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Decide what you want from Cops
- Thread starter Anb618
- Start date
I don’t think it’s too debatable that a lot of agencies don’t have the best applicant pool. And it’s likely going to get worse if funding starts getting cut.
Insurance definitely wouldn’t work.
Before you can change the standards, you have to build the applicant pool via making the job more attractive.
It was already “come work shifts, weekends, holidays, while getting into a fight several days of the week for $40k/yr.”
Add what the media is doing......good luck. I agree the standards need to be higher in a lot of agencies, but that is cart before the horse.
Hi,
Well actually I have.
FDLE, Dept of State, Saudi Embassy, etc etc etc
IIRC you were not hired right?
Sincerely,
Theis
Well actually I have.
FDLE, Dept of State, Saudi Embassy, etc etc etc
IIRC you were not hired right?
Sincerely,
Theis
Can’t get better applicants for that kind of pay... that’s the starting point.
This is going to be a pretty unpopular opinion and I've got my flame suit on so I'm ready (I think) for whatever comes next lolol
I think this could be solved with one simple action:
Let the lawyers loose on police misconduct
I think this could be solved with one simple action:
Let the lawyers loose on police misconduct
Already happens. The minute a cop is deemed by a judge that he didn’t act in good faith, he loses qualified immunity.
This goes back to the general public not understanding how use of force works.
Exactly. Also, it's apparent that there is a huge misconception that police are never prosecuted. I feel like I'm in the fucking twilight zone...
I was hired. The agency let me go because they said they didn’t like my attitude and that I challenged instructors even though I was there for over a year. This was after I was already working for another agency and moved out west. They didn’t like me asking “why” we did certain things a certain way even though my experiences were different. So they tried to say I was boarderline disrespectful. Which my evaluations from everyone on the road said otherwise. I would articulate why I did something and they just didn’t care. They said “you do it our way”. If they wanna run it that way, fine. I was just too hard headed to conform.
I’ve never violated anyones civil rights, issued a attitude ticket, or accused of excessive force. One lady tried to say I rolled a stop sign...that’s about it.
LOL
Sometimes all you can do is laugh at the irony.
That is not even close to the standard for "qualified immunity" and hasn't been since 1982.
In practical application an officer acting in "good faith" is enough in many circumstances for qualified immunity to apply.
For QI not to apply though, an officers actions must violative of rights that are “clearly established” in light of existing case law.
Even officers who violate peoples’ rights maliciously will be immune unless the victim can show the right they claim was violated was “clearly established.”
What's the difference between a "right" and a "clearly established" right you might ask, so appellate courts can engage in such sound reasoning as the following: "“We cannot conclude that Gabriel’s right to be free from excessive force was clearly established here.”
Do you have any examples or cases to reference or are you just making a huge glaring assumption based on your biased opinion?
That is the issue that has been a problem for like pretty much all human history, I'm not sure there is an easy solution.
You hire people who will "follow orders" and "Enforce the law" when good decent freedom loving types are the ones with their hands on the levers of power.
Then evil folks get their hands on the levers of power and well....
And guess who enforces the "new" laws that the evil folks pass....
I'm not really sure how to fix the problem because the evil folks ALWAYS eventually get their hands on the levers of power.
It's actually gotten very bad in that way in this country as the evil got their hands on the political branch and used that to stock the judiciary branch with all their henchmen and fellow travelers, so now what do the "good" people do? We are not there yet, but if the good folks can't turn things around politically, very soon they will be facing a similar dilemma to some folks nearing a century ago....
Well the politicians wrote a law saying we have to get on the cattle cars to the camps and the judges said that was a lawful order / law and the police are telling us we need to obey.......
(If you think that's being overblown, well many left wing politicians are already calling for your money / property / possessions / liberty to be taken away based on your skin colour and they mean it too. They just don't yet have enough stupid voters to let them get it passed... But unless they are stopped, they will keep trying till they get enough votes to start pushing their racist laws, right about the same time they get their fellow travelers in the courts to say it's somehow all good).
If the good people obey and worship "The Law" instead of what is "Right," well you wind up where we are today with the decent folks chained by the law, and the communists who have no plan to ever obey the law about to take over the place, as the law gets used as a weapon against the good and a cover for the folks that are evil.
