Do you Compete or just like to shoot?

Do you compete?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 131 49.8%

  • No, but I have plans to

    Votes: 78 29.7%

  • No, and I never will

    Votes: 54 20.5%
  • Total voters
    263
#51
Used to only hunt, but found out that the rush I get when my prey walks out for a shot, i can get at every stage of a match. Also a lot less field dressing involved.

I've only been to the club matches around me, never shot nationally, but this type of shooting (precision long range) is where its at for me. I also have 2 young boys that when the time is right will join me. I cant think of a better sport for them, that gets them behind a rifle, teaches respect, safety, competitiveness, humility, dedication, and confidence. All done surrounded by people who bleed red, white, and blue.
 
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#53
If it has a trigger and a scoresheet, I probably will like it. I started in my 20s with small bore, moved to IHMSA, then High Power. In my 30s it was mostly IDPA and USPSA, my 40s it was mostly 3Gun and now in my 50s, Sporting Clays and Precision look to be in the forefront. Have always mixed in Steel, Rimfire and Trap when I could make it out. I think I have tried almost every form of shooting competition there is at least a few times. Some held no appeal, others I was hooked right off the bat. This year, 11 majors in 7 different disciplines, 2 Precision, 2 3Gun, 2 Rimfire, 2 Shotgun, 1 2Gun, 1 USPSA, 1 PCC. Head Coach of my boys HS Sport Shooting Team, so running a HS Sport Shooting camp next week and we took 2nd in State our first year. Running a few majors and several NSSF First Shots programs and teaching a handful of classes as well. We also hunt 20-30 days a year. Have started several clubs and a dozen local matches as well as running some of the biggest national matches in the country. I am running 2 and working 2 this year.

Boys are 14 and 16 and they both play HS baseball, but love to shoot and hunt. They have very different tastes though, based on their personalities. I have come to realize that, at least today, there are so many formats that one is sure to appeal to everyone who likes a trigger. The camaraderie as well as benefits of just being a better shooter are certainly there. I have been successful at getting several LEOs to shoot competitively and they have seen the light and now do so several times a year.
 
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#54
I think PRS and many Tactical matches put a premium on strength and mobility, which are not my strong suits. That's OK, I like the idea, but know my presence would not be at all convenient for my fellow competitors or the organizers. Better for me to stick with something less physical.

I can handle shooting from a bench, and while I still try at Prone, it's pretty physical too, and I'm beginning to really suck at it, as in having issue with breathing. I really put may heart into it back in Feb 2017, but ended up retiring from the match early because of Cardio issues. That's OK, must know one's limitations. Meanwhile I still work at Prone, in an effort to expand my envelope, but it's taking a lot of time to make small incremental gains.

The beat goes on...

Greg
 
#55
competitions are probably 95% of my shooting

i go to belly/prone matches to true/verify dope

prs/field style matches to hit targets

pistol steel matches to work pistol

just shooting gets boring really fast for me
 
#56
morganlamprecht said:
competitions are probably 95% of my shooting

i go to belly/prone matches to true/verify dope

prs/field style matches to hit targets

pistol steel matches to work pistol

just shooting gets boring really fast for me
Click to expand...

Depending on your personal goals, you should probably switch that up. If your goals are just to have fun and enjoy your time at the range then carry on as you are, however if your goals include getting really good at one or multiple of these games you need to be training.

Shooting matches isn't training, it is a place to test/verify your training plan. When I decided I wanted to take pistol shooting kinda serious a few years ago, I didn't have the money to train as much as I would like, so I just shot matches with occasional (once every couple weeks) live fire training. To make up for the lack of live fire I tried to dry fire a fair bit, and I definitely did make some progress.

After awhile of doing that though, then graduating from school and getting a semi-real job leading to more disposable income, I decided to ACTUALLY take it serious and started live firing weekly, plus near daily dry fire (average about 5 days a week). I have gotten significantly better in the past 12 months than I think I had in the first couple years of shooting. Having a good training plan and working it is demonstrably better than matches alone.

Just food for thought.
 
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#57
I've never shoot a match. It might be something I do in the future, but for now I'm a casual shooter. Hell I don't even shoot that much. I spend the most time reading the forums and planing my next build.
 
#58
Gooldylocks said:
Depending on your personal goals, you should probably switch that up. If your goals are just to have fun and enjoy your time at the range then carry on as you are, however if your goals include getting really good at one or multiple of these games you need to be training.

