Rifle Scopes Deployed troop seeking advice

N

nicknacc

Private
Minuteman
Apr 9, 2012
7
0
37
RC-E Afghanistan
#1
Hello fellow shooters.My name isNic, I'm an Infantryman in the (US) Army currently serving in mountains of Eastern Afghanistan.

I come here a bit ill-equiped of knowledge as well as gear. Long story short, my unit was deployed shortly after being re-activated, and we are short handed in the department of long guns. However, when I got to the FOB I currently reside at, I have been able to get my hands on an M-14. Old school M-14, not an EBR. It's been neglected but I'm workin on it, and it'll absolutely get the job done. The biggest problem I'm facing is acquiring an optic. Since Uncle Sam is unable to provide me with an optic, I'm left with the option of spending my own money.

I was recommended to this site by a weapons enthusiast back home, that said knowledgeable folks here might be able to be of some assistance.

I am looking for suggestions for types of optics and where to purchase. I've never purchased one civilian side, as everything I've used has been what the Army issued me. I know I'll get what I pay for, but I'm not looking to break the bank if I don't have to.

Thank you in advance.
 
#2
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

This is a great site to get help, but you'll need to provide some more details on type of use.

how far do you expect to engage targets?
 
#3
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

So your unit is letting you "work" on an M-14 that you found? I realize that I got out of the Army and Combat arms in 2002 after 13 years of service , but either much has changed or something isnt right here. Whats you Unit and MOS?
 
#4
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

First of all the mount is going to make or break what ever optic you chose.

I recommend the SADLAK three point mount. I sent 100 rifles into Iraq in 2004 with this mount the troops loved it and Mike Sadlak was gracious enough to come down to Ft. Drum and help install the initial 20. It is very easy to install with basic tools(all of which are found in the basic small arms repair tool kit.

Price from Brownell's is around $200.00 (let them know you're a GI deployed and I think you'll get the dealer price)

2nd Item will be the rings. I like the Badger Ordnance .308 low steel rings

The optic finally can range from a fixed 10X Super Sniper from SWFA Inc. less than $300 (good solid scope its what I sent to Iraq)

next is a Vortex PST 4-16 FFP Mil/Mil $880.00 very nice scope with a lot of good features

Leopold 3.5-10X

and on the up

I recommend the Vortex PST FFP 4-16 it offers good magnification, mils correct at all magnifications, zero stop and illuminated recticule
 
#5
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

TBannister don't be shocked, my son is in the 10th mountain div and they are typical of the Army now. In Garrison everyone is looking to get their property books to zero and have as few issues as possible. When in theater if you can make it work and NOT cause an officer especially an Infantry Officer any trouble they really don't push any issues.
 
#6
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpspeeddemon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a great site to get help, but you'll need to provide some more details on type of use.

how far do you expect to engage targets?

</div></div>

Usually within 1000m.
 
#7
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your unit is letting you "work" on an M-14 that you found? I realize that I got out of the Army and Combat arms in 2002 after 13 years of service , but either much has changed or something isnt right here. Whats you Unit and MOS? </div></div>

If you're implying I'm a poser you're mistaken, friend. I'm familiar with online military communities, if there is an admin here that would like to verify my service, I'd be happy to...


To answer your questions I was originally 19D, and became 11B qualified, which I am currently slotted as, in the 1-143rd (A)
 
#9
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: surveil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpspeeddemon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a great site to get help, but you'll need to provide some more details on type of use.

how far do you expect to engage targets?

</div></div>

Usually within 1000m.

</div></div>

How much money do you have to spend?
Do you think you'll need an illuminated reticle for lowlight engagments?
 
#10
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

No problem, just struck me as an odd 1st post.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: surveil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your unit is letting you "work" on an M-14 that you found? I realize that I got out of the Army and Combat arms in 2002 after 13 years of service , but either much has changed or something isnt right here. Whats you Unit and MOS? </div></div>

If you're implying I'm a poser you're mistaken, friend. I'm familiar with online military communities, if there is an admin here that would like to verify my service, I'd be happy to...


To answer your questions I was originally 19D, and became 11B qualified, which I am currently slotted as, in the 1-143rd (A) </div></div>
 
#11
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your unit is letting you "work" on an M-14 that you found? I realize that I got out of the Army and Combat arms in 2002 after 13 years of service , but either much has changed or something isnt right here. Whats you Unit and MOS? </div></div>

A lot of m14's were brought out of storage or reconditioned for service from 2001-2006. I was issued one in 2004-2005.

