-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Do you have to size new brass?
- Thread starter GuyCoker
- Start date
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
if its Lapua brass, some people just load and shoot,
but i fully prep everything new out the box, gets all the brass started on a level playing field.
i would suggest at least sizing them to get all the necks uniform, some of them get beat up a bit during transport.
if its Lapua brass, some people just load and shoot,
but i fully prep everything new out the box, gets all the brass started on a level playing field.
i would suggest at least sizing them to get all the necks uniform, some of them get beat up a bit during transport.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I at least neck size new brass. I have seen a lot of new brass that had case mouths bent. Most times I do my case trimming, chamfer and deburr on new brass but wait until after the first firing to do flash hole deburr and primer pocket uniforming.
I at least neck size new brass. I have seen a lot of new brass that had case mouths bent. Most times I do my case trimming, chamfer and deburr on new brass but wait until after the first firing to do flash hole deburr and primer pocket uniforming.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I just kiss the neck with the expander ball to bring them back to round. Other than that, they are as close to "OEM spec." as they'll ever be again, so I can't see the act of resizing them as anything but unnecessary work.
I just kiss the neck with the expander ball to bring them back to round. Other than that, they are as close to "OEM spec." as they'll ever be again, so I can't see the act of resizing them as anything but unnecessary work.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
Don't for get to debur and chamfer, at least with new Winchester brass.
Don't for get to debur and chamfer, at least with new Winchester brass.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I run all new brass thru the sizing die to get the dings out and make sure necks are perfectly round.
Then I debur/chamfer on my Girard trimmer.
I run all new brass thru the sizing die to get the dings out and make sure necks are perfectly round.
Then I debur/chamfer on my Girard trimmer.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I don't understand why some people don't size new brass, even if it is Lapua. What is the guarantee that
a) the mouths are going to be perfectly round
b) the necks are going to be sized for the proper neck tension you are looking for?
Just throw them thru the sizer
I don't understand why some people don't size new brass, even if it is Lapua. What is the guarantee that
a) the mouths are going to be perfectly round
b) the necks are going to be sized for the proper neck tension you are looking for?
Just throw them thru the sizer
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
NO!!! run them over the expander ball to round the necks, load and shoot.
NO!!! run them over the expander ball to round the necks, load and shoot.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I don't understand why some people don't size new brass</span>, even if it is Lapua. What is the guarantee that
a) the mouths are going to be perfectly round
b) the necks are going to be sized for the proper neck tension you are looking for?</div></div>
I run them in a neck sizing die if the mouths are all dinged up. If not, then I don't care. I don't shoot a benchrest rifle and 1/4-1/2 MOA ammo is accurate enough for what I do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I don't understand why some people don't size new brass</span>, even if it is Lapua. What is the guarantee that
a) the mouths are going to be perfectly round
b) the necks are going to be sized for the proper neck tension you are looking for?</div></div>
I run them in a neck sizing die if the mouths are all dinged up. If not, then I don't care. I don't shoot a benchrest rifle and 1/4-1/2 MOA ammo is accurate enough for what I do.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
IMHO FL sizing virgin brass is unnecessary but it definitely should be run thru a neck sizer or, at the very least, an expander die to make those necks nice and round before hitting them with the chamfer/deburr tool.
I'm not the greatest shot so when I can control other things I do.
I have a great rifle and I make great ammo. That way when I see improvement I know it's me that is improving. Never sell any part of this game short!
IMHO FL sizing virgin brass is unnecessary but it definitely should be run thru a neck sizer or, at the very least, an expander die to make those necks nice and round before hitting them with the chamfer/deburr tool.
I'm not the greatest shot so when I can control other things I do.
I have a great rifle and I make great ammo. That way when I see improvement I know it's me that is improving. Never sell any part of this game short!
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
It is virgin brass. What is a expander die? does it just size the case mouth and not the neck?
My normal process is:
Tumble
Size
Tumble
clean flash hole
Debur
Prime
Powder
seat
Am I missing something (expander Die)
It is virgin brass. What is a expander die? does it just size the case mouth and not the neck?
My normal process is:
Tumble
Size
Tumble
clean flash hole
Debur
Prime
Powder
seat
Am I missing something (expander Die)
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
Ditto to the general consensus. Run the expander ball into the mouth. Chamfer and go.
Even Lapua will occasionally have an out of round case mouth.
The expander ball is on your de-capping rod in your FL seating die. If you just run the case part way into the die, you can bring the neck/case mouth back into round without sizing the case body.
Ditto to the general consensus. Run the expander ball into the mouth. Chamfer and go.
Even Lapua will occasionally have an out of round case mouth.
The expander ball is on your de-capping rod in your FL seating die. If you just run the case part way into the die, you can bring the neck/case mouth back into round without sizing the case body.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Coker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is virgin brass. What is a expander die? does it just size the case mouth and not the neck?
Am I missing something (expander Die)
</div></div>
They are a no caliber die that accepts a mandrel of proper diameter. They are used mainly to expand neck properly before neck turning but will work very well to make the case necks of your brass uniform.
To be honest, the expander ball of your sizing die will provide the desired effect, consistent, round necks for proper case prep and bullet tension.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Coker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is virgin brass. What is a expander die? does it just size the case mouth and not the neck?
Am I missing something (expander Die)
</div></div>
They are a no caliber die that accepts a mandrel of proper diameter. They are used mainly to expand neck properly before neck turning but will work very well to make the case necks of your brass uniform.
To be honest, the expander ball of your sizing die will provide the desired effect, consistent, round necks for proper case prep and bullet tension.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
Actually, a better choice than the expander ball is the Lee Collet Neck Sizer. It presses the neck against the decapping rod so it is exactly aligned and uniformly round.
