Hunting & Fishing Did I hit the deer

[stello1001]

Just shot a decent 8. My zero is at 100 yards with 140 BTHP Hornady black. That is what I shot it with. Buck jumped really high, getting all 4 off the ground and then immediately ran into the brush. That to me tells me it's a hit. Got down and saw no blood anywhere in the area where he was standing nor around. Aimed right where the head and neck connect. Gonna wait a few minutes more to make it a total of 35 minutes of wait time before I go into the brush looking. Distance is about 50 yards. Do you guys think elevation might be slightly off at 50 from a 100 yard zero? I also think my parallax adjustment may have been just slightly off. Any tips???

 

[stello1001]

Before I get people saying I took an unethical shot, I've practiced with this same ammo all the way to 445 yards on 12 by 12 steel plate but getting hit after hit after hit in a 6 inch diameter which is about the size of deer vitals. I felt the buck was pretty close range and I felt very comfortable taking that shot at about 50 yards.

 

[SupressYourself]

If you "Aimed right where the head and neck connect" and it ran off, you either missed entirely or made a non-lethal grazing. I could be wrong, but that buck is likely long gone.
I'm not going to try to judge your "ethics" but I must say don't understand your shot placement. The "vitals" are the heart / lungs, which is a gigantic area compared to the head / neck junction.

 

[stello1001]

If you "Aimed right where the head and neck connect" and it ran off, you either missed entirely or made a non-lethal grazing. I could be wrong, but that buck is likely long gone.
I'm not going to try to judge your "ethics" but I must say don't understand your shot placement. The "vitals" are the heart / lungs, which is a gigantic area compared to the head / neck junction.

I get that the heart/lungs are considered vitals but so is the spinal cord. I do prefer heart/lungs over neck any day. As a matter of fact, that's all I've ever done. Only reason I didn't want to take that shot today was because I didn't have hunting ammo. Normally, I'll use ELD-X and for some reason I didn't have it on me today. I was very concerned this BTHP might pencil through or leave lots of fragments all on the meat. Thank you for your input. I sure hope you're right and nothing happened to it. I'll need to double make sure next time that I have ELD-X on hand and ready!

 

[SupressYourself]

To be sure, a head or neck shot can produce dead-right-there results, but the margin of error is very small, even at close range.
Some on this forum will try to tell you that is the "best" shot. These are usually the same people that say "hunting" bullets are a gimmick and any match bullet will kill just as well. IME: you should believe neither.
(yes, that E is for "experience", not "opinion")

 

[Stooxie]

Yes, there is a difference in POI between 50 yards and 100. Depending on cartridge, if 100 yards is 0 then 50 is usually -0.75 to -1.5. Add to that the fact that a cold bore with cold ammo can drop a bit more and it's totally plausible that you missed the spine. I agree with above, way to small a target.

Where you aimed there is nothing but muscle and about 1-2" of vertebrae and spinal cord. If the bullet was low you may have gotten him through the esophagus or wind pipe. He could be out there somewhere, but that's going to be a slow death.

-Stooxie

 

[Dirty8404]

You’re gonna be high at 50 with that zero. If you hit just above the spine (say 1” high off the edge of a 2” high target) you’d have dropped him instantly, he just would have gotten up about 30-45sec later and run.

I’d guess you clipped the top of his neck or missed high, odds are he’s fine. If you hit low, three outcomes: same as above, lots of bleeding and dead, die slowly from esophagus hit, or recover.

That’s why you take neck shots at just in front of the body, the spine is bigger.

 

[Stooxie]

At 50 the shot will be low, not high. Because the scope sits 1.5-2.5" above the bore, the bullets go in a parabolic arc. They start at -2.5" (if that's the scope height) and cross the zero line twice. If you're 1" high at 100 yards a ROUGH estimate is 0 at 50 and zero at 150. Or 0(ish) at 50, 1.5" high at 100, 0 at 200. Obviously depending on caliber.