I replaced New York Infantry guys who were issued M14's and the 101'st guys that replaced me had M14's.

The New York guys had bought optics (ACOGS and ARMS mounts). We were issued MKIV 3.5-10 M1 tactical Leupolds on BMT mounts. The 101 guys had some with optics and some bone stock with Iron sights.

I'm sure there are a lot of M14's floating around in Infantry unit inventory at this point if there hasn't been any official decision to pull the guns back.


<span style="font-weight: bold">If you are looking for a good optic for low price, there are a lot of options.

I thought these looked high value
http://swfa.com/Weaver-3-15x50-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P49448.aspx

Or you might be able to pick up a used Leupold 3.5-10x40 M3.

You may also be able to put in a request with units leaving the theater for one.

The problem is that much below that $700 threshold, you might compromise quality.

This BSA 4-14x44 might be a flying turd, or an awesome deal for $249.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/456482/...d-reticle-matte


The customer reviews of the BSA are very good. You might find that and a quality mount to be a good combination to save your money.

PRI rings are $90 on midway and are probably a high quality product. The sadlak base for $150 is probably a good base. The $90 promag might be good, and if the $50 millet worked it would be a great deal.

You might find that buying the optic and getting mounts from the Army, or buying the mounts and getting an optic from the Army or getting everything from the Army is possible so talk to your supply sergeant.
</span>
 
#12
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Hello Nic,

First and foremost, thank you for your service!

I think we might be able to give you a hand. Shoot me a pm with your email address and we will see what we can do
wink.gif


Regards,
Ken
US Army Ret.
 
#13
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kahles USA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello Nic,

First and foremost, thank you for your service!

I think we might be able to give you a hand. Shoot me a pm with your email address and we will see what we can do
wink.gif


Regards,
Ken
US Army Ret. </div></div>


You do good by him please!!!
 
#14
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

This is outrageous.
Sorry if this is out of place on this forum but is this really how our military is treated these days? not only do you put your ass on the line but are expected to pay for your own equipment too?!
I admit I have never served but look on with great respect and admiration but this makes my blood boil. For all the BS these politicians take money for you would think after 10 years of making folks do repeat tours they would at least provide the basics.
just shaking my head in disbelief.
 
#15
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Amen. Things are just as bad at home. As an ER nurse I see people that are in our country illegally get whatever they want for free while at the same time Tricare just gets worse.
 
#17
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macfly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is outrageous.
Sorry if this is out of place on this forum but is this really how our military is treated these days? not only do you put your ass on the line but are expected to pay for your own equipment too?!
I admit I have never served but look on with great respect and admiration but this makes my blood boil. For all the BS these politicians take money for you would think after 10 years of making folks do repeat tours they would at least provide the basics.
just shaking my head in disbelief.
</div></div>

In my military time I bought a lot of my own equipment. That didn't mean I had to. I got some equipment from American Snipers.org and I've donated equipment back to them in an effort to show appreciation for their help. American Snipers.org can sometimes supply items that the Army is not willing to issue, or that are higher quality than standard issue equipment.

There is also a military system in place for this sort of thing. You can requisition items directly from units leaving theater as a unit entering theater with a mission critical need.

If the supply sergeant sucks, his lack of knowledge and skills can create equipment deficiencies, but that is not the same as "DOD failing to issue appropriate equipment".

The only items I'm aware of that are typically (with no system for correcting this deficiency) in short supply are sound suppressors. DOD frowns on them, so Snipers and SF soldiers are the only places suppressors get issued.

If you can demonstrate a mission critical need, you may even be able to requisition genuine sniper systems M110's etc from units leaving the theater. The Army isn't the most efficient system but there are channels designed for this sort of problem and having skilled and motivated personnel assigned to the unit helps to prevent these problems from happening.

Every unit has an MTOE- and the items on those lists are in a computer database in the Army supply system. Deficiencies to your MTOE can be filled with equipment requisitioned from other units.

The only situation in which this solution won't work is if command has deemed that the equipment is not necessary for your mission, in which case the items will not be missing on your MTOE because (either they aren't needed) or the morons in charge have not seen fit to put them on the MTOE in the first place.