Perhaps if the system was setup that the law enforcement could simply refuse to obey any laws they felt violated the constitution and the politicians would have to foot the bill out of their own pocket to prove them constitutional in court BEFORE they could demand they be enforced that might help a lot.
As it is now, basically the politicians can write whatever "laws" they want and get the "Enforcement" types to enforce them (usually at gunpoint), and you are stuck having to spend time and your own money trying to fight it in court and then if you do, it's like okay we'll tell them to please stop doing it now, pretty please.
Perhaps if we made every law have to be fought in the courts to prove it was reasonable, constitutional and fair before it could be enforced, it would be a start.
However of course as in the Dred Scott case, well the courts sometimes even the SC can be totally wrong. It is safe to say the stupid decision by the SC where just like the court today, they bent over backwards to avoid doing the correct lawful constitutional right thing, pretty much made the civil war a certainty.
So what was the actual "right thing to do?"
Go along with the "Law" doing a horrible terrible thing, or say No way in hell, enforce it yourself?
There are at least several other very wrong SC rulings still on the books that if the government tried to use them again widespread in a time of significant poverty.... a lot of folks would have a different take on stuff.....
Fair enough, I'll have to do some research on it. I guess I'll go down a giant fucking google rabbit hole because you're too stubborn to support your argument with examples for us to tear apart...or I can say fuck you too and not give a shit what you think...hmm what to do, what to do...
If you're asking for cites then Harlow v. Fitzgerald (1982) 457 U.S. 800 is the SCOTUS case that changed the Federal QI analysis away from the previous "good faith" standard.
As far as the quote in my post you wanted the citation spoon fed to you, check out Winzer v. Kaufman County, 916 F.3d 464 (2019).
That’s not what I asked. It’s great that he’s being charged, the justice system might get one right this time. Do you think the officer in question was justified in using the force he did to subdue George Floyd?
Not the same at all. The “even one is too many” gun control argument ultimately centers around an inanimate object. The “even one is too many” I am talking about are actual human beings that have a gun, a badge, and the power of their unaccountable police force and union behind them. I’m asking that police be held just as accountable as me, or you, or anyone else in these situations
I’ll take the soft cuddly magician! That way if he pulls me over and gives me a ticket, we can hug and he will use his magic power to make my ticket disappear !
UnConstitutional law, not enforced due to violation of Constitutional rights until its removed and who authored the law is dragged into prison for treason.
What I want from Cops, put the damn Cops Show back on !!! I need my fix on Saturday nights to watch stupid people come to terms with reality by the various implements used by the aforementioned peace keepers.
All.Of.This.
Hit it right on the head man.
Just want to say there are lots of good points in here. Even some of the posts critical of LE have interesting content. I especially found @THEIS content regarding personally bonded insurance interesting. Had never heard that before, but unfortunately I doubt it would ever be accepted. It would necessitate a jurisdiction increasing officer pay (to be able to afford the insurance premiums) and would increase training costs (because insurance companies would never allow officers to be insured if they saw the state of most of our current “training” schedules). Those are just the first two reasons off the top of my head. Hell, I haven’t had Department sponsored defensive tactics training in over 5 years. I’ve argued with my chief(s) over it before and have been told it’s just not in the budget.
Then there are others...
1) The danger of injury/death may well be higher for garbage men than LE. I’ll admit I don’t know the stats. The difference is that garbage men don’t get attacked by the recycling bin. Commercial Fishermen don’t get maliciously shoved off the boat and left to drown. ComEd linemen don’t get zapped unless they fuck up setting their ground line. Injuries and deaths in 99% of other professions are mostly caused by freak accidents and personal negligence. No one is attacking the garbage man with the sole motive being that he wears that fancy reflective vest.
2) I have no interest in finding another job at this moment. I love my job. I do however dislike people who have no clue how to do my job, telling me how to do it though...
3) Found this article on PoliceOne.com. They copied it with permission from TheRuralBadge. I had never even heard of the original site, but felt the author should be credited with the content since it was thought provoking to me, though clearly not for you.
