Does Bartlein, Kreiger, and Proof carry as much weight in the AR world as they do in precision rifle bolt-action guns?

[LilGucci]

Reading some bolt-action blogs and watching youtube reviews, Kreiger, Bartlein, and Proof Research are pretty big names in the precision rifle bolt-action world, along with Hawk Hill and Benchmark. Do these three names carry the same weight in the AR world, especially with regard to precision and long-range shooting? They are all priced around $600 or more so I can assume you are paying for quality, or are you partially just paying for the name? With match-grade ammo or ammo you reload yourself, do these three giants run with the very best barrels you can possibly get for the AR-15 platform, for precision and accuracy-focused builds?

I'm putting aside WOA, Shilen, Criterion, Lilja, JP, etc. because my question is rather focused on whether these 3 specific giants have made as successful a transition from precision rifle (bolt-action) shooting over into the AR space, especially the AR-15. There is not that much content on Youtube that focuses on these three names in the AR-15 world.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

I know shooters using Kreiger and Bartlein for AR Service Rifles ans Match Rifles. I don't know how many Proof AR barrels are out there.

When things settle down and I have the cash my next AR10 barrel will be a 24 inch 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[DangerRanger]

they carry weight with the AR shooters that shoot precision LR

Not with the average AR blaster/shooter/operator who thinks a criterion core or a larue is the top shelf accuracy threshold

No offense meant. Different people have different interests

 

[Aftermath]

Yes

 

[_Windrider_]

Bartlein is like franks red hot. I put that shit on everything.

 

[Jdfd556]

I'd argue that a lot of people who argue about X barrel being more accurate than Y barrel can't shoot the difference. If you can, the price premium between something like a Noveske / Centurion Stainless vs a Proof / custom CLE/Craddock Krieger or Bartlein becomes easier to stomach. Most shooters would be better served with the "cheaper" Noveske/Centurion and using the money saved to buy good ammo and go practice technique. But to answer your original question, yes- those 3 brands have earned their reputation for quality and accuracy in regards to AR-15s.

 

[padom]

For precision AR's, absolutely. Been shooting custom Bartlein and Kriegers on my precision small and large frame AR's for years...

 

[lennyo3034]

I’ve done very well with kriegers and Bartliens. When I’m asked “what barrel” that is what I recommend but 90% of the time they balk at price as “mid tier” criterions and shilens are a lot cheaper. My response is a couple extra range trips finding the right load on those costs more in ammo than just buying the best from the start.

I have no intention of using anything less on precision ARs moving forward.

 

[DangerRanger]

I do think from my experience white white oak, the average person asking would be fine off with a 250$ woa and a case of 77grain. They are the best “value” I’ve seen

 

[MontanaMan]

I'd argue that a lot of people who argue about X barrel being more accurate than Y barrel can't shoot the difference. If you can, the price premium between something like a Noveske / Centurion Stainless vs a Proof / custom CLE/Craddock Krieger or Bartlein becomes easier to stomach. Most shooters would be better served with the "cheaper" Noveske/Centurion and using the money saved to buy good ammo and go practice technique. But to answer your original question, yes- those 3 brands have earned their reputation for quality and accuracy in regards to AR-15s.

Truth.

MM

 

[bigjake83]

Does Howdy Doody have wooden balls??

 

[bigjake83]

This is from yesterday, I started my first round of load development for a Custom 6.5 Creedmoor 18" Bartlein I put in one of my LaRue OBR's that I'll be releasing a Review/Range Report on here soon.

So basically I shot a 6x5 each group a different load and I still averaged Sub 1/2 MOA... So yeah I can shoot the difference between a Bartlein and a WOA, Shilen, Criterion.

Every rifle in my stable has either a Bartlein, Krieger or Proof barrel even my "Blaster" 16" Recce rifle has a Krieger in it. Why have ANY gun if the accuracy is mediocre?? There's nothing wrong with putting a Single Point Cut Barrel in a hard use rifle, what do you think is in the KAC APR and APC?? A Krieger!

 

[Billiam1211]

Yes absolutely Proof, Bartlein, and Krieger are awesome in gas guns. Yesterday I was actually thinking about posting a 500 round performance review on my Proof barrels for the very reason that there isn’t a ton of content about them for ARs. I have 2 Proof barrels on gas guns that both perform extremely well.

AR10 is setup with a 24-inch Proof stainless barrel w/ +2 gas system, JP lmos bcg, JP SCS, Triggertech Diamond, and a Vortex 5-25x PST Gen II and this rifle shoots small. I want to say that 3/4-1 MOA groups happen on bad shooting days. On range trips, I usually set up a 4"x6" IPSC at 600 yards and have no issues connecting. The only hiccup I had with this barrel is that I had to open up the gas port a tiny bit with a reamer, but after doing that reliability has been 100% and accuracy has always been stellar. I have about 400 rounds down the tube running 140gr ELD-Ms, Hornady Brass, 41.7gr H4350, and #34 primers.

AR15 is set up with 18-inch Proof stainless barrel, Rubber City BCG, Geiselle SD-E, Primary Arms Platinum 1-8x Griffin Mil and I'm still able to shoot in the 0.6s from prone and had no issues going out to 700 yards on 2ish MOA targets. Keep in mind this is a DMR type setup and a different optic wither magnification could probably help shoot smaller. Round count is just over 500 and my accuracy load is 77gr SMK, Lapua brass, 24gr IMR 4064, #41 primers.

