Defiance or American Rifle Company

[mikejs]

I am looking at building a 6.5 PRC. And before it is discussed, I am set on short action. I am willing to deal with issues if they come up with a 6.5 PRC in a short action since it is my choice.
Anyway, I have it narrowed down to Defiance Classic and American Rifle Company Coup De Grace actions. I like them both for separate reasons, but want opinions of what people own. Looking at a carbon fiber barrel in a Manner's stock, if that makes a difference. I have picked these for reviews I have already seen, and for weight and price. I have actually called both companies to ask questions. ARC had the better customer service, although neither was bad.

My initial concerns are that there seems to be more fitment required by the ARC Coup De Grace, but the lead time is much better. There are more Defiance Classics sold, so I may get more comments on those of course.

What's the good, bad, and ugly from people that own one or the other or both?

 

[JAS-SH]

I'm not aware of the fitting problems. I've been shooting a Defiance "Classic" for about 5 or so years on my 6 ARC bolt. Mine is a custom "hybrid" using the coned nose from the Elite actions along with the leaf ejector. I believe that comes from Winchester originally.

I prefer that to the plunger ejectors although I just bought a Ruckus with the plunger.

Best action I've ever used. It is so smooth it borders on incredibly so. Mine has around 2700 rounds on it and it is still exactly the same as when I got it. (cleaning regimen applies - including bolt disassembly every 1000 rounds which is very easy).

I like the way it works so much that I have a Defiant Ruckus on an UPS truck going to my FFL as I write this. That will be for a new 6mm GT build.

 

[mikejs]

The fitment was about the ARC action, and not fitment problems, just that you have to do more fitting for the trigger to fit in the bottom metal since it is an adjustable hanger.

 

[AllenOne1]

I'll give a thumbs up for the ARC CDG. I have one of the earliest ones and it has been a great purchase. Never a day that I regret buying it. I do regret that I didn't buy another one before the price increase, but it's well worth the current price IMO. I didn't experience any "fitment" issues so I'm not sure where that's coming from.

 

[glock24]

It's been a while since I've shopped ARC. Are they only building the CDG action now? And if so, why? (is the CDG Ted's pinnacle design or something?)

 

[mikejs]

I'll give a thumbs up for the ARC CDG. I have one of the earliest ones and it has been a great purchase. Never a day that I regret buying it. I do regret that I didn't buy another one before the price increase, but it's well worth the current price IMO. I didn't experience any "fitment" issues so I'm not sure where that's coming from.

The fitment comment came from ARC themselves when I called them. They said depending on the trigger hanger adjustment, there maybe a little milling (but very little) in the bottom metal.

 

[BigOldPhatboy]

I am looking at building a 6.5 PRC. And before it is discussed, I am set on short action. I am willing to deal with issues if they come up with a 6.5 PRC in a short action since it is my choice.
Anyway, I have it narrowed down to Defiance Classic and American Rifle Company Coup De Grace actions. I like them both for separate reasons, but want opinions of what people own. Looking at a carbon fiber barrel in a Manner's stock, if that makes a difference. I have picked these for reviews I have already seen, and for weight and price. I have actually called both companies to ask questions. ARC had the better customer service, although neither was bad.

My initial concerns are that there seems to be more fitment required by the ARC Coup De Grace, but the lead time is much better. There are more Defiance Classics sold, so I may get more comments on those of course.

What's the good, bad, and ugly from people that own one or the other or both?

I have both and I like the ARC better because of the replaceable bold head (when I choose to go another direction), the permenant pick rail & recoil lug, longer ejection port.

 

[JAS-SH]

Can't go wrong with either. The reason is that they both take prefit barrels, which is the trend these day. The reason they take prefits is because they are both considered premium actions. There is more than that like repeatability of the action barrel threads for timing etc. I'll leave it there because there really is a lot involved.

And I just got mine new action today - its massive:

 

[ZY100]

I have had both brands for years, one of the first Nukes, CDG, Deviants and Ruckus'. Happy with them all.....

- ARC is more complex, more moving parts, pivoting bolt handle. some stock/chassis fitment probable, tuning the trigger timing with a set screw is nice....and I like Ted!
- Defiance...a little more $, rock solid, gets it done. I have a Deviant with at least 20k 6.5, 6BRA, 22 BR on it...I think I did replace an ejector spring...good people too. Slight tip of the scales to Defiance if you are going to be in field/dusty conditions a lot. (Note: Defiance increased their bolt/body tolerance a few years ago--that issue is OBE)

One thing I have found about changing bolt heads, swapping barrels, etc. I seldom do it. Unless its a true QC (AI, WTO) etc, it sounds good, but seldom is done. But to each their own...good luck!

No wrong answer...pick one and don't give it any more thought.

