A new guy here. Was shooting at 520 yards yesterday with a 8-10 x-wind in moderate snow. Has anyone here noticed unusual deviations (erratic) or less than normal accuracy when shooting in snow or rain? I was spotting for my gal friend. She was shooting my 24" AR using Mk262 Mod1 ammo. If this question has been posted before, I apologize. Curious to here your thoughts.
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Fieldcraft Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
- Thread starter tnichols
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Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
No, generally snow and rain themselves do not change the flight of the bullet, however the trajectory of the round is affected by the atmospheric conditions that accompany snow and rain. By this I mean the changes in things like the barometric pressure and temperature. That being said I have to ask to what extent were the deviations and degradation of accuracy ? Is your friend an experienced shooter with AR platforms? I only ask because if she isn't an experienced shooter with AR platforms she may have been exercising improper trigger control.
No, generally snow and rain themselves do not change the flight of the bullet, however the trajectory of the round is affected by the atmospheric conditions that accompany snow and rain. By this I mean the changes in things like the barometric pressure and temperature. That being said I have to ask to what extent were the deviations and degradation of accuracy ? Is your friend an experienced shooter with AR platforms? I only ask because if she isn't an experienced shooter with AR platforms she may have been exercising improper trigger control.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
She was doing fine, but is new to this game. I sent 2 myself, and to be honest, didn't notice anything unusual. It just got me thinking. A 77 SMK heading down range at 2850 smacks into a big fat rain drop (water being quite dense), you would think it would alter it's normal "flight path". I agree with your statement about conditions associated with rain/snow.
She was doing fine, but is new to this game. I sent 2 myself, and to be honest, didn't notice anything unusual. It just got me thinking. A 77 SMK heading down range at 2850 smacks into a big fat rain drop (water being quite dense), you would think it would alter it's normal "flight path". I agree with your statement about conditions associated with rain/snow.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
She might have been exercising improper trigger control even if she was an experienced shooter. You wouldn't <span style="font-style: italic">believe</span> the things I've seen people do with a trigger who ought to know better.
Or, maybe you would...
She might have been exercising improper trigger control even if she was an experienced shooter. You wouldn't <span style="font-style: italic">believe</span> the things I've seen people do with a trigger who ought to know better.
Or, maybe you would...
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
I have not noticed any deviation due to snow or rain.
I have not noticed any deviation due to snow or rain.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
If you shoot enough during heavy rainfall you might be lucky enough to see a bullet vaporize in flight. In all my years I have actually see it twice in heavy rainfall. With stationary and moving backers the bullet never made it to the target. The bullets in question in both instances were hollow point bullets.
If you shoot enough during heavy rainfall you might be lucky enough to see a bullet vaporize in flight. In all my years I have actually see it twice in heavy rainfall. With stationary and moving backers the bullet never made it to the target. The bullets in question in both instances were hollow point bullets.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
....sort of reminds me of the movie the Matrix
post some pictures of your girlfriend please
....sort of reminds me of the movie the Matrix
post some pictures of your girlfriend please
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you shoot enough during heavy rainfall you might be lucky enough to see a bullet vaporize in flight. In all my years I have actually see it twice in heavy rainfall. With stationary and moving backers the bullet never made it to the target. The bullets in question in both instances were hollow point bullets. </div></div>
I would love to see that happen, that would be the shiznit.
Also though, I would have a hard time believing that over the course of say, 300m, if a bullet hits 10 raindrops...it HAS to toss it off course somewhat. No data on this, but one would only assume.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you shoot enough during heavy rainfall you might be lucky enough to see a bullet vaporize in flight. In all my years I have actually see it twice in heavy rainfall. With stationary and moving backers the bullet never made it to the target. The bullets in question in both instances were hollow point bullets. </div></div>
I would love to see that happen, that would be the shiznit.
Also though, I would have a hard time believing that over the course of say, 300m, if a bullet hits 10 raindrops...it HAS to toss it off course somewhat. No data on this, but one would only assume.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
There is no effect on a projectiles' trajectory from rain or snow.
Bullet vaporize in flight? I'm with the Matrix theory...
There is no effect on a projectiles' trajectory from rain or snow.
Bullet vaporize in flight? I'm with the Matrix theory...
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">post some pictures of your girlfriend please </div></div>
+1
I could see it vary slightly, like hitting a blade of grass/hay would do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">post some pictures of your girlfriend please </div></div>
+1
I could see it vary slightly, like hitting a blade of grass/hay would do.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
Thanks for the input and opinions. It was one of those things that got me thinking. Things that make you go mmmmmm. As far as pics of the gal, we are working on it....seriously. She gorgeous (what she's doing with me, I don't know). It's colder than hell here right now, so my idea of a pic prone from behind on the deck wearing ....a...not much behind (you fill in rifle of choice here) might be a bit chilly.
