of "shoot it well..."
Is them referring to the 457 or rimfire in general?
I certainly won't discount the cheap stuff. In an ideal world, I would love for it to shoot CCI SV the best for the wallets sake. However, I know I won't settle with just blah accuracy. Especially since I want to try to get this rifle out past 300 yards.
Them being rimfire matches. Every match there are a couple of guys shooting HV ammo. I’ve never seen one not have a number of WTF errant shots on relatively easy stages. Shots- for example- where the wind is blowing right to left and they are impacting feet right of the target. Shots that are so far off target I hesitate to call a correction. I don’t know why all match quality rimfire ammo is subsonic- there are competing theories- but i do know that all match quality rimfire ammo is subsonic.
I took cci sv ammo to my first match and hit ~50 of 80 targets. The next match I went to I took Lapua centerx ammo and missed 3 of 78 targets. This last match I had my worst showing since switching to centerx, dropping 8 of 78 targets (4 on one stage). I’m not saying that it’s centerx or nothing for rimfire, just that you need to find out what shoots in your gun. At 200 yards, the vertical dispersion of the cci ammo was roughly 2x larger than that of centerx. YMMV...
I took cci sv ammo to my first match and hit ~50 of 80 targets. The next match I went to I took Lapua centerx ammo and missed 3 of 78 targets. This last match I had my worst showing since switching to centerx, dropping 8 of 78 targets (4 on one stage). I’m not saying that it’s centerx or nothing for rimfire, just that you need to find out what shoots in your gun. At 200 yards, the vertical dispersion of the cci ammo was roughly 2x larger than that of centerx. YMMV...
Wolf Match Extra in the CZ 457 MTR was all over the place yesterday afternoon when the temperature was much higher than previously shooting. Not even close to 1 MOA at 50 yards with some rounds over 2 MOA. Over half were right were they should be and not quite half were dispersed. Thinking it might be me getting tired, I went ahead and swapped to the Tikka T1X and shot this with the same box (not just brick) of ammo:
I also had someone else shoot the MTR with the same results. What's interesting is that I was gathering ballistics data from the LabRadar and could correlate speed to the wild shots. Anything much over 1125 starting becoming an issue. Here's the numbers for 59 shots out of the MTR using Wolf Match Extra:
Stats - Average 1123.72 fps
Stats - Highest 1157.25 fps
Stats - Lowest 1105.59 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 51.66 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 12.49 fps
Here's the numbers from the Tikka T1X finishing off the same box and another box from the same brick totaling 69 shots reported:
Stats - Average 1078.8 fps
Stats - Highest 1107.6 fps
Stats - Lowest 963.47 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 144.13 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 22.36 fps
Note - there were 2 shots in the T1X series that had low values (mid 900's) and a very bad signal-to-noise ratio (untrustworthy data). If you remove them the values are:
Stats - Average 1082.3 fps
Stats - Highest 1107.6 fps
Stats - Lowest 1055.0 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 52.6 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.77 fps
As you can see from the numbers, the MTR is 41 fps faster on average than the T1X with the same Wolf Match Extra ammo. Just for grins, these are the numbers from my custom 10/22 (16.5 inch Feddersen barrel) using the same ammo:
Stats - Average 1082.5 fps
Stats - Highest 1104.65 fps
Stats - Lowest 1066.2 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 38.44 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.12 fps
Notice how they are pretty close to the (corrected) T1X numbers with it's 20 inch barrel? The 10/22 was grouping slightly smaller than the T1X. I attribute this to the Kidd 2-stage (8 ounce/8 ounce) trigger.
Could the match chamber in the MTR create a 40 fps speed increase alone or is there likely another factor causing the Wolf ME to be faster in the MTR over the T1X?