Shooting matches isn't training, it is a place to test/verify your training plan. When I decided I wanted to take pistol shooting kinda serious a few years ago, I didn't have the money to train as much as I would like, so I just shot matches with occasional (once every couple weeks) live fire training. To make up for the lack of live fire I tried to dry fire a fair bit, and I definitely did make some progress.

After awhile of doing that though, then graduating from school and getting a semi-real job leading to more disposable income, I decided to ACTUALLY take it serious and started live firing weekly, plus near daily dry fire (average about 5 days a week). I have gotten significantly better in the past 12 months than I think I had in the first couple years of shooting. Having a good training plan and working it is demonstrably better than matches alone.

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

you arent wrong...i would get better by training...but then id be spending a ton of time training, and i got other stuff to do...and shooting matches has worked out pretty well so far
 
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#59
Gooldylocks said:
Shooting matches isn't training, it is a place to test/verify your training plan. When I decided I wanted to take pistol shooting kinda serious a few years ago, I didn't have the money to train as much as I would like, so I just shot matches with occasional (once every couple weeks) live fire training. To make up for the lack of live fire I tried to dry fire a fair bit, and I definitely did make some progress.
Click to expand...

Just an FYI... Morgan already kicks ass and takes names in the PRS circuit. We don't need him practicing and getting better. :)
 
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#60
Sheldon N said:
Just an FYI... Morgan already kicks ass and takes names in the PRS circuit. We don't need him practicing and getting better. :)
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Oh I don't doubt that at all, being able to win a PRS match is no small feat! But my point still stands.

Don't tell him I said that though. Maybe we can keep him off the training wagon to give everybody else a chance hahaha
 
#61
Gooldylocks, while I admire the dedication to training, not everyone can do it. Like most of my friends, wife, 2 kids, own 2 businesses and spend a lot of time helping others get into the shooting sports. My personal training takes a back seat. At 51, no left ACL, half a right quad, and fat, I do okay. It gives me goals to compete and improve, even with the minimal training.

But, and again something I learned several years ago, not everyone has the same competitive drive. For many, shooting is their downtime, like others watch TV or tie flies or paint. That "hobby" mentality is good for the shooting sports as MOST who compete are in that position. If they all had to practice and train, we would lose most of them. The whole concept of the TV show "Cheers" is what, in a "match format" most of us enjoy and experience. The further the parallel, some drink more, some drink less, but everyone knows your name.
 
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#62
MarkCO said:
Gooldylocks, while I admire the dedication to training, not everyone can do it. Like most of my friends, wife, 2 kids, own 2 businesses and spend a lot of time helping others get into the shooting sports. My personal training takes a back seat. At 51, no left ACL, half a right quad, and fat, I do okay. It gives me goals to compete and improve, even with the minimal training.

But, and again something I learned several years ago, not everyone has the same competitive drive. For many, shooting is their downtime, like others watch TV or tie flies or paint. That "hobby" mentality is good for the shooting sports as MOST who compete are in that position. If they all had to practice and train, we would lose most of them. The whole concept of the TV show "Cheers" is what, in a "match format" most of us enjoy and experience. The further the parallel, some drink more, some drink less, but everyone knows your name.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, and that's why I started my first comment with "depending on your personal goals." I have plenty of friends that don't care about training/how they place except for ribbing around the table after a club match when we go get lunch and beers. That is a perfectly good motivation, and one that I completely respect. Some of my very best shooting friends are in that category.

But if your goal with shooting matches is to get better and win, then keep winning, then what I wrote applies to you. I don't want to come across as the crazy "you have to train constantly or else you are a waste of oxygen and time at a match" guy, because that isn't me at all haha.
 
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#63
Interesting to read the different perspectives.

Yes. I compete. Two to four times a month, usually local USPSA/IDPA-style pistol or rimfire/centerfire rifle matches. In the past, I was heavily involved in NSSA skeet. I've only been involved in pistol competitions a couple of years, rifle about one year.

