Well i am in need of a better .22 rimfire and it has come down to 2 choices the CZ455 with manners stock or a Anschutz 64 mp R. I am going to use it for some rimfire tactical type comp. say 30 yrd to 200 ish. Any thoughts would be great.
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CZ455 trainer or ANSCHUTZ?
- Thread starter bertshortmag
- Start date
If accuracy is your primary driver then ANZ64 MPR. If you are more concerned with aesthetics or mimicking your centerfire the the CZ 455 is your choice.
I suppose the anschutz would be more accurate out of the box, but the possible future addition of a lilja match barrel on the CZ might change the tables on that.
I do see the appeal of a more tactical manners stock though.
Personally I'm thinking about swapping my CZ 455 varmint for an anschutz 1710 (54 action) when funds permit, but I'm not too worried about the "trainer" ergonomics you would get with the manners stock myself. If I were, I'd probably go manners stock + lilja barrel for the same money.
I do see the appeal of a more tactical manners stock though.
Personally I'm thinking about swapping my CZ 455 varmint for an anschutz 1710 (54 action) when funds permit, but I'm not too worried about the "trainer" ergonomics you would get with the manners stock myself. If I were, I'd probably go manners stock + lilja barrel for the same money.
i faced exactly the same conundrum and went with the Anschutz. It's quite accurate and fun to shoot. The stock however is pretty much a Euro "sporter." It does NOT mimic the ergonomics of my center fire tac rifles (all have T5A or T4As). For me that doesn't matter; the Anschutz really makes me pay attention to my fundamentals, which is what I was aiming for. Trigger pull, cheek weld, grip errors are all magnified by this rifle: what you polish while shooting it translates well to the center fire guns.
I have the CZ 452, Anschutz 64 target and 54 Sporter, 1712. The CZ is close enough to the 64 for the 64 to seem overpriced. Trigger work on the CZ and they are very close in accuracy. The 54 is so accurate very few rimfires are comparable, the 40x for sure. This thread on Rimfire Central addresses your question:
Anschutz 1416 vs CZ 452 - RimfireCentral.com Forums
Anschutz 1416 vs CZ 452 - RimfireCentral.com Forums
CZ and MPR
I've owned a CZ varmint and quite a few Anschutz 64's including a MPR which I have now.
Every Anny I've owned has shot well. That CZ just wouldn't shoot well for me, bad luck I guess???
My MPR had that stupid ejection problem talked about, so I had to do "the fix" Hellbender made a thread about, works great now but is an issue a $$$ rifle shouldn't have to begin with.
The trigger is OK but not my preferred type. On my MPR there isn't much feel between the first stage and second stage, no amount of adjustment fixed it, I had to just get used to it the best I could.
Ergo's are very good on the MPR and it's probably the most accurate 22 I've owned so far. Shot a few low .2's at 50y and a 1" 177Y, all with Wolf MT.
I've owned a CZ varmint and quite a few Anschutz 64's including a MPR which I have now.
Every Anny I've owned has shot well. That CZ just wouldn't shoot well for me, bad luck I guess???
My MPR had that stupid ejection problem talked about, so I had to do "the fix" Hellbender made a thread about, works great now but is an issue a $$$ rifle shouldn't have to begin with.
The trigger is OK but not my preferred type. On my MPR there isn't much feel between the first stage and second stage, no amount of adjustment fixed it, I had to just get used to it the best I could.
Ergo's are very good on the MPR and it's probably the most accurate 22 I've owned so far. Shot a few low .2's at 50y and a 1" 177Y, all with Wolf MT.
Anschutz. (<<<that is a period)
If you can screw, pin, tape, or clamp something on a CZ to make it shoot with an Annie I want to see it. I am not gonna throw my money at that rabbit hole, but feel free if you like. I cut my losses on what ifs and science projects over a year ago. I think the CZ trainers are really nice and I like the CZs a LOT, but only if I can have a second great rimfire.