I also had someone else shoot the MTR with the same results. What's interesting is that I was gathering ballistics data from the LabRadar and could correlate speed to the wild shots. Anything much over 1125 starting becoming an issue. Here's the numbers for 59 shots out of the MTR using Wolf Match Extra:
Stats - Average 1123.72 fps
Stats - Highest 1157.25 fps
Stats - Lowest 1105.59 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 51.66 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 12.49 fps
Here's the numbers from the Tikka T1X finishing off the same box and another box from the same brick totaling 69 shots reported:
Stats - Average 1078.8 fps
Stats - Highest 1107.6 fps
Stats - Lowest 963.47 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 144.13 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 22.36 fps
Note - there were 2 shots in the T1X series that had low values (mid 900's) and a very bad signal-to-noise ratio (untrustworthy data). If you remove them the values are:
Stats - Average 1082.3 fps
Stats - Highest 1107.6 fps
Stats - Lowest 1055.0 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 52.6 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.77 fps
As you can see from the numbers, the MTR is 41 fps faster on average than the T1X with the same Wolf Match Extra ammo. Just for grins, these are the numbers from my custom 10/22 (16.5 inch Feddersen barrel) using the same ammo:
Stats - Average 1082.5 fps
Stats - Highest 1104.65 fps
Stats - Lowest 1066.2 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 38.44 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 9.12 fps
Notice how they are pretty close to the (corrected) T1X numbers with it's 20 inch barrel? The 10/22 was grouping slightly smaller than the T1X. I attribute this to the Kidd 2-stage (8 ounce/8 ounce) trigger.
Could the match chamber in the MTR create a 40 fps speed increase alone or is there likely another factor causing the Wolf ME to be faster in the MTR over the T1X?
I haven't checked the bore diameter in my MTR, but did try to find a pilot bushing for my EPS reamer that would enter the bore of a 457 American sporter bbl while I was dinking around with it in an attempt to get better accuracy out of that bbl. While the bore diameter of the Benchmark, Krieger, and Lilja .22RF bbls I've fitted & chambered have been right around .217" (the Lilja was a titebore, with a bore dia of under .216"), from what I've read over on RFC, CZ's hammer forged bbls typically have a bore dia of only .211"-.212", which would explain why none of the pilot bushings I've bought for the EPS reamer would even come close in entering the bore of the American's bbl. I don't recall chronographing any ammo out of the American, but have chrono'd several different brands & grades of SV match ammo out of the MTR, and got higher velocity out of all of them, relative to the avg vel I've recorded out of the Kriegers & Bartlein on my 40XB & V-22s. My best guess as to why is the tighter bore dia of the MTR's bbl., as the chambers of the custom rifles on my rifles are at least as tight as that of the MTR.
Variations in muzzle velocity?
Chamber dimensions, barrrel/bore diameter/finish/length, primer/powder variations
brass differences including volume/hardness/dimensions, bullet shape/dimension/weight/lube
and atmospheric conditions like pressure and temperature...did I forget anything?
Chamber dimensions, barrrel/bore diameter/finish/length, primer/powder variations
brass differences including volume/hardness/dimensions, bullet shape/dimension/weight/lube
and atmospheric conditions like pressure and temperature...did I forget anything?
From my limited experience, it's not unusual for multiple rifles to have roughly the same speed when using the same ammo. For instance the Savage B22 FV-SR with a 16-inch barrel and Savage B22 FV with a 21-inch barrel are within 10 FPS average in velocity when shooting the same lot of ammo. If you take out the extreme values in the series, that number comes down significantly.
Since I was shooting ammo from the same box (not just the same lot or brick) and without any drastic weather changes (according to the Kestrel), none of these should apply.
From what I've seen out of other 22 rifles in the past, I would guess that it would be negligible and too small to quantify. A Thompson/Center Encore with a Match Grade Machine 16.25 inch barrel offset bore (to strike the rim in the correct location) has the strongest strike of any rimfire rifle I've owned. Using the same ammo as the custom 10/22, you can't know which of the 2 will have the slightly higher velocity over a 50-round average. They are that close.
I was shooting ammo from the same box, none of these should apply.
Bill, you have better luck with rimfire than I do.
I have to use a chronograph to explain all the high and low strays.
Every range trip that chrony is out front so I can determine if it was the cartridge or me.
I get boxes of Tenex with 45 to 55 fps ES and Biathlon with 70 fps plus.
I've reached the point where when a shot hits high or low, I check the chrony display first,
to verify that it was the mv difference that caused the stray, and not me.
In most cases I can hear the difference and know to expect a flyer.