To those who anticipate competing but are hesitant, I'd say this:
  • Don't wait until you get "good." As long as you are safe and do not disrupt the flow of a competition, people will do all they can to help you improve.
  • Embrace competition as the best way to learn (along with classes). "Good" is a relative term anyway. I made it to AAA classifcation in all four gauges in NSSA skeet (98.5% average in 12 gauge); that year, I might have won a couple of class purses but no gun winner. At that level, all running 100 straight does is get you in the shootoff.
  • Nobody will remember your scores week to week, but people will remember how you act as you post them.
  • In pistol and rifle competition, you get to engage a variety of target arrangements you're not likely to have day to day at your local range.
  • If you are getting on in years are or otherwise not in a physical condition to run with the young bucks, compete anyway. I'm in my mid-60s, arthritic, gimpy leg. I don't compete to win anymore - I compete to stay active, learn new skills, meet fellow enthusiasts, engage a bunch of different targets, and simply Have Fun.
If you say you'll never compete: well, I said that for the first twenty years I shot skeet. Then I entered a formal, NSSA-sanctioned shoot. I was well and truly hooked. I started off as an A-class (mid-90% 12/20 gauge) shooter; I found everything changes when there's a referee standing there looking at you with a score pad and the pull button in his/her hand. I wasn't intimidated; it's just different.

Small, local pistol matches are inexpensive. Centerfire rifle matches (at least where I live) are significantly more expensive due to the investment in steel - but the rimfire matches are cheap and use exactly the same skills. So I personally do a couple of centerfire matches a year and every rimfire match I can get to.

You'll never learn as much as fast as you will competing. Just try it.
 
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#64
I love to shoot and only shot at ranges for several years. One of my buddies talked me into shooting a MOST (Missouri Steel Tactical) match a couple of years ago. I really have fun shooting in the MOST series. The really good shooters do a great job teaching and helping the lesser skilled at the matches. I'm not an upper level competitor, and likely never will be, but competing has made me a much better shooter. I've also been to a couple of matches at K&M. That is a fantastic place.

If you have never been to a match and are worried about not doing well, don't let that stop you. It will be fun and you will learn.
 
#65
Similar to the post above I love to shoot and primarily only shoot at ranges. However, I have a buddy that competes quite a bit and wants me to try a couple of matches next year. Knowing me, I will love it, and want to do it a lot more. Kind of why I've been avoiding it :).
 
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#67
Gooldylocks said:
Depending on your personal goals, you should probably switch that up. If your goals are just to have fun and enjoy your time at the range then carry on as you are, however if your goals include getting really good at one or multiple of these games you need to be training.

Shooting matches isn't training, it is a place to test/verify your training plan. When I decided I wanted to take pistol shooting kinda serious a few years ago, I didn't have the money to train as much as I would like, so I just shot matches with occasional (once every couple weeks) live fire training. To make up for the lack of live fire I tried to dry fire a fair bit, and I definitely did make some progress.

After awhile of doing that though, then graduating from school and getting a semi-real job leading to more disposable income, I decided to ACTUALLY take it serious and started live firing weekly, plus near daily dry fire (average about 5 days a week). I have gotten significantly better in the past 12 months than I think I had in the first couple years of shooting. Having a good training plan and working it is demonstrably better than matches alone.

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

The guy you quoted wins national level PRS matches, think he's doing okay...
 
#69
Gooldylocks said:
I know that. But that is irrelevant to my point.

More practice and fewer matches is better for improving your skills. There is no conversation to be had here, that is just a fact.
Click to expand...

The point is that Morgan is a top PRS shooter and whatever his training regiment is or isn't, he's doing something right. Unless you're also a top PRS shooter, you should probably try to take advice from the guy instead of giving it.
 
#70
redneckbmxer24 said:
The point is that Morgan is a top PRS shooter and whatever his training regiment is or isn't, he's doing something right. Unless you're also a top PRS shooter, you should probably try to take advice from the guy instead of giving it.
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I'm certainly not a top PRS shooter. But I am pretty decent/top-ish at another popular shooting sport, that being USPSA.

I'm willing to bet that Morgan doesn't even disagree with me. He even said so. I don't train as much as I should, for the exact same reasons he listed: I don't want to be training all the time when I could be doing other stuff. But that is the same old "do as I say, not as I do."
 
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#71
I used to be hardcore competitive about everything when I was a kid. Now I have a stressful job and I just shoot to relax. No need to make the stress relief more stressful by fighting against guys with endless budget and time when I'm highly constrained on both.
 
#72
Gooldylocks said:
But I am pretty decent/top-ish at another popular shooting sport, that being USPSA.
Click to expand...

As someone that knows more than a few great USPSA shooters, I've been told more than once that all the top shooters can pretty much shoot all the stages blindfolded off of muscle memory because they're the same every time. Therefor unless you have a simulation of every stage setup in your yard to train with, I highly disagree with you assessment to train more and shoot matches less. That makes absolutely no sense.

