Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

[dvdt]

I'm looking very hard at a GAP-10 22" in .260. Obviously the GAP is a DI system w/o an adjustable gas block. When you think of suppressing this rifle does it instantly give you heartburn simply b/c it is DI? If so, why?

I understand it's going to be dirtier, but I would <span style="text-decoration: underline">imagine</span> I could still get ~250 rnds w/o cleaning ? Anyone have real world experience that says otherwise ?

I pulled 250 rnds out of the air. The most I've ever sent down range in a single day was at a match and open range afterwards and that was 122 rounds total for the day.

Are there parts you would be worried about breaking simply because it is a suppressed DI?

Really appreciate everyone's 2 cents...

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

I have shot hundreds through a KAC SR 25 between cleanings. I would not worry about it.

 

[ORD]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Semi-autos with DI gas systems running suppressed shouldn't scare anyone! Is the piston system cleaner, more efficient, etc. when shooting suppressed? Probably. Is the DI system in any way "unsafe," "unusable," or does it give me "heartburn" to think about shooting it suppressed? Hell no.

People have been shooting DI gas guns suppressed for many decades and many, many thousands upon countless thousands of rounds.

When shooting any DI gun suppressed, it generally helps to have a heavier buffer (get with Slash re: his AR-10 rifle/carbine heavy buffers), heavier spring, carrier weight, adjustable gas system or some combination of the above so as to reduce the wear/tear that comes from the increased pressures, increased cyclic rate, etc. when you shoot an AR suppressed (saves on replacing broken bolt catches and general wear/tear on the upper receiver/parts). A gasbuster or similar charging handle that reduces/eliminates blowback in the face is also a good idea (at a minimum, the RTV fix is a good idea).

As for how long/how many rounds you'll be able to shoot in between cleanings when shooting suppressed...it all depends on the ammo (and how dirty it runs), barrel length, gas system length, how well the rifle is lubed (preventive maint. goes a long way), etc., etc. Lube the rifle generously and often and keep shooting 'til she quits!!

The only way to know the failure point of the rifle from carbon/crud build-up when shooting it suppressed is to shoot the hell out of it!! I don't think that 250rnds would be out of the realm of possibility, but again...it depends.

 

[dvdt]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Thanks for the replies.

Obviously this won't be a bullet hose (to steal a line from George) but if I took it to a class, I want to make sure I can shoot at least all day or weekend without any worries.

I had a guy recommend keeping a chamber brush on hand just in case the carbon build up in the chamber causes issues. That's easy enough.

btw - I tossed a thread over in the suppressor section and it's getting some great responses. I'll link the thread here in case it helps others.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2721427&gonew=1#UNREAD

ORD - Thank you! Any recommendations on lube that runs better or worse than others ? Granted I can search this, but if you don't mind...

 

[Chucky]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

I have run hundreds of rounds through my OBR and a GAP AR10 both suppressed without any issues. The OBR has an adjustable gas block and the GAP doesn't but I haven't had any issues. I usually just run CLP but there are a lot of other better lubes out there but I have a bunch of it laying around so that's what I oil my bolts with.

 

[chainring]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Heck no. Keep some lube handy if you are going to be doing high round counts, and get after it. No reason at all not to suppress that sucker. I'm a fan of the LWRC piston, but a lubed up DI runs just fine.

 

[VKC]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Boy that tells you how powerful marketing is. No problem with DI and suppressors.

 

[paraman1]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

A pard runs several suppressed DI AR's . HE uses synthetic ATF as a lube and he runs it WET ! I was talking to him about it just the other day and he said that the Synthetic ATF keeps the carbon from sticking to everything better than any other oil he has used . He also said that he has seen high round count , 750+ rounds , stoppages but that it was due to a lack of lube and when he re-lubed the BCG they started running fine again . He cleans his AR's completely about once a year .

 

[rsilvers]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

DI is better suppressed. It is almost always quieter, and piston gets about as dirty when suppressed because the stuff goes down the bore of any rifle, even an MP5 which is not gas operated at all.

 

[chainring]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DI is better suppressed. It is almost always quieter, and piston gets about as dirty when suppressed because the stuff goes down the bore of any rifle, even an MP5 which is not gas operated at all. </div></div>

Well....dunno about quieter, you guys with the meters can hash that one out. "Better" is a bit debatable, though. My parameters for choosing a host include such info as the fact that piston driven rifles don't get the fouling baked onto the interior of the rifle, nor does the lube burn away. DI can't provide that. Runs fine if you keep it lubed up, but piston runs "better" suppressed. I realize that Silver's perspective on suppressor use is driven mostly by getting it as quiet as possible, though, so I can understand the statement. Me, I don't want to have to put on hearing protection every time I bail out of the pickup and try to get a shot in at a coyote or hog before they disappear, and I don't want to have to clean the rifle. LWRC and AAC give me that.