Thanks for the input and opinions. It was one of those things that got me thinking. Things that make you go mmmmmm. As far as pics of the gal, we are working on it....seriously. She gorgeous (what she's doing with me, I don't know). It's colder than hell here right now, so my idea of a pic prone from behind on the deck wearing ....a...not much behind (you fill in rifle of choice here) might be a bit chilly.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
I heard and read somewhere from a reliable source that until a bullet slows significantly the shock wave that the bullet produces pushes rain and snow out of the way keeping the ballistics relatively unchanged.
Some pictures to kind of show the idea, pretty cool when you think about it. Now I am in no way an expert on this so this is just based on what I have heard.
There are so many things that could effect shooting that have nothing do with rain/snow so who knows. Even expert shooters have some errors come up and could just be the cold, wet, body conditions, so many things that could throw a experienced shooter off. People just sometimes have an off day.
I heard and read somewhere from a reliable source that until a bullet slows significantly the shock wave that the bullet produces pushes rain and snow out of the way keeping the ballistics relatively unchanged.
Some pictures to kind of show the idea, pretty cool when you think about it. Now I am in no way an expert on this so this is just based on what I have heard.
There are so many things that could effect shooting that have nothing do with rain/snow so who knows. Even expert shooters have some errors come up and could just be the cold, wet, body conditions, so many things that could throw a experienced shooter off. People just sometimes have an off day.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
awesome pics. looks like a logical theory, the vaporizing bullet could still happen with this in place if the opposing force of the rain is greater than the force of the shock wave.
awesome pics. looks like a logical theory, the vaporizing bullet could still happen with this in place if the opposing force of the rain is greater than the force of the shock wave.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
Never thought about the shock wave out front. Seems very plausible.
Also seems consistent with the replies that rain/snow have no effect on the flight path. Good pics and info.
Never thought about the shock wave out front. Seems very plausible.
Also seems consistent with the replies that rain/snow have no effect on the flight path. Good pics and info.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
From everything that I have heard and experienced, there is no deviation. I was able to see trace out to about 500 in a moderately heavy snowfall. I just got back from school and we actually had to qualify on movers with the M110 out to 400 in a pretty good sleet/snow fall. Trace is pretty hard to spot, but it can be done. No impact on the trajectory though. Conditions were 30 degrees, Baro @ 29.4, Alt. 500ft.
From everything that I have heard and experienced, there is no deviation. I was able to see trace out to about 500 in a moderately heavy snowfall. I just got back from school and we actually had to qualify on movers with the M110 out to 400 in a pretty good sleet/snow fall. Trace is pretty hard to spot, but it can be done. No impact on the trajectory though. Conditions were 30 degrees, Baro @ 29.4, Alt. 500ft.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
We folk who inhabit the Great White North (says I from my fabled Florida Winter getaway) tend to get some experience with precipitation, especially the whiter kind.
While I'm a fan of the shockwave concept, and have never witnessed a significant deviation, I accept the possibility.
The physics of the problem insist that there cannot be an action without a reaction, so collisions, whether between bullets and precip, or shockwaves and precip, are bound to cause some effect on the shockwave's originator.
If there's a supersonic object, and if there's an atmosphere; then variations in the atmosphere's consistency are bound to affect the shockwave, and (I suspect) the originator (projectile).
Unfortunately, how those physics work are a bit beyond my HS education's reach.
Greg
We folk who inhabit the Great White North (says I from my fabled Florida Winter getaway) tend to get some experience with precipitation, especially the whiter kind.
While I'm a fan of the shockwave concept, and have never witnessed a significant deviation, I accept the possibility.
The physics of the problem insist that there cannot be an action without a reaction, so collisions, whether between bullets and precip, or shockwaves and precip, are bound to cause some effect on the shockwave's originator.
If there's a supersonic object, and if there's an atmosphere; then variations in the atmosphere's consistency are bound to affect the shockwave, and (I suspect) the originator (projectile).
Unfortunately, how those physics work are a bit beyond my HS education's reach.
Greg
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
Greg,
You missed a touch of weather down there.
Physics is great!
Kinda think wind would be greater factor in the snow.
Snow is just a few flakes.
"Shock-Wave Concept"
Snowflake is caught in Earth's gravity, not the bullets.
Wrong place, wrong time.
Can't see target, because of a bunch of snowflakes, not because can't hit.