I think this paragraph sets out the main points for how to “fix” policing;
“If you recruit well, conduct thorough background checks and train constantly, you can have a human with a kind heart and good ethics who is willing to fight hard, be uncomfortable and even get hurt for you.”
Good hiring practices for jobs that attract quality candidates, good vetting process for those that do apply, and continuous in-service training to make good officers into better officers.
@Dthomas3523 has already said it, and I’ll reiterate. “The Thin Blue Line” is nearly a myth. Good officers everywhere would love for bad officers to disappear. Derek Chauvin made us all look like assholes, and we’re more pissed at him than anyone else for what he did. Bad cops make good cops’ jobs harder.
Now go get yourself another DUI so you have something else to complain about LE over. Your defense attorney is probably starving to death while all your local bars have been closed.
Then there are others...
1) The danger of injury/death may well be higher for garbage men than LE. I’ll admit I don’t know the stats. The difference is that garbage men don’t get attacked by the recycling bin. Commercial Fishermen don’t get maliciously shoved off the boat and left to drown. ComEd linemen don’t get zapped unless they fuck up setting their ground line. Injuries and deaths in 99% of other professions are mostly caused by freak accidents and personal negligence. No one is attacking the garbage man with the sole motive being that he wears that fancy reflective vest.
2) I have no interest in finding another job at this moment. I love my job. I do however dislike people who have no clue how to do my job, telling me how to do it though...
3) Found this article on PoliceOne.com. They copied it with permission from TheRuralBadge. I had never even heard of the original site, but felt the author should be credited with the content since it was thought provoking to me, though clearly not for you.
I think this paragraph sets out the main points for how to “fix” policing;
“If you recruit well, conduct thorough background checks and train constantly, you can have a human with a kind heart and good ethics who is willing to fight hard, be uncomfortable and even get hurt for you.”
Good hiring practices for jobs that attract quality candidates, good vetting process for those that do apply, and continuous in-service training to make good officers into better officers.
@Dthomas3523 has already said it, and I’ll reiterate. “The Thin Blue Line” is nearly a myth. Good officers everywhere would love for bad officers to disappear. Derek Chauvin made us all look like assholes, and we’re more pissed at him than anyone else for what he did. Bad cops make good cops’ jobs harder.
Now go get yourself another DUI so you have something else to complain about LE over. Your defense attorney is probably starving to death while all your local bars have been closed.
Generally, we started with a political and legal system built for an engaged, high trust people. Over time, participation drops off, and low-trust peoples are introduced. Tighten controls to effectively police low-trust behavior, and high-trust people are upset.
Mix Mayberry and Mogadishu, and here we are.
Policing homogeneous rural populations and diverse metropolitan populations the same way doesn’t work, and vice versa. Lumping them all together statistically and anecdotally doesn’t work either.
Fire and EMS is so competitive, candidates travel great distances to land a job. City and State Police departments , and to a lesser extent County Sheriffs, have a harder time finding qualified candidates. Consequently, prospective candidates are often recruited far and wide. As a result, local populations are often served by outsiders, a potential source of friction. This of course varies widely by locality. Equal opportunity employment laws contribute to this situation.
Citizens need to take more responsibility for being good citizens, law enforcement needs to clean up their ‘bad apples’, and we all need to stop letting shitty leadership stink up the place. That means holding ourselves and each other accountable. JFK’s ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country’ applies here.
No one is keeping anyone from leaving the country if they don’t like it here.
Mix Mayberry and Mogadishu, and here we are.
Policing homogeneous rural populations and diverse metropolitan populations the same way doesn’t work, and vice versa. Lumping them all together statistically and anecdotally doesn’t work either.
Fire and EMS is so competitive, candidates travel great distances to land a job. City and State Police departments , and to a lesser extent County Sheriffs, have a harder time finding qualified candidates. Consequently, prospective candidates are often recruited far and wide. As a result, local populations are often served by outsiders, a potential source of friction. This of course varies widely by locality. Equal opportunity employment laws contribute to this situation.
