Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

T

tepeter1

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Minuteman
Jan 13, 2007
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MS
#1
Guys

I have a friend who asked me to find him a Remington Model Seven in 6mm for his 8 year old to deer hunt with. He wants a rifle that won't beat the kid to death so that proper shooting technique will be maintained. In my search it looks like Remington discontinued the 6mm in 1984 on the Model Seven platform. This guy does not reload an never will (not the type), which begs the question I wanted to present to the forum.

What calibers would you guys recomend for a small child that are readily available, that won't punish the kids shoulder and teach him to flinch and develop bad shooting habits?

My thoughts are a .243 is easy, but I am curious about other rounds such as the .260 which I have never seen nor fired. Thanks in advance for any input you may have.
 
#6
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

.243 would be my first thought. Then next in line a .22-250, .257 Roberts, .260, really any short action that shoots a bullet in the 120 grain or less weight class is going to provide light recoil and a well placed shot will do the job on deer just fine.

In my opinion a well placed shot is the key to it all, and a lighter recoil like a .22-250 will allow the child to attain the necessary accuracy without a flinch.
 
#7
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

.243 or .260 Rem would get my vote...leaning torwards .243 since ammo and rifles are more widely avaliable in that chambering.
 
#8
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

I have taken plenty of deer with a .223. Shot placement is key for a clean/ethical kill, but with the right bullets (commercially available of course since your friend doesn't care to reload), the .223 is a capable deer cartridge. Depending on what rifle and which twist barrel he goes with, you can get the Barnes TSX loads in 55gr, 62gr and 70gr, all of which will do a number on a deer within 200yds. There isn't a bullet made that I'd take a shot on a deer with a .223 beyond that range anyways in terms of a clean kill.

If he doesn't mind a little bit more recoil, then the .243 is also a good choice.

Remington makes a couple of different "youth" model rifles that are nice, including the 700 SPS "Young Bucks" edition in .243 with both a 24" and a 20" barrel. They also offer the 700 SPS Compact.
 
#9
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

My oldest son has a model 7 in .17 fireball, the rifle is really accurate and easy to shoot, but the basic reason I got it for him was to get used to shooting and he only got it after he was a good shot and safe with his 1250 fps pellet gun, which he only received after being safe and reliable with his $50 daisy BB gun, His next rifle will be a 700 in 7mm-08, and by that time his brother will get handed down the trusty fireball...
As far as deer hunting goes, I love my 7mm-08 the 17 may not be a good choice even for small deer, I recommend letting the kid get used to a strong pellet gun, then shoot the rifle with him while hes shooting the pellet gun {I have pellet guns that are loud as a .22 and have way more recoil}. Thats what I did with my son, and hes a very good shot now... But Im still not going to let him aim at a deer until Im confident he can make a humane shot with a round that is going to leave little doubt...

One more thing--- the first firearm I ever let me son shoot {real rifle} was a marlin 336 lever in 30-30, its quiet and has almost no recoil, he actually still loves to shoot it, actually everyone does...
 
#10
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

I'd go with .243, or even a 7mm-08 but you could consider some of the .22 calibers. Better do your legal research, though, some western states mandate against using less than .24 caliber rounds on deer. Check the Mississippi regs.
 
#12
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

Careful, some of the early 6mm Remingtons, maybe called the 244 Remington had a 1-12" twist....not enough to stabilize the bullets you'll want for deer.

Get him a 243 or better yet a 260 that can be loaded light with 120 or so grain bullets.
 
#13
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

My daughter shoots a .243 Model Seven and my 7 yr old son shoots a .223 Remington bolt. The .223 loaded with 52 gr Barnes bullets is a suprisingly good deer killer. He has killed 6 deer the last 2 years and the furthest one went was 40 yards....all but one went down almost immediately. The one that went 40 yards was a 130 class buck. We shoot a lot and they both can place it where it needs to go and that is more important than the round.
 
