DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

[bubbapug1]

I'd like some help, and I really don't want any long drawn out self rightous safety lectures about exceeding maximum loads. If you feel you have to preach, please preach elsewhere.

I have a DE 44 mag. The gun works great on factory loads, 220 and 240 grain loads. The recoil is very heavy, but the slide works perfectly. DE's can be fussy, and this one won't work with 185 grain factory loads, even with a fairly heavy load of powder behind them.

I have run up and past the maximum load for green dot with xtreme 240 grain bullets, copper plated. The recoil is just not there, not even CLOSE. I am up to 10.1 grains, and maximum is rated at 9.5 grains for a lead bullet with gas checks. At 9.7 and above the DE will on occasion cycle flawlessly, but its a 70% occurance. In factory loads, its more like 100%, but the recoil is probably a 10 on a ten point scale, and I am at a 6 now at 10.1 grains.

I have a couple of questions.

1. Could the green dot have absorbed moisture in the hopper and degraded its performance that badly? Its been in the hopper for four days. I personally haven't seen this occur before.

2. Could the load be that far off? And if it is I can safely increase by 0.2 grain increments until I match factory strength? The case is just slightly over 1/2 full. When i pull the factory loads they are almost totally full, but the powder is different.

3. Could batch to batch variations of green dot be so inconsistant that I have a weak batch?

I am weighing every charge to insure consistancy. The power is just not there, and the brass and primers show absolutly no sign of over pressure now.

The green dot keg has been open for a year, but is sealed against moisture, there is no off odors, and no red misting. The powder produces expected results in both my 9mm and 45 acp loads with no issues.

I think the printed load data is wrong.

 

[Tactical Support]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

28.0 grains H110 w/ 200 grain XTP

I really likes 24gr of H110 240 gr XTP hp W/CCI(350 MAGLPP)

I suggest working the loads up and checking for Pressures and reliable cycling.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

Green Dot isn't a very good choice of powder for a 44 mag. Moderate plinking
loads yes, full house no. It's shotgun powder, too fast.

 

[seanmyhre]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

You're probably getting inconsistant gas amounts from using a powder that's too fast for what you are using it for. Most reloading manuals for 44 mag do not take into account that it's gas operated (if I remember correctly). Even if it's blow-back operated, the recoil from such a light load of fast powder isn't going to cut it. Switch powders. H110 and it will run as well as can be expected.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

When I had my DE all I used was winchester 296 and H110 powders. I dont remember if I ever tried 180's but it worked great with 200&240 XTP for deer hunting.

I miss seeing the donut ring of fire my DE would make...

I had both the 6" and 10" barrels for mine and it was the hammer of thor on whitetail.

Also, lead data is always different than jacketed, I doubt the green dot is building the pressure required to work your gas system. The green dot loads that are on Alliant's website for lead bullets dont appear to be moving along very fast.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

 

[Jim the Plumber]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

What they said above. Also I would NOT use plated bullets in the DE. Easy to get some plating sheared off in the gas port. You have a $1000.00+ pistol, gotta spend a little to feed it too.
The 24 grains of H110 w/ a 240 is the same as I loaded for my brother's DE just last week. functioned perfect.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I prefer H110 and IMR-4227 for 44 mag. But that's just me.

 

[noahmercy]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

Seems like the DEs I've played with liked ball powders and slightly heavy-for-caliber jacketed bullets. That held true for 357s, 41s, 44s, and 50s.

Winchester 296 and H110 seem like the best choices, but as you can see in the loading manuals, they must be run at near maximum loads (these powders cannot safely be reduced). 260-300 grain bullets seemed to yield the best groups at fifty to 100 yards, and recoil seemed gentler to me than with the lighter slugs.

The most accurate 44 mag DE I personally have experience with liked the same load I run in my Super Redhawk...a 300 grain Hornady XTP over a max book charge of Winchester 296 lit by Winchester WLP primers and crimped heavily. This particular scoped DE would lay five shots of these into a group only slightly over an inch at 100 yards. My SR routinely punches 2 inch groups at the same distance.

I also recommend against using plated bullets in the Desert Eagles. Best not tempt fate, since a little plug or sliver of plating will make your finely machined pistol into a very complex and expensive single shot. Even bulk packed factory bullets (Winchester, Remington, IMI, etc.) are a better choice and will likely return better groups than even the best plated slugs.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

listen to everyone, H110 or Winchester 296 are the prefered "magnum" powders. 357 and 44 mags just love this stuff. My 44 DE will only perform 100% with MAX loads of either of these powders. just down .3 grains and it is only about 95% and goes down from there. DE is not made for wussy loads. once saw guy at the range with a .357 DE that would not cycle at all. looked at it a bit and talked to the guy, he was tring to shoot 38 special through it. He said the .357 mags hurt to much.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

oh yea I forgot. with the polygonal rifling, and the gas operation jacketed bullets are the only way to go.

