Suppressors Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

bm11

bm11

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2010
2,562
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41
Maine
#1
So, I got in my thread adapters last night, they look very nice and well done. However, in getting to the range, I was not able to hold better than 4 moa using my suppressor and thread adapters, using 2 rifles that are normally .5 moa. This suggests to me that I was most likely getting baffle strikes, unless the adapters are somehow causing the accuracy issue.

Furthermore, my AW usually experiences a shift of .3 mil, suppressor on vs off. I was getting more like 1.5-2 mil's of downward shift.

Just looking for a little input here. I did go back to the range with my AW after, and it still held sub .5 moa with the suppressor on, so it doesn't seem like my can is ruined. I don't really have any equipment to check for baffle strikes, nor do I really know what I'm looking for.

-Bob
 
#2
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

I'm guessing it was a 308 can. Were you trying the can on different calibers like .223? My 308 can is not liked on my .223 AR and has similar results.
 
#3
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

Shine a light in and look for shiny copper spots, otherwise if you have one, you will know...

When adding something to the system like that you should always check from the bolt end down the system to see if you can see it is off center.
 
#4
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shine a light in and look for shiny copper spots, otherwise if you have one, you will know...

When adding something to the system like that you should always check from the bolt end down the system to see if you can see it is off center. </div></div>


Yep. Frank gets a cookie. Good answer.
smile.gif
 
#5
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

Also, you don't have to have a lot of misalignment to cause accuracy issues. You could have the suppressor bore line off just enough to cause uneven pressure around the projectile upon exiting the device but not enough misalignment to cause actual contact. I've seen this a lot of threads not perfectly concentric to the bore.
 
#6
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattsnuked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm guessing it was a 308 can. Were you trying the can on different calibers like .223? My 308 can is not liked on my .223 AR and has similar results. </div></div>It was a .308 can with other .308's (AW can used on a TRG-22 and an OBR.)
 
#8
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shine a light in and look for shiny copper spots, otherwise if you have one, you will know...

When adding something to the system like that you should always check from the bolt end down the system to see if you can see it is off center. </div></div>Yeah, checked it from the bore end before I used it, and it looked to be concentric to me, though you know how that goes. I just took a look in it, and there are a couple of spots that look a bit shinier than others, though it is tough to tell. Also, there are what almost appear to be pieces of lint in the suppressor, it could just be carbon but then again, it could be copper shavings. At the exit end of the suppressor, there are no signs of bullet contact in the finish, which I think is a good sign (I would think a bullet destabilized by a strike wouldn't exit a small hole right on center.)
 
#9
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, you don't have to have a lot of misalignment to cause accuracy issues. You could have the suppressor bore line off just enough to cause uneven pressure around the projectile upon exiting the device but not enough misalignment to cause actual contact. I've seen this a lot of threads not perfectly concentric to the bore.
</div></div>Good to know. It did look like the thread adapters were not making an even seal with the suppressor, as there appeared to be a bit of "blowback" behind the threaded portion of the adapter, concentrated in one area.
 
#10
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

..


First, questions:

1. factory barrel? factory threading? Why is this important? Well, far too many "smiths" actually center off of the OD of the barrel, not the ID. If your threading is factory, if your barrel is a good quality house, if your smith is known to center off ID, then we can set aside most issues relating to the centricity of the barrel threading Why most issues? Well, we need to ask questions as to nature and design of the barrel flat (shoulder) and the rear (mate) of the adapter on BOTH ends.

2. What adapter? Who made it? What caliber under bore? To what can? Why is this important? Few adapter makers center of OD, but I have seen them. Add an OD barrel to an OD adapter to some brand cans and the probability of strike increase geometrically. ID barrel, ID adapter...we look to the can. Adapter makers take the brunt of misalignment issues, even when their adapters are perfect. Why? The OAL length increase prior to the can of an off threading exacerbates the barrels problems. When you thread on the adapter, did it feel as if it was "riding tight" on the barrel threads? Was it loose? Same when you thread on the can? Tight? Loose? Knowing the adapter maker will answer allot of questions.

3. What can? Trust me, it matters in some instances when using adapters. Not only because of poor alignment, asymetric baffles when firing underbore can have accuracy impact,

4. What did the target grouping look like? A mess, but lower, right, left?

5. Ammo, anything odd used that day. Everything stabilized? Did you shoot SUBSONICS?


Slightly grazed? You will see copper strike from the end cap end looking down.