#14
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

The 6.8SPC it is an awsome cartrige and equils the 303/270 that was used here in Australia for many years to shoot deer. Just shoot the 115gr CorLokt factory and you are good to go.
 
#16
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

I noticed that many that replied just named their pet caliber, without considering the vital information.
The guy is not a RL so many are ruled out. .223 is not a beginners hunting cal. it is a fair tool for a precision shooter.
.243 is about the kindest thing on the shoulder that can be shot in a rifle light enough for a child to use, and still kill well. I started my daughter at age 7 shooting a 22 rimfire, and only shot the .308 win at game. It has worked very well.
Suggestions like 25-06 make me wonder if the poster even read the question. I can hardley think of a worse blaster unless it were a .257 Weatherby.
Remember the muzzle blast will be more of a deterrent to accurate shooting than recoil for a child.
 
#19
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

I started my deer hunting career out with a Marlin 336 .30-30 and killed alot of deer with it. A few years later I upgraded to a Rem 700 in .243 and loved it! It did everything I wanted it to do as far as killing deer! A couple years later I thought I needed a "bigger gun" so I purchased a Ruger Mk77 .300 Win Mag. It didn't take long to realize that the .243 killed the deer just as dead, just as fast and was much easier on my shoulder and my dad's wallet when purchasing ammo! LOL. If I were gonna buy a deer rifle for a kid today, it would be a .243 hands down. I know the 7mm-08 is a great round, I've taken deer with it too, and I'm sure the .260 is great also. However, you said that your friend isn't and won't be a reloader and I think that in a pinch ammo for the .243 would be easier to find and a better selection available at places like Wal-Mart than for the other two calibers. Just my opinion.
 
#20
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.223 is not a beginners hunting cal. it is a fair tool for a precision shooter.
</div></div>

I have to disagree. The .223 loaded with proper bullets and not varmint bullets is very good. Either handloaded 52 gr or bought Cor-Bon 52 gr Barnes and 60 gr Nosler partitions do the job very well. To me it is the perfect young shooters deer rifle...no kick...moderate muzzle blast and kills cleanly. It has to be with the correct bullets and not a frangible. If they are not able to shoot vitals routinely at modest ranges they shouldn't be hunting with any caliber. Here are a couple .223 kills by a good shot but not a precision shooter....it kills well doe sized or big bucks and this is from real field results on a good many deer by my kids from 6-9 years old....it just plain works:

IMG_7216Copy.jpg


IMG_7171Copy.jpg
 
#25
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.223 is not a beginners hunting cal. it is a fair tool for a precision shooter.
</div></div>

I have to disagree. The .223 loaded with proper bullets and not varmint bullets is very good. Either handloaded 52 gr or bought Cor-Bon 52 gr Barnes and 60 gr Nosler partitions do the job very well. To me it is the perfect young shooters deer rifle...no kick...moderate muzzle blast and kills cleanly. It has to be with the correct bullets and not a frangible. If they are not able to shoot vitals routinely at modest ranges they shouldn't be hunting with any caliber. Here are a couple .223 kills by a good shot but not a precision shooter....it kills well doe sized or big bucks and this is from real field results on a good many deer by my kids from 6-9 years old....it just plain works:

IMG_7216Copy.jpg


IMG_7171Copy.jpg
</div></div>


Like the man said....it is not a beginners hunting round. You need to reload to achieve the standards most of us strive for, even in a hunting round. The OP specifically stated in his original post that the owner does not and will not reload. BTW nice whitetails!

ETA: I'd go with a Remington 700 or 770 for a starter rifle in .243. Light on the recoil and PLENTY of commercially produced hunting rounds. I know Academy sells the Remington 700 ADL in .243 for like $320ish.....
 
#26
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

243, 30-30, or 223 get my vote. Especially the 30-30, but am not sure if it available in the model 7. I have my grandfathers Winchester 94 30-30 that has taken hundreds of deer over the years and is a real pleasure to shoot.
 
#27
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

dhutch...thanks...the kids love to deer hunt! He will not have to reload Federal loads the 60 partition in their Vital-shock line and Cor-Bon loads the DPX Barnes in 52 and 62 gr. No need to reload.
 