 

[zack-s]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

H110 will give ya the movie like fireball also.

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I'm going to get the powder tomorrow. I bought 1000 240 grain fmj sp's too.

thanks fellas.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

Had to go to the garage and get some of my old data. This was on my older model (pre .50AE) frame. I used 19.2 grains of 296 and it would (without limp wristing) JUST cycle perfectly every time. I could double tap with this load.

I would NEVER use anything other than a jacketed bullet. I seem to not really notice much difference in recoil when using lighter projo's when getting down at the just cycle load but did notice the 240's were more reliable cycling.

As to max loads they would take a lot. I made some real smackers but just had more fun with a modest 240 low 20g loads of 296.

It seemed to be easy to clean with the 296 also

 

[jdel]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

Definately stick with jacketed bullets. If you can find them get the 250 packs of Nosler 240gr hollow points. If you buy in bulk I think Montana Golds 1000 packs of 240's are like &175.00. For target shooting I usually load 22.5 of H110. Not to much recoil and cycles fine. AA#9 works good too but I can't quite remember the charge. Good expensive guns deserve good bullets and in bulk they don't really cost that much more.

 

[samnev]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I have been using 22 grains of 2400 with 240 grain Hornady XTP's in my De for years without any problems.

 

[rweaver00geo]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

2400 with 240gr is the way to go very economical

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

Ran the test today with some Ramshot Tru-Blue and 240 grain JHP's.

The gun worked flawlessly from 12.8 grains to 13.3 grains. Even at the 13.3 grains, which is 2% over max, the recoil was very mild, and there was no muzzle flash. I also tried some magtech factory loads, 220 grain...they worked great too but with a lot more recoil and a LOT more flash! I kind of love the flash!!

Thanks fellas for getting me lined up. I bought some H110 to test too...maybe I will find my ummph and flash with that powder.

I will get chrony values on these loads to verify performance in a few weeks.

 

[Jerkface11]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

If you want recoil buy some 300gr bullets.

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I want recoil, not a broken wrist!!

 

[pacomdiver]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

my DE 44mag has problems with 200's but functions flawless with 240g hornadys and the same 15g bluedot charge and has decent but not overly excessive recoil, it also has a very impressive fireball

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacomdiver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my DE 44mag has problems with 200's but functions flawless with 240g hornadys and the same 15g bluedot charge and has decent but not overly excessive recoil, it also has a very impressive fireball</div></div>

what powder and how much powder?

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I tried H110. What a crazy powder!! A lot of gas, lots of flame, and the gun worked well, but it worked best at 23.0 gr than it did at max loads.

I like the tru blue as it's less distracting noise and flame wise, but the gun prefers H110 I think.

I'm going to chrony all of the loads this weekend and post them in this thread.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[757Fixer]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I load 31.5 gr. H110 with 180 XTP's for crowd pleasing flame and noise.

 

[Falar]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

For the guys sharing load data are you running the Mark VII or Mark XIX Desert Eagles? I heard the XIXs are harder to cycle (heavier slide and barrel) and are in need of the max loads but that isn't the case with VIIs. I haven't started loading for my Mark VII yet but if it really needs "full house" loads to function I may just use some of my Dan Wesson loads in it.

 

[bac700]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I have a MK VII .44 mag, I load 23 gr. of 296 with 240 nosler soft points and 4227 (can't remember charge wt) with the same bullet with no function issues. 296 has more flash and recoil and burns a little cleaner.

 

[Falar]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a MK VII .44 mag, I load 23 gr. of 296 with 240 nosler soft points and 4227 (can't remember charge wt) with the same bullet with no function issues. 296 has more flash and recoil and burns a little cleaner. </div></div>

I love N110 as it seems like I get EXCELLENT velocity (even more so than published H110/W296 loads) and it burns very clean. I think I'll take my Mk VII for a spin this weekend with some 240gr JSP loads. I had always assumed that being an auto, it should be downloaded compared to a revolver (like semiauto rifles vs boltguns) but now that I'm actually reading up on it looks like I was wrong.

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

My Mark VII won't function with less than full loads and 220 or 240 gr bullets.

 

[Falar]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Mark VII won't function with less than full loads and 220 or 240 gr bullets. </div></div>

Good deal. Max loads of N110 under 240 and 300gr bullets is what I will try.

