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Gunsmithing DIY savage bolt lift kit...

#52
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Ok a few answers,

The BAS is .850" OD at the head and the threaded part is 1/2" in diameter.

You could use the BAS as the upper part of the thrust bearing, I didn't because mine wasn't as smooth as the bearings. I have found one way to polish the bottom of the BAS is to cut a 1/4" allen wrench, leaving a straight section. Chuck the 1/4" into a drill press. Put the BAS on it and when you pull down on the handle of the drill press it forces the bootom of the BAS onto the sandpaper that is on the table of the drill press. I hope that makes sense, if not let me know and I'll try to get pictures.

Backwards LeeH
grin.gif

If you don't install the spacer with the bearings installed the spring pressure will increase. It is when you install the spacer without the bearings that the pressure decreases. Trust me I know
grin.gif


Dolomite

AXEMAN, let me know if you want me to start another thread so we don't sidetrack yours, I knw it is kind of too late but no sense in keeping it going.
 
#53
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

so i installed my 38casing blk and my bolt was actually harder to operate! I'm thinkin i didn't remove enough off the cocking sleeve to make up for the difference in height with the blk. oh try try again.
 
#55
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

um ok, so i'm not brilliant, i had a brain fart. I failed to take into consideration that my bas has a shank on the end that fits into the cocking sleeve! Therefore by adding the 38casing, and only removing the difference in the casing lip and ball bearing, i still have about .150" of unaccounted for added length. Does this sound right? I think i need a flat bas or i'm gonna have to do some work on mine. Is there some place that i can buy a new bas and cocking sleeve if i screw mine up? Cuz i'm sure i will!
 
#56
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

.150" seems a bit much to me. Mine are about the same thickness and only come in at .075" thick. The bearings might be a little bigger but I really can't see them sticking out 3x the thickness of the 38 special rim wich is about .055" thick.

Now if you are talking about the thrust bearing then yes you definintely need to take some off.

I'll try to help all I can or if you want we can take it to PM's at this point. Also, might need a few pictures to help figure it out. If you want we can talk on the phone to get it figured out for you.

Dolomite
 
#57
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

yeah like i said i never trimmed anything, i just dropped in the case head and away i went. post pictures cause i cant really tell where you are. mine was fine just dropping in the case head and reassembling normally. the BAS went all the way in and the action cycled with no issues. ill have to wait til i get it back into the stock to evaluate it, its hard to tell with holding a barreled action vs the whole rifle.

dolomite we can just keep it all here, im good with that, its all related material and a developing thought process. good idea on that drill press polishing. i wonder if it could be hardenend some? but for the cost of it and chances of it actually wearing out, just buy and replace rather than harden
 
#60
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

js0f0p.jpg


js0f0p.jpg


2r6pjyx.jpg


hopefully this will help explain what i'm talking about. You can see that there is a substantial amount of the bas that actually goes inside the cocking sleeve when in the stock configuration. When you put the casing spacer in the cocking sleeve, not only do you have approximately .100 of spacer and bearing, you have the part of the bas that would have been inside the cocking sleeve, which i measure to about .150" with my digital calipers. So from what i can see, i would need to have the bas taken down to the threads pretty much to alleviate this problem. What do you guys think?
 
#62
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

look at the difference in the BAS in my pictures and the one you have. in your case, and this is just me thinking, i would shorten that part of the BAS to the threads, run the lift kit and i would have left the sleeve alone at first. especially after seeing the difference in BAS design. but give some time and i am sure this can get thought out... maybe in your case the thrust washers and no modification of the BAS at this time?? given the chance that your bolt is unique or just different than mine or others, yours could be older, earlier design? but its worth being curious about. possibly ask on savage shooters forum with the pics you have. also move back a little, your too close for the camera to focus. im thinking trust washer
 
#63
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

I do believe the pictures are of a earlier design that has a slotted BAS. Or possibly what they call a "J" action which is basically a mix of the short and long actions. The way to tell is measure the action screws, if they are 4.5" then it is a J action. If it is 4.275 then it is a older SA and if it is 5.062" then it is a long action.

The newer actions, as in the last couple of years, have a bolt spacing of 4.41" but from looking at the BAS it doesn't appear to be a newer model. I would venture a gues that if the action screws are 4.5" or really close it is a J action. They were made in the 70's and 80's.

Register over at savageshooters and post a few pics. Someone will chime in with a fix to help you out I am sure.