If you can screw, pin, tape, or clamp something on a CZ to make it shoot with an Annie I want to see it. I am not gonna throw my money at that rabbit hole, but feel free if you like. I cut my losses on what ifs and science projects over a year ago. I think the CZ trainers are really nice and I like the CZs a LOT, but only if I can have a second great rimfire.
Maybe I got lucky, or I just threw enough cash at it that mine worked out? Given, I put a Lilja barrel on mine and had the action pillar bedded into the stock, but mine shoots pretty damn good. I have put 600 rounds of Lapua Center-X through it, and .2-.3" 5 shot groups at 50 are pretty common. When I have averaged out all groups for a shooting session, they generally come in the high .3" to low .4" range.
I haven't had an Anschutz and I do understand they are very consistent performers out of the box, but would I be realistic to expect that if I bought one it would average tighter groups?
After pillar bedding, lilja barrel, different trigger? barrel shimming? and probably some other stuff, you've put plenty of money and effort in it.
I wouldn't expect the anschutz 64 to be better in this case, but out of the box it probably would be. (Maybe a 54 would be slightly better, but I see no reason to upgrade in your case.)
Out of the box my cz455 varmint was shooting around 1.5-2" at 100m with SK match ammo.
After barrel shimming it was more consistent around 1.25-1.5" at 100, same ammo.
I expect Lapua Center-x or similar ammo to bring the groups down another .25" or so. Haven't had a chance to try some yet.
I wouldn't expect the anschutz 64 to be better in this case, but out of the box it probably would be. (Maybe a 54 would be slightly better, but I see no reason to upgrade in your case.)
Out of the box my cz455 varmint was shooting around 1.5-2" at 100m with SK match ammo.
After barrel shimming it was more consistent around 1.25-1.5" at 100, same ammo.
I expect Lapua Center-x or similar ammo to bring the groups down another .25" or so. Haven't had a chance to try some yet.
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My barrel is actually free floated. I haven't spent too much time trying barrel shims, as it seems to like being floated. I have shot groups as small as 0.440" at 100, though I certainly wouldn't make the claim that it is anywhere near consistent in that performance.
You have essentially put enough money into your CZ equal to or greater than the price of an Anz 64MPR, thus you should expect accuracy similar to the Anz 64 for your ROI. I think the Lija barrel route is a great option and I hope to see other custom barrel makers get into this market. A Lija barrel and top tier ammo will certainly get in the neighborhood of an Anz 64. However, out of the box the Anz 64 and CZ455 are not even in the same league accuracy wise. I own several CZ's and they are fine rifles for the money, but cannot compete with a Anz 64 or Win 52 for accuracy.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...n/174848-anschutz-manners-sas-comp-rifle.html
could do something a little more original like I did. best of both worlds.
plenty of used 54 actions out there to start a build on.
Regards,
DT
could do something a little more original like I did. best of both worlds.
plenty of used 54 actions out there to start a build on.
Regards,
DT
I feel the CZ 455 is to rimfire what a remington 700 is to centerfire bolt actions.
Hit or miss in terms of accuracy, but with some work they will rival the high end factory stuff.
Same as with starting with the sps-v and working your way up to a (semi-)custom rig. You COULD go with the AI or sako (rimfire: Anschutz), but not everyone will be able to afford to start there.
I do suspect the manners stock has quite a bit more rigidity than the wood varmint stock I have, so accuracy should be better than most CZ's, but doubt it'll be up there with the anschutz.
Hit or miss in terms of accuracy, but with some work they will rival the high end factory stuff.
Same as with starting with the sps-v and working your way up to a (semi-)custom rig. You COULD go with the AI or sako (rimfire: Anschutz), but not everyone will be able to afford to start there.
I do suspect the manners stock has quite a bit more rigidity than the wood varmint stock I have, so accuracy should be better than most CZ's, but doubt it'll be up there with the anschutz.