The neck sizing ball can actually cause the neck to be slightly misaligned.
After collet neck sizing my new brass, I then trim, chamfer, and do all the flash hole preparations. After firing, I anneal to ensure all the brass are on the same page ductility wise.
Actually, a better choice than the expander ball is the Lee Collet Neck Sizer. It presses the neck against the decapping rod so it is exactly aligned and uniformly round.
The neck sizing ball can actually cause the neck to be slightly misaligned.
After collet neck sizing my new brass, I then trim, chamfer, and do all the flash hole preparations. After firing, I anneal to ensure all the brass are on the same page ductility wise.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I think you should. This goes back to the principle where changing a component changes the load.
A case that has not been resized to a standard configuration is not the same as one which has been.
I have also had the exquisite joy of travelling half a day, staying overnight, and getting onto the line next day only to find out that my ammo did not chamber properly about 25% of the time.
Nowadays, I don't just trust things, I make certain. BTW, it was with brand new Rem .308 brass in a factory stock M1A. I now F/L resize everything before I use it.
Greg
I think you should. This goes back to the principle where changing a component changes the load.
A case that has not been resized to a standard configuration is not the same as one which has been.
I have also had the exquisite joy of travelling half a day, staying overnight, and getting onto the line next day only to find out that my ammo did not chamber properly about 25% of the time.
Nowadays, I don't just trust things, I make certain. BTW, it was with brand new Rem .308 brass in a factory stock M1A. I now F/L resize everything before I use it.
Greg
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I only shoot neck sized brass so the first firing is meaningless. My first firing is usually a sqib load of Blue Dot or 4198 to form the brass. After first firing then I uniform the primer flash holes, chamfer and prep the brass. Very seldom do I even size the entire length of the necks.
I only shoot neck sized brass so the first firing is meaningless. My first firing is usually a sqib load of Blue Dot or 4198 to form the brass. After first firing then I uniform the primer flash holes, chamfer and prep the brass. Very seldom do I even size the entire length of the necks.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also had the exquisite joy of travelling half a day, staying overnight, and getting onto the line next day only to find out that my ammo did not chamber properly about 25% of the time.</div></div>
Now you know why I never use new brass for a match, and I ALWAYS chamber EVERY round I intend to use in an important match. I would rather cull a round at home where I can pull it and replace it than several hundred miles away on the firing line.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also had the exquisite joy of travelling half a day, staying overnight, and getting onto the line next day only to find out that my ammo did not chamber properly about 25% of the time.</div></div>
Now you know why I never use new brass for a match, and I ALWAYS chamber EVERY round I intend to use in an important match. I would rather cull a round at home where I can pull it and replace it than several hundred miles away on the firing line.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, it was with brand new Rem .308 brass</div></div>
I've always just loaded and gone to town with factory new winchester brass without a hitch, so when someone gave me a couple hundred rem 308 cases new for free I loaded them all up in one night and half didn't chamber. Oops.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, it was with brand new Rem .308 brass</div></div>
I've always just loaded and gone to town with factory new winchester brass without a hitch, so when someone gave me a couple hundred rem 308 cases new for free I loaded them all up in one night and half didn't chamber. Oops.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
Yes, both replies now reflect my current practice. My anecdote explains why.
Yes, both replies now reflect my current practice. My anecdote explains why.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
this is why I prefer once fired to new.
With new cases, there are a few things that are different... they are not fireformed to you chamber and there is no carbon on the inside of the neck and the neck tension is wrong.... and if you go this far... the necks are not turned and the flash holes are not uniform.
At the bare minimum you should straighten the necks and set the neck tension. If you go further, turn the necks and do the flash holes. You can't really set the headspace until after you fire them once.
Even with once fired cases, you have to reference one of your own fired cases when setting up headspace but, IMHO, you get better hand loads from once fired cases. You can uniform the length and get better neck consistency.
this is why I prefer once fired to new.
With new cases, there are a few things that are different... they are not fireformed to you chamber and there is no carbon on the inside of the neck and the neck tension is wrong.... and if you go this far... the necks are not turned and the flash holes are not uniform.
At the bare minimum you should straighten the necks and set the neck tension. If you go further, turn the necks and do the flash holes. You can't really set the headspace until after you fire them once.
Even with once fired cases, you have to reference one of your own fired cases when setting up headspace but, IMHO, you get better hand loads from once fired cases. You can uniform the length and get better neck consistency.
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I think you should. I've never seen a new box/bag of fresh brass that has consistently circular necks. Bullets are not very good at neck sizing, and its hard on them.
I think using a mandrel is superior to the collet die, or a standard FLS die.
My process, starting with virgin brass is:
FLS with modified die to size the neck down ONLY as much as necessary
Trim to length
Debur
Neck turn
uniform primer pocket
uniform/debur flash hole
FLS
Load
I think you should. I've never seen a new box/bag of fresh brass that has consistently circular necks. Bullets are not very good at neck sizing, and its hard on them.
I think using a mandrel is superior to the collet die, or a standard FLS die.
My process, starting with virgin brass is:
FLS with modified die to size the neck down ONLY as much as necessary
Trim to length
Debur
Neck turn
uniform primer pocket
uniform/debur flash hole
FLS
Load
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
Depending on your neck sizer, it may not do anything to improve the circularity of the neck. A bushing neck sizer for example, doesn't help at all - unless you run a mandrel in first, of course!
Depending on your neck sizer, it may not do anything to improve the circularity of the neck. A bushing neck sizer for example, doesn't help at all - unless you run a mandrel in first, of course!
Re: Do you have to size new brass?
I guess I will just fully prep then. Thanks for all the help.
I guess I will just fully prep then. Thanks for all the help.