Dolomite
 
#64
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

I'm registered there already. It is a long action with 5.062" bolt spacing. I'm pretty positive that i can simply take the BAS down to the threads and achieve the desired results. If not, i'll get a new one or a complete new bolt. I want a spiral flute bolt anyways, cuz they just look cool. I have no idea how old this gun is, i know i've owned for a better then 10years and bought it used at a pawn shop right before an elk hunting trip. I love the caliber and it's range, but have been thinking about build a custom 6.5x47 Lapua. I have to get with my machine shop and see if he can cut it down for me. I'm pretty sure that my gunsmith and I have this figured out. I get with him any time i'm not sure about what i'm doing and we can usually figure it out. Thanks for the info on the bolt though.

Yeah axe i already checked your photos and even some of dolomites on savage shooters, this was what was throwing me off. I'll keep you guys posted on what i figure out. Oh, by the way there was only about .040 taken off the cocking sleeve, just to see if it would help. It didn't change much with the casing still in the sleeve.
Appreciate it guys.
 
#65
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Tag. I've been doing a lot of reading lately on this subject. Looking for the least expensive means of improving the lift, and smoothness of my bolt on my Savage 10. I keep going back and forth on the matter.

Axeman, you are in Topeka, only a hour from me here in KC. If you'd like to get together when your rifles together, or even before then, we can do some shooting, or perhaps I can just learn some thing from you. I'm a bit timid to take my bolt apart at this time. I'm sure I just need to do it and quit being a sissy about it.

Don't know if you have a good long place to shoot, but about 25min east of me (NE KC) I have a great spot at about 1200y long and quite safe, we can go there. I need somebody to shoot with, going out by myself is getting old.

Branden
 
#66
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

well got the bas milled down and took another .060" off the cocking sleeve, seems to work fine, however i haven't shot it yet. lift feels slightly easier, not sure if it was worth the work and effort, but a slight improvement. Of course i haven't put any grease or oil back in the bolt yet which will probably help a little more, who knows. Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it.
 
#67
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Guys,

Long before I read this post I purchased a Stockade Bolt Lift Kit.

It is similar to the 38 case head but I recall it looking thinner.
I haven't taken my bolt apart and I don't have a .38 case to compare to.

Questions:
Is anyone familiar with this kit?
Is it thin enough that I should not need to do any trimming?

Thank you,

Jeff
 
#68
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

But what about us Guy's that have the "cocking indicator"
bolts and are not able to have a T&T by SSS, SURE I would love to have one, But I am not able to at this time.
What's left??....
I think you can guess that...
So, maybe we get just a "little" bit lighter on the lift and
maybe just a "little" bit smoother action.
BUT it's better than what we started with.

A little bit of SOMETHING
Is a whole lot better than
A whole lot of NOTHING

Thanks Dad....For that bit of Wisdom

LeeH
 
#69
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

well from what i've seen with mine, and after completely taking my bolt apart and even polishing some of the parts that touch each other, such as the bolt head and forward peices there. I still do not notice much difference. I'm thinking i need an SSS T&T! I'm gonna have to check there site for costs. Anybody know or had it done?
 
#72
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: packratt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IIRC SSS T&T is around $125 </div></div>


Hmmmm $5.00 versus $125 AND a very long waiting list...

Want to make a loan??


(Grin)
 
#73
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Guys,

Long before I read this post I purchased a Stockade Bolt Lift Kit.

It is similar to the 38 case head but I recall it looking thinner.
I haven't taken my bolt apart and I don't have a .38 case to compare to.

Questions:
Is anyone familiar with this kit?
Is it thin enough that I should not need to do any trimming?

Thank you,

Jeff
 
#74
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LeeH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But what about us Guy's that have the "cocking indicator"
bolts and are not able to have a T&T by SSS, SURE I would love to have one, But I am not able to at this time.
What's left??....
I think you can guess that...
So, maybe we get just a "little" bit lighter on the lift and
maybe just a "little" bit smoother action.
BUT it's better than what we started with.

A little bit of SOMETHING
Is a whole lot better than
A whole lot of NOTHING

Thanks Dad....For that bit of Wisdom

LeeH </div></div>

UPDATE!!

Just got the bearings in and they will not work on the new bolts.
The "Indicator" is just too big to allow drilling out the
center of the bearing.
Looks like Savage Shooter's grooved washer is the only option.
WELL...I tried.

LeeH
 
#75
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,

Long before I read this post I purchased a Stockade Bolt Lift Kit.

It is similar to the 38 case head but I recall it looking thinner.
I haven't taken my bolt apart and I don't have a .38 case to compare to.