Citizens need to take more responsibility for being good citizens, law enforcement needs to clean up their ‘bad apples’, and we all need to stop letting shitty leadership stink up the place. That means holding ourselves and each other accountable. JFK’s ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country’ applies here.
No one is keeping anyone from leaving the country if they don’t like it here.
Most jobs in the pay scale of L.E require at least a bachelors degree in the field to get your foot in the door. Or they are extremely physically taxing and dangerous. Anyone else here ever roughneck? The pay is great, but most don't come back after their first hitch. Especially if it is one where you end up tripping pipe for three or four days, or loose circulation and end up humping sacks of gel and cotton seed hulls. No body appreciates their job, I know every body is super special and needs more.
You are a cog in a machine. Somebody did your job before you started and someone will do your job when you are gone. If you don't like what you are doing, move along.
I have noticed over the years, that most people who are terrible at their jobs, are completely oblivious to that fact.
You are a cog in a machine. Somebody did your job before you started and someone will do your job when you are gone. If you don't like what you are doing, move along.
I have noticed over the years, that most people who are terrible at their jobs, are completely oblivious to that fact.
" “The Thin Blue Line” is nearly a myth. Good officers everywhere would love for bad officers to disappear. Derek Chauvin made us all look like assholes, and we’re more pissed at him than anyone else for what he did."
@Anb618 . So how many years did that guy have on the job? How many complaints against him? And the blue line protected him and many others just like him.
Take your bullshit elsewhere.
Ohh BTW. Your projection game sux.
@Anb618 . So how many years did that guy have on the job? How many complaints against him? And the blue line protected him and many others just like him.
Take your bullshit elsewhere.
Ohh BTW. Your projection game sux.
Have your morning beer yet to kill the shakes? Hope your tractor has auto-steer.
Never blocked anyone before. Looks like it’s time to give it a try. No point having a discussion with this one.
due to the prosecuter going for 2nd degree murder......yes. the prosecuter is known antifa member/leader. so more riots is right up his agenda.
A good rule of thumb (generally speaking), if most of the LE community seems to rally around something, and a lot of the public isn’t.......it likely means the public disagreeing is the portion that has no idea the details or the law.
You’ll always find some shitty cops, but the days of the corrupt watching out for one another are either gone, or were just a product of movies. We don’t rally around shitbags. And we definitely don’t walk out over them.
You’ll always find some shitty cops, but the days of the corrupt watching out for one another are either gone, or were just a product of movies. We don’t rally around shitbags. And we definitely don’t walk out over them.
This whole idea of LE agencies trying to cover-up wrongs, protect shit-birds and build omnipotent departments so as to keep the local citizenry under thumb is ridiculous to the point of being offensive. Where does this absurdity come from?
Since November, 2019, a Police Officer in the city in which I work has been the subject of five, yes five, Internal Affairs investigations, to include being arrested twice by his/her own department. He/she has been fired twice and has both times beaten it by appealing the action. All the while sitting at home drinking and causing problems while collecting a $90k salary.
The District Attorney, not a real go-getter, hasn't done much of anything to help the PD and, after the last arrest which included a felony charge, was only going to be able to keep the officer in jail a few days. The PD and the officer's family were very concerned about what would happen when he/she got out of jail and was able to continue the spree of jack-assery. So, the Chief made some calls to the local 3-letter agency and, after a short investigation and working with an aggressive US Attorney, was able to get shit-bird arrested on federal charges and detained pending trial.
This Police Department was desperate to get rid of this ass-hat who had been an officer there for over 8 years and had, at one time, been fantastic. But, after the initial post-hire probation period is over, firing isn't very easy. They did everything they could trying to handle this in-house before having to ask for help. They do try to police themselves, and they try very hard. As mentioned somewhere before, nobody cares more about their reputation than they do.
The PD is now in the process of writing new policy as a result of this whole scenario so that they will be more empowered if/when this happens again.
This is just one example of something like this happening. The media doesn't get this story, so neither do we. Maybe if the media did get this info and reported it, (not that they would because it doesn't help their campaign) there wouldn't be so many ignorant accusations flying around about corrupt police practices which aren't true.