Solid baffle hit?

Start at the end cap. A real hit is obvious metal deformation on the end. You've got 50 thou clearance minimum (and for some brands MUCH more) to go way out is obvious! Remember, your using an adapter so you maybe <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">sub caliber in addition </span></span>to typical can pathing, perhaps way sub original caliber. If you see anything on the threaded side, you are very off center.

"It did look like the thread <span style="font-weight: bold">adapters (plural?!) </span>were not making an even seal with the suppressor, as there appeared to be a bit of "blowback" behind the threaded portion of the adapter, concentrated in one area."

Front threaded portion (can) or threaded part (barrel)?

..
 
#11
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..


First, questions:

1. factory barrel? factory threading? Why is this important? Well, far too many "smiths" actually center off of the OD of the barrel, not the ID. If your threading is factory, if your barrel is a good quality house, if your smith is known to center off ID, then we can set aside most issues realting to the centricity of the barrel. Why most? Well, we need to ask questions as to nature and design of the barrel flat and the rear of the adapter.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The barrel is a factory AIAW barrel, with unmodified threads.
</span>

2. What adapter? Who made it? What caliber under bore? To what can? Why is this important? Few adapter makers center of OD, but I have seen them. Add an OD barrel to an OD adapter to some brand cans and the probability of strike increase geometrically. ID barrel, ID adapter...we look to the can.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Two different adapters, one from 5/8x24 to 18x1.5, and the other 18x1.0 to 18x1.5. ksville from here made it, I don't know how he makes it but he came very well recommended, and the work did look very very good. Here is what he says about his adapters: <span style="font-style: italic">All adapters are faced, bored and threaded internally then placed on a precision mandrel. The OD is then single point threaded. This procedure guarantees the adapter to be axially correct and the threads will be parallel to within .0005”.</span></span>

3. What can? Trust me, it matters in some instances when using adapters.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The can is a SAS Ti Arbiter, 7.62.</span>

4. What did the target grouping look like? pattern spread? POI off but generally well grouped? Low, High, Right, Left, uniform and repeatable? Loose and random?

<span style="font-weight: bold">The grouping was absolutely terrible. On my AW, the grouping was tight with a .3 mil down shift the first time I used it, a .1 mil up shift today. On the TRG-22, the grouping was all over the place, and not even consistently on paper at 100 yards. The OBR was also random, once I got it "zero'd" I shot a 4 inch group at 100 yards, the rifle is easily sub minute.</span>
.. </div></div>Answers above in bold.
 
#15
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

Here's what I've got:
IMAG0172.jpg

IMAG0173.jpg

The Sako adapter he matched to the diameter of the barrel, didn't on the OBR (I didn't ask.) He didn't get a chance to bevel the OBR adapter (I was in a rush for time) but said it shouldn't effect performance. Both of them are matched to the countersink of the can:
IMAG0167.jpg
 
#16
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

..

The original SAS design centers off of the rear conical shoulder of the break. The nut you are showing here wont/cant do that.
When you thread your can on, does it stop on the shoulder face immediately after the threads? Or does it stop on the nut? If it is on the shoulder after the threads, that tiny transition shoulder isn't enough. If it is the nut, well that is no better than the fluted barrel no-no.

This one did cause a baffle strike..and a ton of head shaking disbelief that somebody thought this would cut it.

3.jpg




Compare this to this....

wewewy.jpg


IMAG0172copy.jpg

 
#17
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are running a adapter to a mount then a can on top of the mount? </div></div>No. The can is a single point, threaded 18x1.5. The adapter adapts the muzzle threads on my Sako (18x1.5) and my AR-10 (5/8x24) to the suppressor threads (18x1.5)

A picture of the setup all together:
100_2033.jpg
 
#18
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

RollingThunder-

My can is a single point, not a muzzle break thread on. I'll get you a picture of the threads it is designed for in a sec.
 
#19
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

.

No problem, please a close up of where the can meets its shoulder. All of this is to determin if the probabilities are there for misalignment to the point of a strike. This is a simple enough set-up that if the can soulders properly (and the parts are well made) nothing should stand in your way of getting it all to work. If the issue is not the alignment, then it is either ammo (anything unusual) or the can just not performing well. In other words, no strike, but terrible gas pathing.
 