Questions:
Is anyone familiar with this kit?
Is it thin enough that I should not need to do any trimming?

Thank you,

Jeff
</div></div>


Kevin's kit still requires that you remove a small amount from the end of the BAS to get optimum functionality. but it will work without modification to the BAS. Plus, the stockade kit is all steel and well made. Worth the $7 in the time it would save you over modifying a 38 case (at least for me), as it is a drop in part.
 
#77
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Thanks JR.
I've seen posts in this thread that say to remove the width of the rim on the 38 case.
I'm certainly no expert but I would think the amount to be removed would be from the bottom of the rim to the top of the ball bearing.
Am I wrong?
 
#78
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

bottom of rim to top of bearing is what i removed. I have since worked on my trigger adjustments and with that being done i can feel a much better bolt. I am going to check and see if anybody makes a lighter spring for the, for lack of a knowledgable term, thing that the bolt cocks! I don't know what it's called.
 
#81
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

I did this tonight. I used the bearing from McMaster Carr and trimed the cocking sleeve using a tubuing cutter. You will need to make the cut gradually when using a tubing cutter but it works great. It did make a world of difference in the bolt operation. I ordered 8 bearings in case i screwed up. I also have 4 other savges to do. This is one mod that most can do on their own with few tools. I would suggest also polishing the cocking sleeve and the bottom of the BAS. I only used one washer so I had to polish the bottom of the BAS. It does seem that it would work best if you had the BAS machined down and that is probably what I will do on the next 4.
 
#82
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

i agree with you Julio, machine it down and then polish the end. I also the refinshed the end in black just to protect it from any rust or corrosion. Very simple mod, really you could do this with a bench grinder and a pair of calipers(digital preferrably)
 
#83
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

My version of the kit using the case is only .075" thick total. It works well without any cutting or grinding. I'll pm a few of you guys to get your addresses and send you one for free. LeeH is well aware of why I do this and I don't mind.

Dolomite
 
#84
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dolomite_Supafly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My version of the kit using the case is only .075" thick total. It works well without any cutting or grinding. I'll pm a few of you guys to get your addresses and send you one for free. LeeH is well aware of why I do this and I don't mind.

Dolomite </div></div>

AND...they do work with no grinding...

Couldn't resist that....
 
#85
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Ok guys, as always this mod is on you.

I just put it out for all to see what <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">I</span></span></span> did to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">MY</span></span></span> gun.

Dolomite

 
#86
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZmanwithaGinhand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">um ok, so i'm not brilliant, i had a brain fart. I failed to take into consideration that my bas has a shank on the end that fits into the cocking sleeve! Therefore by adding the 38casing, and only removing the difference in the casing lip and ball bearing, i still have about .150" of unaccounted for added length. Does this sound right? I think i need a flat bas or i'm gonna have to do some work on mine. Is there some place that i can buy a new bas and cocking sleeve if i screw mine up? Cuz i'm sure i will! </div></div>

You need to remove all of the shank from that style BAS. That shank used to slide down into the cocking sleeve. Now you lift kit keeps it out of the cocking sleeve plus the thickness of the lift kit.

Did you keep track of how much you trimmed off of the cocking sleeve? If you trimmed only the thickness of lift kit protrusion, you'll only need to take the shank off of the BAS.

I never trim the cocking sleeve. Your firing pin needs most of that area when in the cocked position. Trimming the BAS is the only way to go. Even if it is harder.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12886/Product/COCKING_PIECE_SLEEVE
 
#88
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Just did my 38 case lift kit install. Couldn't find a bearing that would drop into the primer hole. Did the next best thing. I removed a bearing from a female air hose connector. It was a little big so I drilled out the primer hole with a 13/64 bit and the bearing dropped right in. Then I drilled a slight indent in the center of the BAS for the bearing to ride in. Didn't do any further mod. to the bolt internals.
Seems to be a bit smoother.
Don't know if the added tension of the installed case head will effect anything.
 
#89
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

someone posted not to make an indent as it adds to the contact area. and having the ball in a cup as opposed to a flat surface, that makes sense. another guy said he took a 1/4" allen wrench and cut it to 2" or so and put it in a drill press. then after making sure the table was level and plumb and at all the right angles, then putting 320 or 600 grit wet/dry paper on the table and polishing the end of the BAS flat and smooth. then just adding a dab of lube. its just stuff i read that kinda makes sense. i was thinking indent too til someone said that anout the increased friction and contact
 
#90
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

It does increase the contact area. Not sure who's is better but my newer design 38 special case uses a sharp allen screw. It will make a small area of wear where the point rides but it seems like it is smaller than the bearing method but who knows.