Since November, 2019, a Police Officer in the city in which I work has been the subject of five, yes five, Internal Affairs investigations, to include being arrested twice by his/her own department. He/she has been fired twice and has both times beaten it by appealing the action. All the while sitting at home drinking and causing problems while collecting a $90k salary.
The District Attorney, not a real go-getter, hasn't done much of anything to help the PD and, after the last arrest which included a felony charge, was only going to be able to keep the officer in jail a few days. The PD and the officer's family were very concerned about what would happen when he/she got out of jail and was able to continue the spree of jack-assery. So, the Chief made some calls to the local 3-letter agency and, after a short investigation and working with an aggressive US Attorney, was able to get shit-bird arrested on federal charges and detained pending trial.
This Police Department was desperate to get rid of this ass-hat who had been an officer there for over 8 years and had, at one time, been fantastic. But, after the initial post-hire probation period is over, firing isn't very easy. They did everything they could trying to handle this in-house before having to ask for help. They do try to police themselves, and they try very hard. As mentioned somewhere before, nobody cares more about their reputation than they do.
The PD is now in the process of writing new policy as a result of this whole scenario so that they will be more empowered if/when this happens again.
This is just one example of something like this happening. The media doesn't get this story, so neither do we. Maybe if the media did get this info and reported it, (not that they would because it doesn't help their campaign) there wouldn't be so many ignorant accusations flying around about corrupt police practices which aren't true.
Ironically, these policies are the product of the soft Society we have become, proliferated mainly by the emo kid types out there protesting against the police.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
We’re doing up Father’s Day today instead of tomorrow and I’m making the waifu watch Demolition Man...
This movie called it, as did all early 90’s and 80’s movies did. This is the police force they want. Consider the OP’s thread closed. You’re welcome America.
#SolvingProblemsInTheFirstWorldOnDrinkAndFilmAtATime
We’re doing up Father’s Day today instead of tomorrow and I’m making the waifu watch Demolition Man...
This movie called it, as did all early 90’s and 80’s movies did. This is the police force they want. Consider the OP’s thread closed. You’re welcome America.
#SolvingProblemsInTheFirstWorldOnDrinkAndFilmAtATime
Diffuse does not mean what you think it means....
RIP VeerG
Defuse vs. Diffuse
This Grammar.com article is about Defuse vs. Diffuse — enjoy your reading!
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Angbeen Chaudhary — Grammar Tips
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English as a language never stops to amaze its learners. As easy as it might be, thereare times when you find yourself panicking about what meant what as the words are just so much alike that you can’t tell them apart. Defuse and diffuse are a word pair of English language which are almost homophones, i.e. they have similar sounds but very different meanings and spellings. The massive differences in their meanings make defuse and diffuse unrelated and un-substitutable with each other.
The sentence at the beginning of the article makes use of both the words in their most common meanings and context. This article will help you how to tell them apart and when to use which homophone, without making a mistake.
Diffuse as verb:
Originated from Latin (diffundere meaning extensive) many centuries ago, diffuse is used as a verb in English language where it means to spread over a wide area or between a large number of people. The advances in technology diffused rapidly over the last century. Diffuse is also a phenomenon of physics which implies intermingle with another substance by movement, typically in a specified direction or at specified speed. The molecules of oxygen diffuse across the membrane during gaseous exchange. Diffuse is also used when something cause light to spread evenly to reduce glare and harsh shadows.
Diffuse as adjective:
Another way in which diffuse is used is as an adjective where is describes the noun. The most common definition of diffuse as adjective is when something spreads out over a large area or is not concentrated. The diffuse community was only centered in the church. Diffuse is also utilized in the medical world where is denotes a disease which is not localized in the body. The patient has got diffused hyperplasia, he will very likelymake it. Diffuse is also used as an adjective when it defines a thing or person lacking clarity or conciseness.
Defuse as verb:
The most common use of defuse as a verb is when it implies to remove the fuse from (an explosive device) in order to prevent it from exploding. The explosive specialist trainingrequires the trainers to defuse the bomb in a violent situation. With synonyms like deactivate, disarm and disable, defuse is a well-known phenomenon. Defuse is also employed as a verb where it means to make a situation lesstense or dangerous.
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