I, like many, started shooting in the 1970s when hearing protection wasn't as advertised like it is today. I can't remember when I used the cheap and hard twist-ins but the damage was done. My MEPS audiogram loss put me borderline and I had many ENT evaluations to determine I was not DQed. Since, I've been paranoid and always wear protection. I resumed a 20-year hiatus this year and have been to the range 30x. On almost every occasions I doubled up but the in-ear is a challenge because I have a very small ear opening and a lot of wax. My ear muffs are in the 30s NRR. I just started the paperwork on a suppressor but in the meantime, I'm wondering the practicality of putting up ear-level (from a bench) acoustic panels to decrease dB. High power rifles generate about 165dB at the muzzle so the shooter is subjected to about 157dB. Double hearing protection gives you about 30-32 dB reduction so you are still getting over 125dB which is below the 140 limit, but still quite loud. Is this enough? Am I over thinking it? A barrier would decrease 5dB (although this site stated 17dB-Sound Propagation Level Calculator). A second barrier only lowers about 1dB. Also, sound conducts through your skull so protecting that may afford add'l protection as well. Thoughts? Thanks,
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Decibels, barriers and hearing protection
- Thread starter YamaS3rider
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When I said clean it out I meant clean it out however you need to. Swab it, vacuum it, power wash it, I don't care.
I mean, WTF.....it's a basic issue that's keeping you from some very effective forms of hearing protection. If I were you, I would do whatever I had to fix that.
Not answering your exact question as I have no idea about acoustic panels. However, I have one ear that I must absolutely be very careful with.
One thing that is not widely talked about is not to have anything, and I mean anything, come between the earmuff and your head.
No earpieces of rx glasses or safety glasses. No baseball caps. No winter toques. No porny 1970’s tri-color headbands. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Attached is a CDC/NOISH report on police officer firearm training and, in part, the effect of the temples of safety glasses breaking the earmuff seal on dB protection.
The effect was significant (or at least my reading of the report suggests it was). Like cuts the muffs effectiveness in half, or worse.
Pro tip: search the report for the phrase “safety glasses”, obv without the quotation marks. If that doesn’t work, use just “safety”.
I don’t have time to scan the report to see if they specified the exact type of safety glasses or provided a picture. Might be those monster “bass master” type that were popular long ago, and they’d make a significant break in the muff seal.
Regardless, I wouldn’t fool around if you have ears on the edge. No goddamn muzzle brakes!!!!
One thing that is not widely talked about is not to have anything, and I mean anything, come between the earmuff and your head.
No earpieces of rx glasses or safety glasses. No baseball caps. No winter toques. No porny 1970’s tri-color headbands. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Attached is a CDC/NOISH report on police officer firearm training and, in part, the effect of the temples of safety glasses breaking the earmuff seal on dB protection.
The effect was significant (or at least my reading of the report suggests it was). Like cuts the muffs effectiveness in half, or worse.
Pro tip: search the report for the phrase “safety glasses”, obv without the quotation marks. If that doesn’t work, use just “safety”.
I don’t have time to scan the report to see if they specified the exact type of safety glasses or provided a picture. Might be those monster “bass master” type that were popular long ago, and they’d make a significant break in the muff seal.
Regardless, I wouldn’t fool around if you have ears on the edge. No goddamn muzzle brakes!!!!
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I forgot to mention that there is a company that offers safety glasses that Velcro to your earmuffs and they work quite well. No seal breaking.
Not as convenient as the regular type but hey, it’s your ears. Gotta remove them before you take the muffs off or it’s a bit of a circus
They have some sort of patent, I believe. Sorta dumb.
Not as convenient as the regular type but hey, it’s your ears. Gotta remove them before you take the muffs off or it’s a bit of a circus
They have some sort of patent, I believe. Sorta dumb.
I always use double hearing protection, even with my can.
I like to believe the can reduces concussion
But I really like the acoustic panel idea, even if it’s only another 5 db reduction. Do it.
I used to shoot at a range with steel sides and roof and a concrete berm in front above the target line of sight to prevent any inadvertent launches into the housing development beyond the target berm. It was freaking loud in there. An acoustic panel or even a sort of acoustic shell would have been nice.
I like to believe the can reduces concussion
But I really like the acoustic panel idea, even if it’s only another 5 db reduction. Do it.
I used to shoot at a range with steel sides and roof and a concrete berm in front above the target line of sight to prevent any inadvertent launches into the housing development beyond the target berm. It was freaking loud in there. An acoustic panel or even a sort of acoustic shell would have been nice.
Well, my vision is more dysfunctional than my hearing so that is a no-go. In the end, I will probably just shoot my .22LR with target ammo until I get the suppressor.
Acoustic panels may help, but only if you maintain a certain position and honestly that doesn't sound like a viable plan to me.
What does work though is a good seal (as mentioned)... which means either custom plugs or foamies (inserted properly) AND over-the-ear muffs (with gel cups to go around glasses, not to mention overall comfort) for added reduction, some concussion diffraction, and maybe go electronic so you can hear commands and such.
Don't sweat what muffs too much as they only add a few dB of noise reduction to your in-ear ear pro's rating, but do sweat the seal...