Bill, you have better luck with rimfire than I do.
I have to use a chronograph to explain all the high and low strays.
Every range trip that chrony is out front so I can determine if it was the cartridge or me.
I get boxes of Tenex with 45 to 55 fps ES and Biathlon with 70 fps plus.
I've reached the point where when a shot hits high or low, I check the chrony display first,
to verify that it was the mv difference that caused the stray, and not me.
In most cases I can hear the difference and know to expect a flyer.
Correct... as what we're looking at is averages rather than single round velocities. 1 box was split between rifles but I also used another half box from the same brick to get in excess of 50 rounds calculate the average FPS per rifle. I considered 25 rounds inadaquate to get a reliable average for my results.
Did a little testing today once the winds died down. Rifle hated SK rifle match. CCI SV did okay, if this were a cheaper rifle like my 10/22s I’d call it acceptable accuracy, then SK standard plus, finally wrapping up the top place was Lapua Center-X. Still wrapping everything up, but will provide details to follow
justin - This past winter and so far this spring it's been so wet & sloppy out here that I started shooting down an abandoned concrete feedlot alley with concrete feedbunks on both sides - it was the only solid ground that I could set up bench or mat and targets to shoot on. Prior to this, I'd always shot out in the open with foam ear plugs, and to be able to hear anything but major differences in report/velocity wasn't possible, especially while shooting suppressed. But with the concrete bunks reflecting sound back, it was very easy to predict impact at 210yds based on sound alone, even with a suppressor mounted. This isn't news to any of you who've shot indoors, but it was kind of a revelation to me. Once it warmed up enough to stay out long enough to make it worthwhile to set up the chronograph, the relationship between report, chrono reading, and impact on target became even more obvious. One of the most glaring examples of this was a particular lot of Lapua Polar Biathlon that I'd bought 2000rds of. I'd seen a lot of vertical out of this lot down on my range in our pasture while shooting it out of 40Xs & V-22 at 200, but out in the wide-open of that range, shooting suppressed, with ear plugs, I hadn't noticed much other than the fact that this higher-priced ammo (relative to SK Rifle & Pistol Match I'd been shooting) didn't shoot worth a hoot. Once I'd shot some of it down that concrete alley, I was surprised that there wasn't more ES than the 55fps the chronograph recorded. The difference in the report of just 10rd strings was very marked, and there was no surprise in seeing vertical spreads of 12" at 210yds. No surprise - but plenty of disappointment. If nothing else, I learned an important lesson - never buy expensive ammo in quantity until after you've had an opportunity to test samples. I blew almost $600 on that batch of Polar, and would've been much better off to have spent that money on a case of a good lot of SK Std+.
I see so many shooters who've just invested in a new V-22 talking about buying beau coup brands & grades of ammo to test, and it reminds me of doing the same thing years ago after buying a few Win 52Ds & Rem 40XBs through the CMP. It's kind of like chasing after a needle in a haystack, doing ammo testing that way, and the chances of finding a good lot of anything by buying so many different types of ammo are not nearly as good as buying samples of several lots of one brand, one grade of ammo. There are a lot of very experienced smallbore shooters here, and they already know this - it's the new guys reading about how accurate a V-22 - or any other popular .22RF rifle for that matter - is, that I'm thinking about. It's no fun when someone drops a bundle on any nice .22RF rifle, and then gets disappointed by the accuracy they get out of it with the hodge-podge of pricey target ammo they've bought to test in it, but it happens. That's one big reason I enjoy seeing some of the more experienced rimfire guys here mentor someone & help them figure it out.
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your valuable input on lot vs. brand ammo testing. That sounds good to me… I'll try to do this on my cz 455.
But...
How to get different lots of ammo of the same brand?
And how to buy back 5000x of that good lot you find during testing?
When I buy online ammo, no one offers me lot numbers to choose from… so what garanties me I'll get the same lot on my next purchase?
Then, when I finish my 5000x lot, it means I have to chase another lot again?
On the same topic, but more indept info...
What are the critical control point on ammo fabrication that influence consistency of the product, at the point where the difference in the lots influences the results on MV/SD/ES and then so on target?