 

[rsilvers]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Still, with a suppressor they both get dirty, and the SR25 Carbine is one of the most proven 308s for suppressor-compatible use regarding reliability. There is no evidence that a piston rifle exists which is more reliable when suppressed.

 

[Houston Armory]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

We have run suppressors in both gas and piston guns. There isn't any difference in how dirty a AR15 gets when you run hundred and thousands of rounds through one. As people have said before, most of the blow back is coming through the chamber when you shoot it suppressed. We do however, like to run chrome, boron nitrided, or Ion Bonded bolts for easier cleaning.

 

[dvdt]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Thanks for the replies guys.

I don't have any experience with this platform, especially suppressed. I'm just trying to do my homework.

 

[BookHound]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Houston Armory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have run suppressors in both gas and piston guns. There isn't any difference in how dirty a AR15 gets when you run hundred and thousands of rounds through one. As people have said before, most of the blow back is coming through the chamber when you shoot it suppressed. We do however, like to run chrome, boron nitrided, or Ion Bonded bolts for easier cleaning. </div></div>

Exactly my experience too.

Mark

 

[Captain Moroni]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

The only time that a suppressed DI or piston gun would scare me is if I was on the receiving end.

Its a trade off, if you want quiet you have to clean piston or DI. Until there is a standard piston with parts I can get anywhere I'll keep my DI.

 

[KYS]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Don't use oils..... use grease. Militec makes some great rifle grease that will slick that bolt up and stick to it better. Oils are going to run off the moving parts within the first few shots and your going to heat up quicker. Another good bit of advice is to Ion Bond or Nitride the bolt and carrier.

I shoot my GAP10 suppressed in 308 and its runs great. But I have heard in the 260's you will need a pretty long barrel to not see over pressure.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Wow a suppressed DI gun is as scary as kittens.

 

[FatCow]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

http://www.amazon.com/Lone-Survivor-Eyewitness-Account-Operation/dp/0316067598

The above link will take you to a book written by a Navy Seal. I can't describe the hell those Seals went through in that nightmare situation, but I can say if you want some details as to what a DI/Supressed rifle can survive, read it. They should have fired more than 250 rounds through their weapons throughout their mission.

If it's good enough for the Seals, it will be good enough for you.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

Dvdt, I have a 260 AR10 (not a GAP, Armalite upper) and run it suppressed.

As said above, suppressed is dirty as hell, with most of the garbage coming down the barrel rather than through the gas system.

Also be aware that cans increase the back-pressure of a system that already has ample (if not too much) gas. I would recommend an adjustable gas block (JP makes a good one, Armalite has one too) and maybe a PRI gas buster charging handle.

The 260 is a great round for an AR platform, enjoy.

(Get a titanium can, AR10s with heavy barrel contours are heavy as balls.)

 

[bohem]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

I used to run my DI LR-260 suppressed, and I currently run my SAC-built AR15 DI gun suppressed. They both got dirty but it really didn't bother me. I'm a southpaw and even with piston guns the blowback would throw debris in my face, so shooting glasses is a must, even more so with the suppressor attached.

ETA: I found that a dip in ATF for the BCG helped drastically reduce the level of crud build up while shooting both suppressed and unsuppressed.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dvdt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I understand it's going to be dirtier, but I would <span style="text-decoration: underline">imagine</span> I could still get ~250 rnds w/o cleaning ? Anyone have real world experience that says otherwise ?</div></div>

I can't tell you about a precision .260

I can tell you about my work M4. It's your average rack grade rifle with standard gas system (fixed front sight base) and a SAS 5.56 Suppressor.

It has been to several shooting schools and many training days. I have never had a problem with it suppressed or unsuppressed after hundreds of rounds.

HOWEVER, it will nasty up enough that ejecting an un-fired cartridge takes a bit more effort unless I stay on top of lubing it. It will still fire and cycle fine. Clearing it just becomes a little more difficult. Yet another good reason to run a hot line.

 

[MrSwede]

Re: Does a suppressed semi auto DI scare anyone ?



I've got a DPMS LR308 with a can on it.
It's the 24" barrel version, but the barrel is now chopped at 18.5"

A friend of mine has the exact same rifle in the same configuration, except he has a different can on his,
and he has had his gunsmith modify the standard gasblock to an adjustable one. His rifle is way smoother on the recoil, mine is violent in comparison. I would (and I will) get the adjustable gas block if I was you.

Fired about 70 rounds tuesday evening with it from 530-580 yards, and I had one major stoppage due to a round not touching off, and then beeing stuck in the chamber.
Turns out the chamber was reeeal dirty, and I'm at about 200 rounds now of shooting that thing suppressed without cleaning the bore/chamber. It's crazy how filthy everything gets without an adjustable gas block.