 

[Zhomeguy]

You need this….the “v” cut feed ramp will help with squeezing bit more length n smoothly feeding…that 6.5 PRC

 

[Birch7]

Fitment depends upon your stock/chassis. I had to modify both chassis and mag for CDG on an aero solus. Defiance is smoother and less lift, in my experience.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Think about this. Until the newer defiance actions, they were not prefit capable. That means they did not have consistent headspace across actions of the same model. When you go to look up their tenon prints, It says they only provide to "qualified gunsmiths" (whatever the fuck that is).

The under their prefit section they have this gem:

Defiance is a manufacturer of high-quality bolt-actions. Because of the bolt and receiver combination in the anTi, anTi X, Ruckus, Renegade, and Classic actions we can achieve headspace consistencies of +/- .001” action to action. These dimensions remain the same across these actions, so any “pre-fit” barrel advertised for any of them will work will all of them. The decision of a builder to use a Defiance action with a barrel designated as “pre-fit” is the decision of the builder. On our actions that have a guaranteed headspace we can maintain this consistency, but have no control over the quality and consistency of barrel manufacturers or gun builders’ machining abilities.

Pre-fitting a barrel is possible, but only when you have consistently machined actions, and an equally precise chambering of barrels. Defiance’s position on pre-fits is; if you choose to use pre-fit barrels on our actions, you should only do so if final fit up is done by a reputable gunsmith to insure proper headspace and fit.


The reality is, they didn't even make a headspace controlled action until everyone else was doing it and they started to loose their market share.
Now maybe some of you guys can explain to me how CNC machined actions and bolts using the same program, same acceptance standards, ect can have different headspace, other than lack of skill on the designer/operator. Before "pre-fits" were even a thing, superior actions like surgeon could actually take what we now consider a prefit because they were kept within tolerance. Meanwhile they are letting everyone and their brother OEM their action and selling stuff at a premium price, that requires a gunsmith. Then they jack up the prices after old owner runs business into the dirt.

Now its up to you what you think is a better value and product but if it was me, it would be the CDG by a country mile. The Defiance classic is actually a very nice simple budget action, but the CDG is alot more action for the money and everyone I know who runs them in competitions swears by them. I haven't heard one bad thing about a CDG in the last 2 years of comps.

IMO the action is not the part to cheap out on. In a day and age of integral lugs and rails that cannot ever fail, IMO its silly to not go with the best of the current tech. In the long run, the action cost difference is pennies. Don't cheap out on an action.

 

[CMP70306]

Personal opinion from someone who owns a CDG and built a Defiance for my Dad, if you aren’t going with an Anti-X or some other lightweight action go with the CDG. The Defiance is basically a slightly smoother 700, it’s really nothing special especially for the price that it brings.

The CDG has the benefit of the pivoting bolt handle and changeable bolt head, I regularly swap rifle parts around so that is important to me. The only fitment issue would be some stocks not having clearance for the trigger hanger. The MDT chassis and Manners Mini Chassis were cut out but I had to dremel an AG Composites, McMillan and Manners without a mini chassis.

 

[TheOE800]

Now maybe some of you guys can explain to me how CNC machined actions and bolts using the same program, same acceptance standards, ect can have different headspace, other than lack of skill on the designer/operator. Before "pre-fits" were even a thing, superior actions like surgeon could actually take what we now consider a prefit because they were kept within tolerance. Meanwhile they are letting everyone and their brother OEM their action and selling stuff at a premium price, that requires a gunsmith. Then they jack up the prices after old owner runs business into the dirt.

The Deviant bolt isn’t made in one op or whatever and that’s why it’s not prefit capable or what have you, or so Defiance explained to me.

 

[Tex68w]

The only Defiance I would own is the Anti-X and that's for a very specific use, light weight hunting setup. I've never owned an ARC action so I can't speak to those. I have a few Bighorn TL3 actions and have never been disappointed with those.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I think the CDG does almost all of what it intends to do extremely well. Because you're planning to run 6.5PRC, my biggest complaint likely won't matter to you, but it throws brass all over the place, including significantly forward. For PRS and similar competitors, this makes it much harder to get all your brass back on a stage, and depending on how a range handles going in front of the prop, you might be prohibited from policing like half your brass.

Doesn't sound like that'll be a design concern for you though.

 

[Long Range 338]

The CDG is miles ahead of the Defiance actions in terms of features and ingenuity. The only figment issue is with the trigger hanger and stock/chassis needing to be inletted. It’s a bit of a PITA but it’s a one time issue. Personally I haven’t seen the need for the trigger hanger but many claim it to be a modern necessity.

Defiance makes a fine REM 700 clone action but not enough to justify the price. If light bolt lift is important, to the point you are willing to deal with a 90* bolt throw then rock on.

If I was looking for a 700 clone, the Mack bros is a better action at a better price