I recommend these (I wear Sordin Supreme Pro-Xs over mine and they're all-day comfortable and with them cranked I can still hear as normal): https://1of1custom.com/products/total-block
The good 'ol foamies work about just as good too, they're just not as comfortable, and something like 8 out of 10 morons don't know how to insert them properly...
What does work though is a good seal (as mentioned)... which means either custom plugs or foamies (inserted properly) AND over-the-ear muffs (with gel cups to go around glasses, not to mention overall comfort) for added reduction, some concussion diffraction, and maybe go electronic so you can hear commands and such.
Don't sweat what muffs too much as they only add a few dB of noise reduction to your in-ear ear pro's rating, but do sweat the seal...
I recommend these (I wear Sordin Supreme Pro-Xs over mine and they're all-day comfortable and with them cranked I can still hear as normal): https://1of1custom.com/products/total-block
The good 'ol foamies work about just as good too, they're just not as comfortable, and something like 8 out of 10 morons don't know how to insert them properly...
...which is why Aviator sunglasses (Ray-Ban, etc) have thin, flexible temples - so they don't interfere with the seal of the headset around your ears, which would let in cockpit noise and interfere with communications. They suck for safety glasses though - they're glass and they shatter.
I usually do as well. Religiously If I'm shooting under a roof or anything that will amplify the noise and concussion.
You can’t wear contacts? That was my solution for this -10/-11 nearsighted fellow…until I had cataract surgery…and then promptly had a detached retina in each eye…but after a year of almost no shooting, all fixed now and only need to mess with the scope diopter to see through the scope.
My point being that there might be a way.
Personally, I think your plan of waiting for the suppressor is a good one, as a good suppressor really made all the difference for me. But consider contacts + non-seal breaking eye pro + muffs + suppressor + maybe plugs (if you can stand the latter). I also avoid other unsuppressed gunfire like the plague lol
I finally dug up the link to the CDC/NIOSH Fort Collins Police Hazard report that I posted above in pdf format.
I dug it up because only one of you paranoid bastards looked at the pdf lol. Since I want to help save your hearing, here’s a link to the report pdf so you don’t have to trust my pdf:
I dug it up because only one of you paranoid bastards looked at the pdf lol. Since I want to help save your hearing, here’s a link to the report pdf so you don’t have to trust my pdf:
Hmm, the foam plugs I use seem to squish/roll down pretty small. Maybe buy a different brand? Just saying….
You're one of the few that knows they have to be rolled before inserting them in the ears.
99% of the people I see wearing soft ear plugs don't have a fucking clue about how to use them correctly.
Wait, you’ve actual seen some people who don’t roll them??? lololol
Omg. I thought some people didn’t roll them enough, or didn’t hold them in while they expand in their ears. Not rolling at all…wow.
They just push them in. I see like 3/4 of the plug sticking out of the ear canal and into the ear lobe.
WHAT! I’ve seen that phenom too…but…but…
And then I realized, like I was shot, like I was shot with a diamond, a diamond bullet right through my forehead.
Sound clip from Apocalypse Now 🔊 Click to listen
People also don't know that you should pull your ear back when inserting the foam plugs after rolling them to a point.
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A ton of the foam plug brands have little to no instructions on the packaging and lots of people make the wrong assumption you just shove them in. Plus, it's such a basic thing people don't want to look stupid and ask the question of how to use them.
That's not even touching on the fact there's always some guy running around the range or work area saying ear pro isn't necessary and hearing loss is bs.
That's not even touching on the fact there's always some guy running around the range or work area saying ear pro isn't necessary and hearing loss is bs.
Along the lines of the acoustic panel question - I saw something years ago about using a row of tires stacked together like a tube, about 6 ft long, mounted on a bench in front of your shooting bench such that your rifle muzzle is inside the first couple tires. Obviously you'd need your own shooting bench for this, not gonna be practical for a public range.
I'm sure it's nowhere near as effective as a modern suppressor, but reports indicated this method cut the sound down by quite a bit. If you're already using ear protection too, it could do what you need.
I have a friend who has this setup inside a shed in his backyard (although he has more than 6 ft of tires stacked together). It's very effective, as he shoots all the time without disturbing the neighbors. He does not use (or even own, to my knowledge) a firearm-mounted suppressor. From my place about 1/2 mi away, it's just a dull "thump", like hitting a hanging rug with a rug beater. If you didn't know what it was, you'd never even notice it. The setup requires a fan to clear the smoke every few shots, because even though it's "smokeless" powder, it still builds up enough smoke to obscure the target since it has no place to go inside the tube.
So here's my plan. Yes, my anatomical features are a challenge. I'm going to an audiologist for a custom fit and I'll be earwax free ahead of time. Acrylic glass 1/2" offers 33dB reduction. I bought a 12x12 and 1/4" 12x8 for R ear. I will test with a decibel meter and report back. $35 so I'll see.
Yeah, you’d have to confirm on your face that the thin temples don’t pry up the muff seal due to the angle they go in (like if you had a thin face). Also I’d test the seal’s integrity by getting near, say, a loud vacuum cleaner or fan. Note the noise level with glasses on, rip them off and compare the noise.