-Stooxie

 

[FatBoy]

No matter what, you should be out there tomorrow morning, first thing, and start doing a grid or search rings. I have shot several deer that didn't bleed at all externally. Of course, these were vital shots.

 

[Dirty8404]

At 50 the shot will be low, not high. Because the scope sits 1.5-2.5" above the bore, the bullets go in a parabolic arc. They start at -2.5" (if that's the scope height) and cross the zero line twice. If you're 1" high at 100 yards a ROUGH estimate is 0 at 50 and zero at 150. Or 0(ish) at 50, 1.5" high at 100, 0 at 200. Obviously depending on caliber.

-Stooxie

I stand corrected, after a few beers I default to retard. I zero all my hunting stuff for ~250, which puts me approx. 2.5in high at 100 and thus ~1in high at 50.

 

[Stooxie]

I stand corrected, after a few beers I default to retard. I zero all my hunting stuff for ~250, which puts me approx. 2.5in high at 100 and thus ~1in high at 50.

LOL, true for all us, brother!

-Stooxie

 

[Maxduty]

He jumped. You hit him. Whether it was lethal or not is to be determined.

 

[stello1001]

Definitely a lesson learned. Searched so much in the brush, never did we find a single drop of blood. Where I shot it and it jumped, I should have seen blood I would assume. Nothing!!! I've never ever liked neck shots and only do heart/lungs. Today I ventured off from that with complete failure. I will double check next time to make sure I have hunting ammo so I am confident in taking game with heart/lungs shot. Thanks to all who contributed. Quite frankly, I did not find blood nor hair, I think I missed!

 

[Maxduty]

he's hit. grid check when you can, but if he was hit fatally, coyotes will have him tonight. Don't feel bad. I blew an easy shot on a doe last weekend. Got in a rush and slapped the trigger. She runs with a bit of a limp now, but she's okay.

 

[stello1001]

he's hit. grid check when you can, but if he was hit fatally, coyotes will have him tonight. Don't feel bad. I blew an easy shot on a doe last weekend. Got in a rush and slapped the trigger. She runs with a bit of a limp now, but she's okay.

Man don't tell me that, you really think he's hit?

I just feel so bad, this is our dominant buck here, he pushes the others around and gets his way. I feel like he's a buck with the highest prestige around our area that if he were to go down, it would have to be honorably lol and not by coyotes!

 

[honuswagner]

Man don't tell me that, you really think he's hit?

I just feel so bad, this is our dominant buck here, he pushes the others around and gets his way. I feel like he's a buck with the highest prestige around our area that if he were to go down, it would have to be honorably lol and not by coyotes!

Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. I think any experienced hunter has taken a shot at one time or another during their life that one might consider "unethical". I'm not too proud to admit that I have, I couldn't find the animal, felt terrible about it for months (still do in fact), and I've never taken a shot like that since then. The good thing about the situation is that you feel bad. Keep hunting and learn from your mistakes.

 

[stello1001]

I'm gonna stick to what I always do and what I'm successful with, heart/lungs!!!

 

[honuswagner]

I'm gonna stick to what I always do and what I'm successful with, heart/lungs!!!

From a statistical point of view there's no doubt your probabilities are greater with that approach.

 

[stello1001]

Lol

 

[CuTm]

Anyone speaking of ethics has probably never stopped a heart. If anyone ever shoots me I hope it’s in the head . You’re a carnivore. You kill to eat and survive. This perfect heart shot stuff is all bull shit. I’ve seen multiple animals with a hole in the heart run 50-100 yards after being shot with big bore rifles . I’ve yet to see anything run after being shot in the brain. You probably jerked the trigger while pulling you’re head up fast to see if you hit it. assuming how easy the shot was you let you’re fundamentals take a poop. In my opinion after pulling the trigger the only thing you should of saw that close is a deer laying on the ground dead . Not any of this air time . While we are bringing up the ethics how many butchers take heart shots? How many lions ? How many bears ? How many honey badgers ? I’m sure we can find an ethical way to harvest potatoes next ?. Study you’re anatomy find the brain. Shoot the brain when appropriate . Know you’re limits. Know how you’re gun shoots. Go set up this exact shot on paper. That is going to bring facts to the table no one can but you.