#20
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

The can I have is designed to thread directly onto THIS muzzle:

IMAG0174.jpg


Please excuse the condition of my barrel. The muzzle brake developed a burr that took the cerakoat off the barrel, and normally it would be covered by the brake.
 
#21
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

I am really disappointed in Bobs experience with my adapters. The hex portion of these adapters have a raised face that should seat on the matching face on the suppressor. The change in zero sounds more like out of balance pressure surrounding the bullet as it passes through a non concentric area in the connections/suppressor. A baffle strike with a match king bullet (thin soft jacket) can be catastrofic, think goodness that didn't happen.
I appreciate any feedback that may be listed in this thread
Ken S
 
#24
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..

Good pic, get me one as good of the two adapters that close and the can on them.


.. </div></div>2 minutes...
 
#25
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

Both thread adapters:
IMAG0175.jpg


TRG-22 with adapter and SAS Ti Arbiter:
IMAG0176.jpg


I'll get you a pic of the OBR with the adapter and can mounted as well if you want, however, I don't think it is necessary- both performed equally poorly.
 
#26
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

..

Could have worked, should have worked, but the majority the can's shoulder is plainly seen in your photo. Needs to be 100% coverage, shoulder flat to can flat.

All that is left now is to determine if you had a strike.

Best Luck

..
 
#27
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..

Could have worked, should have worked, but the majority the can's shoulder is plainly seen in your photo. Needs to be 100% coverage, shoulder flat to can flat.

All that is left now is to determine if you had a strike.

Best Luck

.. </div></div>I'm not sure the picture reveals anything. This is how the can fits on the AW, no different from what the pictures can tell:
IMAG0179.jpg
 
#28
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

.,

Two things going on here:

1. See the large, squared shoulder on the original creakote barrel. That is the shoulder. I do not think I see an equally large and squared shoulder on either of the two adapters.

2. If I read the makers remarks (thanks) "The hex portion of these adapters have a raised face that should seat on the matching face on the suppressor" is not what the creakote design is all about. And IF that is the centering shoulder, it is not large enough to cover 100% of the can's rear face now being asked to be the centering shoulder.

But all of this, all of it, matters only if you had a strike because of this and not "out of balance pressure surrounding the bullet as it passes through a non concentric area in the connections/suppressor". I do not see where that disturbance would be given the simplicity of this set-up.

 
#29
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

I think with all the money you are spending you need to just go out and buy a suppressor for each that way you don't have this issue...

With all the images, I still don't see a cause or solutions other than, <span style="font-style: italic">"something is off"</span> which is only going to be fixed by removing the problem. IE, the adaptor and replacing it with a can for each system.
 
#31
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think with all the money you are spending you need to just go out and buy a suppressor for each that way you don't have this issue...

With all the images, I still don't see a cause or solutions other than, <span style="font-style: italic">"something is off"</span> which is only going to be fixed by removing the problem. IE, the adaptor and replacing it with a can for each system.

</div></div>Thought about this today. I put a bit of consideration into getting a Surefire or one of the other systems using a brake as an interface. However, I do have other options- send the SAS back and get it converted to the threaded muzzle brake design (this would require the AW and TRG being rethreaded 5/8x24, the SAS brake only comes 5/8x24,) I could also get the TRG barrel chopped and rethreaded 18x1.5 (the OBR is 16", can't go to bigger metric threads and can't cut shorter without registering as a SBR,) OR, I could just buy more cans. With the money invested here, I guess it's only a drop in the bucket:
IMAG0178.jpg
 
#32
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

You have enough barrel to chop some off for sure, and honestly why not get a second barrel threaded for the correct thread for both ?

Simply switch barrels... but really, you sort of hit on it, and why you invest in higher end stuff like the SF, because you know it will work across the platforms if you use the right adaptor.

But the point of the these systems, is to be able to change the barrels at home, so why wouldn't you ? Sort of my point with the semi's in today's age, changing barrels at home is a smart move. This for one of the very reasons. Instead of trying to "make it work" you have an option that simply works !
 
#33
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have enough barrel to chop some off for sure, and honestly why not get a second barrel threaded for the correct thread for both ?

Simply switch barrels... but really, you sort of hit on it, and why you invest in higher end stuff like the SF, because you know it will work across the platforms if you use the right adaptor.