I have used the 1/4" allen wrench cut off to square and smooth the BAS as you mention and it does work. SOmething else you can use to keep from hacking up a allen wrench is a longer screw driver bit. Just put the bit end in the drill press and use the other end to turn the BAS.

Dolomite
 
#91
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

its hard to keep track of who said what so i hope no one minds not getting credit for whatever but im not gonna read back thru it all, lol. but if this whole thing is read in its entirity? there is alot of info that can be combined to tweak the collection of ideas to get the best out of what we have out there. im not an idea person, but i can look at something and see room for improvement and bring other ideas into the process. i like the bearings that guy posted from the R/C car place. that may be worth looking into. and as usual, i dont have a cocking indicator, so i have no idea whats out there for those guys, sorry. it doesnt affect me, i dont pursue that but if i have a thought i will chime in
 
#93
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

I'm thinking the diy dohickey that it placed under the BAS need to be a snug fit in the bore that it is dropping in.

Otherwise it and the ball bearing will drop to the bottom and the b.b. will no longer be on centerline. Thus instead of the b.b. turning, on axis, it will rather be turning an arc on the face of the BAS.

even a crude buildup of tape or something would help to keep it far more on centerline.
 
#94
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

its a pretty good fit, but i hear what your saying. if you look at the contact point in the two pictures i posted its kind of an unintended before and after. the contact point it or could be a small arc as opposed to a single pivot point, but a good polishing and a nice heavy grease with graphite in it maybe would keep wear to a minimum. look at these two pics... you can see where the bottom on the BAS is solid black in one, the other has a small wear mark from just the short time i had the lift installed. with so little being needed trimmed off the BAS, one might be better served just polishing it. that would also remove the detent.

if you look at this picture or the one below, you see the contact area of the bearing after 10-20 cycles of the bolt... its blurry

4393750239_d753810432_b.jpg


you can see the BAS is unmarked

4403709754_4c17c18ea3_o.jpg









but even if there is wear, its an easy inspection and cheap replacement to fix any wear. and a good part of routine cleaning and maintenance
 
#95
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...


Gotcha cool. Yeah thats a close enough fit I imagine. For some reason on first take I was thinking it was no where near so close.
 
#96
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

OK, so what is the deal with the newer bolt assemblies with the "cocking indicator"?? I don't own my 10FP anymore... but the next one I get will be the 10PC... and that has the indicator!!

Can the indicator be removed without affecting the cocking action and allow the use of the bearing/case or bearing/washer setups??

DK
 
#97
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

there is no way to say this so it sounds right, lol, but if you read thru some of the posts, i think someone has a solution for the cocking indicator. plus that guy posted the link to the thing from the r/c car place that had thrust bearings with bigger center holes. mine dont have a cocking indicator so i really dont follow that stuff at all man, but there is something available. if not here, over on the savage shooter forum. or sharp shooter supply, one of the savage smiths. there is something

ok i polished this BAS today and took pics. it was raining. here is before. its not an indent, just a polished up area

4421096503_42fb605fbe_b.jpg


here i used 320 then 600 to polish. i set the paper on a sheet of glass and use that to keep it as flat as possible. first i laid a strip of blue tape and then the paper on that. i pressed the BAS flat on the 320 and spun it in my fingers. twisted it back and forth like a high school kid on his first nipple. then to the 600 and figure 8s ... anyway the center was still a little lower...its hard to tell the first was blued and the second is shiny silver metal...

4421863850_2d0e486afd_b.jpg


ok here is a photo tip. i wanted to show the center part and the difference in the metal finish showing the low spot. but flashes are known to wash out. im using an on camera in my dslr. i often put tissue or paper towel or a sheet of paper over the flash to diffuse it. but here i could see it in natural light... so before with flash

4421099095_bf3aebd800_b.jpg


so i cranked the asa film speed to 1600 and shot it with natural light and there is the low spot

4421910644_dfe501d93c_b.jpg


 
#98
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

Info much appreciated Axe. I must have missed it somewhere while going through all the replies. Sheeeez... this one is getting pretty long winded!!

DK
 
#100
Re: DIY savage bolt lift kit...

If you want to get Rowdy about it, You can cut/grind
off the indicator down to the shoulder.
It will be the same length as the old pins.
The indicator is just a extension of the firing pin.
You will just have a hole in the BAS, no big deal.
 
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