PRS isn't USPSA though and most stages are different.

As someone who shoots PRS and has been to a few different facilities, there's an advantage to having shot at them before and knowing which way the wind usually blows, what terrain effect the wind, what distance/where the berms are since they're usually used match to match, and that facilities props which some of are also used match to match. So yes, in PRS there is a serious advantage to getting out to more matches and facilities and learning them.
 
#73
redneckbmxer24 said:
As someone that knows more than a few great USPSA shooters, I've been told more than once that all the top shooters can pretty much shoot all the stages blindfolded off of muscle memory because they're the same every time. Therefor unless you have a simulation of every stage setup in your yard to train with, I highly disagree with you assessment to train more and shoot matches less. That makes absolutely no sense.

PRS isn't USPSA though and most stages are different.

As someone who shoots PRS and has been to a few different facilities, there's an advantage to having shot at them before and knowing which way the wind usually blows, what terrain effect the wind, what distance/where the berms are since they're usually used match to match, and that facilities props which some of are also used match to match. So yes, in PRS there is a serious advantage to getting out to more matches and facilities and learning them.
Click to expand...
You have a significant misunderstanding. The only USPSA stages that are the same are the classifier stages, of which there often isn't a single one at major matches. Same as the PRS Skills stages, though from my understanding it is fairly common to have those at majors as tie breakers.

Top shooters can shoot a stage blindfolded because they can memorize and visualize every single shot for the stage they are about to shoot. That is the most efficient way you can possibly shoot a stage. As soon as the timer beeps you are on autopilot just observing what is happening in front of you.

I also NEVER said don't ever shoot matches. But working on the assumption that for most people are working on finite time or money, or most likely, both. Shooting a match, even a local match, takes both more time and more money than going to the range and training. Not to mention that you can set things up in practice and actually work on them repeatedly, rather than just getting one go, on the clock, at each shooting problem.
 
#76
As a kid, I was surrounded by clubs that hosted matches, so we'd drive at most 2 hours and could take in over 20 comps a year. I was addicted for 7 or so years, then I got a driver's license and started spending time with young ladies. Less competitions were entered and the success rate declined rapidly.

Now, decades later, I struggle to get out shooting enough to maintain form. We are spending most of our time learning ELR and having a blast doing it. I plan to retire in a couple of years and may search out a dose of humility in a local comp or two, but more than that plan to support my kids if they ever choose to get into comps.
 
#80
I've been looking into our club's 2-Gun Combat Matches and slowly cobbling together the necessary gear. It requires a bit of movement, and I'll take my penalties as they come, but I think it might be something I could enjoy once a month.

Maybe they'll have a class for Feebs like me.

Greg
 
#81
lol imo precision rifle stuff is different than time based/repetition stuff...its not a matter of who can shoot point blank and reload the fastest (which is greatly improved by repetition and muscle memory)...its who can build a stable position and break clean shots in a given amount of time...once you have positions down pretty solid, its just trigger pulls and wind calls...practicing more would definitely make things smoother and faster tho, no doubt

if i didnt touch my rifle for 6 months, and then went to shoot a barricade, my position would still be solid

if i didnt touch a pistol for 6 months, my reloads and target aquisition would prolly be much sloppier
 
#82
Being a National-level competitor does not mean a person needs no advise, has no use for training, or that they should be closed to criticism of their methods.

Most of that level of competitor GOT there by listening to other's ideas and opinions (even if they might be wrong) and learning and training with others.

I'd bet Morgan here is no exception. He hopefully has the perspective and maturity to know that you CAN'T ever "lick" this sport. Just as soon as you Possible a match, the next time you shoot it, it will beat your ass into a 98%...and if you relax and rest on your laurels, the ass kickings by matches and other competitors increase not linearly...but exponentially. See, everybody else keeps getting better.

But in any case, I disagree that matches can't be practice/training.

Around here, most matches to me ARE practice, because I just don't care as much about the outcome of most matches I enter. Not until the level of a National Championship do I really begin to get tuned up, and even there, it's STILL just practice.

It's ALL practice until it really has to count, and that only happens when the target shoots back, or has teeth much bigger than yours.

The ability to keep that fully in perspective is a major difference between elite-level competitors, and the ones that are just "pretty good".

-Nate
 
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#83
natdscott said:
But in any case, I disagree that matches can't be practice/training.