But the point of the these systems, is to be able to change the barrels at home, so why wouldn't you ? Sort of my point with the semi's in today's age, changing barrels at home is a smart move. This for one of the very reasons. Instead of trying to "make it work" you have an option that simply works ! </div></div>Yeah, I am well setup for a switch barrel. I invested in a NICE dedicated barrel vise a bit ago, picked up an AW wrench, and probably will get a TRG wrench now that KRG is making them. Wouldn't be too hard to do one for the OBR IF it isn't a proprietary extension.
 
#34
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

So in conclusion- it is unsure whether or not my accuracy issues were minor baffle strikes or something else, but IF they were minor baffle strikes, as long as the can still functions properly and accurately on the AW it was designed for, it should be no issue, yes?
 
#36
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

fellas,

I don't know much about these things, but I am a mechanic, and an aspiring machinist.

In looking at your adapter setup, I see that you have threads running right up to the "flanges".

I think that either the threads on the barrel, or the threads in the can would need to be relieved at the junction point of the flanges, to prevent can offset, due to thread tolerance. I don't think it's good to have the thread running all the way to the flange. You might need a relief, or relief and shoulder (for snug fit).

And flat mating flanges.

Look at the thread relief in BM 11s barrel photo.
 
#37
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fellas,

I don't know much about these things, but I am a mechanic, and an aspiring machinist.

In looking at your adapter setup, I see that you have threads running right up to the "flanges".

I think that either the threads on the barrel, or the threads in the can would need to be relieved at the junction point of the flanges, to prevent can offset, due to thread tolerance. I don't think it's good to have the thread running all the way to the flange. You might need a relief, or relief and shoulder (for snug fit).

And flat mating flanges.

Look at the thread relief in BM 11s barrel photo. </div></div>You know, I noticed that. I re calipered things, and everything matches up. The only thing that doesn't, is that the barrel threads are cut back on the AW barrel by the shoulder, and not on the adapters. Is it possible that could cause an issue?
 
#39
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

..


Was surprised to see this thread still running.

bm11, the best way to go is what LL is recommending, adapters are not the best solution. Having said that, a well made adapter, properly designed for your needs will work. The issue you had has to do with the manner bywhich the adapter shoulders mated up. Your barrel, adapter, can is a straight forward connection. Barrel to can? BEST, Adapters can be perfectly adaquate, just not best.

There are some barrels that, because of their rarity, value or design cannot easily be changed or threaded, those barrels get adapters and are successfully suppressed. Do you have to be damn sure everything is right and tight all the time? Yes. Properly made, unusual thead and very complex adapter? $85 max. Barrel? The work is perfect and accounts not only for the threading and shouldering, but the pathway transitions as well. But that takes a person that really knows and works the barrel and the can.

Longshooter's observation is correct, but that alone is not what caused your issues. We still do not know if you had a strike (centering) or gas path disruption (accuracy)

Here are some beautifully made adapters in a variety of odd threads:

1. Notice the clear, sharp, broad shoulder
2. Notice the thread relieved as per Longshooter's observation.
3. Notice the properly relieved internal threading.
4. Everything with a thread protector, everything blackened.

adapt.jpg


There are guys out there you can send drawings to and get it done perfectly.

adapt2.jpg


Lastly, if your thinking about a Surefire can before you have heard all the others, well...your doing it again! There are a number of makers that when you hear them, you will not be buying Surefire.


Best.

..



 
#40
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

I follow you. Another question- while less than ideal, is it still possible to use a thread adapter and maintain accuracy, or will some always be lost due to the nature of the design?

These thread protectors were not designed to be a permanent solution, more like a band-aid until I get more cans and/or rethread. However, no sense in using them at all if my accuracy goes to complete shit.
 
#41
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

..


Great question!

The answer is a properly designed can will always consider the transition from the crown to the can. It, like the crown itself, effects accuracy. In other words, when the gases first get an opportunity to escape the muzzle, you want those gases to escape uniformly for the full 360. That is why serious marksman take the crown so seriously. Escaping gas imbalances at the crown are very disruptive to the projectile's flight path. The crown's shape, uniformity and ultimate care is a real concern for them. They look at a thread job as a possible intrusion into their accuracy and demand perfect work. Is this a particular problem for adapters? Hell no. Think of QD breaks. Big science? Hell no. QD, with its break component flows the gas in the wrong direction for the can! That being rearward! Dwell time increases and you get a static hot-spot. Hell, they will look at the carbon and don't put it all together "All this carbon is blowing back because of my break? I want it to flow efficiently through the primary, through all the baffles and chambers! (front purge)" All this said, some get accuracy out of their QD systems. But, it does require some thought as to how those very same gas jets transition to the can to the adapter and into the primary diffuser. Again, a great can design should include any transition to the primary including QD. In a perfect world your adapter maker knows the can. Accuracy issues are avoided.