Is it simply variation in the powder quality/quantity?
There is more than that I would guess.
I shoot 22LR since 2 years now. I first bought a savage 12-FV-SR, then I decided to upgrade to the CZ 455 Varmint barrel... now I come on that forum to see what could justify my desire of buying the 457 MTR with a match grade barrel.
I do not have the answer yet... Is it really worth it? Can I buy accuracy? Really?
Or can my 455 do the job of consistent 1/2 inch at 50 yard?
Is the sub moa match grade barrel form CZ a marketing thing?
Martin from Québec
Thanks to all of you!
Thanks for your valuable input on lot vs. brand ammo testing. That sounds good to me… I'll try to do this on my cz 455.
But...
How to get different lots of ammo of the same brand?
And how to buy back 5000x of that good lot you find during testing?
When I buy online ammo, no one offers me lot numbers to choose from… so what garanties me I'll get the same lot on my next purchase?
Then, when I finish my 5000x lot, it means I have to chase another lot again?
On the same topic, but more indept info...
What are the critical control point on ammo fabrication that influence consistency of the product, at the point where the difference in the lots influences the results on MV/SD/ES and then so on target?
Is it simply variation in the powder quality/quantity?
There is more than that I would guess.
I shoot 22LR since 2 years now. I first bought a savage 12-FV-SR, then I decided to upgrade to the CZ 455 Varmint barrel... now I come on that forum to see what could justify my desire of buying the 457 MTR with a match grade barrel.
I do not have the answer yet... Is it really worth it? Can I buy accuracy? Really?
Or can my 455 do the job of consistent 1/2 inch at 50 yard?
Is the sub moa match grade barrel form CZ a marketing thing?
Martin from Québec
Thanks to all of you!
CZ makes a 15 mm guaranee at 50m. I'm getting 11mm max (unless I yank a shot) , often down to 8-9mm.
well the i am pretty sure the gun can do what they say , whether or not you can shoot sub moa groups is another matter all together . but if you practice enough and learn what others do to shoot sub moa groups I am just as positive you can do it too with enough practice . nothing can make you great at anything except hard work , patience and dedication , just my opinion for however little it's worth .
What are the critical control point on ammo fabrication that influence consistency of the product,
at the point where the difference in the lots influences the results on MV/SD/ES and then so on target?
The same things that affect reloading centerfire.
Consistent primer chemistry, application, location and amount.
Brass hardness, dimensions, crimp tension and case volume.
Powder chemistry and amount.
Bullet symmetry, weight, shape, seating depth and seating angle.
Temperature and humidity at the time the components are manufactured and assembled.
Handling of components during storage, transport and assembly.
Attention to detail, better labeled as quality control on the assembly line.
If the machinery gets out of spec there's no way to obtain consistent product.
Watch the CCI plant tour video.
I cringe when I see how bullets and brass are handled.
No way I'd expect decent results with bullets dumped from bin to bin.
Think of what those impacts are doing to the cannelures and bullet heels.
at the point where the difference in the lots influences the results on MV/SD/ES and then so on target?
The same things that affect reloading centerfire.
Consistent primer chemistry, application, location and amount.
Brass hardness, dimensions, crimp tension and case volume.
Powder chemistry and amount.
Bullet symmetry, weight, shape, seating depth and seating angle.
Temperature and humidity at the time the components are manufactured and assembled.
Handling of components during storage, transport and assembly.
Attention to detail, better labeled as quality control on the assembly line.
If the machinery gets out of spec there's no way to obtain consistent product.
Watch the CCI plant tour video.
I cringe when I see how bullets and brass are handled.
No way I'd expect decent results with bullets dumped from bin to bin.
Think of what those impacts are doing to the cannelures and bullet heels.
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Martin,
I started buying 22RF ammo from Champion's Choice about 20yrs ago, and they're still good to deal with when it comes to testing to find a good lot #. They've been supplying rifles, ammo, & other equipment to competitive smallbore shooters for all the years they've been in business, and they understand what's going on and why shooters want to find a good lot, and then buy it in quantity. There's also Good Shooting, which is just as good or better to deal with, but we're talking companies that are here in the States, not in Canada. I'm sure there are Canadian retailers/wholesalers who are knowledgeable enough to understand what you're asking for & why, I just don't know who they are.