That is a government problem and also an Army problem. The politicians in government often influence the military to promote "politicians" and "career oriented" into leadership positions rather than military leaders as would obviously be the best fit. This of course creates issues where the system has problems because the politician-leader is not suited to the task of military planning and mistakes are made.
 
#20
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kahles USA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I have him squared away with glass :)Now for the mounts, Sadlak or what are your gents thoughts? Need a 34mm setup for a M-14.

</div></div>

That is bad ass right there! Thank you very much for helping this Soldier out...Now you go and kill some folks with that set up and keep your ass safe!
 
#21
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kahles USA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I have him squared away with glass :)Now for the mounts, Sadlak or what are your gents thoughts? Need a 34mm setup for a M-14.

</div></div>

K312?
 
#22
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Spot on, gonna send him a K312, now I am trying to put together a good top notch mounting apparatus. I don't own a M-14 and honestly don't know much about the best way to go with mounts. Any feedback for us would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Ken
 
#23
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kahles USA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spot on, gonna send him a K312, now I am trying to put together a good top notch mounting apparatus. I don't own a M-14 and honestly don't know much about the best way to go with mounts. Any feedback for us would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Ken </div></div>

Bassett or Sadlak mounts are supposed to be good M-14/M1A mounts. I use a McCanns Industries mount from years ago because it sits so low, which I perfer, but it doesn't allow for use of the iron sights. I believe Bassett and Sadlak makes mounts that allow for use of the iron sights. I'd call these manufactures and pick their brains a bit before I make a decision here. Also, he'll probably benifit with an adjustable cheek weld like one of those nylon types that strap onto the butt stock. I run Badger Ordance rings on my bolt rifles. But they are the steel ones and are kind of heavy.
 
#25
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

It depends on his experience and familiarity of the M14. A Bassett is is simplest to install if he's not familiar with the system. I feel the Sadlak would be a little sturdier though.
 
#27
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Also, he'll probably benifit with an adjustable cheek weld like one of those nylon types that strap onto the butt stock... </div></div>

From TNVC:

http://www.tnvc.com/shop/tnvc-rsp-mod-0/

That or MOD1

Love seeing things like this to help our guys out.
 
#28
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Great idea!,

I'll give Vic a call and see if we can't pick one of these up too. TNVC makes great gear and this should be a great setup!


Really appreciate the feedback guys!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooterman017</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Also, he'll probably benifit with an adjustable cheek weld like one of those nylon types that strap onto the butt stock... </div></div>

From TNVC:

http://www.tnvc.com/shop/tnvc-rsp-mod-0/

That or MOD1

Love seeing things like this to help our guys out. </div></div>
 
#29
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Does the K312 scope have a 50mm objective or a 55.9mm (56mm) objective? The "G" dimension in your spec sheet is 55.9mm. Probably the finish diameter of the objective bell end of the scope though. Using the irons is probably a mute point or "no can do" with this large of objective.
 
#30
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Regarding mount:

I prefer the 3-point mounts to the 2-point like the Basset particularly for a rough-use application (although the Basset Mounts generally do get good reviews).

Here would be my choice(s) in order of preference:

1. Smith Enterprises M2006 rock solid, excellent machining, and he has been know to help-out our guys in service; suggest you give Ron a call.

1A. Sadlak Lightweight Mount also very nice. It doesn't apply here but for you M1A guys they will custom fit a mount to a non-spec receiver if necessary.

I've also heard good things about the GDI M14 Mount although I personally don't like the rearward extension over the rear sight, others will swear by it so YMMV.

FWIW definitely recommend you avoid the Springfield Armory mounts as they won't hold zero and I'd also avoid the ARMS mounts, although admittedly that's more for personal reasons.

Hope this helps; PL
 
#31
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the K312 scope have a 50mm objective or a 55.9mm (56mm) objective? The "G" dimension in your spec sheet is 55.9mm. Probably the finish diameter of the objective bell end of the scope though. Using the irons is probably a mute point or "no can do" with this large of objective. </div></div>

The K312 does have a 50mm objective so using back up sights may be difficult.
 