 

[Clark]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

My 1-31-2007 range report:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ruger 44 mag Deerstalker 20" Marlin 444 barrel, cut down to 44 mag, Vari-ii 4X scope, 240 gr JHP .72" long, 24 gr H110, heavy roll crimp, 1.6" OAL,
Measured 1720, 1756 fps
Quickload predicts 1752 fps, 31401 psi
.9" 3 shot group at 100 y </div></div>

I have shot my S&W 29-4 44 mag for 12 years and almost always the same load... 24 gr H110 240 gr JHP.

If you want to reduce the H110 loads way down to old 44 Special H110 published loads, you MUST do the heavy roll crimp. Squib fire in a revolver makes one serious jam.

Much less fussy about roll crimps in the reduced 44 mag loads is AA#9. The entire spectrum of loads from 44 special to 44 mag work just fine with AA#9 and no crimp at all.

 

[pacomdiver]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

15 grains of bluedot, hornady 240g xtp hp's
my DE was made by IMI not magnum industries


what powder and how much powder? [/quote]

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

Here is my final report based on 200 rounds....

At 23.5 grains the case didn't pull back from the chamber wall before the gun tries to cycle, and extraction is an issue. You could see major imprints of the extractor on the case where it had clawed away at the rim, but finally slipped off, leaving the case in the chamber. Repeated firings at the max load would I think lead to extractor failure, not to mention messed up cases.

I am now using 23 grains of H110 with a 240 grain Montana gold soft point jacketed bullet.. This set up seems to work best for me.

 

[bac700]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I just tried some 200 gr. Hornaday XTP's using 27 grains of 296. They worked fine in my MkVII. Although I am left handed and was having a problem with the slide being latched open after every shot. At first I thought it was the load, then I relized I was tripping the slide release up with my index finger as the pistol recoiled. I still like the Nosler 240 jsp and 23.3 grains of 296 the best.

 

[Falar]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

I have a new favorite load and it is 100% functioning in both my Mark VII and Mark XIX.

18.3gr N110
300gr XTP
1.600"
Winchester Brass
Federal Large Pistol Match

1207fps and excellent accuracy.

 

[shooter308]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

like everybody else. N110 or W296 (which a lot of people dont know is the exact same powder made by the same company) or Blue Dot is the olny two powders i will put in my 44 rem mag rifle or 44 mag Ruger pistol i'd assume you need to stick with the heavier (over 200 gr) bullets i mean thats what a 44 mag is for in my belief a big bore heavy knock down caliber. 40 S&W shoots a 180 gr bullet!

 

[Falar]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">like everybody else. N110 or W296 (which a lot of people dont know is the exact same powder made by the same company) or Blue Dot is the olny two powders i will put in my 44 rem mag rifle or 44 mag Ruger pistol i'd assume you need to stick with the heavier (over 200 gr) bullets i mean thats what a 44 mag is for in my belief a big bore heavy knock down caliber. 40 S&W shoots a 180 gr bullet! </div></div>

H110 and W296 are the same powder.

N110 is a Vihtavuori powder and is an excellent magnum pistol powder.

 

[shooter308]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">like everybody else. N110 or W296 (which a lot of people dont know is the exact same powder made by the same company) or Blue Dot is the olny two powders i will put in my 44 rem mag rifle or 44 mag Ruger pistol i'd assume you need to stick with the heavier (over 200 gr) bullets i mean thats what a 44 mag is for in my belief a big bore heavy knock down caliber. 40 S&W shoots a 180 gr bullet! </div></div>

H110 and W296 are the same powder.

N110 is a Vihtavuori powder and is an excellent magnum pistol powder. </div></div>


Yes and N and H are very close on the Keyboard but anyone with a realoding manual with a burn chart would figure that one out thanks for the correction.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: DE 44 MAG LOAD ISSUES - ASKING FOR ADVISE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">like everybody else. N110 or W296 (which a lot of people dont know is the exact same powder made by the same company) or Blue Dot is the olny two powders i will put in my 44 rem mag rifle or 44 mag Ruger pistol i'd assume you need to stick with the heavier (over 200 gr) bullets i mean thats what a 44 mag is for in my belief a big bore heavy knock down caliber. 40 S&W shoots a 180 gr bullet! </div></div>

H110 and W296 are the same powder.

N110 is a Vihtavuori powder and is an excellent magnum pistol powder.</div></div>
Thanks for the heads up on that. I have been using 296 for years on .44mag loads. I have found it to be the best fill and function of any powder I have tried.