 

[supercorndogs]

I have never seen one run with a brain shot. I have found live one with chunks of their face blown off though. Lots of non vital stuff in that little tiny head, with a little tiny brain in it. Match bullets do fine through the vitals. Anyone who said different hasn't done it much.

 

[SupressYourself]

This perfect heart shot stuff is all bull shit. I’ve seen multiple animals with a hole in the heart run 50-100 yards after being shot with big bore rifles . I’ve yet to see anything run after being shot in the brain.

I think everyone agrees that the brain is quick kill. The problem is it's very small and sits inside something that moves around a lot. Your margin of error is very small. If your POI is 1 inch high of your POA on a lung shot, you've still got lungs and that is a dead animal. Yeah, it may run a little bit, but not far. If you're 1 inch high of POA on a brain shot, you've only injured the animal, or missed completely.

And your comparison to butchers is laughable. They typically "shoot" cows with a bolt-thingy at a range of about 1 foot.

Yes, we are carnivores, but we've evolved to the point where in most cases we don't actually need to kill wild animals to survive. When the "need" disappears, some "ethics" must take its place. If not, we'd all be toting around m60s on our hips, spraying bullets into herds of animals yelling "get some!"

At the end of the day, you owe it to the animal to kill them as quickly and as cleanly as possible. The second part means you aim for the area that gives you the highest confidence of making a kill.

 

[Mr. Z]

Just yell “yo mamma so fat” and hit them here when they look.

Just picking on you. I wish you luck in your recovery.

 

[shoot4fun]

I get that the heart/lungs are considered vitals but so is the spinal cord. I do prefer heart/lungs over neck any day. As a matter of fact, that's all I've ever done. Only reason I didn't want to take that shot today was because I didn't have hunting ammo. Normally, I'll use ELD-X and for some reason I didn't have it on me today. I was very concerned this BTHP might pencil through or leave lots of fragments all on the meat. Thank you for your input. I sure hope you're right and nothing happened to it. I'll need to double make sure next time that I have ELD-X on hand and ready!

I've killed deer that showed the old wounds from another hunter's spine shot. A heart shot will always do the job. May not always be as dramatic as the spine shot and you may have to walk 30-50 yards to retrieve the animal but it always works.

 

[Stooxie]

If we're turning this into a "where to aim" thread, I'll bite.

My experience with archery and rifle is that heart shots don't anchor the deer all that quickly. I can post plenty of pictures (as others above have stated) of some pretty messed up hearts from deer that still made it a good 70-100 yards before falling. A good double-lung seems to be 30-70 yards and is a much larger area.

I recently moved my point of aim just slightly forward, maybe 2-3 inches closer to the front of the animal. That has given me excellent results and mostly DRTs. If it's high I get a high shoulder shot. If it's low I get heart, broken leg bones and lung. If it's back I get a classic lung shot. If it's forward it will at least break the leg joints. Still have to account for any quartering, of course, but that small adjustment has made a big difference for me.

A lot of this depends on how much confidence you have in your marksmanship. I am quite confident in my setups but I don't aim for the brain or spine because there's just so little room for error. I want a fatal hit and a short track in a 2-3 MOA space even though I aim for a sub-MOA spot.

-Stooxie

 

[XL Mammal]

Match bullets do fine through the vitals. Anyone who said different hasn't done it much.

I guess it depends on the match bullet and your definition of "fine." A-Max or ELD still at high velocity works ok, although they tend to explode. A Matchking slipped between the ribs can result in a very long tracking detail. I found a doe almost 200 yds from the point of impact with a pinhole on each side and one through the heart. The culprit was a 175 SMK from ~250 yds. Little expansion = little transfer of energy = little hydrostatic shock, little incapacitation, and often little blood.