#32
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macfly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is outrageous.
Sorry if this is out of place on this forum but is this really how our military is treated these days? not only do you put your ass on the line but are expected to pay for your own equipment too?!
I admit I have never served but look on with great respect and admiration but this makes my blood boil. For all the BS these politicians take money for you would think after 10 years of making folks do repeat tours they would at least provide the basics.
just shaking my head in disbelief.
</div></div>

This does seem odd that the Military cant supply troops with proper gear. A few weeks age a friend of mine who is a Marine and is in a tank Battalion Need spotting scope's and contacted me to see if I could help. I put him in touch with Sam at Vortex and Sam Got them Spotting scopes. Since then I own a few more Vortex optics products
 
#33
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nleaders</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I got to say is that my next scope purchase will be a Khales... Way to be! </div></div>

+1 to this, well above and beyond!
 
#34
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Good looking out Ken at Khales USA. Seems like surveil will be getting hooked up nicely.

That M14 stock pack from TNVC is badass, first time I've seen it

TNVCsl_1015.jpg


RSP_2.jpg


TNVCsl_1014.jpg



Actually, looking at this picture I like this whole setup for an M14.
TNVCsl_1012.jpg


Looks like two different height Badger rings to go with whatever rails those are. I bet that offset Micro T1 setup could come in handy on there also.

Ken you can pm me for a donation to help with this project. Let me know if you need it. It wouldn't be a whole lot but would help.

Thanks for your service surveil, it is much appreciated.

 
#35
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good looking out Ken at Khales USA. Seems like surveil will be getting hooked up nicely.

That M14 stock pack from TNVC is badass, first time I've seen it


Looks like two different height Badger rings to go with whatever rails those are. I bet that offset Micro T1 setup could come in handy on there also.

Ken you can pm me for a donation to help with this project. Let me know if you need it. It wouldn't be a whole lot but would help.

Thanks for your service surveil, it is much appreciated.

</div></div>


Great ideal redirt78, I would be more than happy to pitch in some as well!!
 
#36
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Surveil,

As said above, thanks for your service.

For those surprised that military personnel buy some of their own gear, it's far worse than you know. The pay makes any purchase painful, and good gear usually comes from MUCH saving or family/friends kicking in.

A cheek piece is a must, though the rifle is a great combat gun, it was not designed for an optic. Voice of experience.

Lastly, Kahles, thanks for your generosity, my next scope will also be a Kahles.
 
#37
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Sir, take my advice and experience for what its worth, YMMV. I have a serious hardon for the M14.

For mounts, by best advice is to go with a mount that is high enough or cut out drastically to let the spent brass eject. http://www.bassettmachine.com is one example.

I love Sadlak products (piston, tools, guide rod) and Mike is a great guy. Personally I have found problems with stove pipes using their Airborne Steel mount. Where 1 in 20 rounds would jam. Sometimes a little more, some times a little less. Looked something like this:
33.jpg


Sometimes brass would be seen like this after shooting a string
stovepipe2.jpg


Othertimes the brass would jam like this (possibly as a result of above)
stovepipe1.jpg


To try and remedy the problem I replaced the extractor, extractor spring and ejector spring and my brass was throwing properly out to 2 o'clock, but it did not fix it. Bottom line is you need a mount that is cutout or tall to let the brass do its thing on its way out.

As far as scopes Im sure the crew here has you covered.

For further research on accurizing your M14, check out M14forums.com, there is a wealth of information on that site. For some things you can do for yourself, you can check the timing of the gas lock and make sure it tightens up at 5-5:30 and locks down hard at 6 o'clock giving you room to insert the gas plug. This ensures a tight fight and less moving parts shaking around as shots are leaving the barrel. You can also check to ensure your barreled receiver has a tight fight with your stock, there are lots of ways you can rig/shim your stock for a tight fit which will ensure more consistent groups. Lastly, although its impossible to free float a M14, some rifles do shoot better with slight downward pressure on the gas cylinder/barrel. There are mods that can be done to the stock that use the ferrule to achieve this.

Be safe out there
 
#41
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

This makes me want to stand up and sing the national anthem.
Ken, you sir are a patriot!
And thank you surveil for your service. Kick ass and come home.
 