PesLetonk.jpg


Look, folks are trying to politely say the following:

"If you can, don't use an adapter. If you must use one, buy it from somebody that knows the barrel and the can. IF you get a great adapter, just remember, your now tending two (2) threads tightness, not just one."

Nice crown....

muzz.jpg
 
#42
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

I never have trusted thread adapters. If you are off by just a little bit you have ruined your suppressor. Its just not worth taking a $800+ risk on a $25.00 piece of metal.

My 2 cents
 
#43
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

Cool,

I gotcha now!

One other thing that I didn't bring to your attention yesterday, because it slipped my mind until now- the threading in the can was such that the thread closest to the muzzle on the can pulled off when installed in the adapter. I have no better way of explaining it, but I believe the thread was weak but holding on the muzzle, as this is the portion of thread that normally would be in the beveled non-threaded section of the factory threads. When introduced to the thread adapter threaded all the way to the shoulder, this weakness was exposed under torque, causing this section of threading to pull off. It then sat on the shoulder portion of the suppressor, possibly interrupting the seal created by the adapter. I noticed this last night and was able to successfully pull this section of threading out of my suppressor.

I hope that explanation was clear enough that you could follow it. I wish I had taken a picture, but I imprudently had a few too many winter ales last evening.

-Bob
 
#44
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never have trusted thread adapters. If you are off by just a little bit you have ruined your suppressor. Its just not worth taking a $800+ risk on a $25.00 piece of metal.

My 2 cents </div></div>I agree. I had a little apprehension before and more now. It's not even the $1000 I have invested (including the stamp) so much as the months it would cost to replace it. You can't just go to the store and grab another can when you ruin one!
 
#45
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never have trusted thread adapters. If you are off by just a little bit you have ruined your suppressor. Its just not worth taking a $800+ risk on a $25.00 piece of metal.

My 2 cents </div></div>I agree. I had a little apprehension before and more now. It's not even the $1000 I have invested (including the stamp) so much as the months it would cost to replace it. You can't just go to the store and grab another can when you ruin one! </div></div>

Yet you rolled the dice on the adapters. I agree with the thoughts on not trusting adapters. I've seen too many problems first-hand to ever consider going that route. You are lucky you didn't destroy this suppressor and possible cause harm to yourself or someone else.

Best of luck.
 
#46
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Yet you rolled the dice on the adapters. I agree with the thoughts on not trusting adapters. I've seen too many problems first-hand to ever consider going that route. You are lucky you didn't destroy this suppressor and possible cause harm to yourself or someone else.

Best of luck. </div></div>Well, in my defense, I did a fair bit of searching around on HERE, and it was a common recommended practice. I didn't find anyone advising against it.
 
#47
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Yet you rolled the dice on the adapters. I agree with the thoughts on not trusting adapters. I've seen too many problems first-hand to ever consider going that route. You are lucky you didn't destroy this suppressor and possible cause harm to yourself or someone else.

Best of luck. </div></div>Well, in my defense, I did a fair bit of searching around on HERE, and it was a common recommended practice. I didn't find anyone advising against it. </div></div>

Understood. That is the downside with the "errornet". Too often people will post comments when they really have no or maybe just limited experience on a subject matter. If you would have called some of the more respected 'smiths (especially those pretty knowledgeable about suppressor use on precision weapons) on this board and discussed with them what you wanted to do I bet most if not all would caution you about using an adapter. I know the answer from this shop would have been to not do it.

It doesn't matter now because what is done has been done. Sucks you had to go through this.
 
#49
Re: Dissapointing range trip using thread adapters...

If it were me, I would have the TRG cut and re-threaded to 5/8-24. Then while it is at the Smith' decide weather you want a single point suppressor or a Surefire. If you want the Surefire, have the Smith' contour the barrel for the adapter....then order another one for the OBR. If you are going with a single point, Order up an AWC Thundertrap in 300WM threaded 5/8-24 and be happy as a lark.
 
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