I've shot enough whitetail with match bullets that I won't do it anymore. Too inconsistent and unnecessary, especially with a hunting counterpart to so many good match bullets available in today's market.

Supercorndogs, I argue this point here, every season, and I'm in no way bagging on you. I've just seen enough animals, hit with well-placed match bullets, travel farther than I think they should.

stello, with that light-colored grass, it'd be hard to go wrong with a double-lung. It'd be like tracking John Dudley's SD whitetail.

 

[stello1001]

stello, with that light-colored grass, it'd be hard to go wrong with a double-lung. It'd be like tracking John Dudley's SD whitetail.

My biggest concern was penciling through or bullet fragments all over. I never take these kinds of shots. My lack of ensuring I had ELD-X on me made me go for an area where if I hit it, it wouldn't matter what the bullet did. Had I had ELD-X, I would have gone for lungs/heart like I always do.

To all those who don't use hunting bullets for hunting, I'm not picking on you or trying to insult/offend, etc. I am simply saying I myself was not confident taking such a shot!

 

[spaniel]

So you screwed up and took non-hunting ammo on a hunting trip. Then you doubled down by aiming at the smallest and most mobile lethal shot on a deer. Frankly you have no business shooting at living things. "somehow" you didn't have your ammo on you today. That's 100% on you. So you elected to take a sub standard shot with sub standard ammo hoping to hit a 1-2 inch moving target. Really disgusting behavior. Some deer suffers as a result. Reminds me of a guy I USED to hunt with that thought he was close enough for a VERY similar aiming point, and ended up shooting the jaw off a buck who ran off to starve/dehydrate to death.

Here's an idea....if you forget ethical hunting ammo, go back and get it or don't go hunting...

 

[stello1001]

So you screwed up and took non-hunting ammo on a hunting trip. Then you doubled down by aiming at the smallest and most mobile lethal shot on a deer. Frankly you have no business shooting at living things. "somehow" you didn't have your ammo on you today. That's 100% on you. So you elected to take a sub standard shot with sub standard ammo hoping to hit a 1-2 inch moving target. Really disgusting behavior. Some deer suffers as a result. Reminds me of a guy I USED to hunt with that thought he was close enough for a VERY similar aiming point, and ended up shooting the jaw off a buck who ran off to starve/dehydrate to death.

Here's an idea....if you forget ethical hunting ammo, go back and get it or don't go hunting...

Lol

 

[spaniel]

Lol

Is wounding game based 100% off your own incompetence funny to you? Serious question.

 

[stello1001]

Is wounding game based 100% off your own incompetence funny to you? Serious question.

It's your response that was funny to me. Still is!!!

 

[Caveman0101]

From your description of what the deer did when shot, I'd say you most certainly hit him. That in no way means it was fatal. When I was young I tried to shoot a buck in the head with an arrow, the shot was high and it ricochet off his antler. That S.O.B went crazy, turned a flip, ran into a tree, damn near killed himself trying to get away. I suspect this may be what happened to you, maybe got an ear, or grazed his neck. It is possible you got his throat but there should have been hair. If you had got near his spine he would have been DRT or bleed like a stuck pig. If you made a solid effort and found no trace of blood or hair, I'd say you did your part. I also prefer lung shots, but at 50 yards a neck shot is doable, although I generally go for the neck/shoulder junction.

 

[spaniel]

Lol

So you're confirming you're an unethical sh!thead. "Any tips"? Yeah, learn to own your behavior and respect the animals you shoot at, because you are the type which give the rest of us a bad name. You're on ignore now.

 

[stello1001]

Looks like someone is butt heart. I'm honestly better off being muted by you so thank you. That'll work out to my favor.