To your question concerning buying one case of good ammo at a time - about the only way around it is to purchase as many cases of that good stuff as you can afford. Be realistic about how much you're going to shoot in a year's time, and let that be your guide. If a case will last you a couple of years, then is it really necessary to buy more? .22RF ammo doesn't always age gracefully - the bullet lube Eley uses will dry out to the point where it flakes off the bullet when ran through a magazine. I don't know how old some Eley Match Xtra was when I bought it at a discounted price from Champion's Choice 10+yrs ago, but it was probably older than what's ideal, and is now well past its prime, as the bullet lube flakes off in a repeater, and to a lesser extent, even when single loaded in a single shot rifle. Point is, it doesn't pay to hoard a good lot of ammo and then not get it shot up before it deteriorates.
I read some valuable info here… Thanks to everyone for your input!
First thing first: I will invest on my skills… I know the fundamentals, but… you know… time and practice makes the difference between knowledge and skills.
I can throw 3 or 4 shot in the same hole, but then a flyer!!! Classic! Is it me or the ammo? I'm still not sure.
I see 22lr as a fun and cheap tool to learn and challenge my-self. So for me, there's no way I'm gonna buy expensive ammo.
Finally, I just ordered a sample pack of SK ammo… and that's probably the top end I will spend on ammo. Lapua, no way! At this price I prefer buy 223. I also ordered a pack of RWS target rifle, one of Eley club and one of Lapua center-X... just to experiment a bit and compare the results, with the mini-mag I use to shoot.
I will show you the results later...
Have a good day everyone!
Martin from Québec
First thing first: I will invest on my skills… I know the fundamentals, but… you know… time and practice makes the difference between knowledge and skills.
I can throw 3 or 4 shot in the same hole, but then a flyer!!! Classic! Is it me or the ammo? I'm still not sure.
I see 22lr as a fun and cheap tool to learn and challenge my-self. So for me, there's no way I'm gonna buy expensive ammo.
Finally, I just ordered a sample pack of SK ammo… and that's probably the top end I will spend on ammo. Lapua, no way! At this price I prefer buy 223. I also ordered a pack of RWS target rifle, one of Eley club and one of Lapua center-X... just to experiment a bit and compare the results, with the mini-mag I use to shoot.
I will show you the results later...
Have a good day everyone!
Martin from Québec
That's a judgment call. I get it.
For me, pursuing consisent accuracy from 22 rimfire has been an immensely fristrating journey. It DOES seem nuts to buy $17 / box of 50 ammo.
Maybe best to maximize your ability with cheap ammo, understanding eventally your skillset will improve to the point its the ammo holding yu back.
Garandman,
I totally understand your point.
You probably were like me at one point in your progression.
My opinion on that could change over time…
I'm at the point where there's a lack of accuracy in my system… and I don't know if it's me, the ammo or the rifle it-self?
So, I'm not gonna change my CZ 455 this year… (I also bought an MDT chassis, a YoDave trigger and a Viper HST 6-24x50)
Best thing I can do is improve my skills, and try different ammo.
That's logic I think… and the most cost effective also!
Life is a journey, stay on target! Ahah!
I totally understand your point.
You probably were like me at one point in your progression.
My opinion on that could change over time…
I'm at the point where there's a lack of accuracy in my system… and I don't know if it's me, the ammo or the rifle it-self?
So, I'm not gonna change my CZ 455 this year… (I also bought an MDT chassis, a YoDave trigger and a Viper HST 6-24x50)
Best thing I can do is improve my skills, and try different ammo.
That's logic I think… and the most cost effective also!
Life is a journey, stay on target! Ahah!
I'm running the 457 MTR now. Back when I had the 455, getting a Lilja bbl and seting up theheadspace properly made a huge diff.
Called Lilja and the 455 and 457 bbl is the same.
Literally tried everything. Lapua Midas + ran best.
Center-× / Eley / SK / RWS / FGMM were all about equal.
CCI SV / Wolf etc pretty crappy.
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