#28
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dhutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like the man said....it is not a beginners hunting round. You need to reload to achieve the standards most of us strive for, even in a hunting round. The OP specifically stated in his original post that the owner does not and will not reload. BTW nice whitetails! </div></div>

Wrong. I'm sorry that you believe that, but the fact is that there are numerous commercial, factory loaded .223 Remington rounds that will get the job done cleanly and ethically on whitetail-size game provided: 1) shot placement is proper; 2) you keep the max range of the shot less than 200yds (which shouldn't be a problem for a "beginner" anyway); and 3) that it is legal to hunt with the round in your particular state (check your local/state laws and/or fish and game ordnances re: legality).

Here are a few examples of some of the rounds that I am talking about:

1) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=171151

2) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=319773

3) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=467277

4) http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=938291

There are other examples that are currently available on the market, including loads with Nosler partitions and similar bullets...all of which perform well on deer. I have personally used .223 ammo with the Barnes TSX bullets to take deer and I have seen others do the same. They are very effective and a great option for those who are recoil sensitive or just starting out.
 
#29
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

I appreciate everyone's responses so far. I figured this thread would have varying opinions, but most are in line with what I thought and it's nice to get others perspectives.
 
#30
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

My little 7yr old daughter killed a cow elk at 102 yards with her Rem 700 .243 AI
sput5j.jpg


This kill was made using FACTORY Remington Extended Range .243 105gr Ammo. This rifle shoots(while fire forming)this ammo at .5"@100 yards. I would've let her take a shot no farther than 300 yards. She was actually disappointed it was only 102!

Here in New Mexico a .223 is not allowed to hunt big game. 6mm/.243 is the smallest caliber allowed.

Each of my daughters have had their own .22LR rifles since they were each 4 years old. From the .22LR came use of a Rem 700 .223 and then this .243 pictured. This .243 weighs 17lbs as pictured. The girls do not carry it in the field, I do.
 
#32
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

Too funny.
Right after the OP clearly stated that the person in question will absolutely NOT reload, comes a couple of suggestions for a round with something other than factory loaded ammunition.

A model seven will limit your choices.

Here are my suggestions, I am not positive that they are all available chamberings in the seven.

.250 Savage
.300 savage
.243
.260
7-08 reduced recoil ammo
.308 reduced recoil ammo
6.8 SPC
.257 roberts
6mm

Also, a CZ in 7.62x39 is a dandy deer getter, provided the range is kept to 150 yards or so.
I believe the .308 reduced recoil ammo uses a 125 grain bullet and should be very effective on deer.

A ruger mini 14 in 6.8 would make an excellent choice, providing semi-auto's are legal.
 
#33
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

The .223 will do the job but it's "design/intent" is not for large game hunting like some other caliber's that were designed for deer hunting, regardless of opinion. I can take a deer with a .22 under the right circumstances but it doesn't mean it's a preferred round. You can hunt a deer with a .50 BMG as well, but again it's not designed for deer.

Just my opinion FWIW,
MS
 
#35
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

My 10 year old has killed 3 deer over the last 3 years with a .223. I shoot them with a .223 all the time.

With that said, I would lean toward a .243 for a new hunter.
The reason for this is that my boys shots were not as precise as I would like with a .223. All were within 6" of POA and recovered but.... it made me a little uneasy. LOTS of trigger time this year!

Hope this helps.
Trilogymac
 
#36
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too funny.
Right after the OP clearly stated that the person in question will absolutely NOT reload, comes a couple of suggestions for a round with something other than factory loaded ammunition.</div></div>

You assume that everyone buys their ammo at Wal-Mart with a Remington logo on the side of the box.

If I was going to take the time and money to buy a kid the right rifle for them to start with and grow into then I wouldn't let the ammo stand in my way. There are dozens of smaller manufactures out there who either make what he's looking for or will for a very small premium.