Around here, most matches to me ARE practice, because I just don't care as much about the outcome of most matches I enter. Not until the level of a National Championship do I really begin to get tuned up, and even there, it's STILL just practice.

-Nate
Click to expand...

agree also...this year ive shot around 8 local club matches...ive won a couple, but ill also try new techniques or position approaches while on the clock (they dont always work out lol), and ive also shot everyone of them with a different rifle/caliber/optic combo

from 6.5 and 308 in an AI...to 6.5 in an Axiom/KRG...6 and 6.5 in an impact/foundation...and even a 6.5 gasser

would i likely do better if i stuck to one thing? absolutely...but ill get bored, and the club matches dont matter that much

just so it's clear...im not saying i know it all/am the best/cant learn/couldnt get better/etc....not saying that AT ALL lol

what im saying is if i can shoot 90+% of the guy practicing 50 hrs a month...by only shooting matches/truing dope, im fine with that time trade off cause this aint my job
 
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#85
morganlamprecht said:
just so it's clear...im not saying i know it all/am the best/cant learn/couldnt get better/etc....not saying that AT ALL lol

what im saying is if i can shoot 90+% of the guy practicing 50 hrs a month...by only shooting matches/truing dope, im fine with that time trade off cause this aint my job
Click to expand...
And that is the point I'm getting at. When you have reached a certain level, you can take time off, not practice, shoot other guns, etc and still be successful. It has become engrained in you. I can take time off and then go out and still be crushing .8 reloads or 2 second 25 yard bill drills, or win a match. But when I am practicing a lot and regularly, my performance is obviously better. It is when you want to be 105% of the guy practicing 50 hours a month rather than 90%, every time, you need to be training.

How much training is going to depend on you ("you" obviously being anyone, not you in particular Morgan). Maybe you only need 2 dry fire sessions a week to stay at that level. Maybe you need to add a live fire session on top of the dry fire. Maybe you need one less club match per month and spend an extra half a Saturday training. How much is going to be entirely personal based on your needs.

I feel like people are really missing the point of what I said. Matches aren't practice, in that you can't try again. If you mess something up, you can't go and do it again 10 more times until you have figured out the best way to do it. You get one shot, one attempt, one good 'ol college try. If you blow it, it's done, no takesie-backsies. No mulligans. In practice, you can try it over and over until you get it right, then perfect that method for you. Then you utilize that which you have learned and trained on to never make that mistake again in a match. Your apparent weakness becomes a strength next time you are shooting when it matters.

Let's suppose you are shooting a match and are really struggling to build a stable position and shoot off a tank trap. Can't get steady, can't get comfortable, can't call your shots, just generally anxious, whatever. The guy who doesn't shoot except for matches comes out for the next one and lo and behold, the tank trap. I know it torpedoed my match last month, and here it is again..... Oh no it killed me again, because now that weakness in my shooting is not only a shooting problem, but a mental game problem as well. The guy who trains on the other hand, went home after getting his ass kicked by the tank trap and dry fired it at home to figure out his position, then went to the range and shot a bunch of rounds off it in live fire. Now the next match shows up and instead of nerves, seeing the tank trap in a stage is a relief.

Agree? Disagree? This is an interesting conversation to me, for sure.
 
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#88
i agree, except that you can try again the next match...just dont repeat something that didnt work in the past...not all matches mean the same at the end of the day...i know some guys who wont show up to a local CLUB match if they havent got perfect reloads and trued dope to 1k+...ive screwed on a new barrel, dropped a random charge, verified zero, and chrono'd 3 rounds and shown up and done fine (im not the only one who does this)...people are just different lol

the one part that most people miss on is pressure

pressure busts pipes...ive seen tons of shooters, in practice, who couldnt miss positional shots on 2moa targets inside 600 yds...even with a clock going

ive seen those exact same shooters, miss the same shots in a match, over and over...whether its the pressure of the match, missing the wind call, panic, and not knowing where to correct...im not sure, but handling the pressure can only be gained by performing under it imo...mental game is a huge part of it
 
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#89
I've loved shooting competitions since I was a boy!

