Describe your definition of “Alpha Glass”
- Thread starter stanley_white
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I thought it was already established which glass was considered alpha
www.snipershide.com
Arken EP5 7- 35 .. Standing in for some Alpha Glass
Over time i have had more than my fair share of expensive Alpha/Top Tier Glass fail ... Just recently i had 2 current Top Tier optics on 2 of my Desert Tech,s go down. While still waiting for this to be resolved i decided to go the complete other end of the scale...yep....."Cheap" China...
www.snipershide.com
I’ve misused the term “alpha glass”, in what in my mind equates high end optics. By “high end”, I mean ones that out perform most others in advantageous features.
The true meaning to me is probably TT and ZCO. The same way Hensoldt and Swaro are to spotters, depending your purpose I suppose. Vectronix X now entering the LRF binos but has been the gold standard for years in LRF.
So to me, Alpha Glass is the gold standard to which we compare all the others.
The true meaning to me is probably TT and ZCO. The same way Hensoldt and Swaro are to spotters, depending your purpose I suppose. Vectronix X now entering the LRF binos but has been the gold standard for years in LRF.
So to me, Alpha Glass is the gold standard to which we compare all the others.
Which features do you find most important? Which higher end optics lack these features? To which degree do they outperform, 3%, 10%? It's always just tribalistic spewing of a few brands/models and no actual substance.
It's not helpful to just puke out what you've heard if you don't actually know why or haven't ever use the product yourself.
It’s a term to make someone feel superior due to the amount of money they spent. At least that’s how it’s most often used seems like.
And in the right conditions it can spots hits on paper at 500 yards.
With glass being key word here. Resolution first and foremost. Does that tree canopy 400-500yds out look like a green mass or can I count the leaves? No edge distortion. Do I have a crisp, clear picture at all lighting conditions?
Other features, is dialing for elevation, windage, and returning to zero (aka tracking) consistent? Is parallax forgiving, easy to dial in? How about a turret feel crisp enough to count clicks when I don't want to take my eyes off the reticle when adjusting?
Should the scope have to be sent in for repairs, it should be an easy process, not a costly, hassling ordeal.
For me to consider a scope "alpha", it has to meet all the above.
Other features, is dialing for elevation, windage, and returning to zero (aka tracking) consistent? Is parallax forgiving, easy to dial in? How about a turret feel crisp enough to count clicks when I don't want to take my eyes off the reticle when adjusting?
Should the scope have to be sent in for repairs, it should be an easy process, not a costly, hassling ordeal.
For me to consider a scope "alpha", it has to meet all the above.
If I need to explain that to you, stick to whatever you’re using. Speaking of puking out, don’t hurt yourself. Have some water.
This is simply my opinion, like it or hate it, it is what it is...
From my experiences, once you get above the $2,500 price point for a modern scope, the advantages become extremely negligible. So, that's about where (in the 2020's) I would draw the line for "alpha" tier glass. Technology has gotten so advanced that higher quality things can be made MUCH cheaper than they could 10, 20, 30 years ago. Look at where factory rifles are now... Just 10+ years ago, most rifles didn't even have a guarantee, and the ones that did were usually 1 MOA or 1.5 MOA. Now most factory rifles are sub-MOA guarantee, and a few are even sub-1/2 MOA. But back to scopes... Are you willing to pay 200% more for 10% better glass? That's entirely up to you. If someone has the money, by all means, buy the scope that makes you happiest, regardless of cost, and whether that's $500 or $5,000 is entirely up to you and your eyes and your budget.
But for me, I'd say with most all modern scopes and the quality we have now, anything above $2,500 would be considered an "incredible" scope by the average person/hunter/shooter. Most of them have never even shot a rifle with a scope costing more than $1,000 on it. And those that have, it might have been 1-3 shots tops, so their eyes are just not trained to nitpick all the little things we can.
From my experiences, once you get above the $2,500 price point for a modern scope, the advantages become extremely negligible. So, that's about where (in the 2020's) I would draw the line for "alpha" tier glass. Technology has gotten so advanced that higher quality things can be made MUCH cheaper than they could 10, 20, 30 years ago. Look at where factory rifles are now... Just 10+ years ago, most rifles didn't even have a guarantee, and the ones that did were usually 1 MOA or 1.5 MOA. Now most factory rifles are sub-MOA guarantee, and a few are even sub-1/2 MOA. But back to scopes... Are you willing to pay 200% more for 10% better glass? That's entirely up to you. If someone has the money, by all means, buy the scope that makes you happiest, regardless of cost, and whether that's $500 or $5,000 is entirely up to you and your eyes and your budget.
But for me, I'd say with most all modern scopes and the quality we have now, anything above $2,500 would be considered an "incredible" scope by the average person/hunter/shooter. Most of them have never even shot a rifle with a scope costing more than $1,000 on it. And those that have, it might have been 1-3 shots tops, so their eyes are just not trained to nitpick all the little things we can.