Hey man, no need to take it personal. I am just telling you what I know. To be honest I wished I had kept my keyboard shut, after the comments following my post. I can't tell you why an Annie is what it is, hell it's German...maybe they know shit others don't.
I told you I love CZ rifles. Did I tell you I have gone down the "fix-up-a-CZ road already? I liked everything about the thing.
I needed more accuracy than a CZ can provide. plain and simple. I was being serious about someone building up a CZ to test against an Annie. I would like to see it but can't afford any more science projects.
I meant no disrespect to anyone or their newest build.
Not exactly : a well used .22 lr Anschutz can be obtained for a really lower price than new, and her factory barrel WILL perform like a new_ A used AI CAN'T be obtained at any bargain price, and his barrel will NOT perform like a new_ the big difference it's about the non-existent wear of a .22lr quality barrel, opposed to the unavoidable wear of any other rifle caliber_
Ha, no offense taken! You didn't hurt my feelings at all. It's just a rifle and its not like I'm fucking it!
I never settle and the CZ did feel a bit like settling. In the end, I wanted a "tactical trainer" and to me the Manners stock (and immediate availability) of the CZ PT won over the Anschutz. Only later, when I realized how much I ended up dumping into it did I get a tiny bit of remorse.
But my question was a serious one (out of curiousity.) After dumping an immense amount of money and time into my CZ, it averages in the high .3's for 10x5 shot groups at 50. Would an Anschutz beat that?
Would a 40x? Because if it did, I'd be tempted to buy.
Well I never bench mine at 50yds, but for you I will try. I don't have much time between running matches and shooting in them but I will try to do some down and dirty tests on mine. It may take a while as I have 3 matches coming up in the next 3 weekends. I am elbow deep in a top end rebuild on my Ranger truck right now as well and that is eating my fun time at an alarming rate.
I never judge a rimfire at 50yds anymore as our TSC match uses ranges from 57-240yds, and it has to perform great at all those ranges. The best ammo at 50 is almost never the best at 210 or 240 and my compadres such as Bunsen can attest to that.
I will make an effort in the coming weeks to get some numbers.
Interesting thread. I thought about trying to upgrade my 452 with a new stock, possibly a new barrel and maybe a new trigger, but questioned whether I would get the results I wanted especially considering the cost. Then I thought about a 455 PT, but with a price tag over $800, I figured that I could pick up a used 64 MP R for similar cash and get what I wanted.
I found one lnib from a guy on RFC. I'm waiting on DIP to replace the 25 MOA rail that was out of spec and then I'll be in the game.
Chris
I found one lnib from a guy on RFC. I'm waiting on DIP to replace the 25 MOA rail that was out of spec and then I'll be in the game.
Chris
From everything I've read on here and RFC I think the Lija barrel upgrade is very close to the out of the box Anz 64. I'll be hitting the range Thursday and see if I can get you some data. I am not the best group shooter and all my ammo is optimized for my Win 52's, just putting that out there.
Hello: I purchased a 455 American in .22mag last Nov. A couple of weeks later a purchased a 455 .22LR barrel from a guy (BostonCZ) on RC. He had purchased a Lilja barrel for it to replace the OEM barrel thinking it would shoot better. After paying for a high dollar barrel, he could not getter any better results with it than with the OEM barrel. Since he had already paid the for the Lilja barrel he sold me the OEM barrel. So i took from this that the OEM barrels are pretty damn good.
Any idea what kind of ammo he was shooting?
If just some bulk ammo, it probably wouldn't perform much if any better than OEM.
That, or he has a really great OEM barrel (or bad lilja).
I'd love to hear what kind of groups you get out of it! Might have gotten real lucky with it.
If just some bulk ammo, it probably wouldn't perform much if any better than OEM.
That, or he has a really great OEM barrel (or bad lilja).
I'd love to hear what kind of groups you get out of it! Might have gotten real lucky with it.
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