#42
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

Thank you for all the offers to help "surveil." He is my son, and I found this site for him from a family friend in Tacoma who owns the local shooting range. I can verify that everything he is saying is correct. I was shocked myself when he asked for help in finding optics for his rifle. I still don't understand how the military can put our soldiers out there not fully and properly equipped. A sniper without a scope? Amazing. I wish I could just go get whatever it is he needs and ship it off. Unfortunately I'm not financially in position to do it at this moment, so thank you again to any and all that are trying to help him get properly equipped. If any of you wanted to contact me for any reason I can be reached directly at [email protected]. Thanks again.
 
#45
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: surveil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, thanks guys. You all are too kind. Ken at Kahles is the man. I appreciate it greatly.

Have to go to work now, but I just wanted to say thank you for now.</div></div>

I know you have everything lined up for your rifle, but if anything falls through give me a holler, I will pull the ARMS #18 mount off my M14s and have it to you ASAFP. It's not the best mount, but it did me just fine during my tour, and hasn't broken yet. Also, if your rifle still has the original design flash suppressor, let me know I can pull off the Primary Weapons unit I have as well and get that out, helps with muzzle climb a ton and you can still use the iron sights.

I was in and around Baghdad Dec03 to Jan05, and when I went wheels up from Ft. Lewis I had a bunch of Tactical Tailor gear and a PASGT flack vest in hand. Thankfully they had IBAs for us in Kuwait when we arrived. I drove north from Udari in a soft-skinned M998 with hillbilly armor. I bought my own ACOG, and when I was handed an M14, I slapped on an old Leupold my dad sent out. We picked up M2's from 2ACR when they were packing their bags, and acquired more armored vehicles when they became available. I 'loaned' a can of 9mm ball to a postal company to get them to battle load levels for their drive back home, as their unit only gave them 5rds in a mag. Since this trooper said he was "called up" I have no doubt his supply NCO is worthless as a dick in a convent, and not willing to go that extra mile to ensure the unit is well taken care of.

Before we all damn the government and those who run it, lets not forget that the system is NOT perfect, it takes active people within it to make it work.. and that's what this trooper is doing!
 
#46
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

This is just a feel good post. As a Marine it makes me feel good others are willing to help a Soldier in need. Good job Khales USA!!

Jason
 
#47
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

If you are headed through Bagram stop by the SASC shop it is by warrior living area in the maintenance shops. Ask around people will help you get there. Explain the situation to Matt or Tim or Top. One of these men will be able to give you or tell you were to get all the paper work to request one of the on hand rifles they keep in storage for this exact reason. If you have a mission needs statement from your commander it might help speed things along. Chances are pretty good you would get either the M110 which when I left the other day they still had some or a refurbed EBR chassis. Haven't been able to get new chassis as Rock Island has to assemble them at RI. There are always ways around that though.
 
#48
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TGagnon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are headed through Bagram stop by the SASC shop it is by warrior living area in the maintenance shops. Ask around people will help you get there. Explain the situation to Matt or Tim or Top. One of these men will be able to give you or tell you were to get all the paper work to request one of the on hand rifles they keep in storage for this exact reason. If you have a mission needs statement from your commander it might help speed things along. Chances are pretty good you would get either the M110 which when I left the other day they still had some or a refurbed EBR chassis. Haven't been able to get new chassis as Rock Island has to assemble them at RI. There are always ways around that though. </div></div>

That's some great info. I'd give it a try but I won't be at Bagram anytime soon.
 
#49
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

You can give all this info to just about anybody in your chain of command and they can at least get the info you need from them. Part of our job is to ensure that weapons in short supply stay in country and are fit for reissue to new units. Supply people can do the paper work as well as any officer or sergeant. But I don't believe they will hand you a rifle without the proper paperwork signed by the proper people. I just passed through on way to smaller base but that is what they taught me that their job was.
 
#50
Re: Deployed troop seeking advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TGagnon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can give all this info to just about anybody in your chain of command and they can at least get the info you need from them. Part of our job is to ensure that weapons in short supply stay in country and are fit for reissue to new units. Supply people can do the paper work as well as any officer or sergeant. But I don't believe they will hand you a rifle without the proper paperwork signed by the proper people. I just passed through on way to smaller base but that is what they taught me that their job was.</div></div>

I will see if we can call and find out. I wish I had my organic unit's resources...we're few in numbers out here...us groundpounders run everything unoficially...for instance, supply, personnel, intel. We fall under Navy command. It's a mess.
 
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