Funny story coming;

Age 14, our local county fair, at the BB gun competition booth. I was in first place until my Doctor, of all people, edged me out, lol. He got that Ithaca 22 and you know what I got?? I got a friggen rubber dingy, lol. I never did like that thing and of course it sprung a leak on the maiden voyage, lol.
I found out many years later that Doc was a national bullzeye pistol champion about the time of the great county fair battle we had, so I felt better, lol!
5 years ago, I ran into ole Doc on the street, I invited him to our local Field Target air rifle match. Doc comes to it, see's what it's all about, and comes back the next month with a $2000 air rifle and all the other stuff. A year or so later, at 82 years old, he won his first FT match! BTW, I need to mention for perspectives sake, that our Bobby C, the current US national champion, resides within our club!
One more thing, ole Doc, instructed by his adult kids, was asked to sell most of his guns and related items because those kids didn't want to mess with selling them upon his passing. Well Doc sold me a unfired 80's vintage 40x for $500 even though I offered more money. I guess that makes up for missing out on the Ithica 22, doesn't it! Thanks Doc and hang in there!

Discovering ... I worked myself up to B stock national champion at the American Handgunner World Shootoff in the 90's. Then went up to mid A. You know what I found out??? I could barely afford the 5000 rounds of rigorous practice the two months prior to the match, then there was the time to practice as well, and if I planned on winning "A", it'd require 15-20,000 rounds of practice. Nope, the mortgage, 3 kids in the home, etc, wasn't allowing. I was done because I knew I'd never advance. I did and do shoot local pistol matches, but only occasionally now. The cool thing is, at almost 58, I can shoot a whole match and stay in the A zone or sometimes for challenge I shoot all heads. Well also I have an olympic match air pistol that I practice with once in a while, that helps a bunch, and hitting a giant head shot is relatively easy compared to a 1.5" steel with the airgun, right?!

Continuation of the theme discovering... I have the ability to be a world FT air rifle champion, but I just don't have the energy or desire, I actually never did. I don't care for travel, the expenses, the practice involved to help ensure a win, so basically I found out I just do this stuff for fun which takes the pressure off and let's me really enjoy shooting. Instead, I host our local FT match, we all - my friends - including my nice wifey and their wives, and I, will camp out and plink, which to me is as fun as gets. This Saturday we'll have our first "tactical style" air rifle side shoot, sounds fun huh?!

Same thing with Tactical matches, I got into this stuff too late. My eyes suck now, body waning, don't want to travel, can't afford it, blah, blah, blah. But I did have my days in the sun for a time by winning a local series. I do love long range though, that's for sure. Just yesterday I was beating up a 15" plate at 981Y with my new 223AI using those 88gr ELDM, man that was good times.

The recent NRL22 has been a lot of fun! I'm sure glad this was started up in my locale.
Keeps my mind thinking about tactical centerfire matches, I just can't stop thinking about them. I need to get my eyes fixed and get off my lazy ass to exercise.

I'm very blessed because a close friend owns 80 acres backing FS so every Wednesday we have a shootfest, ELR to air rifle and everything between, you name it. That can include, exotic machine guns and a civil war cannon!!!

Trigger time, just staying a little in tune, it goes a long way come comp day. PCP air guns - try em out.
 
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#90
Gooldylocks said:
Matches aren't practice, in that you can't try again
Click to expand...

Counterpoint...

IMO one of the biggest things to overcome in precision rifle shooting is the adrenaline management of competition, clarifty of mind to execute all the dope/target acquisition and relaxation of body so that you can get steady and make a clean trigger break. The more you shoot matches the more that environment is familiar and you can execute to the best of your ability. Some guys naturally have ice in their veins and can shoot to 95% of their potential the very first time they go shoot a match. Other guys have worked that out from experience in other sports or shooting competition disciplines. But I would say the average guy goes to a match and will only perform to 50-75% of his potential. Going to matches helps narrow that gap.

Another big element of going to matches is learning the skill of problem solving. There are a lot of shooting problems that a match director can come up with and exposure to the unfamiliar helps build your skill of solving those problems on the fly. Also, the more scenarios you encounter the less and less often something is actually "new" to you. This is a tough thing to replicate on your own in training.

Now I'm not sure that a full 2 day match where you've got $1k in costs invested is the best place to "practice" like this, but club matches are perfect for sharpening the above skills. And obviously training and practice build your skill base and potential - I practice a ton. But you can't do practice in isolation and then got to a match expecting to crush it out of the gate.
 