From your description of what the deer did when shot, I'd say you most certainly hit him. That in no way means it was fatal. When I was young I tried to shoot a buck in the head with an arrow, the shot was high and it ricochet off his antler. That S.O.B went crazy, turned a flip, ran into a tree, damn near killed himself trying to get away. I suspect this may be what happened to you, maybe got an ear, or grazed his neck. It is possible you got his throat but there should have been hair. If you had got near his spine he would have been DRT or bleed like a stuck pig. If you made a solid effort and found no trace of blood or hair, I'd say you did your part. I also prefer lung shots, but at 50 yards a neck shot is doable, although I generally go for the neck/shoulder junction.

Yeah, both my father and I went deep into the brush and searched for multiple hours. Absolutely nothing. No hair, no blood!

 

[spaniel]

Looks like someone is butt heart. I'm honestly better off being muted by you so thank you. That'll work out to my favor.




Yeah, both my father and I went deep into the brush and searched for multiple hours. Absolutely nothing. No hair, no blood!

Yes, some of us who have ethics tend to get butt hurt when encountering people who have none. No hair, no blood, so hey, you feel clear for making a sh!tty decision on an animal likely to die unrecovered! Good for you! You join the ranks of those on here who think a subsonic 300 Blackout is a great 200yd deer rifle and a 6.5CM an 800yd elk rifle.

 

[Caveman0101]

Let he who has never made a poor decision or a bad shot on an animal cast the first stone. So sayeth the Caveman

 

[stello1001]

Yes, some of us who have ethics tend to get butt hurt when encountering people who have none. No hair, no blood, so hey, you feel clear for making a sh!tty decision on an animal likely to die unrecovered! Good for you! You join the ranks of those on here who think a subsonic 300 Blackout is a great 200yd deer rifle and a 6.5CM an 800yd elk rifle.

Dude, you muted me, what are you still doing here lol...

 

[grinnergetter]

One thing I've found is that deer that are not hit well tend to travel in a straight ish line. Deer that have been hit hard enough to be quickly fatal will usually make a hard turn or curve one way or the other. Just an observation from tracking more than a few in the thick stuff.

Might consider that if you do another grid search. Maybe he aint where your looking.

 

[supercorndogs]

I guess it depends on the match bullet and your definition of "fine." A-Max or ELD still at high velocity works ok, although they tend to explode. A Matchking slipped between the ribs can result in a very long tracking detail. I found a doe almost 200 yds from the point of impact with a pinhole on each side and one through the heart. The culprit was a 175 SMK from ~250 yds. Little expansion = little transfer of energy = little hydrostatic shock, little incapacitation, and often little blood.

I've shot enough whitetail with match bullets that I won't do it anymore. Too inconsistent and unnecessary, especially with a hunting counterpart to so many good match bullets available in today's market.

Supercorndogs, I argue this point here, every season, and I'm in no way bagging on you. I've just seen enough animals, hit with well-placed match bullets, travel farther than I think they should.

stello, with that light-colored grass, it'd be hard to go wrong with a double-lung. It'd be like tracking John Dudley's SD whitetail.

Bagging on me LOL. I have seen Deer go 200 yards with hunting bullets through their hearts. There really is no rhyme nor reason to how far some can go. Someone thinking they can predict it reliably and basing their bullet selection on that is funny to me.

 

[XL Mammal]

Bagging on me LOL. I have seen Deer go 200 yards with hunting bullets through their hearts. There really is no rhyme nor reason to how far some can go. Someone thinking they can predict it reliably and basing their bullet selection on that is funny to me.

Oh, yeah? Well I've seen "Deer" with MATCH bullets through their hearts go 201 yds.

I said I was NOT bagging on you. I was trying to be congenial despite disagreeing with your position. By refusing to return the favor, you've turned a polite discussion (spaniel, aside) into a pissing contest.

Hunting bullets do what they're designed to do, transfer energy to flesh, better than match bullets. I'm astounded that any knowledgeable hunter would argue this. If you found a match bullet that's good enough for you, then great. Enjoy reveling in its adequacy.