Spotting might be kinda hard.
Greg,
You missed a touch of weather down there.
Physics is great!
Kinda think wind would be greater factor in the snow.
Snow is just a few flakes.
"Shock-Wave Concept"
Snowflake is caught in Earth's gravity, not the bullets.
Wrong place, wrong time.
Can't see target, because of a bunch of snowflakes, not because can't hit.
Spotting might be kinda hard.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
Sorry guys, but I have witnessed it first hand. I was shooting tiny 100 meter groups (.3s and .4s) with my 6.5x47mm Lapua one afternoon. Then came the rain. It was the heavy, heavy cloudburst kind of rain where little rivers of water appear around the slopes in the landscape.
I kept right on shooting, all the while thinking to myself, "<span style="font-style: italic">it doesn't matter, the guys on SH say rain doesn't affect bullet flight</span>." I've read about the pressure wave theory before and thought it sounded fairly reasonable. Not so.
My groups opened up to 1 - 1.5 MOA. The groups were also random, scatter groups with no directional stringing of any kind. Of course my paper target disintegrated soon after so I packed up and went home.
Maybe the deviation is too minor to see in tactical applications, but after what I witnessed, I'm willing to bet the benchrest guys would also say there is a difference.
Sorry guys, but I have witnessed it first hand. I was shooting tiny 100 meter groups (.3s and .4s) with my 6.5x47mm Lapua one afternoon. Then came the rain. It was the heavy, heavy cloudburst kind of rain where little rivers of water appear around the slopes in the landscape.
I kept right on shooting, all the while thinking to myself, "<span style="font-style: italic">it doesn't matter, the guys on SH say rain doesn't affect bullet flight</span>." I've read about the pressure wave theory before and thought it sounded fairly reasonable. Not so.
My groups opened up to 1 - 1.5 MOA. The groups were also random, scatter groups with no directional stringing of any kind. Of course my paper target disintegrated soon after so I packed up and went home.
Maybe the deviation is too minor to see in tactical applications, but after what I witnessed, I'm willing to bet the benchrest guys would also say there is a difference.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
I suppose if the rain fall is so bad it could affect it cause it would pretty much be like shooting through liquid of a sort. I am, again, in no way a expert but from everything I have seen and heard its not effected by light to medium rain. Don't know about snow.
I suppose if the rain fall is so bad it could affect it cause it would pretty much be like shooting through liquid of a sort. I am, again, in no way a expert but from everything I have seen and heard its not effected by light to medium rain. Don't know about snow.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
In theory there is no question that effects trajectory. Even if the shockwave theory holds water, effects on the shockwave itself will subsequently effect the bullet. The issue is at what degree do you start compensating for such effect. Physics don't lie, but why add another variable if you don't have to.
In theory there is no question that effects trajectory. Even if the shockwave theory holds water, effects on the shockwave itself will subsequently effect the bullet. The issue is at what degree do you start compensating for such effect. Physics don't lie, but why add another variable if you don't have to.
Re: Deviation in flight path due to snow/rain?
The shockwave theory is the best explanation, I only know this because my brother is currently attaining his masters degree in Quantom Physics and has done multiple experiments with trajectory.
Not saying there couldn't be some wild circumstance though either...
During my experiences as a sniper and as an instructor having students shoot in adverse conditions (ie rain/snow) the effects are felt by the shooter (the ability to consitently apply the fundamentals of marksmanship) resulting in degraded performance. How the shooter sees the target is of concern also. (If its raining hard enough to suspect a bullet is deflected from it, it can also be a reasonable assumption that the target is obscured either wholly or partially.) The other item being the positive mental attitude (PMA) of the shooter. Rain has a very demoralizing effect, and shooters must train in it regularly in order to build a good PMA.
For what it's worth...
Maybe we should contact the Myth Busters??
The shockwave theory is the best explanation, I only know this because my brother is currently attaining his masters degree in Quantom Physics and has done multiple experiments with trajectory.
Not saying there couldn't be some wild circumstance though either...
During my experiences as a sniper and as an instructor having students shoot in adverse conditions (ie rain/snow) the effects are felt by the shooter (the ability to consitently apply the fundamentals of marksmanship) resulting in degraded performance. How the shooter sees the target is of concern also. (If its raining hard enough to suspect a bullet is deflected from it, it can also be a reasonable assumption that the target is obscured either wholly or partially.) The other item being the positive mental attitude (PMA) of the shooter. Rain has a very demoralizing effect, and shooters must train in it regularly in order to build a good PMA.
For what it's worth...
Maybe we should contact the Myth Busters??
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