#91
morganlamprecht said:
i agree, except that you can try again the next match...just dont repeat something that didnt work in the past...not all matches mean the same at the end of the day...i know some guys who wont show up to a local CLUB match if they havent got perfect reloads and trued dope to 1k+...ive screwed on a new barrel, dropped a random charge, verified zero, and chrono'd 3 rounds and shown up and done fine (im not the only one who does this)...people are just different lol

the one part that most people miss on is pressure

pressure busts pipes...ive seen tons of shooters, in practice, who couldnt miss positional shots on 2moa targets inside 600 yds...even with a clock going

ive seen those exact same shooters, miss the same shots in a match, over and over...whether its the pressure of the match, missing the wind call, panic, and not knowing where to correct...im not sure, but handling the pressure can only be gained by performing under it imo...mental game is a huge part of it
Click to expand...
100% agree about the mental game. I would argue that at the pointy end of just about any individual sport (be it golf, tennis, PRS, USPSA, etc) actual technical skill makes up a tiny fraction of whether or not you are successful (defining success as winning/doing your personal best in this case). The guys that are winning are doing so because they showed up to the match not saying "hey I could win this match," but rather "I am going to win this match." It isn't a question or a possibility, it is the definite future that just has yet to occur.

That is, for me, the most important training aspect you get out of local matches. Even if it is just for fun with your buddies, you can't get the same match pressure anywhere except for in a match. That is one of the biggest reasons to go shoot local matches for me. Well that and of course the overarching reason for all of this, because shooting matches is fun!

But once you have more or less figured that out for yourself, then it only takes occasional matches to stay on top of your mental game.

Have you read With Winning in Mind by Lanny Basham? It made a big difference in my mental game, which is by far my biggest challenge at matches. I highly recommend it to everyone reading this thread if you haven't.
 
#92
Sheldon N said:
Counterpoint...

IMO one of the biggest things to overcome in precision rifle shooting is the adrenaline management of competition, clarifty of mind to execute all the dope/target acquisition and relaxation of body so that you can get steady and make a clean trigger break. The more you shoot matches the more that environment is familiar and you can execute to the best of your ability. Some guys naturally have ice in their veins and can shoot to 95% of their potential the very first time they go shoot a match. Other guys have worked that out from experience in other sports or shooting competition disciplines. But I would say the average guy goes to a match and will only perform to 50-75% of his potential. Going to matches helps narrow that gap.

Another big element of going to matches is learning the skill of problem solving. There are a lot of shooting problems that a match director can come up with and exposure to the unfamiliar helps build your skill of solving those problems on the fly. Also, the more scenarios you encounter the less and less often something is actually "new" to you. This is a tough thing to replicate on your own in training.

Now I'm not sure that a full 2 day match where you've got $1k in costs invested is the best place to "practice" like this, but club matches are perfect for sharpening the above skills. And obviously training and practice build your skill base and potential - I practice a ton. But you can't do practice in isolation and then got to a match expecting to crush it out of the gate.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I completely agree. Practicing in isolation is not the right answer either, and I don't recommend that at all. I know those people as well, and if anything I think it makes their match anxiety worse. Because you are out of match shooting practice AND have high expectations of your personal performance because you know what you can do on the practice range.

I also agree with the new and unfamiliar shooting problem aspect. I tell that same thing to people very regularly in regards to USPSA. Most people are not motivated enough to drag out a bunch of walls and barrels and steel and swingers to do a practice session, so you go to a club match to see those things. But dragging out one piece of steel, a couple barrel stacks, a couple target stands... that most people will do. And with even those meager supplies you can recreate a lot of the situations you see in matches.

Not to mention that above all, the proper fundamentals reign supreme. It doesn't matter what kind of shooting sport you are partaking in, the fundamentals are king. Practicing those regularly just makes everything else easier. For USPSA that would be sight alignment, trigger press, draws, reloads, etc. For PRS it is probably sight alignment, trigger press, building a steady position, and moving effectively.


If your fundamentals are solid, and your mental game is strong, then you can apply your skills to unfamiliar situations in a match and still come out okay.
 
#93
Gooldylocks said:
100% agree about the mental game. I would argue that at the pointy end of just about any individual sport (be it golf, tennis, PRS, USPSA, etc) actual technical skill makes up a tiny fraction of whether or not you are successful (defining success as winning/doing your personal best in this case). The guys that are winning are doing so because they showed up to the match not saying "hey I could win this match," but rather "I am going to win this match." It isn't a question or a possibility, it is the definite future that just has yet to occur.

That is, for me, the most important training aspect you get out of local matches. Even if it is just for fun with your buddies, you can't get the same match pressure anywhere except for in a match. That is one of the biggest reasons to go shoot local matches for me. Well that and of course the overarching reason for all of this, because shooting matches is fun!