 

[CuTm]

Bagging on me LOL. I have seen Deer go 200 yards with hunting bullets through their hearts. There really is no rhyme nor reason to how far some can go. Someone thinking they can predict it reliably and basing their bullet selection on that is funny to me.

I’ve shot animals with all kinds of bullets from all sorts of rifles , it always makes me wonder how stuff runs with a hole in its heart . Nuts .

 

[supercorndogs]

Oh, yeah? Well I've seen "Deer" with MATCH bullets through their hearts go 201 yds.

I said I was NOT bagging on you. I was trying to be congenial despite disagreeing with your position. By refusing to return the favor, you've turned a polite discussion (spaniel, aside) into a pissing contest.

Hunting bullets do what they're designed to do, transfer energy to flesh, better than match bullets. I'm astounded that any knowledgeable hunter would argue this. If you found a match bullet that's good enough for you, then great. Enjoy reveling in its adequacy.

If you just want to say your piece with out having anyone answer, don't quote anybody when you say it.

Hunting bullets are a gimmick. All they do is transfer more money from your wallet, as a way to perpetuate the fantasy that they kill better.

 

[FatBoy]

Bagging on me LOL. I have seen Deer go 200 yards with hunting bullets through their hearts. There really is no rhyme nor reason to how far some can go. Someone thinking they can predict it reliably and basing their bullet selection on that is funny to me.

This is why I started setting setting my shots up to break at least one shoulder. Taking out at least one wheel when you let the wind out keeps them relatively close. The VAST majority drop on the spot, some make it 20-30 yards but people underestimate whitetail. Some of them fuckers will surprise you.

I have used several kinds of bullets. Some, I'll never use again. The TC "power belts" is one. Of course this is muzzleloader but I took two with them one day. Not a drop of blood and a 45 cal hole on both sides, one through the far shoulder at 35 yards. Others swear by them. You lay your money down and take your chances.

 

[Tucker301]

High center front shoulder. No looking for anything. Lose a shoulder, maybe both, but you get the deer.
If you're going to be hunting in conditions where a 50 yard shot on a 100 yard zero is a possibility then take a shot or two at 50 to see where your POI is going to be. Then you know where to hold to compensate.
And yes, if he bucked like a bronco, you hit him. Likely just punched a hole below his heart and it went through and through.

 

[Tucker301]

Dot shows where you should have been trying to hit this deer. Not POA - POI.

 

[supercorndogs]

I like to try and get both lungs. I prefer to eat the heart, and don't like messing up the meat on one shoulder. I often hit one shoulder or the heart still. No big deal as long as it through the boiler room. I would be about 1 mil up and half mil left from the POA in the picture. It would likely get both lungs and the shoulder on the back side.

Is that the Tango 6?

 

[stello1001]

Just an FYI, I'm not saying you guys are saying I shot where my crosshair is at on the pic. The pic is one I took way before I fired at him and only posted the pic to show the buck. He was positioned differently when I took the shot and my POA was right where head and neck connect.

The idea of taking a few shots at 35 yards and maybe 50 yards isn't bad at all. I'm definitely going to consider that to see where my POI is in relation to my POA when comparing against my zero which is at 100 yards.

I like to try and get both lungs. I prefer to eat the heart, and don't like messing up the meat on one shoulder. I often hit one shoulder or the heart still. No big deal as long as it through the boiler room. I would be about 1 mil up and half mil left from the POA in the picture. It would likely get both lungs and the shoulder on the back side.

Is that the Tango 6?