And….this is where the “poors” jokes originated.
It’s based on the fact of age old theory, law of diminishing returns.
Only you can decide if it’s “worth it”.
Frankly, when buying a TT is the same financially as a Tasco, then yeah, it’s “worth” it. Then there’s everything in between.
If you want Alpha, or what’s considered the gold standard because it’s literally the best by every standard, then it’s going to command whatever the proprietor deems.
Sorry, not sorry.
It’s based on the fact of age old theory, law of diminishing returns.
Only you can decide if it’s “worth it”.
Frankly, when buying a TT is the same financially as a Tasco, then yeah, it’s “worth” it. Then there’s everything in between.
If you want Alpha, or what’s considered the gold standard because it’s literally the best by every standard, then it’s going to command whatever the proprietor deems.
Sorry, not sorry.
I would say like ior valdalda they weren’t worried about standard ring sizes just packing the most features and adjustment they could in a product. That really does it for me. Yeah would it be a pain to find 40mm rings sure but is it worth it to have the top dog? You bet.
Anything with nightforce on the side of it is apha.
Only betas don't run the nightforce
Only betas don't run the nightforce
If you’re running switch barrel setups like AI, MRAD or DT the tool less reset would be a huge advantage
This was a joke but nobody flamed me for it so I’m worried somebody might think I’m serious.
IDK if anyone around here who doesn't play guitar will get this... but to me "Alpha glass" is like when you go from a lower-end or middle-of-the-road Fender Stratocaster and pick up a good vintage one or a really nice Fender Custom Shop model.
For the most part, a Strat is a Strat... if you can play, you'll sound like you, and most of them sound good enough to get the job done. But, when you play a really good one, where it's obvious that the MF'er who put it together really cared... well, the good ones almost feel like they play themselves and the sounds that come out of them are more rich and detailed than what you're used to, sometimes it's almost like an epiphany where you end up wondering how you went so long without knowing what you were missing.
I've owned some pretty good scopes (with a few different Razor Gen3s probably being the best), but today I got my first ZCO... and I've got to admit, the build quality, the image, the turrets... I took it out of the box and looked through it for like one minute and knew it was nicer than anything I've had before. I said out loud "holy shit, this thing is amazing". I think that's the vibe that Alpha glass should provide.
For the most part, a Strat is a Strat... if you can play, you'll sound like you, and most of them sound good enough to get the job done. But, when you play a really good one, where it's obvious that the MF'er who put it together really cared... well, the good ones almost feel like they play themselves and the sounds that come out of them are more rich and detailed than what you're used to, sometimes it's almost like an epiphany where you end up wondering how you went so long without knowing what you were missing.
I've owned some pretty good scopes (with a few different Razor Gen3s probably being the best), but today I got my first ZCO... and I've got to admit, the build quality, the image, the turrets... I took it out of the box and looked through it for like one minute and knew it was nicer than anything I've had before. I said out loud "holy shit, this thing is amazing". I think that's the vibe that Alpha glass should provide.
But, we all know “that guy” who plays his custom wood library PRS that’s going to talk down to you for playing a Studio or a MIM Strat as if you weren’t able to even play a note on that inferior junk regardless of his own ability.
Very true, working players call them "Blues Lawyers" lol.
But you won't find me looking down my nose at anybody for not having fancy glass or saying some alpha glass is instantly going to catapult me from the mid-pack to the podium. But, as a guy who's become pretty particular about what I like when it comes to what I want in a scope, knowing that I've got fewer years left on this earth than what's behind me, I found a model that checked all the boxes for me and decided to spend the extra loot to see what all the fuss is about.
Would I have bought a new one... IDK? But I got a chance to pick up a pre-owned one for a fair price (thanks @Islas82), though, still a lot more loot than I've ever spent on a scope, and am pleasantly surprised. I didn't get it to impress anyone besides myself.
Yes, nothing wrong with that. But it’s not you (or the majority) that gives that term a bad name.
For what it’s worth my addiction to mid to higher end guitars is what currently keeps me using cheaper glass.
For what it’s worth my addiction to higher end guitars is what currently keeps me using cheaper glass.
Ironically, my main axes are partscasters I put together myself for like $600-800 apiece, and I've always wanted a Les Paul Custom but still haven't bought one due to them being so expensive hahaha.
I guess the point is, it's up to the individual if it's worth it or not, beauty in the eye of the beholder sort of thing. If anything, the gear-snob thing has actually kept me away from alpha glass more than anything else. I'd like to get good enough to win a 2-day with a Howa in a Bravo with a Razor Gen2 on top, because I know in the right hands it absolutely can be done, and that would be so much more badass lol.