But once you have more or less figured that out for yourself, then it only takes occasional matches to stay on top of your mental game.

Have you read With Winning in Mind by Lanny Basham? It made a big difference in my mental game, which is by far my biggest challenge at matches. I highly recommend it to everyone reading this thread if you haven't.
Click to expand...

i havent, im not a reader at all...id rather smash my fingers with a hammer lol

when i was in high school i used to play golf with a local club pro who was pretty good and did well in local pro mini tour type events...he used to tell me when i showed up to a golf tourney i needed to walk onto the practice tee, look at everyone there, and ask "which one of you bitches is comin in 2nd today?" lol ive carried that with me into everything else, before every match if you asked me was i going to win or not...im always saying "yes" regardless of what i showed up with that day
 
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#95
My answer to your question is a simple YES! I shoot matches, but I also just go shoot for fun. Sometimes my wife shoots with me and we enjoy rangetime together, but she doesn’t like the stress and pressure of matches, so she leaves that to me. Every once in a while, I will RO a PRS match, just to help out. As shooters, if we don’t help out every once in a while, we will soon be out of matches due to MD burnout.
 
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#96
502Chevelle said:
My answer to your question is a simple YES! I shoot matches, but I also just go shoot for fun. Sometimes my wife shoots with me and we enjoy rangetime together, but she doesn’t like the stress and pressure of matches, so she leaves that to me. Every once in a while, I will RO a PRS match, just to help out. As shooters, if we don’t help out every once in a while, we will soon be out of matches due to MD burnout.
Click to expand...

Agree. When I see top shooters who also run a match, or work one or two a year, those are the guys I respect and want to be around.
 
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#97
For me, the most productive part of shooting comp came in the beginning, when I had to learn the sequence within the events and learn how to anticipate the next steps and be ready for them. Otherwise, I would always be playing catch-up, and that basically disrupted my concentration all to heck during the actual firing. I learned that establishing a solid routine allowed me to have the time to relax and keep my firing mantra effective.

It helped greatly that I had started out with National Match Highpower, which has a very clearly defined sequence which I was able to master effectively. The fact that most club matches adhere to the very consistent N/M match process gave me the ability to develop a successful routine and end up with the level of personal confidence that's flatly essential to being able to get your skills to progress. So in that respect, Club competition was my practice, and allowed me to stay sharp between bigger events at higher level venues.

I especially appreciate Morgan's comments about how the club matches allow him to try out novel approaches. I have always been a 'brain picker', often taking an extra moment to observe and imitate my fellow competitors, noticing wind changes and peeking at their shot markers to see how effective their wind corrections were. That occasionally saved me a point or two, but the main benefit was simply to gain some insightful variety in the solutions I might be able to work out for different situations.

The best part of any match, for me, has been during the pit service, where conversations allowed me to gain insight and help me solve problems with my approaches to match shooting. It is the part I miss most, but I'm not really physically equal to it anymore, and prefer not to inflict my own failings on serious shooters working hard on the other side of the berm.

When I was in the thick of frequent competition, no matter what the level, I heard so many say that you had to train like you compete. For me that translated into every shot is a separate match, in or out of comp. It helped with the attitude and mindset, but after a lot of it, the repetition after repetition also became very tedious. I had to take breaks from the mental aspect. That's how Scotty Woodward and I evolved the FV events; local exercises, run as a match, with minimal stress, and no avarice about shiny awards or valuable prizes. It was all just bragging rights among a growing assembly of local friends; the handwritten score sheet was the whole thing. We all grew alike and together; it was like a refreshing mind cleanse. I miss those guys and those days on the FV250 line.

The point being that there's competition, and there's competition, and it's all good.

Most of the N/M routine is repeated for F Class which was why I found the F Class so easy to transition into, with all the while my body slowly betraying my ability to shoot the slung positions anymore. Prone was better for me back then, but not now; the joints, the COPD, The CHF, and the reconstructed sternum have made that kinda suck, and these days I'm pretty much sticking with non-regimented bench shooting.

But it's not a chore, and there is nothing of true value lost in this transition process. I still smile just as big and have just as many good days; the POI's the thing, and it's still very much still there. Good company still, maybe always, makes for great shooting.

As far as the survey goes, I think that any answer is a good one, and that we are all at our own stages of performance and validation. I'm just a bit further along, coming back out the other end of the competition furball. It's all been good, and it still is.

Greg
 
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