Shade-tree mechanic, yeah, but
This guy seems to have an ok “temple angle of attack” setup.
His eyeglass temples closely follow his face and enter the muff (sorry) straight on. Of course you’d have to find safety-rated glasses and not glasses made of, er, glass (as you said).
Personally, I don’t want ANY seal break.
While looking around, I found some other options. Don’t think any are electronic-type, the kind that allows you to hear normal sounds and cuts out for gunshots.
These are all goofy looking, except maybe the arborist setup. But that would look a little Tier 1 at the range lol.
I put these here for curiosity’s sake, not for serious recommendation.
Groggles
Groggles – Noise Reduction Earmuffs & Eye Protection
When it comes to construction, your eyes and ears are constantly at-risk of injury. Damage can occur at any moment as well as over time. So, eye and ear protect
toolsinaction.com
Amazon product ASIN B0C8KYCLLV
UNINOVA
An arborist thing. I’m sure there’s some super-fancy actual military versions with integrated eyepro. I just haven’t seen them (nor looked for them…yet lol) Amazon product ASIN B0BVH9Z2SD
eBay thing
Shooting Range Safety Glasses Clear Eye Protection Hearing Noise EarMuff 1 Set | eBay
Ear protection rated to Class 5 or NRR 25-30dB. Replaceable lens options & accessories. Adjustable arms to ensure comfort & correct fit. Unprecedented comfort suitable for long periods of use.
www.ebay.com
Again, I put these here for curiosity’s sake.
I suggest the following pair. It’s the eyepro I linked to in an earlier post and it is way simpler, cheaper, better looking, and is also more adaptable than the stuff I posted above. Use with your existing muffs.
Kinda dumb pic (hair?), but shows how they work.
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WTH? Vacuum cleaners?? Rip them off?? You understand "flexible", right? I flew with them for 25 years, never needed to do any of that. If you have a thin face, the headset pressure will flex the "flexible" temples in against your face and still seal the gap. The point was that they were designed to work better under headsets vs. anything else. They (Ray-Bans) are not suitable for safety glasses, but with the proper lens material (other makers like Randolph, etc maybe?) they would be.Yeah, you’d have to confirm on your face that the thin temples don’t pry up the muff seal due to the angle they go in (like if you had a thin face). Also I’d test the seal’s integrity by getting near, say, a loud vacuum cleaner or fan. Note the noise level with glasses on, rip them off and compare the noise.
Shade-tree mechanic, yeah, but
This guy seems to have an ok “temple angle of attack” setup.
View attachment 8319726
His eyeglass temples closely follow his face and enter the muff (sorry) straight on. Of course you’d have to find safety-rated glasses and not glasses made of, er, glass (as you said).
While looking around, I found some other options. Don’t think any are electronic-type, the kind that allows you to hear normal sounds and cuts out for gunshots.
These are all goofy looking, except maybe the arborist setup. But that would look a little Tier 1 at the range lol.
I put these here for curiosity’s sake, not for serious recommendation.
Groggles
View attachment 8319727
Groggles – Noise Reduction Earmuffs & Eye Protection
When it comes to construction, your eyes and ears are constantly at-risk of injury. Damage can occur at any moment as well as over time. So, eye and ear protect
Amazon product ASIN B0C8KYCLLV
UNINOVA
View attachment 8319728
An arborist thing. I’m sure there’s some super-fancy actual military versions with integrated eyepro. I just haven’t seen them (nor looked for them…yet lol) Amazon product ASIN B0BVH9Z2SD
eBay thing
View attachment 8319736
Shooting Range Safety Glasses Clear Eye Protection Hearing Noise EarMuff 1 Set | eBay
Ear protection rated to Class 5 or NRR 25-30dB. Replaceable lens options & accessories. Adjustable arms to ensure comfort & correct fit. Unprecedented comfort suitable for long periods of use.www.ebay.com
Again, I put these here for curiosity’s sake.
I suggest the following pair. It’s the eyepro I linked to in an earlier post and it is way simpler, cheaper, better looking, and is also more adaptable than the stuff I posted above. Use with your existing muffs.
View attachment 8319756
Kinda dumb pic (hair?), but shows how they work.
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Just saw your reply.
A couple of points:
- Firing a gun (esp. a braked rifle) near your head is way, way, way louder than the noise encountered while flying a civilian plane or piloting a civilian helicopter. Perhaps you’re a mil pilot in a helo with miniguns burping all day behind your shoulder and rockets blasting off?
- The seal is still broken by aviator frames. Might be a tiny bit, but sound damage, like a lot of types of chemical exposure, is cumulative.
- Even if the seal is not broken, sound will most likely travel more easily down the metal temple (vs. your bones) around to the top or back of your ear, where most earpieces terminate.
I am also not saying you should wear the SoundVision eye pro while flying. They’d be pretty darn inconvenient.
I AM saying don’t fool yourself into thinking aviators cause NO sound protection degradation in ear muffs. Maybe the db impact is inconsequential. Maybe it isn’t.
Meanwhile you are using your body as a test experiment.
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