If I didn't reload then I'd talk to Chad of dallasreloads.com and get the right bullet for the right gun.

http://www.dallasreloads.com/
 
#37
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

Started my daughter at eight years old with a 7mm Rem Mag!! She weighed 56 lbs. at the time and the shot was around 200. That was not how it was planned but that is how it worked out. She got her deer and I went and got a Remmy in 7mm08 afterwards. My son started last year at seven years old and took two deer with the 7-08. I advised a close friend on this caliber for his young son and he has been tickled with his in a Stevens 200 model. His sons first deer with it was a brusier!! For a youngster I would say 7mm-08 for sure, plenty of gun to grow with and hunt practically anything with in the lower 48.
 
#38
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

With many male shooters, the opinion seems to be "ya gotta use a magnum" for that monster buck, elk, or whatever. Of course, thousands upon thousands of data points disprove that myth and the 243AI kill on a cow elk shown above is a case in point.

However, I think we can all agree, you can go too far in the other direction as well. We have little coues deer in AZ that usually weigh around 100lbs or less and a 223 would be just fine for that animal. But isn't the larger 243WIN just a much more flexible choice? Why on earth would anyone buy a 223 for hunting large game when you can just as easily get a 243 with just a tiny increase in recoil? The 243 allows you to shoot at longer ranges, at larger game, with less drop and drift. It's flat out a better performer and the recoil is pleasant even to youngsters. I love my 223 ARs and use them for coyotes & coues. But the 243 is a much better choice for large game.
 
#40
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I noticed that many that replied just named their pet caliber, without considering the vital information.
The guy is not a RL so many are ruled out. .223 is not a beginners hunting cal. it is a fair tool for a precision shooter.
.243 is about the kindest thing on the shoulder that can be shot in a rifle light enough for a child to use, and still kill well. I started my daughter at age 7 shooting a 22 rimfire, and only shot the .308 win at game. It has worked very well.
Suggestions like 25-06 make me wonder if the poster even read the question. I can hardley think of a worse blaster unless it were a .257 Weatherby.
Remember the muzzle blast will be more of a deterrent to accurate shooting than recoil for a child. </div></div>


This^^^

is right on the money. Yes I've killed deer with a 223, but for a first time hunter? I don't think so. To be ethical the smallest I would recommend is a 243, as has been mentioned. With the proper projectile and proper shot placement you can kill a deer with a fackin blow gun if you want. Really though a 243 with light loads wont recoil or blast enough to scare or hurt any child that actually WANTS to shoot. Personally I started out deer hunting with a Savage 99e in 308 with a thin metal buttplate and 180g full house loads, but I was 12 years old and 5'6" so I could handle it fine. Also I know Rem has made some reduced recoil loads for deer calibers, albeit I'm not sure if they included the 243 in there, if so that's the ticket.
 
#42
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too funny.
Right after the OP clearly stated that the person in question will absolutely NOT reload, comes a couple of suggestions for a round with something other than factory loaded ammunition.</div></div>

You assume that everyone buys their ammo at Wal-Mart with a Remington logo on the side of the box.
</div></div>While I know not all do, quite a few hunters I know go to Walmart and buy their ammo. They either shoot Winchester, Federal, or Remington. This is 98% of the hunters I know. I know a one guy that uses Hornady ammo, and another who is going to try Federal Premium Vital Shok or whatever ammo this year. Other than that they go to Walmart. I think this is about the norm in the hunting world.
 
#43
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too funny.
Right after the OP clearly stated that the person in question will absolutely NOT reload, comes a couple of suggestions for a round with something other than factory loaded ammunition.</div></div>

You assume that everyone buys their ammo at Wal-Mart with a Remington logo on the side of the box.

If I was going to take the time and money to buy a kid the right rifle for them to start with and grow into then I wouldn't let the ammo stand in my way. There are dozens of smaller manufactures out there who either make what he's looking for or will for a very small premium.