Yes, this is a tango6 4-24...
Supercorndogs, I'm not trying to argue with you, as I agree with what you posted previously. I've seen bucks run hard and far after being hit on the heart with hunting bullets. One I'll never forget, is when an old man with many many years of experience, friend of my dad, shot a buck with his .270. We found him approximately 200 yards in the brush from where he was shot, and was hit on the heart. No doubt these are very strong animals. I also don't doubt that match bullets kill just fine if shot placement is good. Like you said, if you poke a hole in the heart, it's gonna die, no matter what. So I'm very neutral and try to see both sides. I just feel like hunting bullets such as ELD-X and fusion are actually designed to stay together and expand. I know I've seen some match bullets mushroom up as well in the match bullet kills thread. So do you think maybe the match bullet idea in my head is a non issue and maybe I'm just over thinking it?

 

[supercorndogs]

Just an FYI, I'm not saying you guys are saying I shot where my crosshair is at on the pic. The pic is one I took way before I fired at him and only posted the pic to show the buck. He was positioned differently when I took the shot and my POA was right where head and neck connect.

The idea of taking a few shots at 35 yards and maybe 50 yards isn't bad at all. I'm definitely going to consider that to see where my POI is in relation to my POA when comparing against my zero which is at 100 yards.




Yes, this is a tango6 4-24...
Supercorndogs, I'm not trying to argue with you, as I agree with what you posted previously. I've seen bucks run hard and far after being hit on the heart with hunting bullets. One I'll never forget, is when an old man with many many years of experience, friend of my dad, shot a buck with his .270. We found him approximately 200 yards in the brush from where he was shot, and was hit on the heart. No doubt these are very strong animals. I also don't doubt that match bullets kill just fine if shot placement is good. Like you said, if you poke a hole in the heart, it's gonna die, no matter what. So I'm very neutral and try to see both sides. I just feel like hunting bullets such as ELD-X and fusion are actually designed to stay together and expand. I know I've seen some match bullets mushroom up as well in the match bullet kills thread. So do you think maybe the match bullet idea in my head is a non issue and maybe I'm just over thinking it?

The only reason I am using the 140 ELD instead of the 143 ELD-x is because my barrel doesn't like the 143. I don't see a reason to change back and forth, in that case I wanted the slightly higher B.C, but my light varmint barrel wants what it wants.

I think the designed to expand is as much marketing as reality. The a max always expanded well for me and left a large exit wound, and big blood trail. The 165 speer soft point I used worked great also, but I don't like switching back and forth.

How are the turrets are yours? I expected the clicks to be a little more distinct than they are on mine.

 

[stello1001]

The only reason I am using the 140 ELD instead of the 143 ELD-x is because my barrel doesn't like the 143. I don't see a reason to change back and forth, in that case I wanted the slightly higher B.C, but my light varmint barrel wants what it wants.

I think the designed to expand is as much marketing as reality. The a max always expanded well for me and left a large exit wound, and big blood trail. The 165 speer soft point I used worked great also, but I don't like switching back and forth.

How are the turrets are yours? I expected the clicks to be a little more distinct than they are on mine.

Thanks for your input.
I don't think my turrets are the best but they really aren't bad. They don't click too loud as other scopes I've had. They do feel to have some slight bit of suction which is caused by air. I know someone on here posted in a thread somewhere a way to get the air out so there is no suction on them. They are not sucky turrets honestly but I wouldn't say they are top notch. I think you had a weaver tactical 6-30x56 at some point if i recall correctly, I did too. I liked that scope better overall.

 

[supercorndogs]

Thanks for your input.
I don't think my turrets are the best but they really aren't bad. They don't click too loud as other scopes I've had. They do feel to have some slight bit of suction which is caused by air. I know someone on here posted in a thread somewhere a way to get the air out so there is no suction on them. They are not sucky turrets honestly but I wouldn't say they are top notch. I think you had a weaver tactical 6-30x56 at some point if i recall correctly, I did too. I liked that scope better overall.

I did have a couple of the big Weavers. About the only thing I preferred was the turret clicks on the big weaver. I like the Tango 6, I kept hearing the glass was better than the Cronus, not in my samples. I just wondered about the turrets for 2k. Like you say, not sucky, but not what I expected.