If precision is your goal - Proof Research barrels shoot, chances are you won't be disappointed. I regret not trying them out sooner and wasting money on a few BA barrels.

 

[Gustav7]

I do think from my experience white white oak, the average person asking would be fine off with a 250$ woa and a case of 77grain. They are the best “value” I’ve seen

I think this is true, however I do think theres a reason WOA offers their in-house barrels, as well as Bartlein and Krieger. I think they are for sure the best value for the in-house barrels, but I have no doubt someone good enough can benefit from the upgrade to Bartlein/Krieger. As always, I'm sure there are plenty of WOA house barrels that shoot fantastic, but on average, I would bet the B/K barrels out perform.

 

[MontanaMan]

Yet another idiotic Gucci thread.............anyone with 2 weeks on this site would surely know the answer to the silly question asked in the OP.

MM

 

[Merle]

You are most certainly just paying for a name with Kreeger, Bartline, and Prove. Bear Creek Arsenal is where the real accuracy lies. They are probably the best kept secret in the AR game. All of mine are sub half moa with M855!

 

[StaveyIL]

You are most certainly just paying for a name with Kreeger, Bartline, and Prove. Bear Creek Arsenal is where the real accuracy lies. They are probably the best kept secret in the AR game. All of mine are sub half moa with M855!

That’s actual quite funny. Even funnier if you actually believes it.

 

[sinister]

You assume Bartlein and Kreiger got their start in the bolt action - PRS world.

The truth is the majority of the premium cut-rifle barrel makers got their start in Wisconsin, apprenticing or working for Boots Obermyer and Krieger. Their barrels were the standard for benchrest shooters across the country. At least one went to England to work for Geoff Kolbe at Border Barrels.

M14 and AR barrel makers then started profiling cut-rifled blanks for Service Rifle -- and their shooters won.

Military and US Secret Service sniper rifle builders put them into bolt guns since the 1970s. That knowledge spilled-over into civilian precision bolt action rifles (McMillan, Robbie Barkmann, and George Gardner at GA Precision being by-name references).

 

[oldrifleman]

They are equally as good on ARs. I have uppers using Bartleins chambered and prepped by both Craddock and White Oak. I am even having one chambered and fitted to my Anschutz 1727F 22 rimfire action.

 

[rothgyr]

90% of the time they balk at price, as “mid tier” criterions and shilens are a lot cheaper.

I'm diving into getting my Grendel AR setup for PRS, and looking at upgrading my barrel, after being in the bolt gun world for five years. It's pretty sus that most "high end" barrels commonly talked about by the typical AR crowd cost less than even a Preferred Barrel Blanks blank, yet require more work to fit into a barrel extension and drill a gas port. It's all likely CNC chambers and threading, and seeing results from most CNC barrel prefits is less than reassuring. Also, a google image search for "ar gas port lands" shows a lot of sketchy stuff.

Beyond barrel blanks, who's doing the chamber job, timing, crowning, and muzzle threading can really expose some variance. Spending money on a Craddock/CLE is looking more and more worth it, and your point about load development stands true. Compare Johnny's Reloading Bench groups from his Krieger .308 barrel vs his WOA barrel, and it's pretty clear that one requires a lot less load development time.

 

[Beachrider99]

so after hours research on here, i think this might be the right place to ask. I am looking to build a precision upper I want to stay 223/556. I have been in the rimfire PRS game and just want to build a precise 223. Is there any experts on here willing to give advice on best routes to go. I have read so much about different types of receivers and barrels. Feel free to message me.

 

[sinister]

The three brands you mention by name -- Krieger, Bartlein, and Proof -- are all cut-rifled. Cut-rifled barrels tend to be more precise, for longer, than broached, button-rifled, or hammer-forged.

Of the three, the Proof barrels are also pricier due to the proprietary carbon-fiber wrapping process.

Camp Perry shooters tend to change barrels more often than bolt gunners. Part of this is the relatively higher precision standard at 600 (the X- and 10-ring), and the fact National Match and Excellence-in-Competition formats have compulsory rapid-fire strings at 200- and 300-yards. Most shooters will shoot 3,000 - 5,000 rounds (or more) per season, generally equating to a barrel a year.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I wouldn't put proof in the same league as Krieger Barts. They are usually very good, but they aren't as consistent as Krieger and Bartlein.

 

[oldrifleman]

My best has been a WOA precision Service rifle upper with a 7 twist 20” Bartlein, my 20” Craddock is really good as well it also is a 20” 7 twist Bartlein.

 

[81STFACP]

Frank posted this score sheet in another thread before. 3rd match of the 2023 CMP Cup. Frank donated the Bartlein blank, I spun the 20 inch service rifle barrel for a Texas Junior.

She won the match over some of the best in the business.

 

[JR1200W3]

Yet another idiotic Gucci thread.............anyone with 2 weeks on this site would surely know the answer to the silly question asked in the OP.

MM

No shit. Everything he posts is retarded. It's like ARFCOM threw him off a cliff for being retarded and disfigured and he survived and climbed out of the baby body pit to create a SH account. We need a mod to change his username to Ephialties.

 

[RUTGERS95]

bubble says hello

the vast majority of AR owners are not precision guys so NO. lol NO