If I didn't reload then I'd talk to Chad of dallasreloads.com and get the right bullet for the right gun.

http://www.dallasreloads.com/ </div></div>

You assume the guy that just wants a rifle for his kid is going to buy semi-custom ammunition. Most of your average joe's don't spend 40 bucks for a box of ammo when the good old winchester or remington fare that has been working for 70 years is still good enough.
I think my assumption is the safer one.
 
#44
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">223 has killed many deer, and many people.

I recommend it. </div></div>

So has beer and cars.

I'm not the best hunter in the world and would never claim to be if I was. But i've been on 1000's of hunt's and bagged many a game large and small.

It's to fu.... easy. Don't buy your sone a .223 to hunt deer. If people want to hunt deer with a .223 "small whitey or not" the round is NOT DESIGNED for deer hunting bottom line.

If you want your son to shoot something that's not going to half moon his forehead, get him something that's designed for deer and doesn't kick as much. I can't recommend a better rifle than the 250 savage in lever action. It also make's for a great brush gun. You can hunt anything from deer to elk with it very easily.

Don't buy a .223 if your intent is to hunt deer with it. You can hunt elk with a .223 as well but that doesn't make it right.

Go to an actual hunting forum and ask this question. Experienced hunter's will tell you the same thing some of the member's in here are.

FWIW,
MS
 
#45
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

I've done plenty of hunting and a 223 is too light for deer. I don't care how good of a shot you are, how meticulous your reloading practices are, or what kind of ammunition you utilize. You won’t put it through the pump station every single time. Can you kill a deer with a 223? You sure as heck can. Can you kill a deer with a 22? Yep. Does it make it ethical, NO! It all comes down to your respect for the animal. I've been around hunting my entire life with some very experienced hunters, I've never seen a 223 during deer season. A 243 is the lowest I would go.
 
#46
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

While 243 is a good choice for deer, I still shy away for a beginner. Add novice hunter with buck fever and you have the makings of a bad mistake. A flinch or mishandling of the rifle sends the 243 a long ways down range. I like the round nosed 30-30. Easy to shoot and drops like a rock after 200 yards.

Want a little more range? As one poster said 7.62x39. My neighbor and I have killed dozens of big Wisconsin whitetales with a pair of SKS rifles and store bought HP ammo.

Another good choice would be a 357 or 44 Mag lever gun.

And in defense of the 223, I have witnessed more deer killed by a 22 mag than all of my rifles combined. I won't say who was behind the trigger, because rimfire is illegal for deer. Out of all the deer that were shot (25+), only one was not recovered.
 
#47
Re: Deer Capable Caliber for a Small Child

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: guntard007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While 243 is a good choice for deer, I still shy away for a beginner. Add novice hunter with buck fever and you have the makings of a bad mistake. A flinch or mishandling of the rifle sends the 243 a long ways down range. I like the round nosed 30-30. Easy to shoot and drops like a rock after 200 yards.

Want a little more range? As one poster said 7.62x39. My neighbor and I have killed dozens of big Wisconsin whitetales with a pair of SKS rifles and store bought HP ammo.

Another good choice would be a 357 or 44 Mag lever gun.

And in defense of the 223, <span style="font-weight: bold">I have witnessed more deer killed by a 22 mag than all of my rifles combined</span>. I won't say who was behind the trigger, because rimfire is illegal for deer. Out of all the deer that were shot (25+), only one was not recovered. </div></div>

So what your implying is that, out of ALL your rifle's the preferred caliber is the .22 mag for deer hunting? What your saying makes no sense at all.

First of all, you should of been handed that daisy air rifle when you were very young so you learned about gun safety and applied it. I got my first kill's on dove, rabbit, quail with a air rifle. Not long after I was given a .22 for the 1st time. I got REALLY good with every rifle before graduating up to the next. I went from the .22 to the 250 Savage and 30/30.

The point being you don't just hand someone a 50 caliber w/ no muzzle break and expect them to learn much. Once you SCARe someone like that it takes a lot of time to teach them not to inticipate recoil and or flinch.

No poon intended,
MS
 
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