Oh I know what you mean. I have a friend who plays about $300 worth of a partscaster that can absolutely play circles around me and sounds great doing it. I shoot a Savage with a Vortex and I do fine with it. I have zero doubt that a $5k scope is going to be better than what I use. Quality optics are just that, quality. But an acceptable, capable and useable range also exists.
Yes, IMO the Vortex Razor G3 is the "alpha glass for the everyman", if they made one with a non-Xmas tree reticle I wouldn't have bought the ZCO. They are 97% as nice for scary close to half the cost, anyone who says differently is lying to make themselves feel better or doesn't know what they're talking about.
But, just like in recording/audio where we say "good shit sounds good", alpha glass has a place if one wants the best out there and is willing to pay for it.
Oh no doubt! It’s the attitude of a few that makes hearing that term kinda tiresome though.
Counter sniper, with a name like that you just know it's alpha!
Yeah, alpha glass must have a cool name and bonus points for billboards on the scope somewhere so everyone at the range knows what it is from a far....
Yeah, alpha glass must have a cool name and bonus points for billboards on the scope somewhere so everyone at the range knows what it is from a far....
Gotta give it to the Arken boys though, they got all the YouTubers shootings “just as good” Arkens.I thought it was already established which glass was considered alpha
Arken EP5 7- 35 .. Standing in for some Alpha Glass
Over time i have had more than my fair share of expensive Alpha/Top Tier Glass fail ... Just recently i had 2 current Top Tier optics on 2 of my Desert Tech,s go down. While still waiting for this to be resolved i decided to go the complete other end of the scale...yep....."Cheap" China...
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One probably doesn't ever understand what is truly an alpha XYZ widget if you have zero actual NEED for it. The one time you figure THAT out, you won't need someone else to explain it to you. Maybe that's a crap answer...but its really probably closer to the truth...
My buddy has about 50k in various guitars but refuses to upgrade his scope. He shoots and competes with a DMR II. which is a good scope for the $800 he paid on closeout.
What's really crazy is the amount of money you'll spend to get that extra single digit %% increase in performance. These days you could buy a $1,000-$1,500 scope, well suited for your intended purpose, and you'll probably never miss another target or animal due to the scope. Or, you can spend triple plus those amounts, and side by side in an objective test, you'll probably struggle mightily to define any actual improvement, although there probably is a little. Is it enough difference that you'll hit more targets or animals? I say no, but it's up to the individual to make that determination..
I have noticed that as I get older and my eyes don't adjust as fast that the true Alpha glass is becoming more and more attractive.
With few exceptions I tend to agree. I wouldn’t cut and save to buy an alpha scope and I certainly would to buy an action, barrel, or quality reloading components. Saying all that I have zero regrets buying my ZCO.
This is one thing I've noticed with my astigmatism and slightly degrading eyesight, as well. I can still use the inexpensive scopes just fine, but I find it a more enjoyable experience with the extra clarity and light transmission and overall IQ of higher-end optics.
I’ll have to disagree with this and I wish you were right, I’d have a $1000 scope on my match gun. There’s generally a big difference between them, especially when you get to the 600-800yd range in mirage. I shot matches with a Razor Gen II up until the latter part of this year and switched to a Razor Gen III. Just the difference in those two is huge. Better clarity, better detail and better in mirage. I’ve had Athlon ETR’s, Cronus and have one of the new Mark 4hd’s and they’re just not as good as the better scopes. At least in matches shooting white steel targets in mirage. Used to shoot most matches at 15x or less just because of mirage. With the Gen III I rarely go below 20x in matches and see things better. Targets, target edges and misses. Which with the cheaper scopes you’ll struggle and will cost you hits.
I think “alpha glass” is a term made up by beta males that wanna thing they are “alpha” in every regard.
Can we say quality glass instead?
Or maybe I’m jealous cause I can’t afford alpha glass nor am I alpha male.
Can we say quality glass instead?
Or maybe I’m jealous cause I can’t afford alpha glass nor am I alpha male.
I forgot to mention dual mil dot reticles are a must for true alpha glass. The dual mil dots are for keeping both eyes open while shooting. I’ve also learned it’s a back up for the built in feature of a wandering zero. You zero with one reference point and the other reference point is for when the zero wanders. The wandering zero is for elite snipers to use while shooting at multiple targets and improvised positions. That way the snipers don’t have to touch the turrets, the turrets have a built in feature of having its own non repeatable independent movements. That gives the counter sniper a tactical advantage of multiple zeros. Truly innovative stuff that big name scopes are unable or unwilling to copy.
While NF, TT and ZCO might be nice but none of them have a dual reticles or independent value turrets.
Statue of Liberty gives it a signature look, you just know its quality…
ETA it has military in the markings so that must mean it is in use by elite secret units. They must be an elite secret unit because if you google to see who is using them nothing comes up. That’s a sign of OPSEC….
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While all valid points, I just don’t see how it could possibly be alpha without a uterus ranging reticle. At bare minimum some circles.
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